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Author Topic: (Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies  (Read 216249 times)

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Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1365 on: 20 Sep 2005, 19:43:41 »
Just a quick look in at lunch time:

This all makes sense.  High CPU load causing dumb ai.  I have observed high CPU load causing dumb driving, this is just a further development.  Whatever compromises I make, dumb ai is not an acceptable outcome.    The danger now I suppose is that I over compensate by pulling out too much stuff.  What a bummer.  And I though I just had to stick in a few different voices!

Offline macguba

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1366 on: 20 Sep 2005, 23:38:14 »
I'll do some of the statics.  I'll send you a blank mission with just the right statics:  you can then copy/paste/delete whatever.  

Don't panic though:  this mission really is nearly finished.   I recognise the signs from Un-Impossible.  There is a bit of a final heave required of course, more than you think, but in the immortal words of one of my teachers "it's very nearly very good."
Plenty of reviewed ArmA missions for you to play

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1367 on: 21 Sep 2005, 00:42:06 »
Well there is a tonne of stuff at the airbase that will need to come out.  Barriers to prevent the use of the runways, dead aircraft, that sort of thing.  Lots of stuff in the civi huts, the prison at Chapoi - all can be seriously trimmed down.  The problem was I convinced myself that statics did nothing and so was less careful than I had previously been with them.  I think the problems is not too great - just a pain.

The real killer though is the concentration of armour/vehicles.  There are some empties around that could be thinned out.  I could loose a jeep from each of the four jeep patrols and one tank from each side's three tank guard unit.  But that is only two jeeps and two tanks. I don't want to touch the stationary armour in each base or the amroured groups that attack each base.  So the only other thing I could lose is one of the tank + APC + infantry groups from each side.  Each side currently has two of these groups.  They are so difficult to deal with I would really not want to lose any.


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Is the damaged repair truck at Trinite a mistake? A catch 22 that to repair a repair truck we need a repair truck?
No mistake.  In fact it is not trivial getting a truck to be in that state of disrepair.  In deed to get the repair truck, you need a repair truck, plus a fuel truck - but you don't know that yet ;D  I wanted to have some static repair and healing facilities at LaT.  It gives the player yet one more dilemma about starting the war as these will become unusable for a while after the war starts.

Quote
"it's very nearly very good."
;D
It's funny what we remember from our teachers.  The one thing I remember from one of my maths teachers is:
"Remember boy: moderation in all things - including moderation"  I have used that as an excuse for all sorts of things over the years!

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MacGuba's voice acting has enriched the game further.
Even better.  He wrote his own words.

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3000 sandbags alone on an island appear to create no lag because the engine can handle the visuals - after all they don't move.  However it is putting hidden load on other areas, such as AI.
I actually tested it with 30,000 and gave up trying to create lag, I just couldn't - but I didn't test for ai dumbness or for driving skills.  It all starts to fall into a logical pattern

« Last Edit: 21 Sep 2005, 00:55:12 by THobson »

Offline macguba

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1368 on: 21 Sep 2005, 01:48:53 »
Attached is a blank mission with just statics remaining.   I've removed about 125 obects, and detailed the removal in a text file.     There's no doubt you could lose a few dozen more without really having much impact on the mission, and if you start redrawing bases more still.

I've put in the odd replacement or moved things but don't copy and paste from this demo without checking on the ground - I haven't done it accurately since I only you can decide what you want.    You may in fact find the whole thing a waste of time, but I would commend to you a few points in particular

- 2 sandbags is enough for an M2

- see what I did at Larche and Arudy:  looks better and half the objects

- an intermittant line actually has a greater visual impact than a solid one, and obviously only half the objects.    Sandbags on occasion, and barracks.    

- Be suggestive not descriptive


Keep four jeeps in the mossie patrol - its impressive and scary.   Lose the sniper groups around the bases - you've gone to so much trouble to create a realistic working island and then spoil it with stupid traps a la Un-Impossible.

125 objects is enough to have an impact, particularly if you can tweak something else as well.  I don't think you'll have to reduce groups.   Try and reduce object, vehicle and weapon types.
« Last Edit: 21 Sep 2005, 01:55:49 by macguba »
Plenty of reviewed ArmA missions for you to play

SpikeTennyson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1369 on: 21 Sep 2005, 10:56:12 »
With some trepidation in the company of so many advanced OFP players and editors; here is a progress report on my first foray into this mission.

Some background:
I played the OFP campaigns enthusiastically, to the exclusion of all social life when they were first released; and still use OFP as a benchmark for a game which provides freedom of action. The only other game which competes in this regard is Grand Theft Auto; but that is not quite the same genre!
Having played the campaigns and a couple of the missions I moved on to other games; so playing this mission is my first OFP experience for some time; maybe this is a good thing as it puts me in a similar position as the player character in the game; lacking in confidence as to the mechanics of warfare and having to command a squad of more experienced soldiers.

My PC is is Intel 2.8, Radeon 9800 with 1GB of RAM. Benchmark is 5050

Introduction
Having recovered from the shock of hearing THobson's familiar voice (!), I found the intro informative and it dragged me straight into the mission. So much so that I found the statement about "Any resemblance to any person living or dead..." etc. a dsitraction and would suggest this be removed; or if it is thought to be required, stick it at the start.

At Vigny I approached the occupied house from the south and shot one of the loons. The other came running out of the south door. Not clear how he managed this given the barbed wire in front of the door.
Found the whole Vigny experience to be very atmospheric, especially the comments by my character which reinforces the feeling that this is not a hardened soldier but an ordinary guy thrust into an unpleasant situation. Gathered the weaponry from the fallen and started out of the town just as a patrol was heading in. Decided against taking them on and headed for the mountains.

Met the first group of civis and headed for the second, but decided to take a look at Dourdan on the way. I recall unhappy experiences with OFP squads in the past when approaching areas where the enemy location is unclear; so I decided to check out Dourdan alone.
Left my squad next to the truck behind some trees with strict instructions not to move or open fire on anyone, and crawled towards Dourdan from the NW. Used the hunting rifle to take out a couple of guys and then watched what happened. Much running around ensued but they did not know which bush I was in so nobody came near. Crawled down to the west side of the road and got a few more. At this point a convoy arrived and a load of loons appeared sweeping up the road and on the other side. I assumed I was done for but they did not find me; and they then climbed into an APC which seemed to be part of the convoy and headed off up the road. I could see more loons across the other side of the road so crawled across to the east side and took down  some more. Could see a man lying in the road with what looked like a LAW (turned out to be an AA), so crawled across and got that and went back to the west side; at which point I spotted about 6 loons heading over the fields towards me. There was a dead body next to me with a machine gun so I took that and mowed them down before taking back my hunting rifle.
It was round about this time that things got hot. My team was reporting jeeps on the East-West road, and tanks were arriving; presumably looking for me. I ordered the team back in the truck and did a sprint across an open field back to the truck. As we drove away a tank shell landed real close.
Dourdan was an intense experience and really made me feel I was in a very active (and dangerous) environment.
We then went to the 2nd and then the 3rd bunch of civis. The wolf sounds were very scary (made my kitten jump off my lap too!).
Then to Houdan where it was fairly easy to spot where the contact would be made, the only building that did not look half destroyed. When I called my new team member back into the hut to pick up the weapon on the floor, he walked through the wall. Assume this is an OFP engine problem.
I decided to stay away from the main centres until we had a good stash of weapons so headed down to La Port to check it out. Ran into a road block and had to re-load, after which it was easy to take them out with the hunting rifle and gather their weapons.
One thing I noticed was that most of the weapons I pick up appear to have no ammo. But when I subsequently take the weapon from the truck it has more ammo than it had previously. This is just an impression, will try and check as I continue through the game.
Down to La Port where I left the team in the truck and took out the loons with the hunting rifle (I enjoy sniping!). Picked up the weapons and then picked off another patrol coming in from the north.
Across to Cancon next which seemed to offer little other than a few loons. Got most of them but one was on the loose and I decided to just leave rather than hunt him down; may re-visit later.
Headed north for the fuel dump west of Chapoi and hid the truck in the forest while me and the squad fanned out across field. We took out a few loons, but then a tank and other armour turned up and we ran back to the truck and head west. Caught another patrol on the road and took them out (yes, the hunting rifle again) before the tank could be seen in the distance and we  went north to Sainte Marie which looks most inhospitable!
It is now around 0930 in game time. I feel that the required strategy is to start a war between the two sides but I am not sure how to do that. Will try weakening the south and interrupting the convoys and will see what happens. I worry about the fuel for the truck (maybe we will have to start walking soon!), our limited ammunition, and the size of the armies we are up against. I feel like I am on a living island with an enemy that is realistically responsive to my actions.
I went to bed thinking about the mission and woke up thinking about it too! A sign that I am involved! Well done THobson!
Not sure if any of the above is useful in the context of beta testing; but wanted to record my experience to date.
Now, shall I do some household chores or head back to Malden.......?

Offline Trapper

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1370 on: 21 Sep 2005, 15:35:24 »
You should add a warning about using the custom rain (by wheres my rabbit) included the Llaumax Skypack addon. Maybe some players won't even remember that they are using it.

It can make the first minutes so frustrating, that they probably give up on playing the whole mission.
I have attached a picture, so you can see the difference for yourself.
Especially look how hard it is to see the bushes in the rain. It's the same with enemys.
« Last Edit: 21 Sep 2005, 15:37:22 by Trapper »

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1371 on: 22 Sep 2005, 02:15:24 »
@Trapper -> Thob

I would redo your readme Thob to concentrate a little less on ECP and make a more generalised statement that the mission has not been tested for these mods and the player is reminded to turn them off if she encouters difficutties. Such as FlashFX such as ECP such as Skypack A sort of generic statement that you can't take responsibility for any of them and caveat emptor.

@Spike

for a 9:30 game time you're playing wonderfully well. The issue isn't to complete it fast, you can't, but to explore as much as possible as soon as possible to form an opinion on what you're up against.

>and then they all got back in.

often, they dont :D

>a shell landed next to me

often, it doesn't :D

this mission is dynamic as hell, you will never repeat the above same exact sequence ever again. No matter how often you reload. Merest twitch of the mouse causes the loons NOT to 'get back in'.

>starting war

Thob, I think you should introduce a voiceover somewhere by the team that 'they think' attacking convoys is the answer. Perhaps on first spot of them, via sergie or the medic.

@MacGuba

>reduced sandbags

I've gone into the editor and removed every single one of them, every one, Not concerned the eye candy is now messy, am now testing to see if this ai loon buisiness is real.

@Thob, Chapoi doesn't need (imHo) neatly ordered sandbags, they are supposed to be half built, ill fitting, and a mess.

I also think you have two separate issues, even tho there's a logical connection between them. The engine is working overtime in the background, AND, there's a convergence issue of too much in the same place at same time. This has *always* been the Larche T3 corridor and in V1.30 you avoided it because your waypoints for the vehicles (eg) started elsewhere or were timed differently so that the convergence didn't happen *there*. It's alchemy, not science.
Just say no to bugz

SpikeTennyson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1372 on: 22 Sep 2005, 04:21:52 »
@Mikero
Glad to read a hint that attacking convoys is the way to go; because that is what I did next. Destroyed a complete convoy, plus a BMP that came along to check things out; am now being chased across country by a tank; hoping it won't discover the truck parked in nearby woods which is now low on fuel. Intense!

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1373 on: 22 Sep 2005, 04:35:50 »
Zilch sandbags

Because of the dynamic, random nature of this mission the following is difficult to determine with certainty. However, these things did happen that haven't happened before on the early parts of v1.31

I used my jeep as a weapon, damaging it somewhat.

There was no overall impression of more (or less) alertness to the loons around Vigny nor LaP.

1)
The M2 jeeps came sweeping in and *seemed* to make a much better job of passing thru Lap. They came so quickly, that I didn't have time to employ my usual tactic of creating roadblocks with the spare jeeps. So, I can't 'tell' if the ai was negotiating, or would have negotiated better. Previous missions, these guys got stuck in/around buildings when I did this. The fact that they arrived so quickly might be the indicator.

2) I was scrunched by a chopper. This, has *never* occured before. It took my police jeep out at hut of dead resistance people (near 1st civils). This has *never* happened any mission and I have always assumed the chopper was populated with civilian pilots because of it.

3) I avoided the chopper but, a god damn T80 came over the road and crushed me. Only time this has occurred before as far as I can recall, was v1.30 where it appeared with friends in LaP very early in game (I took much longer in LaP most mission plays, this time I made a run for the lodge and met this 'responsive' T80 up the road.) I have also encountered it here with friends other versions. (1st civil area). The T80 was responsive this time and fired at me. Unlike other times (AS FAR AS I CAN RECALL). I have, most times, caught it sleeping at the BUS road block in other versions. A rocket or two wake it up normally.

4) Having avoided the metal bone crusher with a now deeply damaged Police Jeep. I encountered a 7 or 9 man squad running up north road- post 1st civils. They were wide awake but naturally made no attempt to shoot Police Jeep. I ran most over, Jeep is finished, and taking the rest of them out wasn't pleasant.

I mention this piece because I didn;t encounter these people before. I have encountered patrols on this road different versions, but not like this. They have in past been mincing towards LaP. this lot were doing what I wanted them to, ambush me near the (dead) resistance hut.

Naturally and of course, I am tempted to find positives, as if i've dramatically changed something, but everything is indicating much faster ai movement in the Lap <-> 1st civil corridor. Things, waypoints, people, coming in quicker. That chopper has shocked me. The immediate effect on me is that this is now as terrifying as the 1st time I ever played it.

PS: I dont mean 1st civils as an objective, only a zone definition.
Just say no to bugz

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1374 on: 22 Sep 2005, 12:00:04 »
Just got back home after evacuating in the face of hurricane Rita.  I see a lot has been happeneing here.  I will read and digest it all shortly - just saying I am now back.

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1375 on: 22 Sep 2005, 13:04:19 »
Mikero:
Quote
Thob, I think you should introduce a voiceover somewhere by the team that 'they think' attacking convoys is the answer. Perhaps on first spot of them, via sergie or the medic.
This is a yes but.  There are many ways to complete the mission and I want to avoid pointing everyone in the same direction.  When I was first writing this I imagined that maybe a couple of people would finish it but no one would play it twice.  I put some extensive hints in the first version as a result.  Realising that there are people with the energy to play it more than once what I now want is for players who have finished to think things like:  "I wonder if I really should have shot that Russian soldier in that hut?", "What if I had concentrated on only one side instead of wearing them both down at the same time, would the strong one eventually attack the weak one?", "Should I really have killed that convoy so early on?  What was it carrying?  Where was it carrying it to?  Could it have been useful to me?"  The last time I played the whole way through I killed the three loons at Vigny at around 06:30 ish.  The next time I killed a loon was around midday, with some mines, and I had been busy all that time - with hindsight I had spent longer than I needed to have done but the point is everyone can make their own mission with this.  What Spike has done is perfectly reasonable.  Explore a bit then get stuck in.  There are several things I am dieing to ask him - but the questions would just give too much away.

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I was scrunched by a chopper.
This is intriguing, for the reasons you mention.  It seems some changes have come about simply by taking out some static objects.

You comment about there being two issues I think is bang on the nail.  Reduce statics to liven up the ai, but do something about the convergence.  This last one is the challenge, without crippling the mission if played in a different way.

alchemy not science - that is where it gets difficult.

macguba:
Thanks for the file, I will look at it closely.  Now I have the view that static object may not be causing lag, but they are generating some overhead activity I certainly can be much less liberal in their use.

Spike:
As they say that is impressive performance by 09:30.  So you have had a talk with Viktor?  To help me picture it, where was the convoy when you took it down? did any jeeps interfere with the process?

The magazine issue:  I thought I had that dealt with.  If a dead loon has only one magazine then that magazine is in his weapon.  To get it you have to take the weapon and either drop the mag or put the weapon in a vehicle.  Putting the weapon in a vehicle also has the effect of removing the mag from the weapon so you can take individual mags from the vehicle.  Also if you take a weapon from a vehicle it will give you as many mags as it has up to the limit of the number of spare carrying slots you have. I will need to look at this.  I though I had it so that most dead loons woul have two mags allowing you to pick one up easily.
« Last Edit: 22 Sep 2005, 13:04:33 by THobson »

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1376 on: 22 Sep 2005, 16:45:58 »
A few more points having re-read the recent posts again:

The snipers were not meant to be a trap.  I thought I had them set out in a realistic way to cover the base.

There is a change I am wondering if I should make based on MrN and Spike's experience.  The situation is this.  Reorganise with Sergei in the team and you know what happens.  If you do nothing about it the team members will keep reminding you until you do - but only if Sergei told you first.  I plan to change it so that if Sergei is killed before he tells you, you still get the reminders from your team mates.  This could lead to the occasional illogicality of someone who has never met Sergei telling you about the conversation they had.  Any thoughts.

The ‘This is fiction…' message.  Mikero I believe you quite liked that.  Any comments about moving it to replace the apology to Ludwig van Beethoven?


« Last Edit: 22 Sep 2005, 19:03:34 by THobson »

SpikeTennyson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1377 on: 22 Sep 2005, 18:33:42 »
The adventure continues......
We left our intrepid band near Sainte Marie and of course muggins had to go and check it out. That didn't last long! Sainte Marie has a blue flag on it on the map view, not sure what this means. I do wonder if, given that it appears to be heavily mined, whether there is a store of mines there. Will have to go back and check.
Decided that the best course of action to upset the two sides would be to make an attack on a convoy and we headed north east to the forest south of Houdan. On the way I was told that we were low on fuel, so walking is in the offing. Parked in the trees at the south of the forest and made our way onto a convenient ridge looking over the road. Two of us with LAWs and the rest with various small arms.
Along came a convoy of 5 vehicles which was duly despatched (after a couple of re-loads). I hoped that one of the trucks might be usable and full of fuel (no go) and the only goodies I could find was a LAW. Lost a man during the attack (the man from the hut in Houdan).
While pondering our next move, down the hill came a tank and a BMP. Stuck a LAW in the BMP and then ran like hell with the tank coming up the hill in pursuit. We ended up on the south of the valley and were making our way back north to the trees and the truck when a squad of loons came from the north next to the forest. Extended firefight whilst I waited nervously for the tank to arrive from its climb up the mountain. Eventually we cleared the loons and headed for the trees. As soon as we arrived another squad coming from the south appeared on the far mountain.... We lay still and waited for around ten minutes before they wandered off and I thought we were finally clear to leave; then another damn squad arrived from the south, too close to ignore. Luckily they were easy to dispose of, because the tank finally arrived in view and we ran for the truck and headed off through the trees.
Another intense experience, suitable scenario for a movie!
We headed for the forest to the west and hid in the NW corner. I had messages from the medic, who I had left at the lodge after he had accompanied the civis, that he had spotted a soldier. Then he was dead. A blow; especially as I am injured from the convoy attack.
Decided to leave the squad and the truck in the forest and went on foot to check out Arudy. Saw three loons who were despatched with the hunting rifle and I stole the truck (I am basically lazy).
It was only at this point that I noticed that La Trinite does not have an arrow next to it on the map (duh!) which made it an intriguing location for a next visit. Drove into the town expecting resistance but it was empty; although there were sounds of battle close by (encouraging, maybe the war has started).
Found the hut with loads of supplies, if only I had come here first! And the two flags outside presumably means that this was a meeting place for convoy trade. Unfortunately my stolen truck could not carry arms, but I recalled that there was a truck in Dourdan when I visited so decided to go and see if I could steal it.
A real surprise coming back into Dourdan! A barrier across the road which was not there before, dead bodies everywhere and smoke and the sound of gunfire on the south side of the town. Spotted a couple of loons but they were not interested in me, which was refreshing!
Took the truck, even though it was not suitable and decided to go back to get my squad and then go back to La Trinite. After a couple of minutes the fuel ran out so now I am walking back to them.
My assumption at this point is that North is attacking South and has taken Dourdan; hopefully initiated by my convoy destruction. The North's flag at La Trinite and Dourdan is the first sighting I have had, but now explains the red flags at other locations and as carried by the squads we have met (a great touch THobson). I agree with THobson that the convoy attack idea should not be suggested, suspect there are other ways of making war happen (making one side much weaker than the other?).
Once I have my squad back together and tooled up at La Trinite then maybe our next step is to follow the North down to Chapoi and hopefully benefit from the conflict there to get fuel and transport and to free the hostages. However, expect this plan will not be as straight forward as it sounds!

@THobson
Which one is Viktor? I can never remember names! Can't remember who is Sergei either! My conversations have been in Vigny, civi locations, Houdan and the concentration camp. I am probably not a good tester as I get too enthusiastic and engaged and just want to get on with the mission and see what happens next! But as it is nearly midnight that will have to wait until tomorrow.

I am remain in awe of this mission.

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1378 on: 22 Sep 2005, 19:10:26 »
Mac:
I have looked at the static depleted version.  Really very helpful thanks.  A lot of the stuff I put in from the last version goes, plus a lot more besides.  A few observations:

I had forgotten about this until I saw the Vigny list, but at one time I even had a loo in the back room.  That went sometime ago.

You asked about the radio in Chapoi.  I put that in when I put in the H, it is the next nearest building and I thought that could be the chopper ground control.  If it wasn't obvious it will go.

I like the small shed for the M2 gun, a lot of ‘object' for just one object

Bunk- beds in the prison.  Most players will probably not even visit the place, but I wanted those that do to find something resembling a prison.

I like the Arudy ‘line' Vigny feels a bit exposed - I will look further at that.

The false objects.  I had wondered if an object on the map that has condition of presence set to false would have any impact.  I supposed not, but I will get rid of them all before the final is released.  Basically in the past I have spent a lot of time re-doing stuff I had previously done and deleted then changed my mind and wanted back so I now just disable it or make the object condition false.

Le Port camp.  If I lose the middle hut I need to redo some of the move etc. instructions and camera angles in the cutscene.  I will see how my energy levels are when I have done all the other stuff.

Barracks.  This was quite an eye opener.  I have a solid bank of barracks and you take out every second one, with minimal reduction in the visual effect.

You mention a few times about the desire of not introducing new models (handguns/aircraft/M113 wreck).  What is the background to this, especially the statics?  I have no knowledge of how statics are treated, so my mental model is very rudimentary.  I had thought the only thing likely to be going on with statics is collision detection.

Thanks again some really helpful stuff.

Spike:
Quote
Sainte Marie has a blue flag on it on the map view, not sure what this means
Me neither.  It sounds like a bug, do you have a screen shot?  In the editor it certainly has a blue flag on it because that is the symbol for a trigger, but it should not be visible in the game.

Quote
Which one is Viktor? I can never remember names! Can't remember who is Sergei either!
Viktor is the medic in the concentration camp.  Sergei is the Russian from Houdan.

Quote
I am probably not a good tester as I get too enthusiastic and engaged and just want to get on with the mission and see what happens next!
You are doing great as a player and as a tester.  

The cutscenes do contain some useful information - When you meet Sergei at Houdan he tells you the armies trade at La Trinite;  that the choppers are looking for one side to become weak; Viktor stays in the camp because you already have a medic, etc.

I thought that there might be a problem developing when you killed the convoy where you did, but it all worked fine in the end.  

As a self confessed loner, I take it you have made no attempts to reorder your team to put them in more effective positions?


« Last Edit: 22 Sep 2005, 19:10:52 by THobson »

Offline macguba

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1379 on: 22 Sep 2005, 23:28:00 »
Quote
You mention a few times about the desire of not introducing new models (handguns/aircraft/M113 wreck).  What is the background to this, especially the statics?
I first encountered this when somebody quoted to me the example of BMP and BMP2.   When you have them both in the mission the game has to load both models, movement characteristics, weapons and so on.   It then has to carry these details throughout the mission.     The more details (=the more models) the more the comp has to do, with predicable consequences.   Same goes for weapons.

With statics, the effect is obviously going to be less.  (If indeed there is an effect at all.)     I did some testing with statics in Un-Impossible and my impression was very clearly that 10 different statics will slow the game more than 10 the same.   At one stage I had a very large number of statics, of very diverse types.  (There may even have been a stage when I was attempting to use them all.)    The mission suffered from intolerable lag.   The mission ran slower with all the units and triggers deleted than it did with all the statics deleted.      I then halved the number of triggers (which helped a little) and more than halved the number of statics with a reduction in number of types.  This helped things considerably.

I am fascinated by mikero's report that removing all the sandbags seems to have created a brand new mission.   This is what I would have expected, except that the consequence seems to have been much more dramatic than I would have predicted.  

I don't know about false objects but I would expect that the game would load them, then remove them at the last minute.    I did a lot of complex experiments with condition of presence for Regina Proeliorum, and failed to confuse the game:  everything seems to exist until the last possible millisecond.   I'm not an expert on the game engine so I could be wrong though.

Quote
I have a solid bank of barracks and you take out every second one, with minimal reduction in the visual effect.
In fact, if you had enough to start with, you could remove 2 out of 3 with no material effect on the look.   And once you start doing things like putting them at right angles to each other ...

I didn't remove any M2s but I suggest you do.  There are an awful lot.

Don't bother removing anything that has knock on effects.   What you're looking for here is volume of removals.   Far better to spend the time on stripping down somewhere else rather than redoing a whole cutscene to lose just one object.

I suggest that, as an experiment, you delete virtually all statics and play the game through (cheats on obviously) and see if you get hit by lagdemons.   My bet is that you won't, not unless you meet 5 vehicle groups at once.     If removing many statics makes the game materially more difficult, you will be able to remove some units as well.  Virtuous circle time.

But there is no question that it is all alchemy.


I'd just remove the "this is fiction" title completely.   You've just spent the whole intro trying to persuade us that something is real, so that we can suspend our disbelief, and then suddenly you baldly tell us its not real.   Doesn't work.   Everything - every last title, every tiny detail - should contribute to the atmosphere.  If it doesn't, remove it.   Comments like this (and Beethoven) are for the readme, where you are trying to deconstruct the atmosphere anyway.

Similarly with Sergei and the reminders.  Keep it real and logical:  you should only get reminders if you have had the story.   It's only a wild goose chase anyway, its not critical to the mission.

Ditto the snipers.  Yes they are covering the bases beautifully, but why are they there in the first place?   "Quick!  We're, err, not under attack!   What to do, what to do ... Yes!  Quick!  Send some snipers out to take ideal positions for covering the base.     What?  What?  Facing outward?   Don't be a damn fool,  nobody is attacking us, why would they face outwards?"


Speaking as a mission reviewer, very long time beta tester and MEC judge, the first impression of a mission really is formed with the opening elements:  download, readme, Overview, Intro and Briefing.     By the time you click "Continue" in the Briefing you know to within a mark and half what the result is going to be.   By 2 minutes into the mission you know to within a mark.   Occasionally it's not like that of course, sometimes a mission can surprise you either way, but that is the general rule.    So lets look at these important bits again ...


Download

Include as jpgs the overview shot, a tall narrow picture that will go on the mission page in the mission depot, and a shot that placebo can use in Flashnews.

The readme should say near the top that the mission is designed for Vets and there are no waypoints in Cadet mode.




Overview

- Put Thobson in bold/blue <b>like this.</b>   Consider "Mission by THobson" or something.  (All in bold obviously.)   Consider making it right justified as well.


Intro

- Check the line breaks \n in the text:  make sure that when the text is on two lines it looks good.  Don't have a second line of just one word.

- Also check the punctuation, a couple of commas need to be reorganised.

- The text that is spoken dialogue should be in a different colour from that of the silent narrator.

- The penultimate line should be " ... my brother Nikolai ... your uncle is a clever man ..."  which is better than having brother and uncle the current way round.

- If you want more time in the Intro, copy the first and/or second section of music and repeat it immediately after it first appears.  Nobody will notice or care.

- Definitely remove the "fiction" thing.


Briefing

- Plan.   Personally I don't like this small text.  It looks ... mean, and makes the page very empty.   You know there are going to be hidden objectives.  Although I'm a strong believer in getting all the objectives onto the first page, for that very reason I'm an equally strong believer in ensuring that hidden objectives spill onto the second page.

Suggest amending the text to something more like this:-

What a horrible night!  That decrepit excuse for a boat only just made it around the Cape.    She'll be safe here though, hidden from sea and soldiers - Vigny Fjord is the best anchorage for miles.    And we're very close to <a link>Vigny,</a> even if it is a <a link>steep climb.</a>

I must find my Uncle.   I must find < a link> my Uncle</a> before <a link to background> something else goes wrong.</a>


  • <a link to Vigny>Find</a> Uncle Nikolai!



- Notes.   "stay here" is not consistent with the Plan.   Change to "cannot survive without food or shelter..."


- Uncle Nikolai

We have not seen my uncle or his family for several years.   His daughter must be grown up by now.    When we fled we managed to bring some photos, including this one of him....   No doubt he'll be a little greyer.    I wonder if they still have that lodge in the mountains?


- Background

It all started with a small thing, though we did not see it as small at the time.It all started with our Chief of Police - Commander Leon Stamenov.   He always had grand ambitions. He was a good "bad cop", policeman, but too ruthless and ambitious. He let nothing stand in his way as he rose through the ranks to become the most senior, and most feared, police officer on the island. Malden. But it seems that was not enough for him.  He did not just want to run was not satisfied with the police force; he wanted to run the whole island.

One by one members of the ruling government (and the oppostion) were disgraced, placed under arrest arrested, or simply 'disappeared'. If it were not for two things, nothing else would have happened, Malden would have was set to become a police dictatorship and, were it not for an accident of geography, the rest of the world would not have noticed.

Unfortunately, as it turned out, oil reserves had just been discovered off the coast of Malden, and the island was at a strategic location controlling the sea access to one of the Soviet Union's main satellite states.  

Malden, unfortunately, has a strategic location.   It effectively controls the sea lanes to one of the greatest non-aligned states.  Whatever happened on Malden was of great interest to Washington and Moscow.

Our government had successfully maintained an uneasy, but pragmatic, relationship with the Soviet Union. but However, Stamenov was an anathema to them. completely beyond their control.   "In support of freedom and in solidarity with our comrades and the legitimate government of Malden" and all that other bullshit, the Soviet Union invaded.  However, they fatally underestimated both the size difficulty of the task and the reaction of the rest of the world.

The people of Malden have a hard life.  it has made them  We are tough and independent. Though not supporting Few supported Stamenov - we were afraid of him - but nobody was prepared to tolerate they were not going to have a foreign army on their our soil.  We have no standing army, but a resistance movement quickly developed from the militia.

For their part the US, following the doctrine of ‘my enemy's enemy is my friend' that got them embroiled in Vietnam, Nicaragua, Ecuador and elsewhere, began sending ‘advisors' to support Stamenov. A rapid escalation followed, first on Malden and then across the globe. The world was on a knife edge.

Thinking he was under attack, an incompetent, or perhaps simply a frightened, US naval captain in Soviet waters west of Sakhalin brought down a civilian North Korean airliner. on the fringes of Soviet territorial waters shot down a civilian Soviet airliner.    Shortly afterwards, his task group was obliterated by a naval tactical nuclear weapon.    Then came reports of thermonuclear detonations in Siberia ... then Washington and Moscow: then London ... then Beijing.

Then ... silence... nothing ...

No ships.  No aeroplanes.  No radio.   No TV.   Nothing.   Nothing at all.

With no contact from the outside and with dwindling food supplies on the island discipline in both armies rapidly broke down. Many officers were shot and the soldiers became an undisciplined rabble. Nationality became irrelevant, US and Soviet soldiers combined where they stood to defend food supplies from other ragged bands of hungry soldiers. Local alliances were formed and eventually two dominant groups emerged.

One of these groups is led by a ruthless ex-Spetz Natz officer by the name of Vladimir Ilich Andropov.  The other, by none other than that evil bastard Stamenov, our one time Chief of Police.

Andropov and Stamenov fought for a while but eventually it became clear that their forces were too well matched and an armed truce was established. The resistance movement was ruthlessly put down by both sides and is now all but destroyed.



- Map.  I know its another marker, but I feel the need of one saying "Vigny Fjord".  Seems odd to mark the steep hill but not the fjord.   The Vigny marker should be about 10m SW of its current location, so that it lines up nicely with the word "Vigny".


Mission start

Dialogue - remove the "low spec PC?" text.   Otherwise its all very good.

Move the boat and the player about 10m to the west - you'd really struggle to get the boat into that position.   Start the player facing SE:   it is actually the direction he should go (since its much easier to go up the hill in zig zags) and will make the initial view more comprehensible and attractive.

Also, start the player another 5m up the hill.  It's still obvious he has just got out of the boat, should he turn round to look, but makes it equally obvious that you are not supposed to get back in it and moreover it will be a chore to do.  At present when you turn round you get the action menu items which will lead some people into temptation.

If you can dig out the thunder sound from the depths of the game, have a thunderclap a few seconds into the mission.   Help set the atmosphere.
 


@SpikeTennyson I thought that was a helpful and fun story.   I know how much the bit about the magically appearing gate at Dourdan will have pleased THobson.
« Last Edit: 23 Sep 2005, 01:34:15 by macguba »
Plenty of reviewed ArmA missions for you to play