cinematic close combat combo system

[BronzeEagle]

like when you get close to an enemy soldier, you have in your action menu a list of attacks you can perform, then it goes into cinematic mode automatically like on tenchu: fatal shadows and you pull off a special move like grab the enemy soldiers head and snap his neck then his body drops, and then the cinematic comes off and it goes back to the mission.  This is VERY possible in ofp, especially with the animation maker already out, and with simple cinematic scripting and an addaction placed on the enemy soldier.  Just to be used on soldiers standing by themselves so you're not pulling off these moves while other soldiers are watching and get shot during the animation.  A whole host of moves would have to be animated though.  The addon would consist of the new animations, the scripts and a demo mission of how to add them that would kick in the moves when you get close to a soldier and choose it off the action menu.  Sounds easy though for an animator and scripter.    

[Kaolin]

you like your ninja moves, huh?  

well yeah maybe its possible, i wudnt know. but i do know it'd take a while, and im willing to bet not many people could be a***d to do all that for a game which is NOT designed for this.
well thats my view anyway...

Kaolin

[greg147]

I'd like to see a soldier in full pack with grenades, mags, and an M16 along with all the other gear do kung-fu  

[dmakatra]

Also note that you'll hardly never get that close to an enemy, even when sneaking. And if you do somehow, you still have to be fast as hell to select the attack before he shoots you. Better to blow his head off, fast and easy.

Another problem is that you can't detect if the attacker and/or the victim is prone, crouching or standing.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[BronzeEagle]

well you know how you got a patrol man, your within a certain distance to him, you select it in the action menu, it goes into cinematic mode and you run up and snap his neck or slit his throat with a knife.  Special Forces type stuff because as you know, those suppressors aren't one hundred percent quiet.  It's simple military hand to hand combat.  Of course for the animation to work the person would have to be standing up.  But you could always run up to him fast as hell before he can turn around and see you as a very sneaky spec op with a very low detection ratio, then quickly select the move from the action menu or have it already ready, then boom select it, it goes into cinematic mode and you're taking the guy out.  I could see it working for ofp.  You could always get close to the enemy if you sneak from a bush or something.  What if you're a seal who came in from the sea, think from a special forces perspective guys.  You guys act like this is all make believe but I know real military people who say they train to do this stuff, and i've seen it in movies, thats two sources, and im sure you could find more.  This stuff ain't just in the movies, and no its not kung fu to use a simple knife or snap someones neck, especially its not fake if you're special forces.  They're trained to get in that close, what with only twelve guys in a squad undetected?  How could you call this make believe?  I know you got your own opinion and everything but don't be so quick to pass off a good idea.  Especially when its real, it adds to the game, and everything.  You guys are all "so you like your kung fu huh?" and "oh come on, you'd never get that close"  you guys have no clue how easy it is or the objective.  I'm talking about a village, not a radar protected base, okay?  The same remote locations in which special forces operate.  Don't tell me "Oh thats only in movies" cuz if you ask around, you'll find yourself to be wrong too.  I've already done my research before i mentioned the topic, i knew a few of you would be critical without even knowing the reality of it.  Kinda pisses me off, but hey, most of you don't study, therefore don't know.    

[greg147]

Basically a bayonet movement, but with just the knife.
 It would be a good idea, but useless in OFP unless you run out of ammo. In the game, you can be in a bush 1 meter away from 2 guys, shoot one with a HK, and providing the other guy isn't looking at him, he'll never notice. Even if the guy screams and makes a thunp when he goes down, its just a game.

[BronzeEagle]

why does it gotta be so simple as a bayonet movement though?  why can't it go into an animation set like other games where both the enemy and the friendly player are set into position after a black out and cinematically you see the kill happen, then it blacks in again?  Of course it'd only work on a soldier who's alone by himself.  i'm telling you special forces really do this type of stuff.  I know.  You can't say I'm wrong.  I'm not just some armchair warrior who doesn't know his stuff.  I've been trained myself and know real warriors in the military can sneak up to a man and slit his throat or snap his neck amongst other things.  Hideo Kojima even knows that but you all think I have no clue what I'm talking about.  Makes me wonder if you people got something against me personally or if you're just plain you know....    

[greg147]

Hey, I didn't say anything like that at all. I was just saying it would be like a bayonet script, with close quarter killing. Theres no need to get angry with anyone  
You've gotta be able to accept someone saying the idea may not work without lashing out.

So, are you talking about going near someone, selecting something in the action menu, and it going into a cutscene of you killing the guy via knifing him? Or are you talking about going up behind someone, selecting knife as a weapon, and doing the work yourself with special animations?

[BronzeEagle]

I'm not interested in talking things out again to be friends I just want the idea out there to see who's going to pick it up.  Any attempts at trying to make things cool with me are futile, this is business not personal.  I don't need to talk with you if you're not an animator or scripter.  


 

[greg147]

I am a animator. Its just the way you said 'tenchu: fatel shadows' in the first post made it sound like you wanted Jackie Chan stuff. If you had said 'Metal Gear Solid', it would have been different.  

[BronzeEagle]

Dude your spamming and flaming, getting all personal, this is addon ideas, keep it professional.  If you're not an animator or a scripter or issued the idea, you have no use in even typing in this forum thread.  Cool it before I alert a moderator.    

[Planck]

Nope, I don't think this will work very well at all.

Even if it was easily done, I can't imagine twiddling my thumbs whilst I waited for an animation of the kill to play out and maybe get killed whilst it was playing by an enemy soldier that I hadn't noticed.

btw.....All the aggression in this thread is only coming from one direction.  It might be better to cool it down a tad.

As for posting in this thread....This is a public forum, if anyone thinks they have a comment to add, either positive or negative, it is perfectly acceptable.


Planck

[dmakatra]

Woawoa matey, take it cool ok? I just replied I don't think it'll fit very nice into OFP, and I stand by it, and you start babbling about RL.

Dude your spamming and flaming, getting all personal, this is addon ideas, keep it professional.  If you're not an animator or a scripter or issued the idea, you have no use in even typing in this forum thread.  Cool it before I alert a moderator.

He hasn't spammed or flamed anyone, if you re-read the thread it's more like you getting all aggressive and stuff. Chill down a bit. Yes, this is a serious forum, but you sound like some kind of lawyer lol. And addons: ideas is for anyone to express their opinion. I for one is not neither an animator or an addon maker but I have peeked in it and I've been around OFP long enough to know it's boundaries.

Anyway, back to the idea. It would be cool if it would work. OK, OK, it might look good (although I doubt it, as two-unit anims isn't something that OFP handle very good) but you rarley get that close to a unit undetected. Try it in the mission editor. And even if you do, he'll notice you before you got time to operate the action menu. You might just want to settle with a bayonette or something.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

EDIT: What Planck said too.

[Noon416]

Calm down BronzeEagle, I can see nothing wrong with what greg147 has posted. His comments have been completely reasonable and on-topic.

So start behaving or it will be yourself at the business end of a temporary ban, not anyone else.

[BronzeEagle]

Alright as calmly as possible:  
I don't know if you three are new to flashpoint, or the military in general so I'll be as calm as possible and explain.

This script and animation addon idea would be for missions involving tears of the sun seals or HYK SF CQB or some other spec ops and black ops character classes, obviously not grunts with backpacks.  That's just too easy to figure out for guys like me but hey....

Anyhow, I know what flashpoint can do, and have experienced scripting and config and mission work for a long time now and am smart enough to explain it in detail, but just can't make it possible myself due to lack of animating skills.    

[dmakatra]

I can say I've been around for uh, quite, some while and I say that it'll not work as good as your say it will. There are 2 most elementary points why:

1. 2 unit anims in OFP = crap.

2. You'll never get that close to an enemy fairly undetected (fairly undetected: He hasn't seen you, but heard you) mate, and even if you somehow make it, the player will still choose the silent gun, as it's faster, less risky and basicly more effective.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[Jimpy]

Regarding the question of how realistic the notion of "snapping necks"
and "slitting throats" by soldiers is I would point out to you the views
of Peter Ratcliffe; the ex-RSM of the British 22nd SAS Regiment. This
Special Forces soldier is massively experienced - having been on active
service in, among other places, Oman, the Radfan, Northern Ireland, the
Falklands and the 1st Gulf War. In his autobiography "Eye of the storm",
while discussing critically some of the distortions and exaggerations
commonly written or said about Special Forces, he says:


"...weilding a knife in combat, rather than a firearm, is likely to get
you killed... and for clandestine operations, or those requiring a high
degree of stealth, members of the Regiment are issued with silenced weapons
...if you have to kill someone ...in combat or otherwise while on active
service, then you use your rifle or pistol. There is no unit of the...Army
that uses knives - other than bayonets - garrottes or crossbows to dispose
of the enemy. Any soldier who asks you to believe differently is either
lying, or has himself been taken in by some of the nonsense written about
the Special Forces."


I would also add my own comment that unarmed combat training is usually
given for the purpose of building aggressiveness and confidence rather
than for the intention of actual application in battle. Even armies
(eg. the Russian VDV and Spetznatz) who train intensively in hand to
hand combat freely acknowledge this. I myself have trained British Soldiers
in basic unarmed combat and at no time was this ever regarded as anything
much other than an interesting variation on PT.

-- Jimpy

[Dubieman]

I have no problem with this idea, I wish OFP had the hand to hand kinda stuff in it, bash down a door, hit the guy with a rifle stock...

Then taking down somone with a knife, it'd make me feel good.  

But its like many have said, the unit to unit part is the toughest and a breaking neck or slitting throat would not work well cause the guys would wiggle all around and if you tried setpos then it'd look worse.

I agree a little 5-10 seocnd cutscene would look great, Metal Gear Solid , have the guy run up, sneaky like and whoosh. cutscene over. You wouldn't need to get that close. Just get within 5m and hit the action. Cutscene comes up, you get setcaptived and the neat action goes.

I do think a stabbing in the back or some sort of bayonet-like action would work better with minimal unit to unit crap.
But I'm not sure if its harder to kill someone via just the back or what...


As for the stuff earlier, why are gettin so up tight? We gots to loosen up. :cheers:

[Leech]

I think this is a good idea, and that it very well could work.  
Of course if you just "try it in the mission editor" it won't work.  But using, knowsabout, disable ai, and setcaptive commands in scripts it will work.  

Yes you can sneak up close enough, no you won't get shot. I know because I've toyed with the same type of thing for like a prison escape using the strikefist movement and the effect actually worked very well.  With proper animations and a cutscene it would work even better.

As for the rest of you mabye you should quit bickering about this realism crap.  Oh, when you get shot 3 times then visit the medic tent and you're healed 100%, is that realistic? In real life can you repair a half destroyed tank at a repair truck in 10 seconds? No because it is a game, and this would add a lot of atmosphere to some part of a stealth mission.  
I would like to see it materialize but first you'll need some more advanced scripters/animators to reply instead of a bunch of ppl trying to shoot it down in every way possible.

[Planck]

Firstly

shooting it down #3765

I still say you can get shot whilst a cutscene is playing......by a soldier that you didn't notice previously.

My view on this won't change one iota.

But if you want to implement this...go ahead, however I won't be playing it.

Secondly

This is a Addons Ideas Board, if people have positive or negative comments about an addon idea, it is quite acceptable to voice them.  That is the whole idea of the board.......to add to an idea or point out possible flaws.


Good Luck


Planck

[dmakatra]

Of course if you just "try it in the mission editor" it won't work.  But using, knowsabout, disable ai, and setcaptive commands in scripts it will work.  

Exactley how would you incorporate those commands? :hmm:

Yes you can sneak up close enough, no you won't get shot. I know because I've toyed with the same type of thing for like a prison escape using the strikefist movement and the effect actually worked very well.  With proper animations and a cutscene it would work even better.

Yes, but then you have to crawl close (unless the complete area is empty of enemies which I doubt) , then stand up and sprint the rest of the way. You'll have to know the AI's "line of detection" which feels like using the AI's weak points something a scripter never should let the player do. Anyway, a quick, safe shot to the head is much more efficient. The player might want to check out the slip throat animation one time, but after he's seen it, he'll most likely use the gun instead. Do you really think we should put this much work with new anims (with animators this rare in OFP community, plus that the anims will most probably look crap anyhow, see Roachy's reply) when the player's gonna use it once, maybe twice, if he even gets close at all?

I would like to see it materialize but first you'll need some more advanced scripters/animators to reply instead of a bunch of ppl trying to shoot it down in every way possible.

Right. I see me, Planck and Roachy as fairly advanced scripters all three of us. I'm not here to shoot it down in every way possible. I'm here to share my experience. IMO, that whole sentance was utterley pointless as it's just a flaming bait.

My 2 cents.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[Leech]

shooting it down #3765
I still say you can get shot whilst a cutscene is playing......by a soldier that you didn't notice previously.

its called setcaptive

Right. I see me, Planck and Roachy as fairly advanced scripters all three of us. I'm not here to shoot it down in every way possible. I'm here to share my experience. IMO, that whole sentance was utterley pointless as it's just a flaming bait.

I didn't mean to insult anyone's scripting abilities.  I didn't mean better scripters i meant ones that wanted to help.  I understand everyone's points about their rights to post anything but it isn't very productive.  I remember there was a thread on how to make radio static and everyone that replied was like "modern radios don't have static".  !what?!! all he (and i as the reader) wanted to know was how to make radio static not a damn history lesson.  Its the same thing in this thread, both annoying and unproductive.  My statement had a point: in order for it to materialize what he needs is people willing to help

Exactley how would you incorporate those commands?

My little mission should be attached.  Its extremely simple and not flawless but with advanced scripting/animation it could be made much better.  It could give you an idea of one way this hand to hand stuff could be used.

[dmakatra]

I didn't mean to insult anyone's scripting abilities.  I didn't mean better scripters i meant ones that wanted to help.  I understand everyone's points about their rights to post anything but it isn't very productive.  I remember there was a thread on how to make radio static and everyone that replied was like "modern radios don't have static".  !what?!! all he (and i as the reader) wanted to know was how to make radio static not a d**n history lesson.  Its the same thing in this thread, both annoying and unproductive.  My statement had a point: in order for it to materialize what he needs is people willing to help.

This is Addons: Ideas, that's what this forum is about. If you want someone to make anything and recruit a team, you head over to the recruitment depot.

My little mission should be attached.  Its extremely simple and not flawless but with advanced scripting/animation it could be made much better.  It could give you an idea of one way this hand to hand stuff could be used.

I'll download it after school. The thing I'm interested in is how you used disableAI.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[Leech]

the "mission" really isn't even worth the download

disable ai "move" and a trigger with a ?knowsabout can let you sneak up behind them but still be detected when you walk in front.  
same sort of thing for a guard thats walking except with disableai "autotarget" or something

none of it works perfectly, and if you don't catch their attention the right way sometimes they won't shoot at you.  If you've ever messed with disableai i think you know what im talking about.  Also i cant make it work right at night which is the time you would do this stealth stuff at so that sucks.  

But my point is i got it to halfway work so with proper scripting i think it would work.    

 

[dmakatra]

The big problem with disableAI is that you can't enableAI. Other than that, it's one step closer.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[Lean Bear]

I'd just like to chip in here and say that 2 person anims are very possible.

Hell, you could have a 10 man brawl and it would work fine.

I also think this is a very good idea. I've been waiting for a long time for something like this to come along as I'm tired of using strokeGun to knock out the enemy.  

[Morglor9]

Personnally, i think this is sweet. Nice, quiet Splinter Cell type killing (that's really what it is, punch a button or two and the comp does the work). Would be excellent in OFP. could make a mission so that u have to use this, if u fire ur gun u get detected. This would be great.

[Lean Bear]

Try playing "Hawk In Nets" (one of the MEC Finalist missions).

That has CQC anims etc.

I'd check that out for the "Splinter Cell" type things you're looking for, Morgior9.