(Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies

[THobson]

XCess:  
If I don't get it uploaded by tomorrow night it will be next weekend - I am away this week.

LeabBear:
I am at a loss about the problem you describe.  There really is nothing in the reorganise script that should do something like this.  I just get the guys to join grpNull and then join Alexi.  You say they ignore you if you tell them to look in a specific direction.  Do they ignore you if you tell them individually?

Addons for the sounds:  I had not thought of that.  Unfortunately there are quite a few changes to the sounds for the next version, so it would not have helped if I had thought of it.  Sorry.

[macguba]

look in a specific direction

This command is satisfied if the direction indicated is within the field of view of the unit.   Since the field of view is reasonably wide (150 degrees?) units quite often do not appear to respond.

I have also noticed that sometimes units do not appear to face in the direction that you have ordered.   However, they still report contacts from that direction.    When testing Un-Impossible Mission I came to the conclusion that the directio in which an AI unit in your group appears to be facing is not related to the direction in which it will be able to detect units.

IMHO the effects you are describing - although completely real - are nothing to do with this mission.  They are game engine "features."   You're only noticing them here because of the kind of mission this is.

For a large mission like this yes, if teh sound files haven't changed then a non-sound version should be published to help the 56 and 28kers.

[THobson]

Get v1.31 here

Okay so here is the ‘final' version.  I am still waiting for a few voices to replace mine, but given those the mission is now done, subject to you finding any screw-ups I might have introduced that is.  

Again there are too many changes from the previous version to list here, but the key ones, and ones I would welcome comments on are:

- Empty vehicles left at LaT will now be stolen by the next convoy to arrive at the town.
- No-mans-land is better delineated, and barriers are erected when the war starts
- I have done quite a lot to make the place feel more lived in.  As a result I have added a fair few static objects.  I am interested to see if you feel this has had a significant impact on lag
- There is a better reward for finding the third group of civis
- The sound of the wolves has been improved
- The escape from Chapoi will still happen even if reduced environmental effects is selected by the player.
- Several issues have been fixed including - the dialogue at Le Port; the team getting back into a vehicle when being reorganised. etc. etc.
- Immobile medical and repair facilities are now available at LaT
- Improved endscene
- Additional voiceovers, a new music track and a new voice actor: macguba!

I will be travelling until Friday with only intermittent access to the internet, so I may be slow to respond to any comments.  

I hope you like the changes.

[Lean Bear]

@ THobson

Addons for the sounds:  I had not thought of that.  Unfortunately there are quite a few changes to the sounds for the next version, so it would not have helped if I had thought of it.  Sorry.

No worries I just mentioned it because I didn't know how close you were to finalising the mission!

@ macguba

Yeah, I'll go with what you're saying. It isn't the chopper/s that are the problem, it is something deeper and darker in the engine itself. Something to do with save games. So now, whenever I save - I do my legit save game, then I use the savegame cheat to make my guys n' girl face the right way again.

[Mikero]

- There is a better reward for finding the third group of civis

this is a figment of your imagination Thobson. They don't exist and never have. You have brainwashed the others into believing it too.

BWAAGGGAAHA!

eep!

[Mikero]

Package:

Advertising Piccies: None. Time to put one in first thread Thob. You are going do need it as a cd cover <>

readme: typos

'not have all of you inexperienced'

'is many cases'
----
'I don't use unofficial addons'

Erroneous, you use editor102. You meant, I think, to only have addons activated that are needed and remove the rest.


---
Endgame:

Not mentioned, misleads as worded, and possibly was an issue at V1.00

you do not have to kill every last possible loon. There is no hunt the last loon bug. The impression given is that you do have to.

----

Overview:

Even better.

The following can rightly be ignored. "As young as you are, you must find help."

the reason being (bored_onion) isn't aware of the rookie nature of everything befalling you. This is a throwaway comment Thob, just the way I feel about it.

Intro:

Immediate impressions are these.

The Chapoi cutscene has changed to an exploding tank, while keeping the terrific shot of a surrendering solider in deep background.

You have introduced the barn inside shot (or, I was looking for it this time)

The titletext before all pictures is far too fast. Tremendously quick and might be me, or might be you so used to reading it you've qiuckened it too much. I had no problems, recruits will.


Briefing and blah:

no changes noted.

Group

yikes. Wrong, "On my own 'at first'". suggests too much of the coming mission, it's like saying to player sorry, i know you don't like this bit 'at first', but ...

Phrase should be "I'm on my own, but I'll soon have my Uncle with me". let player think that's a big deal, ho ho ho.

Mission:

Unless something startles, I wont do chapter and verse. I suspect however, before playing , that Vigny is going to appeal to me again, and somehting has changed again, but generally, I won't detail unless it stands out (again!!)

Thank you for another sleepless night or three Thobson.

[THobson]

And thank you Mikero for your constant attention to the details.  

I will make one comment before I run off to the airport - The speed of the text in the intro is slower than it has ever been, I am constrained by the length of the music.  I have some software that could stretch it a bit, and I could steal time from the pan between the two armoured groups facing each other by going for a completely different camera shot, with say a zoom instead of a pan.  When I speed up the pan it jerks too much.

Okay it is two comments.  The barn in the intro is one you found in the mission.

This getting a bit pythonesque.  Third point: East side of the forest east of LaT

[macguba]

Found a wee bug.   I'd done the Vigny thing and was driving the police jeep at top speed through Chapoi, with the intention of testing out what happens if you do things in the wrong order.   Got killled as I left the village, not sure by whom.   Deathscene kicks in, all perfectly normal, but then then a message in yellow at the bottom of the screen "Well this isn't going far in this condition."    It appears some script is running after I am dead.

The roadblock at the Goisse turnoff is much better.   However the M2 should be damaged/destroyed, or at least have no ammo.     The northrons wouldn't leave a fully functional M2 lying around.

Wolves - better

Third civvies - better

Lag - perhaps slightly heavier but not a big deal.    Suggest you reduce number of handgun types:  don't need Ingrams and Skorpion for example.

Overview - reverse "sister" and "mother"

[Mikero]

Liked the new pieces before Vigny instead of hint(s).

Begs the question whether the lag you mention in the readme is relevant any more since this 'time' seems to be swallowed by the titletext and delays while it's on screen. (I've never expeirenced any lag at this point, any version)

Nice new stuff when we get into damaged vehicles.

Is the damaged repair truck at Trinite a mistake? A catch 22 that to repair a repair truck we need a repair truck?

MacGuba's voice acting has enriched the game further.

Lag is back and quite ferocious. Not quite as bad as 1.22 but bad all the same. Pronounced around Larche (as soon as sound of M2jeeps in distance) pronounced around convoys if tanks are about and prounounced around tanks if choppers about. But chiefly Larche St Louis area.

I've stopped playing at this point because compared to the non lag version (1.30) this is not enjoyable. I'll wait to hear if others have similar troubles before i continue.

It could be that I have not started a war early this time, that normally causes a big drop off in lag as the numbers are reduced OR, they are no longer hunting me.

There was no lag at T3, but then again, there was no vehicle activity.

As far as I can determine, the convoys are not causing lag, nor are M2 jeeps on their own (I destroyed the Southrons very early, no issues)

Perhaps I was looking for it, or perhaps it's new. But this time, my weapon was indeed in 'safe' mode if I got out of civil truck, but 'ready' if I disembarked from a 5tonner. It might also have been in conjuction with the accumulating people I was getting in the squad. I don't find it a problem.

[THobson]

Just a quick comment on the lag, appropriate as I am suffering from the jet variety at the moment.  The previous version (v1.30) seemed pretty lag free.  Mikero you also commented that the appearance of armour early on was less apparent, but later you had two Abrams to deal with simultaneously.  I think all three are linked.  In that version I randomised the starting location of some of the armour units.  In doing so I set their waypoints too close the vehicles and as a result they never went on guard, so never chased you and only became active when they saw you.  I now have the waypoints further from the vehicles so they do go on guard, they will chase you and there will be many opportunities for them to be knocked out individually, rather than having to deal with them all at the end.  So I now think the level of lag in the previous version was anomalous

All the other things mentioned will be dealt with, but the lag is the one that worries me the most.

[macguba]

Forgot to say that the opening is now excellent, the start of the mission is very smooth.

As for lag, I didn't notice much but I didn't get far into the mission.  (Vigny - dealt with incoming squad - lodge - civvies 1, 2 and 3 - Sergei).   However looking at the map there are plenty of static objects that could be removed without affecting the look of the place.   (Believe me, I'm an expert on this one.)     I know you're not convinced that statics are a big deal, but removing them can only help.    The new fencelines (suggested by me  ) at Arudy and Larche are an example - the same effect can be achieved with fewer objects.

From a few random dips into the map from the editor I didn't hit any bad lag.

If you suspect its the early armour that's the problem, then a delaying waypoint should do the trick:  armour not moving till say an hour into the mission, or when you have killed 25 loons or something.  Randomised obviously.

You may already have viewDistance commands related to the weather.   No point in having it over 500 (the minimum) at the start.  I did this with Un-Impossible and frankly it was the secret weapon that killed the lag demon.

[THobson]

Thanks.

You may already have viewDistance commands related to the weather.  No point in having it over 500 (the minimum) at the start.  I did this with Un-Impossible and frankly it was the secret weapon that killed the lag demon

. I don't do anything with viewDistance.  Maybe that is a silver bullet, though I find the lag really kicks in later when the weather is better.  Still it can only help.

[macguba]

You'll find fancy viewdistance and fog stuff in fog2.sqs in Un-Impossible.     It's slightly more sophisticated that it looks:  note carefully how the timings interrelate.    viewdistance is set in init.sqs 700 is optimal for the player.  You would have thought - what with actually visibility being only 20 or 30 -  that there would be no difference between 500 and 700 but there is.

However you're right, it won't help in bright weather.  

[Mikero]

>lag

have read thru yours and Mac's to and fro...
---
Starting anywhere in the editor does not appear to cause any issues because nothing has been 'developed' as in there is no buildup of forces in a specific area (nothing has attracted them), nor, has there been sufficient time for converging waypoints.

Ie converging waypoints simply occur as a result, over time, of the mosquito jeeps being in the same location as say 2 or three tanks, or the convoy converges with one or both.
---

Apart from 1.30, all versions exhibit serious lag, often impossible lag (1 or 2 fps) in the dirt track between Trinite and Larche.

I guess static objects have lowered the threshold when this kicks in, thay have put accumulative load on the engine.

However, early mission play, and. just general running into tanks and blah has NO lag, This has always been the case. It is the Larche-T3 corridor that fails every time due no doubt to convergence.

THobson has, or guessed the key to this in the difference in guard groups in 1.30. The chemistry was right, in that, flies to fly paper didn't happen around the Northern T3 area.

This behaviour also happens at Larche Central. It really just depends, at that point, and time, into the game, whether you enter T3 or attack Larche. At that stage of the game, forces have begun to concentrate (converge) in those areas.

Another thing that has happened in this version is the severe dumbness of both sides. I am walking up to loons and shooting them in towns, and behind tanks, They are standing, or lying and have no motivation to go into attack mode or hunt anything. This is that hidden lag thing where the engine is keeping the video up to scratch (no visible lag) but is working overtime in the background trying to process everthing it needs to. The ai suffers as a result.

I've started noticing all the extra eye candy. Sandbags here and there, fortified towns, M2guns at St Louis and so-on. So I guess Mac is right (no reason why he wouldn't be) and that the static objects have put cumulative load on the engine which translates itself to dumb ai rather than anything visible.

[macguba]

Yes yes yes thats it thats it.

3000 sandbags alone on an island appear to create no lag because the engine can handle the visuals - after all they don't move.   However it is putting hidden load on other areas, such as AI.

Well that may or may not be true, but it would explain what we have collectively observed.

mikero is of course right that the lag only appears later on when vehicle groups come together.