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Offline h-

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[SP] Up to No Good
« on: 27 May 2015, 16:08:00 »
    Author: h-
    Version: 1.45

    Required Addons:
    None.
    Although Marksman DLC owners get some DLC specific stuff (new ghilies, new sniper rifle), but not required..

    Mission Description:
    "We have a target to go after, codename Ouranos. We will proceed to one of the OPs to observe Oreokastro, find the target and take him out using a precision artillery strike.
    It is imperative that we stay hidden until the arty shells hit. If our positions are compromised we will be in trouble.
    Which we will be anyway once the target is down.."

    Features:
    • Your main target is in randomly chosen building (chosen from 3 possible)
    • All enemy patrols outside the main target town are randomized (use no pre-set waypoints)
    • A lot of the other enemy presence is heavily randomized
    • Some AI specific behaviours enhanced (not too artificially, just hightening the engine's own features)
    • Absolutely awesome robot-speech spoken dialogue..  ::)
      New since 1.2:
         
      • Fatigue modded to have a 'adrenaline boost' -> When fatigued enough to slow down and unable to sprint you press down alt or ctrl and forward movement and you will get boost of fatigue 0 (kept for a 10-20 secs).
        Note that each time you use this the wait time for being able to use and the how long the fatigue is kept at 0 is affected and eventually you will not get the boost anymore.
        The 'activated' boost is indicated by a fast heartbeat. When the heartbeat ends the boost is over and you return to normal fatigue accumulation with some initial fatigue (which is also accumulated by how many times you use the boost).
        It takes a couple of minutes to be able to boost again, and this wait time also gets longer the more times you use it.
        Very close known enemy targets make the 'keep fatigue 0' time longer and give you less initial fatigue after boost is over.
        Stranger gets this same boost with you just make him keep up better..
      • Enemy choppers fastrope/land Spec Ops out to hunt/track you (they will find you if stay still too long)
      • If you have the Marksmen DLC you have a assault rifle in your (weirdly BIS designed invisible) backpack (only for the DLC users because otherwise you already get a AR rifle of sort). Note that when you select it you drop your long gun so don't forget it.. ;)
        The way this works is that when you open the inventory and drag the AR from your backpack to the primary slot the previous primary weapon is dropped on the ground (as usual). You get a marker on your map pointing to it which disappears only after you pick up the weapon. When you drag the AR back to the backpack if you are at picking distance of your rifle it gets picked up automatically. So the ideal way to change back to your rifle is to go within picking distance of it, open inventory and drag the AR back to the backpack.
        Also, if you drop your backpack you get the same marker on it.
        Obviously this also adds to your fatigue due to added weight.
      • ..

      DOWNLOAD (v1.45)
      DOWNLOAD REMOVED, AWAITING A NEW VERSION.

      ChangeLog:
      Version 1.45:
      - Fixed: code for "player hunting" was completely clusterf'd.. Should actually work now..
      - Fixed: Some minor clusterf'd stuff in the random patrol stuff..
      - Fixed: modded fatigue was hindered by nearby known enemies instead of the opposite it should've done (I really suck at this coding stuff...) :facepalm:


      Version 1.41:
      - Fixed: two scripting bugs..

      previous versions (click to show/hide)



      This was meant to be a first mission of a sniper/sabotage campaign (something like 5 missions long) which I never really got off the ground. The mission was made back in the day A3 was still in Alpha phase but the release of the Marksmen DLC rekindled my interest in this thing. The mission I mean, pretty sure the campaign will not happen..
      This is my first publicly released mission in like a decade so be gentle.. :P

      Should probably mention that if you're a rivet counting fanatic this mission is not meant to be some epitome of realism..

      If you for some reason want to use some scripts/functions/code from this mission file structure, ask first (mainly because I have not written them to be used anywhere else so for example MP compatability is nil, also they may not be bug free, they're not commented/some headers are outdated..).
      You are not in any circumstance allowed to upload this mission or any part of it (original or modified) to Steam Workshop or any other hosting site.[/list][/list][/list]
      « Last Edit: 24 May 2017, 07:57:09 by h- »
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      Offline savedbygrace

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #1 on: 28 May 2015, 05:52:50 »
      Cool, I've been browsing the steam workshop for missions and it is darn difficult to find good stealth missions.I'm thinking about running another mec for stealth missions. I'll offer the DLC bundle as the prize and I'll be the judge. I'll test this one tomorrow evening.

      EDIT: Played this one through. Short and sweet for sure. The toughest part was crawling back to exfil. Those robot voices were awesome. I couldn't understand why a herdsman was out in the pouring rain with no light, trying to watch livestock he couldn't see  :dunno: I attempted exfil twice in two different directions. The first time, I stuck to the trenches and ended up running into a patrol. My second attempt, I just crawled like the worm that I was, all the way to exfil. Passed within 100 meters of a full patrol standing in v formation and not actively searching for anything.
      Good work h-.
      « Last Edit: 29 May 2015, 07:09:04 by savedbygrace »

      Offline h-

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #2 on: 29 May 2015, 15:31:47 »
      Thanks.

      Quote
      I couldn't understand why a herdsman was out in the pouring rain with no light
      ???
      He should have a lit fire next to him..

      Would be interesting so hear more details as to which OP you used etc. :)

      You talk about the herdsman, I guess you went to OP1 which is the easiest (and oddly the 'randomness' seems to favor 1).
      The mission however is built so that only one of the target buildings can be seen from OP1 and the rest from 2 and reaching and then exfilling from 2 should be a bit harder.

      Quote
      Passed within 100 meters of a full patrol standing in v formation and not actively searching for anything.
      Probably some of my scripting bugging out somewhere, will look into that..

      EDIT:
      Quote
      Those robot voices were awesome.
      And it took huge effort to make them work as BIS_fnc_kbTell is not too clever (doesn't handle mixed-group conversations properly or if one of the "conversators" has died prior to/dies during a conversation)..

      EDIT2:
      Well oops  :P

      No wonder you spotted an idle group, all enemy groups change to "guard" wp once the arty hits so they stay still unless the chopper that comes about spots you and dispatches the groups on you..
      No wonder the mission turned to way too easy at the end; I lowered the chopper's spotting capabilities as it was just insane before (scripted, not engine, a bit introquet thing which the end-user doesn't even notice*) thus no idle groups because once the chopper flew about within 400 meters of you you were revealed a bit to everybody making the chopper come closer and once it flew over you it was pandemonium..

      *There is a few minor things in there I really don't wanna list unless you really wanna know. The mission should have replayability due to the randomness. At least two due to the random target location.


      Anyhoo, a fix is on the way. If I just wasn't so utterly bored of playing this mission for the 1 853rd time...
      If I could just decide whether I should make the chopper a bit more 'spottery' or not..  :hmmm:



      Also, got all excited about mission making so already realizing the plan I had for one other mission for the intended-but-now-abandoned sniper campaign. It should maybe be a bit more snipery..
      So more of this Ghost & Stranger pair might come up.

      EDIT3:
      Absolutely love this, just your one test led me to find a huge bug in what is basically one of the corner stones of the whole mission, the random patrol stuff..  :clap:

      It actually was completely broken limiting the patrols into a 200 meter radius of where the group starts in mission init.. And the whole thing has been broken since I wrote it in Arma1 (except it wasn't .fsm back then)  :D :D  :facepalm:
      So yeah, a bigger fix inbound...
      « Last Edit: 29 May 2015, 17:34:54 by h- »
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      Offline savedbygrace

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #3 on: 30 May 2015, 03:23:09 »
      I gotta say..."Bring it bitch!" I'd love to see more of these two guys. I might have to volunteer my smart ass voices if you'd like? I can do at least 2 that sound somewhat different. Make one black and I could infuse some off color remarks and/or comments between them as well. Its quite comical how 2 guys of different races can throw in off the wall conversation bits just to fill the downtime.

      Anyways, I didn't bother going into my usual beta test rant because I wasn't sure if you wanted to do anything further with it. Here goes...

      Played with Vanilla Arma3 on veteran(I think; I'll have to check that).
      Play Test Detail Spoiler (click to show/hide)

      Offline h-

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #4 on: 31 May 2015, 09:05:17 »
      Quote
      My damn spotter wouldn't shut about all the patrols he was spotting and it became annoying,
      I guess that's because he has the range finder or whatever and the AI still likes to constantly scan it's surroundings with any kind of binoc if it has one..

      Quote
      The damn Arma3 fatigue system sucks horrible ass.
      Really don't see any problem with it anymore, other than it's really annoying as it affects the AI too and it can't counter it as good as a human player can, which is why I had to write a counter measure for that so that the mission wouldn't be about waiting your buddy to catch up with you due to being overtly fatigued (he still does but he recovers faster)..

      Keeping your weapon lowered lessens the fatigue accumulation for example.
      IMO it's too harsh when crawling though.

      Quote
      If I am right about the targets house(setposing the guards after the Intel),
      Your not, they're there from the beginning of the mission, and the target building visible to the OP1 is very clearly guarded by standing sentries. The other two building locations aren't that obvious at all.
      But the detection process is automatic so basically you don't even have to know yourself if you are looking at the correct building as if you point it long enough the detection conversation kicks in.

      Quote
      perhaps move them to those balcony spots and back out again?
      It's a bit hard to get the AI to navigate inside buildings.
      Besides, the target person is in the top floor so they don't wanna disturb him :P

      Quote
      Regarding the Helo aggressiveness
      It actually uses a system that makes the chopper scripted spotting only happen within 400 meters of the player (or his buddy, both are treated separate) and the distance from to chopper to target, target's stance, location (in forest or not), is the target in a roofed building or not, how much it rains, does the chopper actually have a LOS to the target are all counted in (opted out in the movement speed for some reason though, maybe should put that in too).
      All of that is factored in a knowsAbout multiplier that is then used to reveal the target to the chopper.

      It then feeds this information to all enemy groups, I actually wrote a system there that I can fully control the AI's knowsAbout, as in I can reset it to 0 or set and keep it as anything I like.
      There how ever is a 'forget target' also in place but that shouldn't kick in if the chopper knows enough about the target. Of course it can be bugging out too :P

      But, I'll raise that knowsAbout multiplier stuff for the next version, see what happens then..

      Quote
      I decided not to go to the actual Observation point, my feeling was that even if there was one or two units standing guard, it was too dangerous to endanger the actual mission.
      You can kill some of the enemies, you just have to do it fast enough for them not to spot you. Once they for example fire at you have a few second window to kill them or the whole place knows exactly where you are.

      Back in the day I was planning on writing up a system which would wait a few minutes after a group was killed and dispatch someone to come and start looking for the missing patrol and if it was found things would go like they do after the arty hits. Because someone should probably care why there was gun fire but nothing reported..
      Maybe I just should put that in too while I'm at it (see, this is why I never get mission finished because the features just keep piling up :D ).

      Quote
      I might have to volunteer my smart ass voices if you'd like?
      Not a bad idea, I'm personally really annoyed by the voice I chose for the player as he talks too slow :D
      But that sound was like the only one that didn't have that much issues pronouncing words..
      « Last Edit: 31 May 2015, 09:08:15 by h- »
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      Offline h-

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #5 on: 22 Jun 2015, 09:04:42 »
      First post updated with new version.

      Took way too long because I tried to implement a couple of cool(ish) features but got prison-raped by the RV-engine/scripting engine so had to scrap those after all..
      Also the squad radio has been broken on dev-branch for like 2 weeks now making commanding AI pretty tedious a task so play-testing has been pretty low..
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      Offline savedbygrace

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #6 on: 26 Jun 2015, 06:58:21 »
      This play through, I chose the windmills as my attack point. I DID notice the enemy patrolling before the arty this time, which made it slightly more difficult. You state that you adjusted some timing issues with the audio, I wasn't focusing on that portion but I did notice that stranger mentioned the rain just as I called in the arty. That was more than likely coincidence.
      Once the steel rain was delivered, I was able to withdraw away from the OBS point, south for 1 click before the helo and UAV arrived on station. I then stayed prone. Unfortunately, Stranger likes to kneel when he gets within a meter of a tree and peek around it at some unseen ghost. The rain was so bad that it made it feel like i was watching a screen of static. You also say the enemy has just as much trouble seeing through it, I declare you wrong. They SUCK!!!!!!! Through that much optical interference, the uav and/or helo can see prone crawling bodies, and it is ridiculous. Even the soldiers can see us over 200 meters out while we are prone. The fact that they can see me and I can't see them until their muzzles flash tells me that its bullshit. The rain must go. It is not fun, it is only immersive in the beginning when trying to approach the OBS points undetected.
      The exfil should also be changed from having to reach a point closer to the AO when I have already crawled further away to having to distance my team so far away from the AO in any direction before the mission ends.

      Aside from these points, I see nothing wrong with it. I was over 3 clicks south of the AO when the uAV somehow spotted my team, and sent patrols my way. I ended the mission there without officially ending it.

      Offline h-

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #7 on: 26 Jun 2015, 08:21:13 »
      Quote
      That was more than likely coincidence.
      The 'rain whine' is controlled by the rain (via a trigger) so when the rain reaches a certain amount Stranger complains about it. It's impossible to detect if someone is talking so it can overlap with other discussions. However if a scripted discussion by me is going on Stranger should wait for a spoken sentence (by Ghost) to end before saying his.

      Quote
      They SUCK!!!!!!! Through that much optical interference, the uav and/or helo can see prone crawling bodies, and it is ridiculous.
      What Ghost says is actually more of a sarcastic remark than based on a fact because this is yet another BIS'd feature within the AI as the rain does not affect their night vision at all.
      I guess I should just make a bug tracker ticket about this.

      I've been thinking of adding a shoddy self-made fix for this as in A3 you can adjust the AI's skill by individual skill (aiming accuracy, spotting capabilities, etc..).. Not a fan of removing the rain because I like annoying people  :D
      It was originally meant to be randomized so you usually wouldn't get the full rain..

      The helo can see because it's seeing is mostly scripted (although it's sight is distracted by the rain among other things), and when it sees you it relays the info to everybody. Also both the helo and the UAV have thermals so the rain actually shouldn't affect those anyway..
      The chopper is fickle because if I lower it's spotting capabilities (scripted) just a bit it becomes a harmless flying brick, up them just a tad and it becomes all seeing terminator..  :dry:
      I'd rather keep it at latter because it makes the mission much more challenging.

      The UAV uses the basic engine spotting stuff so it has nothing scripted.

      EDIT/
      Yup, the rain doesn't affect the vanilla AI's night vision.
      DURR, it doesn't after all..
      So yeah, nice design there BIS...

      What we're experiencing in this mission might be that when the arty hits the enemy gets a very small knowsAbout boost (0.106) meaning it now knows someone is somewhere which doesn't trigger any of my scripted behaviour stuff but might trigger some in-engine stuff like make the chopper and UAV concentrate on the rough area they think the enemy might be. :dunno:
      All groups share knowledge so if one group spots you the information is relayed (with a delay) to everyone else (which is already kinda done by the game engine itself but made it a bit hightened). So if some group sees you in the distance (get say knowsAbout 1) then all of the groups will soon have that knowsabout which already makes them wanna investigate if close enough.

      The UAV is kinda controlled by a AI UAV controller so when the UAV sees something, he sees something and in turn everybody sees something after a while..

      I'll think about doing something to the rain (randomize it or something) and maybe tinker with that AI infantry spotting stuff to make it more affected by the rain.

      more tl;dr (click to show/hide)
      /EDIT

      Quote
      The exfil should also be changed from having to reach a point closer to the AO when I have already crawled further away to having to distance my team so far away from the AO in any direction before the mission ends.
      Somehow I'm not able to make any sense out of this sentence...  :dunno:

      You mean the exfil should be somewhere closer to which ever OP was chosen?

      Quote
      I was over 3 clicks south of the AO
      Huh?
      When using OP2 you are about 1.1 km away from the exfil, I myself use very wide runs when playing this mission and I have never gone further than 1.9km from the exfil.
      Well, there is secondary exfil if the primary gets over-run by enemies which is about 1km south from the primary..

      There should also be a AO limit so can't even go insanely far away but I may have never tested whether it works :P

      Quote
      Unfortunately, Stranger likes to kneel when he gets within a meter of a tree and peek around it at some unseen ghost.
      Even if on Stealth?
      Never actually paid much attention to what he does, apart from being annoyed as the idiot starts shooting at the helo if it passes right over us because the 'hold fire' uses the 'hold fire - defend' method :dry: so you can't order the AI to absolutely hold fire unless scripted.

      Quote
      I chose the windmills as my attack point.
      There is actually a very short 'cheat' in the very beginning of the mission that tells you in which building the target is :P
      | = choose OP1, || or ||| = choose OP2..

      Put it there if someone wants to play test both OPs you can hit 'restart' until you get the one you want.
      « Last Edit: 26 Jun 2015, 09:39:40 by h- »
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      Offline savedbygrace

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #8 on: 26 Jun 2015, 19:23:29 »
      I forgot about those darn thermals. Makes perfect sense why they would spot me through the rain then BUT, when they are flying patterns over the immediate AO and I am 2.5 clicks south of the target or maybe a click south of the assumed AO, they should have no reason to adjust their flight patterns to extend to my area if not spotted. Its okay as it is, to be honest, but the heavy rain makes it difficult to spot enemies before they spot me first. I end up having to rely on Stranger too heavily, who always seems to lag behind.

      Strangers AI is okay for the most part, it's just that he often does stand up to catch up or kneel at trees which causes me to assume the AI script is reading that position and using it against my own efforts at stealth. Perhaps the only way to fix it is to exclude Stranger from the script? Don't know.

      What I meant by that gibberish(I was half sleepy), Was that instead of having an exfil point, Task the player with fleeing the AO instead. This way he can choose which ever path he wants and as long as he puts a certain distance between him and the target, the mission will end. Like a radial end trigger. Player not present. Or distance check...player distance target > 3000.

      I engaged a patrol or two on the exfil and must say I liked those engagements since they broke up the crawling monotony, but the rain ruins the gun play. It's okay that you like to annoy but when the screen is all fuzz, its not fun to play on your playground. You could compromise?...Allow the rain to pour,slow,stop,slow,pour,etc. Off and on to allow the player to plan routes to engage, fallback, engage, fallback, etc. Letting him reach shelter as the rain increases, and run for it when ut slows. Just idears.

      Offline h-

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #9 on: 26 Jun 2015, 21:07:13 »
      F'IN TL;DR  :banghead: :cop:

      Quote
      I end up having to rely on Stranger too heavily, who always seems to lag behind.
      I always rely on AI spotting stuff because they are, and have been since OFP, far superior at that.
      Usually when I play BIS campaigns and such I tend to have a AI 'FO' team ahead of me as spotter/cannon fodder, if possible.. :P

      Also, Stranger's skill is at full 1 to make him a bad ass SEAL he is (since the whole premiss of the mission is what it is I'm assuming all of them; Bravo Six and the sniper team are SEALs which kinda allows the speciality of the actions they take. It was all more clear when this was a campaign on "paper" [means my brain])..

      At what combat mode you command him in?
      Because the default Stealth + diamond formation should keep him at yer heels mostly. Of course when he spots enemy he gets all BIS'd and may lag behind because of that until the threat dissipates..
      Also even though I use a script to alleviate his fatigue burden (as AI doesn't know how to manage it by other means than selecting less taxing terrain to move over, which may also cause him lagging behind I guess) he may get fatigued enough to slow down a bit for a while.

      Quote
      BUT, when they are flying patterns over the immediate AO and I am 2.5 clicks south of the target or maybe a click south of the assumed AO, they should have no reason to adjust their flight patterns to extend to my area if not spotted.
      Well, that should not happen unless infantry spots you because the chopper script (well, fsm) is limited to 500m, after that it's RV engine doing it's thing, and the UAV has no scripted behaviour. Infantry has a custom "event handler" if they spot you, and another when they fire their weapon at you at which point you have about 6 seconds to kill the guy and his group or everybody will know exactly where you are (simulating them screaming on public radio they see an enemy fucking snipers!!!111!11!1!!!)..

      Mind you though that both the flying vehicles have several 'Search & Destroy' waypoints with large placement and completion radii which they loop after they appear at the AO so their flight patterns are not scripted at all, just the engine doing their waypoints so if they seem to hunt you it's the game itself, not me..
      However, when the chopper spots you once you're pretty much screwed (which is basically unavoidable I guess).

      Quote
      Perhaps the only way to fix it is to exclude Stranger from the script?
      There's no other scripts running on Stranger than the "fatigue fixer" fsm. So what you see him doing is BIS AI..

      Quote
      Task the player with fleeing the AO instead.
      Ach, right, so I kinda got it almost right :P

      Well, the thing is though that since you're deep behind enemy lines you (well, at least me) would act like a wild animal and return the way you knew was safe just before, instead of just running into something unknown...
      Obviously the mission is designed so that you really shouldn't take the straight line back to Exfil though. Not sure if succesfully since I didn't wanna make it obvious by spawning 100 enemy troops at the direct line.

      Well, I could add a "hold on guys, we have a new safe house/pos at blah blah, head there" thingy..  :hmmm:
      Maybe make that random too..

      Quote
      I engaged a patrol or two on the exfil and must say I liked those engagements since they broke up the crawling monotony, but the rain ruins the gun play.
      I have to say when I play this I don't crawl at all, I mostly move at crouch (I click my own waypoints on the map, you know, left shift + mouse button, basically move from forest to forest). Faster/longer jogs on stand + weapon lowered to alleviate fatigue. I guess running with binocs or pistol causes less fatigue too..

      Of course I have an advantage of having a massive amount of debug stuff shown to me, as in I can see exactly where each enemy group is moving if I want to (which I considered adding as a sort of cheat if you pick up a enemy GPS, but didn't).  :D

      I myself use a 'Normal' difficulty setting modded to 'Veteran' except for the multiple saves so I save a lot to avoid the annoying "oh-I-died-love-to-revert-to-an-hour-ago".. It's still a game ffs..

      Quote
      .Allow the rain to pour,slow,stop,slow,pour,etc. Off and on to allow the player to plan routes to engage, fallback, engage, fallback, etc.
      I have to check how lacking BIS weather scripting is but this does give me (way way WAY too many) ideas..
      Like controlling the rain on enemy density near player etc. insane stuff  :D

      EDIT:
      Oh btw, please inform if you have the Marksmen DLC or not because I just realized if you do the whole thing is a tad more challenging maybe as you get a 10-shot sniper rifle instead of 30-shot marksman rifle..

      I have to say again that this whole beta testing thing is awesome, really love the '3rd party' take on this thing because obviously you get a bit tunnel visioned when developing something alone..  :good:
      I hope you're not holding back on your criticism because I hope for full honesty  :cool2:

      EDIT2:
      Well lol, I was tired friday but never realized how badly because I barely remember making this post..
      « Last Edit: 28 Jun 2015, 15:17:25 by h- »
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      Offline savedbygrace

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #10 on: 29 Jun 2015, 01:46:18 »
      Yeah, I have made several tired posts before just to get some feedback to the mission maker and I usually came off as retarded or angry.

      I DO have the marksman DLC since I got the Alpha package, all DLC's are included. I thought about asking why I had a sniper rifle while this is a Forward recon target but held back since we ARE an actual sniper team. The gun and 10 round mag were not real problems to be honest, It just took several rounds for me to realize the rifle had a minimum range of 300, and had to fire low at most targets. I hate pistols because, well they just suck at anything over 10 meters if you're not careful enough to get head shots, and let's face it, with that screwed up fatigue system, who can?

      I have always liked stormy missions, since they add so much to the atmosphere, but that pea soup NVG screen is horrible for gameplay, period.

      I absolutely enjoy trying to weave in and out of patrols, except when I can't see them. I have NEVER depended solely on AI for enemy spotting. Ever since OFP, I have always sprinted flank or point of my squad, despite the squad leaders insistent orders to return, in order to spot and call out enemy for the AI. If the commander does not know about them, they will not engage. I made sure he knew where they were and I would pick my targets quickly but carefully, making sure I was using solid cover to my own advantage against the super AI vision. They may know my location but If I have a tree or wall or rock as cover, it doesn't matter. I pick off anyone trying to flank us while dropping others as I can.

      At first I did not touch any formation or stance commands for stranger. When I spotted him standing to catch up, I ordered him to go prone. I never touched the behavior though. I know the enemy will engage when they are fired upon anyhow. I did once order column (or is it file) formation to have him stay behind me because he kept trying to pass me up at one point while we crawled after the target was down. I then ordered him to wedge (not knowing the starting formation).

      If you're not adjusting anything with scripts then, I suppose the only arguments I have is not being able to see well enough to choose my firefights. And being forced to exfil to a position closer to the target than what I am. After playing Dayz for so long, I got use to sweeping wide around player occupied towns in order to move onto the next one, so pulling so far back away from the AO is not an issue. Except that I can't see and I chose to increase the speed while crawling since the fatigue is unpredictable (you never know when it will force your character to move slow), I mean in "Reality" each man knows his limits and can muster the energy, with adrenaline, when having to sprint across an open expanse and then rest on the other side. Not in the Armaverse though. This whole fatigue shit was why i never played the ACE mods. I hated them trying to govern my movement.

      You're exfil logic makes sense on the OBS point in the castle. Move in, order the drop and move back to that safe point. You can use the cover of the gullies if you want. It doesn't when you go to the windmills though. That whole hillside is exposed between the exfil and OBS point. So my first thought was to distance myself quickly from the AO in a straight line and work my way around in a wide arc, hoping to avoid the suspicious patrol areas. The whole vision deal was a breaker at that point.

      Right before I aborted, I had gotten Stranger and myself to an abandoned house and instantly thought to wait out the storm and keep my eyes on the windows til it cleared up some. I could regain my energy, plan out which structure I would move to next(in a crouch) and repeat the strategy. My then only fear was running out of ammo for my rifle and having to either switch to that shitty pistol, relieve Stranger of his only defensive weapon or scavenge the dead for their gear. That's where the whole ideal of off and on rain spawned from. And it was one I was willing to endure for the sake of reality but I didn't think you planned on easing the rain up at all. So I didn't waste any more time in there.

      To be honest, I'm moving to fast I think. The whole pea soup NVG screen makes for an unfair advantage and a gamble when choosing routes. And I simply fast forward while crawling to get it done with. I thinks it's at that point when a real recon team would risk burying themselves deep enough into a thicket off of any trail rather than moving blindly into stirred up swarms of angry, meandering patrols. Especially if you have only brought a limited amount of ammo and must choose your engagements carefully so as to not deplete your only chance of escape. I think if the player knew there was a chance the patrols would calm a bit after several hours of searching, or the rain would slow to a sprinkle at some point, he may be willing to wait it out in a hiding spot, and should be rewarded for such patience.

      It's your mission though. Also, I don't usually hold back on feedback. I simply try and find constructive ways with offered suggestions to mention the things I don't care for.

      Another thing. I was not sure at first, how else you could do it but now that I think about it. The whole spotting the building idea and knowing instantly that it is the correct one, is crap. You really should plant that target near a window and make the player find the right angle to spot "him". After all, you did go through the trouble of adding an intel image of his person so that the professional could properly identify him. You would then present him with the opportunity to snipe him or drop the ordinance. It would also extend the play time of the mission a bit before the challenging but boring exfil.

      This mission should be less about the actual target and more about the escape and evasion. Because before the eyes in the sky arrive, it's not so difficult to pick and choose your paths to avoid the patrols. And with the whole Arty deal, there is not much skill in accomplishing the task, it's nearly automatic. Oh, and I did check my map while the ordinance was on the way and heard Ghost chasten me for removing the red dot. Clever add there.

      Holy crap that was a wall of text. Sorry bud.

      Offline h-

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #11 on: 29 Jun 2015, 17:18:28 »
      Quote
      I did once order column (or is it file) formation to have him stay behind me because he kept trying to pass me up at one point while we crawled after the target was down.
      The problem is that stealth mode acts pretty much like danger and the only way to keep Stranger from doing the 'go - I'll cover' stuff is to keep him in diamond formation (which is the only formation you can have your squad AI to actually follow you in danger mode).

      Quote
      I thought about asking why I had a sniper rifle while this is a Forward recon target but held back since we ARE an actual sniper team
      Well, an actual sniper would carry an AR with him too but since BIS are only now getting the pistols to actually appear in the leg holster pretty sure adding a secondary primary weapon is not going to happen any time soon..

      One reason the first update to this mission was delayed was because I got sucked into trying to make this secondary primary happen, I actually got this | close to getting it work but couldn't wrap my head around how to keep the ammo count correct (the weapon switching involves deleting and creating weapons so you would always get a full mag) and the really annoyingly clumsy animation system because you have to spend enormous amounts of time (and code) trying to find correct anims for every single god damn situation..

      Quote
      After playing Dayz
      * gasps *  :o

      Quote
      I mean in "Reality" each man knows his limits and can muster the energy, with adrenaline, when having to sprint across an open expanse and then rest on the other side
      Yes, this has been a big argument for having a visible fatigue meter which of course is mouth-foamingly ranted against by all the "NO 'CAUSE RELAISM/GUI CLUTTER!!11!1!1!!!" people..

      However, simulating 'second wind' or adrenaline is a tad impossible since how would the coders tell when you're running for your life and such...
      I actually thought of doing this with a "if run buttons held long enough after full fatigue -> give 'second wind'" but it's a tad complicated due to cumbersome way key events work.

      Fatigue is nice as an idea and all but the implementation could use some work.

      Quote
      but that pea soup NVG screen is horrible for gameplay, period.
      Ok, ok, true true.. :P
      I have been trying to have the game itself control the rain, full overcast and rain on auto but it's kinda annoying because it does the rain in pretty consistent intervals and always the same way; starts from 0, goes to full and then goes down to 0 again..

      Genius BIS have added commands fogForecast and overacstForecast to return the weather forecast data for those components but no rainForecast  :D  ::)
      Sometimes I really have to wonder the lack of logic in their actions..

      Their AI lead guy did however confirm that rain drops don't have any adverse effect on AI NVG vision.
      So here's hoping they fix it, even though it's probably not too simple because the peasoup NVG only happens when the lighting is 'correct' to cause such event so it shouldn't happen always. So not holding my breath on this one..
      I however made my own crappy 'fix' for this although it is limited to what can be achieved with scripting (basically the rain affects the AI's spotDistance and spotTime skill).

      Quote
      It doesn't when you go to the windmills though.
      I have now set this up differently, you get two exfil points you choose from, neither are where you start from and one is closer to the castle and the other closer to the windmills so you can select the one to go to.

      Quote
      You really should plant that target near a window and make the player find the right angle to spot "him"
      I'm assuming you have not actually reached OP2 and observed the target because when the target is at building 2 or 3 he will be clearly visible in a window (and the only one in the town wearing a beret, he is sitting in front of a laptop and sways and moves about in his chair). When he is at building 1 you shouldn't even be able to see/get him from the windmills.

      He's not visible through the window if he's at building 1 hence the very obvious guard detail (also, this mission was originally designed to be completed by using a UAV but couldn't make up a believable reason why you wouldn't just launch the UAV from where you start and never move a muscle and since setting up the target building is quite tedious work didn't wanna redo it again..)

      So you can snipe him if you're skilled enough when the target is at building 2 or 3, you have a thermal sniper scope in your inventory, it just completely sucks as it has no zeroing and no way tell by distance where the projectile will land so most likely what happens is you just alert the guy and he bolts (which is why Ghost laments about not having a proper night time scope in the briefing stuff).. Events only detect the target's death, not what it was hit with.
      However, there's a "bug" in there (iDumbAss oversight more like) making the target unkillable prior arty hitting the building so you may wanna try this after the next update  ::)  :-[

      Quote
      Oh, and I did check my map while the ordinance was on the way and heard Ghost chasten me for removing the red dot. Clever add there.
      I thought you'd like it.
      It was actually Stranger telling you to quit monkeying around. I originally had a punishment for this if you swayed off with the laser enough times but didn't really know what kind to use so removed it..
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      Offline h-

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #12 on: 04 Jul 2015, 15:04:01 »
      Been tinkering with this detection thing and actually your request about the guy being on windows makes no sense because as said in the intro the target is extra careful so why the hell would he sit in front of a window when he kinda expects to be a target?
      If anything I should somehow make it extra hard to even find the building..

      And here again one mission that makes as much sense as any Michael Bay movie. :scratch:

      EDIT:
      I guess I could justify for myself the target sitting in front of windows by the sat phone he has with him  ::)
      « Last Edit: 04 Jul 2015, 15:37:04 by h- »
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      Offline savedbygrace

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #13 on: 05 Jul 2015, 06:46:15 »
      Don't go crazy, it was only a suggestion because the whole point at building and promptly identify contents within felt a bit sloppy. Keep it as is, for all I care, Just tone the rain down so I can see to fight and all will be good.

      Offline h-

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      Re: [SP] Up to No Good
      « Reply #14 on: 05 Jul 2015, 07:02:11 »
      The detection of the target is a tad problematic in a sense that there is no way to know whether a player has actually identified a target, you can only get how much the player knowsAbout the target and you can't get more than knowsAbout of 1.5 of the target which basically mean "there's something somewhere over there" so hardly identifying a target even though obviously you can identify the target physically. :P
      Unless I make a lame dialog of choices "I identify the target" - "I don't identify the target", which obviously would be just absolutely abhorrent..

      However, I have now moved the target so that you can snipe him if you will, and edited the briefing and conversations to reflect it's your choice how to take out the target.

      Rain is still there, just handled "randomly" by the game itself (random in parenthesis because it's basically constantly the same, from 0 to 1 to 0 -> wait a while -> from 0 to 1 to 0, rinse and repeat..).

      EDIT:
      Well now one of the patrolling tanks is giving me a headache because when it reaches the castle proximity it retards-out and plummets down the hill south and slams full speed head on into the forest :facepalm:
      And then proceeds on to dry-hump each tree individually eventually, if you're lucky, moving slowly to dry-hump each rock within 300 meter radius until going back on the road only to go directly over it and plummet into the next forest, and so on... :banghead:

      Either BIS have "fixed" something making the AI drivers fear blades of grass too close to the road again, or the "OMG!! A RABBIT!! AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!" is back..  >:(

      EDIT2:
      Seems that tracked vehicles can't drive at all anymore so switched tank to Marid and problem "solved"..  :confused:
      « Last Edit: 05 Jul 2015, 11:01:52 by h- »
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