(Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies

[THobson]

Lean Bear:

Basically, after reordering my squad one time, I noticed that when we stopped running (while in formation). Evryone stopped and then turned around to face the opposite way to the direction we were just runing into

I have had some problems with the reorder process, but no one has mentioned this.  The problems I have had involved them running off to get into a vehicle during the reorder activity.  I have changed the way it works to avoid that happening.  I cannot explain the problem you have found.  What happens if you tell them to watch some direction?

Fog: I think the tanks have radar or some such.  I am afraid that is the way OFP is.  I find it far too dangerous to be in a vehicle if there is any armour around, or any LAW/RPG/AT/AA guys.  In fact I am very careful about using vehicles.  In earlier versions there were a lot of complaints about soldiers, particularly snipers, doing something similar.  It seems the problem is a result of the rain rather the fog.  I do cut down on both rain and fog later in the mission.

Other than that it was a great couple hour's gaming

Glad you enjoyed it.  The fog and rain might just have started to lift by then.  I don't think many people have completed the mission in significantly less than 10 mission hours.  It usually takes me into the upper teens of mission hours to finish - but I am getting old and slow.  So there is a fair way to go yet.

As to video setting.  I set my viewing distance to 1400 years ago and have not touched it since.

Mikero:
Okay I am now rar capable.  Interesting file you attached, thanks.  Nice idea.  A couple of potential issues I could see. 1) I am not sure that OFP benchmark is a reliable indicator of performance; 2) The script sets the player's terrain detail.  I think that would be fine for missions that don't last very long, but for a mission that has to survive multiple saves and restores there is  problem.  I previously had a script in the mission so that whatever the player's terrain detail setting, it was reset to normal.  (If the mission is not played at the normal setting strange things happen to the ruin at the lodge).  The problem here is that the script couldn't change the underlying user setting, so every save and restore seemed to generate a cumulative vertical displacement  of objects on the map.  There were trucks completely underground, buildings several feet above ground. etc.  I have had to resort simply to telling the player what their setting should be.  But one thing it helped bring home to me was the extent to which people have been writing stuff for OFP for years.

[macguba]

Your loons tending to face backwards is a feature of the game engine, it's nothing in particular to do with this script.

Benchmark is not a reliable indicator of performance.   When I got a new motherboard and new chip my benchmark dropped from 5660 to 3000.   Loading times went up slightly, but frame rates in the game improved slightly.    Overall I would say performance was marginally better.  

[Mikero]

>tanks and mist

as far as I am concerned, vehicles that have infra red can indeed 'see' you at much further distances, and indeed i have used IR to my advantage on some missions, particularly Shilka vs Aircraft. I just assume tanks do similar to what I would do and no longer consider it 'unfair'. Indeed apart from moral outrage on my part, I made mistakes of driving trucks around cliff edges and was blasted back to Vigny from Larche when I did. It made me laugh after I'd recovered from the shock.

The 'mist' issue has definately gone away. For the relatively short time rain now causes unfairness in this game, it's not significant. You're nowhere near the murderous zones of chapoi/airport where it would be. Any complaints about it remain valid, they don't like it, but it's no longer a bug as such.

>benchmarks.

at best for me they are just relative indications of whether you're playing on a 386 or a 4gigahertz latest and greatest. They suggest other things like adequate memory and perhpas a decent (or otherwise) video card. But MacGuba's comments (which he's mentioned before) make even that unreliable. As far as whether a benchmark actually means something specific, the jury is in, it's a definite no but may have held some significance 5 years ago when game first appeared.

For my money, I'd opt for Kegety's frame counter (fps).

[Dagon]

Oh yeah, a tip for anyone finding that climb up the hill at the start annoying....

If you sprint-strafe SIDEWAYS up the hill, you will walk up at a normal speed rather than on your guts, which makes the start over twice as fast.

[THobson]

As far as whether a benchmark actually means something specific, the jury is in, it's a definite no but may have held some significance 5 years ago when game first appeared.

I think that's the point.  It may have been appropriate some time ago, but appears not to be now.  I notice for instance that the script maxed out at a benchmark of 4000, but there were lots of ranges below that.

If you sprint-strafe SIDEWAYS up the hill, you will walk up at a normal speed rather than on your guts, which makes the start over twice as fast.

It is incredible what you all find.

[LukieTee]

This is one sweet mission, ive come back after a long rest from OFP with now ECP and some other features, One thing i must ask are you going to make this Multiplayer at all, i thnk the family going to find uncle Nikoli would be very intresting, Just a thought.

over and out
LukieTee

[THobson]

I appreciate your comments.  

Multi-player - holy moley, I'd like to get the single player finished first.

I think the concept of a fully operational island, but with less story, would be a great topic for a multiplayer mission.  You would need to make sure that the people you played with all had the same stamina levels though.  It would be a long one.  

[LukieTee]

Dear lord yes they do, Anyone heard of the 6th sense Community. Hardcore OFP gamers up for ultimate realism and team work this would be a beautifull mission for our specials, we have had 5 hour runs reguarly, and im sure we could organise it, good luck with the rest of the map, you are an exceotionaly talented Mission Maker, hey this may be the very worthless opinion of a 15 yr old but in my eyes this project is a work of art. Why the hell havent Codemasters offered you a Job.

Deep Respect
LukieTee Also Known as "My_Shortcoming"

[THobson]

Well that is exceptionally kind of you to say so, but I am not sure I can agree.  Talented would imply several missions all of a similar high quality.  What you have here is one mission, that if I had costed my time would be totally uneconomical to produce.  The concept and scale is unusual, and what surprises me is that no-one else seems to have done this before.  Please don't think me ungracious.  I really do appreciate your comments, it is just that all I seem to notice is all the crappy bits about the mission, and there is nothing in the mission that seems particularly complicated or difficult.

Well 5 hours might get you ½ to 1/3 of the way into the mission Lol.  I think a multiplayer mission with this concept would be great fun, but I think it might miss one important feature.  I have only ever felt it a couple of times in the mission but there is occasionally a very intense feeling of a particular type of fear.  The fear that comes from leadership.  You don't know what to do, you know you have to do something, anything you do might be wrong, to make no decision is not an option because to do nothing is to make a decision, you have no one to ask and others are depending on you to get it right.  If it were multiplayer you could have a discussion.  Or maybe I am over glamorising it.

Anyway thank you again for your comments.  To know that it is appreciated so much creates a lot of energy to make the next few improvements.

[MrN]

Not had a lot of time recently so only a brief update.

Decide against the airport and head towards St. Louis. Stick a mine on the road just in case and head to the high ground for an attack. Notice that all my group are now experts, they have been keeping busy with roving patrols.

A brief firefight and I get another message to get a flag up. My heart lightens when I see a couple of ammo crates.  I go on another mining operation and on my way back a 5/6 man patrol is coming from the airport area. I only have 1 clip so go to ammo crates first and just as I come round a corner there's 3 loons staring right at me. I had a bit of a Pulp Fiction moment while they fired aimlessly at me shouting russian, I dodged behind a house and lobbed a couple of grenades then came back round to finish them off. Trusty old 7 reports a loon at 50 and takes him out.  I get a message to take a flag again, sneaky little sods, they'd changed the flag again.

As I was stocking back up again a Hind reared it's ugly face and kept sweeping backwards and forwards over the town. I launched off 4 clips of PK fire at it and it ran off to lick its wounds. It then came back, I fired off about 3 M60 clips, it went off and came back again. I launch an RPG at it and miss. Decide that these are way too precious and leave the Hind until I find a Strela.

My Larche bugbear is still with me so I leave 7,. who I check is Karl this guy is good, at St. Louis and head off towards the place to see what's going on. Loon activity seems to have died down a bit recently so I'm interested to see whats there.

Well, that was easier, only about 4 loons left at Larche so they didn't stand a chance.  The flag is now up in Larche. I am wondering the significance of this though… Have I got to take all the flags?

Order the rest of my squad to Larche and while I'm having a nose around I notice a repair truck and 2 fuel trucks, unoccupied and undamaged in a nice neat line waiting to be parked in MY town of Larche. It's at this point I notice that the getting out of vehicles with the gun on my back irritant has gone. Weird.

FPS during all this was a fairly consistent 14.


I leave the remaining squad (Irena, Erik, Karl and Pavel) at Larche while I go Loon hunting. I decide Goisse should be my next target, a couple of retries and it's mine. I also have a brief "accident" with one of the AP mines which I leave next to the flag. My next move is to La Pessagne.

Park up my truck and sneak in, I can only see one loon running about. It looks like I've missed a major battle here, there's bodies everywhere. I take out the loner and put another flag up, I also leave another "present" for anyone that tries taking that flag back.

Head down to La Riviera, park up outside and take out the remaining 4 loons there, have a quick run around looking for a flag but there is none. I'm guessing they're only in "no-mans land".
 
Have a peak at the church on the hill, head down to the lighthouse, don't know why guess I'm just looking for Easter eggs  . I then move to Cancon.

Not much doing here, 3 or 4 loons lying in the road and 1 running around, again a brief firefight and it's clear. During this I get a radio message from the squad at Larch reporting Jeeps with MG's. Then one after another they get slaughtered. I did a good job on destroying the Resistance single-handedly!

I move on towards fuel near Chapoi, I engage a couple of troops and then get mown down in a hailstorm of bullets. Damn.

Good job I have used multiple savegames, I think I need to hop back a couple to try and dig myself out of this mess I've got myself in.

blowing a mission to pieces on my own

Got to eat those words now, seems like I do have to use my squad.

[THobson]

MrN:
Glad you are still at it.

seems like I do have to use my squad.

It is also more fun that way.  I can't say the mission is not possible on your own - some have doe it that way.  But I don't think I could

[SpikeTennyson]

I played OFP upon release and would now like to come back to the game in order to play THobsons mission (he is a long-time friend of mine).
I have a dumb installation question which I hope someone can help with.....
Have installed Cold War Crisis, Resistance and patch 1.96
I have put the Editor Upgrade in Add-ons (no sign of the original file), but when I try and start the mission I get the message shown on the attached file.

Obviously a simple error but I can't find the answer (I have looked!).

Any help gratefully received.
Thanks

[Cheetah]

Attached file, do I miss something?

[bored_onion]

bored_onion Plays this Mission

OK - here is a kind of truncated account of the stuff i've got up to playing this mission. It's the first chance I've had since I downloaded it about a month ago, although I've played it a little bit here and there. I'll try and leave stuff out that's mainly been covered. Take this as a playtest from a guy at the lower end of the ability range, as a lot of the people so far seem like real Rambo's. It isn't too long into the mission either - I'm only doing what I can actually achieve, you see. The computer I'm playing on seems to run this fine with ECP 1.085 so I've kept it on too. Spec is about 3GHz, but don't really know much more as its not strictly mine (my own is simply too poor to run any kind of Flashpoint without landscape disappearing at less than 1FPS etc.)

Mission:

OK start out do the fairly usual climb, cutscene murder, meet up, civilian rescue thing. Everything seems fine apart from a few of the camera angles in the lodge. Some of them are pitced slightly above the speakers' heads. I get to the second group of civvies and then start to look for more. Spent a while wandering around the forest next door to misguidedly look there. Kept getting shot by loons from the fog whenever I venture more than 100 metres north, no matter how many I kill.  

As a test, I leave my squad behind and run off to the other side of La Trinite to check for the others and find them dead. I can't be bothered to run back so I just reload and leave the corpses where they are. Now I head back to the lodge with a squaddy driving the truck and me in the low fuelled Mini which just about makes it back. We have no ammo and rubbish weapons and so I look for an easy target to put a foot on the first rung. Don't want to go anywhere near where I've just been or near Houdan because instinct and some tests I've read tell me it's nasty there.

I decide on Goisse because it looks out on a limb and easy to zoom in, kill, grab and run. Big misconception. I hop in the truck with a couple of my resistance soldier dressed fellas and we head down. Get out just to the North but I leave #5 in so he can drive the truck in when we need a getaway. 6 and i wander in and I take a pot shot at a loon standing by a house. I hear lots of ECP voices about and loons suddenly run out of the fog at me. A couple of tries and we keep getting shot to pieces. I tried coming in from the West but tanks and loons come from behind me. When I sent 5 to park the truck behind us to get out again our truck got blown up by some AT dude. It seemed that armour was being conjured up around me the second I fired a shot. Obviously this wasn't the case but such dynamic AI response to what I do is really giving me trouble.

Getting a bit demoralised by my lack of ability and strategy and so decide to reload from before coming to Goisse. This time we drive to Larche because I've read lots of people's accounts who went to Larche with a measure of success. We crawl in after leaving the truck behind us and the second I fire my opener there are reports of the jeep convoy coming through. I suspect this is just bad luck rather than conspiratorial scripting so I wait for them to go again. Tried again a few times but kept getting shot by loons left right and centre (under a truck). Hmmm.... :-\

So far:

At the moment, I'm still at square one trying to find a good place to start and seem to be really struggling whenever I meet any nasties. I am not the best player and the fog and rain are really getting in the way so none of my attempts to arm myself with anything more than 30 M16 rounds have been successful. My next plan will be to go to Dourdan but I'm not sure whether I'll have much luck. I might wait for the weather to clear but I can't think of anything to do in the meantime. It's kind of a shame because this is such a great mission with such an amazing game concept which I'm really desperate to get stuck into but I don't think I'm good enough. Reading back over what I've written, I don't reckon it's that useful but I've tried to do what I can.   If there's any advice as to how to get started I'd really appreciate it in order to give this mission the test it deserves.

[macguba]

This is a demanding mission on three levels.  The first is that it requires the player to be detemined, intelligent and imaginative.   You have clearly satisfied these requirements.     The second is that it is there are a lot of battles to fight:  you have to preserve your assets, be they squaddies, ammo or savegames.   Gung ho doesn't work, you have too far to go.

The third is the one that is sticking you:  each of these battles is non-trivial.   However, taking a village is, in and of itself, not particularly hard - you have done it dozens of times in ordinary missions and this is no different.  

What's really causing the problem is that, by bad luck, you are running straight into the dynamic aspects of the mission in a bad way.  The answer to that is to swear and try again, which is what you are doing.

The problem with the rain is that sometimes the AI can see further than you.   The answer is to hit the dirt and crawl earlier than  you might expect, and keep your loons right up.  Reorganise your squad to have some good guys with you - they can spot and shoot the enemy before you.

I don't want to give away too many spoilers.   However, when beta testing I always start by circling round Arudy without being detected and attacking it from the south.    The opposition is light but well hidden:  be cautious in moving towards the camp.    Rearm your squad quickly from the dead loons while you steal the truck.  Don't use the roads, just drive away somewhere where you can reorganise.   Hit and run, run being the operative word.  

This won't solve your weapon and ammo problem, but it will help.    It will be  while before you are in a position to tackle armour, so if you hear any just leg it - you can't win at this stage.    Similarly the jeep convoy:  if you suspect it is in the area, keep quiet.    Later it will make a fun and easy target.    You've still got some plot options too although they won't solve your ammo problem either, at least not directly.

However that's just me - there is no "right" answer.   Your strategy is fine:  just keep exploring and discovering, that is partly what this mission is about.   You've already discovered several things that don't work.   ;D

If you are good enough to play the Resistance campaign you are good enough to win this one.  I suspect you may be driving the truck too close and the enemy are hearing it.