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Author Topic: copyright on music  (Read 6107 times)

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Offline dmakatra

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copyright on music
« on: 09 Apr 2003, 21:14:13 »
IÂ'm just asking, but do you guys who use custom music have some kinda deal with the group. If OFPEC host that mission and the mission is illegal, OFPEC is in deep trouble right?

Offline Messiah

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #1 on: 10 Apr 2003, 17:58:56 »
hmmm... well i would be VERY suprised if any of the custom music featured in the missions would have gained permission from their creators...

sefe is the resident law guru... he would be able to answer ya problem most likely.
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asmodeus

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #2 on: 10 Apr 2003, 23:31:49 »
Yeah, I'm no expert in Law either...

But I look at it like this.  A band member or their lawyer (or somebody that knows them) would have to play the mission to find out and then they would have to care about it enough to start a lawsuit..  Not to mention the fact that they are getting free advertising around the world.  (If I heard a good bands' song in OFP and found out most of their songs were good, I'd buy the cd)

So... IMO you are safe as long as you don't use Metallica.   :P  

Asmo

P.S.  If the music industry is really worried about music being sent out for free, I feel they would focus on the Kazaa users before OFP players...   ;)   ;)

Offline Messiah

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #3 on: 11 Apr 2003, 00:09:03 »
hehehe.... but there are so many loop holes in the law, that they cannot actually target kazaa itself - because it is Peer to peer, it means that all the 4 million or so users online at one time are all breaking the law by sharing the files - if you read the kazaa agreement, it does state that you may only share files after gaining consent from their owners etc... and of coyrse, they kow it wont happen - but its very hard to target kazaa, as it is basically 4 million people worldwide  ::)

as for music in missions, yeah, one song in a mission is little... its a pointless waste of time to carry out a law suit.... and in most missions, the music is cut short, edited etc, so it would be very unlikely that the complete vesion of the song was downloaded...

and, i once emailed mute records and asked them if i could use a moby track in a mission - i told them it would be highly edited and shortened, and no money was made etc - gave them full credit etc - they were quite happy to let me use it.

because the reality of how insignificant these missions with music in are compared to other forms of music piracy etc, i dont think there is any danger of OFPEC being sued because of the odd music track...

*crosses fingers*

 ::)
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Offline toadlife

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #4 on: 11 Apr 2003, 00:21:18 »
Yeah just don't use Metallica or Eminem and you should be ok.  :P

In Operation LoJack I used a NIrvana song, but not just any NIrvana song. I used a song called "Blandest". Blandest was recorded back in 1988, and was being considered for a single, but as the story goes, Kurt CObain was embaraseed by his vocals (Download the mission, upbo it and listen), he ordered the mastertapes destroyed.

Apparently his orders were carried out because later when he wanted to inlcude it on "Incesticide" he couldn't because there were no mastertapes!

The song was included on the many demotapes Nirvana sent to the big record companies, so relatively good sounding copies survived, which is how I have a copy of the song.

Even though the song doesn't officially exist, I'm sure record companies still ownt he rights to the recording, so I emailed subpop records asking who owned the rights to the song and if I could use it, but they never replied.

So I said f***it and used the song.
"Whenever you want information on the 'net, don't ask a question; just post a wrong answer." -- Cancer Omega.

Offline Messiah

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #5 on: 11 Apr 2003, 00:31:46 »
well, at least you tried...  ;D
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deaddog

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #6 on: 11 Apr 2003, 01:38:25 »
The copyright system is basically there to prevent someone else from profiting on the music (or whatever).  Since I doubt anyone here is making a dime on their missions, the copyright holder shouldn't have a problem with it.  Besides, the music I have used, I have purchased.  If I can't find something to use from my 100+ cd or dvd collection, then I'm WAY too picky  ;D

Eagle

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #7 on: 16 Apr 2003, 23:45:40 »
I hate to surprise you guys but companies can and will come after you if they find you've infringed their copyright.

In the Sports Car GT(Racing Sim by EA) community, addons have been coming out of the woodwork for years, there are thousands of cars and tracks available for download. Quite awhile ago, someone decided to try and recreate the Transam Race Car series, they painted up a bunch of cars including a Corvette C5R with Tommy Bahama livery. As a result Tommy Bahama issued a cease and desist letter which is no longer viewable right now, but the substance of the thread is still there.

New web site generates fan letter from Tommy Bahama

My advice is tread lightly and don't OVERTLY make the creators of the music known to all. Keep it on the DL, if you know what i mean ;)
« Last Edit: 16 Apr 2003, 23:47:02 by Eagle »

Offline toadlife

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #8 on: 18 Apr 2003, 10:39:46 »
That Tommy Bahama thing was trademark issue, which is a bit different from music copyrights.

http://www.inta.org/basics/tmfaqsD.shtml#7

Companies must go after trademark violators, or they risk losing their trademark. I don't think the same goes for music recordings.

Still, being discreet, and not using "top 40" music is a good idea.  ;)
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Anmac

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #9 on: 22 Apr 2003, 16:17:14 »
Ok, this may not be the "law" but it's the rules I use to make myself feel better.

1.  I am NOT selling the mission or the music
2.  I NEVER use a whole song.  30 seconds is usually enough.
3.  When I went to high school our library had copyright laws up next to the photocopier, which stated you could use up to 10% without permission.
4.  Yes, I'm known as Anmac, but not THAT Anmac.

 8)

PFC_Mike

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #10 on: 05 May 2003, 02:56:50 »
Most RIAA lawyers and lobbyists go through life acting like sticks get shoved up their asses every five minutes. If they had the time, of course they'd sue.

But from a practical standpoint, they won't, so who cares? Second, who are you hurting? Is it really likely that someone will download your mission just so they can avoid buying the CD?

RP

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #11 on: 09 Jun 2003, 09:36:08 »
Laws can be diferent depending on where you are, but (beeing no law expert), i figure it's very much based on common sense. If you're making a profit out of somebody's copyrighted work, expect them to come after you, to get their share. Regarding OFP missions, i really don't think someone would bother to pick on us, considering we're not making money out of it.
Like PFC stated, it would be ridiculous to assume somebody would download a mission instead of buying a CD.
Having said that, i think there's a global industry paranoia, regarding "ilegal copys" of copyrighted material. I remember the days of vinyl recordings and audio cassetes (yes, i am ancient), and nobody giving a sht about us recording tapes, from whatever source we could get our hands on...
Now, with digital recording and all the software at our disposal, we can get what used to be called "first generation" copys of audio CDs, (meaning there's no degradation on the copyed material), and that's when the paranoia started.
Speaking for myself, if i realy like a music CD or a game, or any software that i may have "ilegaly" aquired, i will just go and buy it (yes, i do it all the time). Just the same way i used to do when i used to record some tapes from the radio and liked the music, and headed for the shop to buy it cuz i wanted to have all the goodies that would come with the original.
In the end, it all comes to balance and common sense, no need to go crazy about "is this legal- am i steping on someone's toes-are they going to come after me".
Allthogh like i said, i think there's an intalled industry paranoia, most of the times we can prety much be shure about what side of the law we are walking (regardless of moral issues, cuz that's another matter), if we take the time to give it a thought.
Well, i just felt i would share my thougts on the subject with you, and hope i'm not boring you with my rumbling...
c u arround,

RP.

Offline Sefe

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #12 on: 09 Jun 2003, 12:09:05 »
Laws can be diferent depending on where you are, but (beeing no law expert), i figure it's very much based on common sense.

Well, laws can be different depending on where you are. But as far copyright law is concerned, you can expect that it's very similar in all important countries. The reason is the Berne Convention and other international treaties about copyright protection.

And you're not only breaching copyright if you sell protected work. You're breaching it whenever you use it without the consent of the author. Music, literature, paintings, photographs, films, computer programs etc. are intellectual property. A good rule of thumb is that you should treat intellectual property the same way as you would treat material property. If someone steals your computer, he violates your property right. You don't give a fuck if he wants to sell it or keep it for himself, do you?

I too used to take copyright rather lightly in the past. But whoever has worked hardly a piece of art on or invested a lot of money in a computer program etc. and see his work disrespected or stolen will know how it that feels.

Bottom line: nothing gives you the right to use someone elses's work without his consent. There is nor a legal, neither a moral justification for that. You're simply benefiting from someone else's work without having contributed the slightest bit to it. The one who created the work is the one who owns the work. And the one who owns the work has every right in the world to forbid it's use or to take money for it. If he didn't release his work, you would have no chance of using (or stealing) it. You should rather thank the author than disrespect his rights.

And you need the explicit permission of the author. If he doesn't answer, bad luck. He doesn't have to and if he doesn't he hasn't given you a permission. Take my rule of thumb and compare it to material property. If someone writes you a letter and asks for your permission to use your car, you'd be outraged if he used it with the reason that you didn't answer to his request.

Kaliyuga

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #13 on: 09 Jun 2003, 20:24:29 »
 Well.. this is an interesting subject so I'll just toss my two cents in.. ;D

here in the U.S.  the fourteenth amendment to the constitution guarantees equal protection under the law:

Quote
Equality of protection under the law implies that in the administration of criminal justice no person shall be subject to any greater or different punishment than another in similar circumstances

this is like if you are at a party with 30 friends and everyone is underage but drinking still....   if the police show up  and they do not arrest everyone there.. they can't really arrest anyone (well they can...but good luck getting the charges to stick)

it's like the Kazaa thing... if you don't bust everyone then you're discriminating against the people you do bust....  

you could easy argue... "well if there are 4 million other people doing it then you must have picked me out of the crowd because  I have dark hair and green eyes" ::)


Regarding Copyright its self...  I was always under the impression that the World Intellectual Property Organization  (WIPO)   which is an arm of the UN was responsible for enforcing copyrights....  

but if your nation isn't a part of the UN there's really not much that can be done about it .....


Anmac

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Re:copyright on music
« Reply #14 on: 10 Jun 2003, 06:16:53 »
Lookout for the pot holes.

 ;)