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Author Topic: Red Storm Rising Campain  (Read 6666 times)

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Fishion

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #30 on: 01 Feb 2003, 09:13:33 »
I'm currently making a Tank_shock_wave script (when the tank is fireing, there's a little dust rising around it)
just in case...besides I think those scripts should not be
put into the addon, but rather into the mission (gives you more flexibility)

if anybody needs feedback/help, mail addy is jbaaz@gmx.net

-Fishion

Frosty

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #31 on: 01 Feb 2003, 13:33:16 »
Hey man, c'mon, everybody bleeds ;D! Sometimes it's red (well it's meant to be blue actually), sometimes it's black, but only if you pierce the liver (eww! :P). I can agree about the explosion script, but both are only executed on a random percentage when the condition has been reached. And only armored vehicles and fuel trucks explode. But I can see what you mean, if you really want me to, I can take it out of the EventHandlers. I like the tank shock wave script idea, but I  maybe it  perhaps could be executed through the config.cpp eventhandlers. Heard of the handler 'fired'. Anyway, it's up to you, good idea tho man! ;)

Good news, I'm getting broadband ($100 bucks a month in Australia, and I'm not a made man) so if I can secure a ftp it'll be fast uploads (well, free uploads) all the way man. Handy if the addons get to 50 Mbs big (as they most certainly will)

in regards to the mission, a certain poster has made a request for upcoming missions:
http://www.ofpec.com/yabbse/index.php?board=22;action=display;threadid=5896
I reckon we could grant his wish for more Atmosphere. To achieve that would be to in certain missions, maybe, report how the war is going on a global scale: eg. Our comrades in the North of Germany have struck through into the industrial heartland,
or something like that. You know what I mean. In depth  detail into the war and a very gritty atmosphere (that was the impression I got from the book, especially around the bridge with the shelled out civie cars)

Well, that was my rant for this evening. Good night gentlement, don't let the BMPs bite/

BTW when I was talking bout the FTP i meant using it to upload betas so the other team members can use eg. the addons for the mission makers.

And Abomb, I also hope we can really wow BIS.
« Last Edit: 01 Feb 2003, 13:41:31 by Frosty »

Fishion

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #32 on: 01 Feb 2003, 14:41:59 »
Tank Shock dust script is BETA:
http://www.ofpec.com/yabbse/index.php?board=27;action=display;threadid=5897

 ;D

What I did mean with the addons is this:
Using extensivly the drop command can produce quite
a load on a computer, specially if you have a large battle
running.
It also gives other used less flexibility when using the
addons you make. Another way would be to make two version of the addons, one with drop-scripts the other
without (can go into the same pbo :) )

As to campaigns and athmosphere:
I think when trying to make a convincing picture of what
is going on in war or better how the players character would feel in a war, it is important to feed him only certain informations, and not everything.
for example:
start -  the player gets told by his commander something has happened (get his orders), but no details except that NATO has lost communications with quite alot installations. You do as you are told...and on your way you see a few civilians on the run. Slowly you get the whole picture. As a soldier you usually don't get any information (because nobody cares to tell you whats going on around you). Leave him a bit guessing.
That also means that we cannot "jump" from one person to another during the campaign, specially not from NATO to Russian etc.
My idea would be to actually make more campaigns (if necessary...better stick to KISS and start out with one)
one for each important character. The Tank guy, maybe an infantry guy, and remember that guy in Island?
The campaigns would be rather short then, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Sever differnt angles to the same situation.

-Fishion

Frosty

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #33 on: 02 Feb 2003, 00:17:07 »
Indeed yes, the drop command can create quite a strain on the computer, especially with the fire effects. I shall include the scripts with the addon, But they can only be executed by the mssion designer (eg. this exec "rsr_sov\scripts\bleeding.sqs"

TheAbomb12

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #34 on: 02 Feb 2003, 02:04:04 »
In refernece to the atmosphere...thats exactly what i was thinking. I have hd several ideas on how to portray certain feelings Chew on this...

Game start for WEST-

fade in of satilite images being projected on the screen, on them are several bid fires of russias main oil ref. (im thinking of useing CAT fires napalm), the cameras shift to several american analysts, they talk, blah blah blah (going to work out dialouges latter). Then there is the news broadcast the bomb that killed the children (i can't remember where that was right now) and russia states that germany (blamed for bombings) will pay some how Game shifts to NATO losing communications, obviously there is some sort of tension that should be felt. When the war finally breaks out the WEST side should be constantly on the run. In the early parts the WEST will fight, run, regroup, rinse and repeat. But i think most of the atmostsphere for the west will come from the civilians, becasue they are the ones losing there homes.... :'(

Fishion

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #35 on: 02 Feb 2003, 09:31:17 »
Another thing that is very important IMO,
is that a normal soldier does not have the overview
of the situation a general has, because simply he
doesn't get all the imformation.
For Example, if you are in an Infatry Squad, it frequently happens that you stop, keep low, look for the enemy and wonder why the F*** you are sitting here, and what is going on. Of course this was just on a small scale...think of that in a bit bigger scale.

Another thing Civilians. I think this would also be quite an important thing. By the speed of that war, you'll always have a few civilians in the town etc. a few burned out cars (I'm afraid we can't use the damage modells by BIS because they simply suck)...and alot of refugees.
So I'd say what we also need are:
Refugee camps, civi cars, civilians heading west in long trails...

Oh btw, I didn't remember the book all that well, but which river did they russians get stuck?
I'm asking in case you need a few pictures. Fulda is about 1 hour away from my home, and for the Rhein its 15 minutes...

and I think we should start thinking about how to make the large scale battles (the last think I saw by Abomb was unplayable for me)

-Fishion

TheAbomb12

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #36 on: 02 Feb 2003, 19:27:01 »
  ;D lol. I just quickly put that mission together. It's not yet what I want, but it's a rough sketch. However, I like the pace the battle takes, but I wish we could find a way to lengthen the battle without having to add too many units or give one side too many tanks. Im sure we can figure it out. :)

As for dealing with information, I think that should be limited to sides. For instance, WEST knows that their supplies are low but don't know the size of the russian divisions. Of course they might be given intel about the approx. size but you can never fully depend on intel

Fishion

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #37 on: 03 Feb 2003, 00:29:47 »
Quote
As for dealing with information, I think that should be limited to sides. For instance, WEST knows that their supplies are low but don't know the size of the russian divisions. Of course they might be given intel about the approx. size but you can never fully depend on intel

Well, yes and no...even giving to much away about what you sides knows would give away tension and athmosphere. Again, the Tank Commander doesn't know what a general does know. Of course knowing too much about the russians is unrealistic...


Quote
but I wish we could find a way to lengthen the battle without having to add too many units or give one side too many tanks. Im sure we can figure it out.

I have a rough scetch of that somewhere above:
We can create units, and probably simulate a fight (the player can't see) in a more abstract way, only to make the results visual when the player is theoretically able to see them.
Let's say we have a visibility range of 800 meter,
so we have a bubble with a diameter of about 1800 meter around the player in which everything really takes place. The rest well doesn't really exists, only when the player walks there, then it will be placed.

It's possible I experimented with a scripting system to do just that (for a different more global purpose).
Theoretically you could have the whole frontline that way (provided the "Island" is large enough). On the other hand this will mean you can't build a mission anymore the way you normally build missions but it's mostly involves scripting...
oh and you are limited to 63 groups per side at any given time.
In two weeks I have a little time, maybe if you guys have worked out what you need I could work on the scripting system again (now that we have functions it's going to be a bit easier).

Another way to do it, is to use a Tank as a placeholder for a bigger group of tanks (so instead of having 12vs12 tanks, you have 1vs1 tank). Based on how the tanks get dammaged etc. you could use this as an simulation on how the battle went for the 12 tank group, and destroy them accordingly when the player could see them...
I might also add all this won't work in Multiplayer

a remark to our Addon guy:
I know someone made 1 AI tank Addon with the official tank, any chance we could get that? (why because the weak point of the scripting systems are the waypoints, I can create them...so having a group with 12 tanks is easier to handle than 3 with 4 tanks)

-Fishion

Jakerod

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #38 on: 03 Feb 2003, 01:53:44 »
This may be what you are talking about above: But this could be a cool thing to do: Have the player command 12 tanks. Have the player have 12 guys in his group using moveincommander put one guy as commander in each tank. Then use moveingunner and moveindriver to put in other guys. That way your men command each tank and can order the others around. Just a thought.

TheAbomb12

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #39 on: 03 Feb 2003, 03:15:24 »
I used to have that addon (before my comp crashed). It would be nice to have tanks with only 1 AI.but having 12 tanks in a group is somewhat unrealistic, a tank platoon is 4 tanks including a tank commander.

Again coming back to intel, there are always some sort of info that gets down to tank comm. (mabye not on russians but Definitly on Americans side) and like I said, Intel isnt always reliable and shouldn't be depended on, we could toy around with that idea ;)

Fishion, I like your idea of 1v1 tanks, but I don't think it would be wise to do this with all tanks. I was thinking to employ this to the Russian tanks more, say 3/4 of entire force, and the the WEST, problay 1/2. This should give west the chance of surviving longer since they target more freely.

Oh yeah, is it possible to have a script that "creates" units in game, or have a group under civi.'s side then move to east's side as reinforcments (thus saving room for the 63 units per side and making sure not active too soon)
« Last Edit: 03 Feb 2003, 03:18:45 by TheAbomb12 »

Fishion

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #40 on: 03 Feb 2003, 11:27:03 »
Ahhh actually I should clarify what I did mean with the 1vs1 concept:

the 1vs1 battle is simply to simulate the battle the player can't see.
If a tank gets kill you spawn another one next to him, but there are other ways to do that.

Main point is, to use the the OFP engine to simulate a much larger battle in more abstract way, if the player can't see it.
How to do that realisticly is up for discussion, but IMO if wanting to have alarge battle, we need to lower the AI and Vehicles
used, if we want to add some special stuff (like burning things). And we need to lower them drastically considering that those battles
have in excess of 1000 tanks involved (on a realistic scale).

Another idea would be just to use 1 tank per group as a place holder (you need someone to know the waypoint...it's a technical issue)
and where the tank group currently is, without having anything fireing, and calculate the rest.

Question to Frosty: can you make a unit that can move (like a tank) without weapons that has 1 AI and uses no polys (is invisible)?
That would be perfect that way the engine doesn't have to worry about drawing them on sceen.
When the player starts to see the group, you simply start replacing the one "dummy" with the real tanks in formation...

Anyhow, do we already have concept on the storyline? And/or mission story line.
I.e. how many missions, what is each mission about and what happens.
How many large battle missions do we have?

-Fishion

TheAbomb12

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #41 on: 04 Feb 2003, 01:51:51 »
Sounds good-

Im going to draft up a storyline/mission concept by the end on next week (say next sat.). Im going to tediously follow and read over the book for little details and then fill in the blanks on the rest.

For now can you guy's draft up a mock mission (just make up anything) implementing what you are talking about and perhaps I (we) can see just how far we can push this technique.

ntstlkr

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #42 on: 05 Feb 2003, 22:25:25 »
Cheers All,
Busier than the proverbial one legged man in the a## kicking contest, but I've put together some notes and stuff to read over and mull about.

More forthcoming when I get a break, really have to reach out to fishion.

Catch you guys when I get a chance.


ntstlkr

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #43 on: 05 Feb 2003, 22:26:25 »
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ntstlkr

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Re:Red Storm Rising Campain
« Reply #44 on: 05 Feb 2003, 22:26:59 »
ditto...