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Author Topic: Level design vs. Common sense  (Read 1907 times)

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Offline dmakatra

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Level design vs. Common sense
« on: 30 May 2003, 13:59:26 »
As some of you know I am editing to Half Life and Counter-strike at the moment. A while ago I ran across an article written by the man who made Dust and Dust2(youÂ've probably played counter-strike, right?). The article was about common sense vs. Level Design. Where he brought up for example that your maps must have common sense ín it. For instanse the terrorist team starts in a hallway with only one door. Where did the terrorist come from? And so on. My first thought was that this is only about the Half-Life editor Valve Hammer editor but then I realized common sense is important in every map in every game. Then I started to think what common sense was in OFP. I relized that the most common sense in OFP is in the breifing, wiriting down why we are attacking. When we are attacking and what support I have and so on and so forth. But it isnÂ't just the breifing. Like for example the map is about protecting a spot from an incoming attack. The player should absolutley not come up with a thought like "Oh god! This point is so stupid! It would be a lot better if the sandbags were over there!". Common sense is important!

The article(if u really want to read it even though itÂ's about Valve Hammer Editor):
http://www.johnsto.co.uk/text.php?t=common_sense

Homefry31464

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #1 on: 31 May 2003, 20:42:37 »
Yeah, I agree.  When I download missions off of OFPEC and others, I hate it when I have to do something that has little purpose.  For example, being a BlackOp and having to destroy a fuel depot.  There aren't any shika's around, so why not do a F-15E strike and take it out that way?  Haven't had to worry about stupid stuff like that in a long time though, so the common sense level seems to be getting higher.  

max_killer_payne

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #2 on: 01 Jun 2003, 12:20:38 »
I agree also. Alot of missions never explain why the player is attacking. It just gets a mission and makes the player assume thata there is a war going on. I also hate unrealistic bases,

Commando

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #3 on: 09 Jun 2003, 21:19:57 »
Common sense why? Every mission that is made doesn't have to be made super realistic and really boring to play.   :P
I think it would be fun if people made more special missions that haven't been made before and I think that most missions found on ofpec does have a mission briefing and so on. And the missions are often rated but if you are talking about the beta testing center its usually a whole different story. I would have wanted to send in missions to beta testing center but I usually tend to make them to big so they exeed the file size limit.
I do have one thing to complain on and that is that there's to many infantery fights or spec op stuff, I would like to see more air and armour missions or missions that take more use of the vehicles in ofp and some of the very cool addon stuff out there.

deaddog

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #4 on: 09 Jun 2003, 21:41:59 »
Quote
I do have one thing to complain on and that is that there's to many infantery fights or spec op stuff

Thank you.  I'm glad it's not just me that thinks there are far too many "black ops" mission out there.  They are definately fun but get old.  Almost every first person, military related game out there (Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, etc.) is some kind of black ops game.  Most people like them and I do too.  But one reason I like OFP so much is variety.  Planes, tanks, boats, regular infantry.  It don't get much better.  :)

There is also no need for every mission to have to be part of a "larger" story.  Campaigns are good for that.  Ok, I have such a lack of creativity I can't come up with all that "extra" stuff.   ;D
« Last Edit: 09 Jun 2003, 21:45:46 by deaddog »

Iwesshome

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #5 on: 09 Jun 2003, 21:55:52 »
Deaddog,

This comes back to a conversation I had once before about creating Real Time missions. Let's say for example that I created a mission where you were a Captain for a patrol boat, and your mission was to insert a team or even run supplies...

Who honestly would play it... I might to see what it is like but 75% of people out there want blood and guts and want it quick. I am sorry but I don't think a proper insert into enemy territory and destruction of a camp would be in 10 min.

I would like to see roles like some have mentioned before where you are an engineer or a medic or even a transport chopper pilot or how about a gunner.

asmodeus

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #6 on: 10 Jun 2003, 13:05:45 »
I've actually made a mission where you are a Russian trasnport pilot, flying mainly the MI-2..   However, at the end there's a surprise for those that are able to get there.  (it's not all just transport pilot work)   ;)

I think it's pretty fun.. It'll be in the beta testing board soon.

So maybe the answer is giving the pilot/gunner/driver multiple roles in the mission?  This might keep all those with short attention spans (like me sometimes)   ::)  interested.   ;)

Asmo


Offline XCess

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #7 on: 15 Jun 2003, 21:05:15 »
There's a reaso for all the spec op missions being released: the unit count. If you have a small squad of spec ops the only way the unit count will be high is on the enemy side, but if ou do a combined arms op the both sides will have to be very big; something that has killed dozens of missions I have started making.

deaddog

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #8 on: 15 Jun 2003, 21:27:42 »
There's a reaso for all the spec op missions being released: the unit count.

I disagree.  Most people like spec ops because of the "special" part.  Being an elite operative in an elite unit.  Feeling like you are above the common ground pounder grunt and the things you do are far more important than just lugging a rifle around.

I agree with what you say about the combined arms stuff.  I like having all those units at the same time, too.  All we have to do is go buy the lastest computer  ;D  (I just bought this 2Ghz machine 8 months ago and I want more)  :P

Offline XCess

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #9 on: 16 Jun 2003, 16:25:24 »
How could you prefer the slowness, the silence of a black op mission to the noise, the tracers, the excitement of a combined arms assault. I'd rather play as a private than major, just shoot things and be shot at - experience what most people would in the military.
The only special forces mission I like are with Delta Force or the Rangers, because these units do not go in silently - shoot everything and pull out your objective from the rotting hand of the enemy CO.

Offline LCD

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #10 on: 16 Jun 2003, 16:34:32 »
never played ma or asmos spec ops misions right ?

i know i used 2 finish em w/ more n 150 kills ;D

it depends on da style of da maker :P - in BO misions u get 2 kil more cuz dere r less ppl 2 help u ;D :)

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Offline XCess

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #11 on: 16 Jun 2003, 16:39:22 »
I'm not talking about yoyr kill count, but the "bullets in the air at the same time" count. I jsut love have thousands of bulletes flying around....

Offline LCD

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #12 on: 16 Jun 2003, 16:41:07 »
dats ur prob ?

get dere rambo style n not stealthy - 1000s of bulets wil b in ur dir fast :P

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whitewolf

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Re:Level design vs. Common sense
« Reply #13 on: 17 Jun 2003, 02:43:29 »
1000's of bullets are mad, throw in some appropreate music, and you have your self some fun :)

where as, sneek in shoot some people, blow somthing up, run away in a jet or somthing,  :-\, this a bit pathetic

i personaly like when you are the commander, and you have to move in and take over a town,
i like it because of the stratagy, and fast pased action.

I find that opf is not much of a james bond game, there is something in the gameplay or game engin that wont allow for close up fire fight, somthing to do with when you turn the mouse, the screen direction only turns so fast, where as in q3arina , the faster you turn the mouse the faster the screen direction turns wich = less stratagey, and more on pure skill


neway thats just what i think