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Author Topic: cinematic close combat combo system  (Read 4624 times)

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Offline dmakatra

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #15 on: 07 Jan 2005, 01:59:02 »
I can say I've been around for uh, quite, some while ;) and I say that it'll not work as good as your say it will. There are 2 most elementary points why:

1. 2 unit anims in OFP = crap.

2. You'll never get that close to an enemy fairly undetected (fairly undetected: He hasn't seen you, but heard you) mate, and even if you somehow make it, the player will still choose the silent gun, as it's faster, less risky and basicly more effective.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

Jimpy

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #16 on: 16 Jan 2005, 00:32:40 »
Regarding the question of how realistic the notion of "snapping necks"
and "slitting throats" by soldiers is I would point out to you the views
of Peter Ratcliffe; the ex-RSM of the British 22nd SAS Regiment. This
Special Forces soldier is massively experienced - having been on active
service in, among other places, Oman, the Radfan, Northern Ireland, the
Falklands and the 1st Gulf War. In his autobiography "Eye of the storm",
while discussing critically some of the distortions and exaggerations
commonly written or said about Special Forces, he says:


"...weilding a knife in combat, rather than a firearm, is likely to get
you killed... and for clandestine operations, or those requiring a high
degree of stealth, members of the Regiment are issued with silenced weapons
...if you have to kill someone ...in combat or otherwise while on active
service, then you use your rifle or pistol. There is no unit of the...Army
that uses knives - other than bayonets - garrottes or crossbows to dispose
of the enemy. Any soldier who asks you to believe differently is either
lying, or has himself been taken in by some of the nonsense written about
the Special Forces."


I would also add my own comment that unarmed combat training is usually
given for the purpose of building aggressiveness and confidence rather
than for the intention of actual application in battle. Even armies
(eg. the Russian VDV and Spetznatz) who train intensively in hand to
hand combat freely acknowledge this. I myself have trained British Soldiers
in basic unarmed combat and at no time was this ever regarded as anything
much other than an interesting variation on PT.

-- Jimpy

Dubieman

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #17 on: 16 Jan 2005, 04:47:51 »
I have no problem with this idea, I wish OFP had the hand to hand kinda stuff in it, bash down a door, hit the guy with a rifle stock...

Then taking down somone with a knife, it'd make me feel good.  :o :)

But its like many have said, the unit to unit part is the toughest and a breaking neck or slitting throat would not work well cause the guys would wiggle all around and if you tried setpos then it'd look worse.

I agree a little 5-10 seocnd cutscene would look great, Metal Gear Solid ;), have the guy run up, sneaky like and whoosh. cutscene over. You wouldn't need to get that close. Just get within 5m and hit the action. Cutscene comes up, you get setcaptived and the neat action goes.

I do think a stabbing in the back or some sort of bayonet-like action would work better with minimal unit to unit crap.
But I'm not sure if its harder to kill someone via just the back or what... :P


As for the stuff earlier, why are gettin so up tight? We gots to loosen up. :cheers:

Leech

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #18 on: 16 Jan 2005, 20:55:22 »
I think this is a good idea, and that it very well could work.  
Of course if you just "try it in the mission editor" it won't work.  But using, knowsabout, disable ai, and setcaptive commands in scripts it will work.  

Yes you can sneak up close enough, no you won't get shot. I know because I've toyed with the same type of thing for like a prison escape using the strikefist movement and the effect actually worked very well.  With proper animations and a cutscene it would work even better.

As for the rest of you mabye you should quit bickering about this realism crap.  Oh, when you get shot 3 times then visit the medic tent and you're healed 100%, is that realistic? In real life can you repair a half destroyed tank at a repair truck in 10 seconds? No because it is a game, and this would add a lot of atmosphere to some part of a stealth mission.  
I would like to see it materialize but first you'll need some more advanced scripters/animators to reply instead of a bunch of ppl trying to shoot it down in every way possible.

« Last Edit: 16 Jan 2005, 20:58:21 by Leech »

Offline Planck

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #19 on: 16 Jan 2005, 21:18:21 »
Firstly

shooting it down #3765

I still say you can get shot whilst a cutscene is playing......by a soldier that you didn't notice previously.

My view on this won't change one iota.

But if you want to implement this...go ahead, however I won't be playing it.

Secondly

This is a Addons Ideas Board, if people have positive or negative comments about an addon idea, it is quite acceptable to voice them.  That is the whole idea of the board.......to add to an idea or point out possible flaws.


Good Luck


Planck
« Last Edit: 16 Jan 2005, 21:24:41 by Planck »
I know a little about a lot, and a lot about a little.

Offline dmakatra

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #20 on: 16 Jan 2005, 21:35:36 »
Quote
Of course if you just "try it in the mission editor" it won't work.  But using, knowsabout, disable ai, and setcaptive commands in scripts it will work.  

Exactley how would you incorporate those commands? :hmm:

Quote
Yes you can sneak up close enough, no you won't get shot. I know because I've toyed with the same type of thing for like a prison escape using the strikefist movement and the effect actually worked very well.  With proper animations and a cutscene it would work even better.
Yes, but then you have to crawl close (unless the complete area is empty of enemies which I doubt) , then stand up and sprint the rest of the way. You'll have to know the AI's "line of detection" which feels like using the AI's weak points something a scripter never should let the player do. Anyway, a quick, safe shot to the head is much more efficient. The player might want to check out the slip throat animation one time, but after he's seen it, he'll most likely use the gun instead. Do you really think we should put this much work with new anims (with animators this rare in OFP community, plus that the anims will most probably look crap anyhow, see Roachy's reply) when the player's gonna use it once, maybe twice, if he even gets close at all?

Quote
I would like to see it materialize but first you'll need some more advanced scripters/animators to reply instead of a bunch of ppl trying to shoot it down in every way possible.
Right. I see me, Planck and Roachy as fairly advanced scripters all three of us. I'm not here to shoot it down in every way possible. I'm here to share my experience. IMO, that whole sentance was utterley pointless as it's just a flaming bait.

My 2 cents.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
« Last Edit: 16 Jan 2005, 21:37:59 by dmakatra »

Leech

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #21 on: 17 Jan 2005, 02:07:28 »
Quote
shooting it down #3765
I still say you can get shot whilst a cutscene is playing......by a soldier that you didn't notice previously.
its called setcaptive

Quote
Right. I see me, Planck and Roachy as fairly advanced scripters all three of us. I'm not here to shoot it down in every way possible. I'm here to share my experience. IMO, that whole sentance was utterley pointless as it's just a flaming bait.
I didn't mean to insult anyone's scripting abilities.  I didn't mean better scripters i meant ones that wanted to help.  I understand everyone's points about their rights to post anything but it isn't very productive.  I remember there was a thread on how to make radio static and everyone that replied was like "modern radios don't have static".  !what?!! all he (and i as the reader) wanted to know was how to make radio static not a damn history lesson.  Its the same thing in this thread, both annoying and unproductive.  My statement had a point: in order for it to materialize what he needs is people willing to help

Quote
Exactley how would you incorporate those commands?
My little mission should be attached.  Its extremely simple and not flawless but with advanced scripting/animation it could be made much better.  It could give you an idea of one way this hand to hand stuff could be used.
« Last Edit: 17 Jan 2005, 02:10:35 by Leech »

Offline dmakatra

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #22 on: 17 Jan 2005, 08:00:05 »
Quote
I didn't mean to insult anyone's scripting abilities.  I didn't mean better scripters i meant ones that wanted to help.  I understand everyone's points about their rights to post anything but it isn't very productive.  I remember there was a thread on how to make radio static and everyone that replied was like "modern radios don't have static".  !what?!! all he (and i as the reader) wanted to know was how to make radio static not a d**n history lesson.  Its the same thing in this thread, both annoying and unproductive.  My statement had a point: in order for it to materialize what he needs is people willing to help.
This is Addons: Ideas, that's what this forum is about. If you want someone to make anything and recruit a team, you head over to the recruitment depot.

Quote
My little mission should be attached.  Its extremely simple and not flawless but with advanced scripting/animation it could be made much better.  It could give you an idea of one way this hand to hand stuff could be used.
I'll download it after school. The thing I'm interested in is how you used disableAI.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
« Last Edit: 17 Jan 2005, 08:00:20 by dmakatra »

Leech

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #23 on: 17 Jan 2005, 09:23:30 »
the "mission" really isn't even worth the download

disable ai "move" and a trigger with a ?knowsabout can let you sneak up behind them but still be detected when you walk in front.  
same sort of thing for a guard thats walking except with disableai "autotarget" or something

none of it works perfectly, and if you don't catch their attention the right way sometimes they won't shoot at you.  If you've ever messed with disableai i think you know what im talking about.  Also i cant make it work right at night which is the time you would do this stealth stuff at so that sucks.  

But my point is i got it to halfway work so with proper scripting i think it would work.    

 

Offline dmakatra

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #24 on: 17 Jan 2005, 15:56:48 »
The big problem with disableAI is that you can't enableAI. Other than that, it's one step closer.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

Lean Bear

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #25 on: 19 Jan 2005, 11:32:58 »
I'd just like to chip in here and say that 2 person anims are very possible.

Hell, you could have a 10 man brawl and it would work fine.

I also think this is a very good idea. I've been waiting for a long time for something like this to come along as I'm tired of using strokeGun to knock out the enemy.  

Offline Morglor9

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #26 on: 12 Mar 2005, 02:44:41 »
Personnally, i think this is sweet. Nice, quiet Splinter Cell type killing (that's really what it is, punch a button or two and the comp does the work). Would be excellent in OFP. could make a mission so that u have to use this, if u fire ur gun u get detected. This would be great.
Cymbaline

Lean Bear

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Re:cinematic close combat combo system
« Reply #27 on: 12 Mar 2005, 11:37:25 »
Try playing "Hawk In Nets" (one of the MEC Finalist missions).

That has CQC anims etc.

I'd check that out for the "Splinter Cell" type things you're looking for, Morgior9.