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Author Topic: (Review Completed) [SP] Defensive Strike  (Read 13629 times)

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Offline THobson

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #30 on: 08 Jun 2004, 20:31:53 »
I am not sure it is as simple as just leaving out the camera.sqs for the Intro.  It seems to me that it is something to do with the units on the Intro map.  But even then it is puzzling, I have less units, waypoints, everything, on the Intro map than I do in the main mission, but having the Intro seems to increase the file size by many times.  I have the same camera.sqs. for my Intro as I had before when it was used for an opening cutscene.

Dubieman

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #31 on: 08 Jun 2004, 20:36:51 »
Maybe intro.sqm or sqs whichever it is is a larger file, more than the mission.sqm but I think you don't want to destroy your whole intro right now just to make it a little shorter download for us.

Its your decision, this is the first time I've posted a beta of a mission so I'm still rather new to it. :)

Gooner861

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #32 on: 08 Jun 2004, 21:07:11 »
Just wondering GRK where did u put ur mission Lost in Translation so that people cud upload it, i read that ur file will be bout 4.5 megs. Wot site u use?

Dubieman

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #33 on: 08 Jun 2004, 21:29:10 »
My file will be 4.5 megs once my little linkin park music is planted in there. ;D
Right now its like 23kb or 30 kb or something like that, I'm not sure.

Right now I'm just staying with the forum.

If you want to know about websites I heard freewebs worked, otherwise check my topic:websites? in mission depot Q's/comments where I got my Q answered. ;)
« Last Edit: 08 Jun 2004, 21:30:29 by GuiltyRoachKilla »

Offline THobson

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #34 on: 08 Jun 2004, 22:16:48 »
I would rather not mess with it now,  I think the mission is now pretty much done and I am just waiting to see if there are any more comments before looking for something else to do.

I was not in favour of moving the opening cut scene to being an Intro but I now think it was a good suggestion, it fits well and it is easier to get into the mission if you don't need to see the scene again.

The large file size was not a pleasant surprise though.

As for free web sites you could look at http://www.1asphost.com/  The only problem being that it will unzip any zip file you upload.  I used it until I found my ISP had already provided me with some web space already.




Gooner861

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #35 on: 09 Jun 2004, 16:13:44 »
I shud be able to play more on saturday, im stuck with school work. U will just have to wait  ;D but the rest sounds good from wot ive read.

Offline macguba

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #36 on: 10 Jun 2004, 17:37:59 »
Right, a quick go.   The enormous file size is because of the psd files, I don't know what they are but I suspect they were part of your jpg creation process and they can come out.   The jpgs themselves are not the problem.

Overview - lovely.   It's conventional to add your name:  put it on a second page if you like.

Intro - fine.   The lads are right that this should be an Intro rather than an opening cutscene.

Plan - Why do we need to take these secondary objectives first?  

Notes - Need more information on what Bravo is going to do at the road junction.  "Watch your back" is not specific enough.    

Gear/Squad - you have an excess of Berettas.   I would offer just one each of M21 and M60, and possibly also M16/M203 as well.  Reduce the number of mags available too.

Mission -

Would suggest Blackhawk with MG rather than rockets.    The third radio text should be more dramatic "Green on - Go! Go! Go!"

Drop went beautifully.   enableradio false until the player is ont he ground.    Chopper hangs around hovering for a long time after we
land.     "Please send Bravo" should be radio message 1 and a little more military and snappier "Bravo insertion - go".

Moved south towards the base.   It felt like a scripted flare/BMP trap:   have the flares going the whole time, not just when you approach.      Lost a loon so went exploring and got shot.

/more later
« Last Edit: 10 Jun 2004, 18:07:22 by macguba »
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Offline THobson

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #37 on: 10 Jun 2004, 21:16:39 »
Macguba.

Thanks.  I did use a psd file to create the jpg, but I now only have a jpg in the mission directory (how did you know there was a psd involved?).

Ok I will put my name in the Overview

Secondary objectives: two reasons - these soldiers will reinforce the main base if thay are left alive, also the first base is a good location for Bravo to be dropped off.  I presume you didn't mean the answer to be put here rather it should be put in the Briefing.  I will do that.

I will give a better explanation of what Bravo will be doing also.  In fact they guard the road you will have just travelled along to ensure nothing comes up behind you while you are taking the road junction.

I will also have a look at the weapons load out.  I was a bit generous.

I will also look at the chopper used.  They don't actually use their weapons at all though.  Why would you prefer MGs?

The chopper sometimes hangs around and sometimes not.  I think it just depend on how long it takes to get close enough to the waypoint before it heads off to wait to pick you up later

I am not a fan of the over the top boy's own language in the radio communication.  I prefer something a bit more understated and polite.  It feels more realistic (to Brit anyway)

The only scripts are for the ejection from the chopper, the flares, the radio, the vehicle smoke, the cutscenes and a couple of bug fixes for if Bravo decides not to get in the truck or the chopper.  Nothing else.  It is all done with waypoints and triggers and I do not cheat with any 'knowsabout' either.

The flares start when the base goes on alert, I am not sure they would be firing them off before that.  Why would you prefer them to be going from the start?

I hope there is more later - you have a long way to go - and your comments are helpful

Offline macguba

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #38 on: 10 Jun 2004, 22:02:07 »
Chopper with MG would just feel more realistic than with rockets for a specops insertion.   Not a big deal.

Style in radio chat is of course entirely a matter of taste.   I'm a Brit myself so I know what you mean about OTT Yanks.   ::)

Depbo'd the file to find out why it was so big - the psds are in there.

If the chopper is just being an arsey chopper in hanging around, then so be it - choppers are like that sometimes.

There is more to come, on my first attempt at the base we were detected at 500m out without firing, which just seemed a bit harsh.     It's possible, if you want, that the base would be firing flares beyond the perimeter at random intervals - you don't see it much now, what with NVGs and all, but once upon a time it was a standard defence measure.    Again, not a big deal, entirely a question of aesthetics.

When you say the flares are scripted I hope you mean there is a script to make the guards fire them, (which is fine) not that you are camcreating them out of thin air.

On my second attempt I headed southeast and went through the woods to come at the base from the northeast.       Dropped an M2 guard (I have M21, my boys all still have HKs) and was pleased to see the base go on alert.    Snipefest followed, took out one BMP and a fair few baddies.    Moved back into the woods then back out again a bit further west to continue the snipefest and take out the second BMP.   Some of the enemy came quite close but no problem taking them out.    There are too many headless chickens running around the base, have them recombine into new, smaller squads, and then do something a bit more constuctive.     You might need to bump up the average rank a little to help reduce temporary fleeing.

Cleared the base no bother, retry (good), called in Bravo, found the field hospital which is correct and inevitable in a well constructed mission like this), Bravo arrived, found ammo crates and stocked up.    There should be a little more radio chatter between you and Bravo - all I got was "OK see you at the junction."

Bravo drove off in a lorry (what happens if it is damaged/destroyed?) and we followed in a UAZ.  Passed them, parked up, ran north through the woods into the next woods and approached the junction from the north west.    I confess I didn't like this bit at all:   we just lay there sniping endless headless chickens, I did a bit of spotting through the scope for my boys but it was all pretty pointless really.   Couple of BMPs turned up but they were too late and were taken out without comeback.   Moved cautiously into the camp, quite a few of the guards had run away a bit towards the sea.    Retry.    

The camp itself was poor:   I like that you have M2s pointing up each road but you should have fewer of them (one each) and more fences.   There should be more tents and debris for an encampment of this size: a hospital almost on its own always looks a bit bare.   There were far too many guards and they were not sufficiently organised:  for example, when it gets down to the last 4 (say) they should all hop into a UAZ and bug out to the north.   I don't like to see spetz natz mixed up with regular infantry, particularly not at an ordinary VCP.    Bravo should start to come up at the end of the battle, following a little radio chatter with us.

Eventually figured out that I had to call Bravo (duh-oh) and they came up and dropped off the ammo crates, which we sorely needed.    However they all stood around aimlessly in safe mode, they should have another waypoint to get them organised and into aware.



/more later
« Last Edit: 10 Jun 2004, 23:10:28 by macguba »
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Offline THobson

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #39 on: 10 Jun 2004, 22:31:04 »
OK the chopper now has an MG.

I have relented a bit on the style of the radio chatter.

I will see what I can do about the psd files.  They are not in the misison directory now so I don't know how they are getting into the mission file.

I gave the chopper another waypoint to go to - that seemed to sort it.

The flares are fired by real officers of course!!  The script gets the officers to fire and then gives them another flare - otherwise it would be 3 shots each only before they run out.  Kill the officers and you stop the flares.  I like the idea of the odd random flare as well even when not on alert.  I will look at that.

I will also look at the behaviour of the Russians in the base and the radio chatter with Bravo.

Keep going...

Bye the way on your previous post you felt it harsh to be spotted so far from the base - how do you know it was people in the base that spotted you?
« Last Edit: 10 Jun 2004, 22:35:07 by THobson »

Offline macguba

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #40 on: 10 Jun 2004, 23:57:47 »
Lol I don't know who spotted us, but I didn't see anybody and my loons didn't report or shoot anybody else.   Are there patrols around there?

Anyway, heading on.    I told Bravo to set off and followed them, trying to count them as we went.   We passed through them and went onto the next wood to come at the base from the north.   I got a clean sight of the M2 gunner at the entrance facing Bravo and, stupidly, couldn't resist the shot.    Pop.   Starting popping off left right and centre after that of course, by boys took out a BMP but a tank shell saw to all three of them at once.   I called Bravo in and tried to take out guards at their end of the base, but the tank got into them and there was a lot of "Alpha we have a man down".   I got on with the popping ... there are a lot of loons to pop.   Add a bit more info from Bravo, telling you where they are.   Change some of the man down texts for variety - I liked that we were told when they were down to half.   You don't have to report every single casualty, its the overall thrust of what's happening to Bravo that's important.

Ran out of ammo, picked up an HK and went down to the base.    Got a message that Bravo was down to 2 then 1 man.    Sneaked in, dropped a couple of loons and a BMP with my RPG.    Went round the back of the hospitals and scuds, picked up a Bizon and some satchels, dropped a couple more loons, got a message saying Bravo was down, planted and blew up the satchels, got a radio call from Bravo saying well done lets get out of here but Bravo is dead and the AA objective isn't ticked.   (The others are.)   Retry.

Well lets hunt around and see if there is a Shilka somewhere.    There is still a tank and a couple of guards wandering around.    Drop some more guards ... the Shilka must be to the south, otherwise I would have seen it by now ... leave by the gate and sure enough, two Shilkas here.      Message saying Bravo have been wiped out again.  

Managed to get myself shot through bad play.   Well its late and I'm tired, maybe more tomorrow.    I can guess the rest - a few more guards and another pair of Shilkas somewhere.

Overall it's a good mission, but I have to say I think it too big.    Three full scale assaults, plus Shilka hunting, is too much to be pleasing.    I would scale it down a little, perhaps remove some Shilkas and/or reduce the garrison at the junction.   (Actually I'd do that anyway.)    At both bases the guard groups need more waypoints after the alert - there was just far too much random running around.   There should be patrols sent to specific locations (e.g. where you are detected, the main gate, the scuds, fuel station, certain parts of the perimeter, etc.) when the alert occurs, rather than having all of them just run around.   Put some on seek and destroy, some on guard, etc.    Have them join up when they get too small - small groups are bad, and groups should always be commanded by at least a corporal and really a sergeant, to prevent them from fleeing too much.  Fewer guards, better placed and with better waypoints would make for a better mission.

Anyway, that's it for now.  Well done.
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2004, 00:46:42 by macguba »
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Offline THobson

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #41 on: 11 Jun 2004, 08:13:27 »
Thanks.  I will have a look at all that tonight/tomorrow.  Especially the radio messages from a dead  Bravo squad and the repeat message that they are dead!  I have used a mixture of Hold, Guard and Seek and Destroy waypoints but I don't have small groups joining up.  I will have a go at that, and also get them to head to some specific locations

I might drop the two reinforcing Shilkas - make them BMPs or T72s, and leave it to just the two Shilkas at the base that you can see in the Intro.  See it is worth watching it.

Yes is is long.  I recon on about 1 1/2  hours.  But I really enjoy it.  Taking the first base and the road junction without loss, then coordinating your attack with Bravo on the main base, fighting to the SCUDs and back again, taking out the shilkas, calling in Bravo's chopper getting into position to cover Bravo's retreat and then getting them to disengage.  Eventually seeing Bravo emerge in ones and twos from the base and head for their chooper is one of the bigest thrills I have ever had from OF.  Maybe it is just me.

Anyway.  Thanks again for your comments.  I will be busy tonight.

Offline macguba

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #42 on: 11 Jun 2004, 12:05:57 »
Lol no its not just you.   Seeing the remains of Bravo emerge would have been great.   I wouldn't have sent them in so early if I hadn't been beta testing, but I wanted to make sure they all died.    

Final bit:  blew a couple of holes in the wall to get to the three shilkas on the seaward side:  the fourth was patrolloing with the tank and I took it out from across the base.   (tick)  The tank came up to my position so I moved away and took him out with rockets.   Immediately there was a message from Bravo calling in Delta:   I'm not sure if the base is clear, I suspect one more loon running around though I haven't seen him for a while.   Maybe not.

Did a test run - yes there are still guards inside the base.  Decided to leave them to it, jumped into a Ural and headed for the evac zone.   Found a damaged tank which took only one missile - he hadn't even seen me.   Ran over a wandering soldier and yes, Bravo has been wiped out again, poor sods.     He was standing by a fire and I now remember something about beacons.

Checked the Briefing - tell us how many beacons there are to light.   Radio messages... there is one about disengage - make it "Bravo disengage" so that it is clear who the message is for.   (The next is on channel 3, not that it really matters but its good practice either to have one radio message per channel, or just use 1 and 2 all the time for all messages.   Not a bit deal, it's just cleaner.)    The other says Bravo dead - RTB but I don't know who that message is to or what it is for.     Never use abbreviations unless they are explained somewhere.   (In all writing, not just in OFP.)    Lots of people will know it means return to base but lots won't.

I lit one fire and quickly ran away from it ... another one started automatically.   I got an evac radio message, which I used.   Tried the others as well and got sidechat text for each.

Chopper came in from a rather unexpected direction - I thought it would be from the sea or the southwest, the insertion direction, and the cutscene kicked in.   Start it a little later, when the chopper is closer, with the music starting and then blackout and blackin.   I hope any remaining enemy are zapped at this point, to prevent accidents.    Cutscene was fine, I like your speeded up time in the intro and outro cutscenes - it works well.  (In the opening one the speed time goes on slightly too long and you can see stars manically screaming across the sky).    This cutscene is too long at the end, fade it out a little earlier.  Oh, and lose the targets behind the hospital parade, they are a nuisance.

7hrs 27 mins
5 gold stars 43,000
all green ticks apart from cover bravo's dep which is still just blob - should be red cross since they all died
137 kills
2 bmps
t80
t72
4 shilka
6 scuds

Difficulty level is always hard to judge but here it is about right.   There are an awful lot of guards to shoot but quite rightly you provide lots of ammo.     Improving their waypoints and so on will make the mission more difficult, so to offset that you should reduce the number a little.    It was fine on my machine (benchmark 5400) but there might be a lag problem for lower end comps.

Re-read my posts above - I may have written some stuff while you were writing.    

That's it.  Whew.
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2004, 12:53:24 by macguba »
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Dubieman

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #43 on: 11 Jun 2004, 19:58:53 »
Two things:

1.) Thobson, did you put in your own particle effects?
Destroyed bmps at the first base smoked with little sparks coming out. This may be my version of the game or 1.96.... I dunno.

2.)Macguba said he had 137 kills, I think that's a little much. After playing you may feel good, but that makes it arcadeish, like Doom where I killed 350 mutants or something. I'm no expert on battles but from books I've read and Snypirs realistic mission, 130 is a little too much for one person to kill. I was thinking around 50 tops. Don't drastically change your mission, but take this into account. ;)

Offline THobson

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Re:A Defensive Strike
« Reply #44 on: 11 Jun 2004, 20:19:52 »
macguba,

Thanks I really appreciate it.  On the Radio I use 1. to instruct Bravo, 2. to instruct Charlie (your chopper) and 3. to instruct Delta (Bravo's chopper).  I will but that in the radio menu itself to help make it clear who is being spoken to.

There are indeed patrols between the drop zone and the first base.  It seems to catch everybody so I will mark them on the map.  The random flares would help here as well.  I will mark the locations of the shilkas on the map also - and loose the fourth.

I don't know how to get rid of the targets - they come with the base!

You suggested I make patrols go to where I have been detected, is there a way to do that other than to use the Guard waypoint?  (I don't want to start cheating with 'knowsabout')

The black blob for Bravo was deliberate, you get a red cross for leaving before they do (if there are any left that is) and a green tick for getting survivors off the island first.  On reflection a red cross for having them wiped out is a good idea.

I am really puzzled by the number of time you were told Bravo were wiped out.  I will do a search of the mission.sqm to see what is going on.

I think you are the only person apart from me to see the end scene and the symmetry with the opening scene.  Let me explain a problem I have with the length of the opening scene.  The mission starts at 00:30, the opening scene starts 16 hours later.  To get back to 00:30 the cutscene time acceleration needs to cover 8 hours, and a lot of that is in the dark.  Advance the time too slowly and the cutscene goes on too long advance too quickly and dusk goes by in a blink.  I will play with the settings to see if I can improve it- also I will try it with an overcast sky so you can't see the stars.  On thinking abut it, now the scene is an Intro it doean't really matter what time it ends - just so long as it is dark.

This is only part of my response to your comments.  I will be working on the mission for a while.  I am not sure I will be able to do all you suggest but I will certainly be able do a lot of it.

Thanks again