(Review Completed) [SP/QG] Sabotage

[savedbygrace]

Don't get it, to clever for me...

Well, nevermind then. I must be mistaken.

Very glad to see a quick update and am looking forward to diving in and offering some more feedback.

[CH]

I've added a few objects and sounds to the mission v0.93. Nothing that affects game play but hopefully it will add some atmosphere. Still working on the intro.

Please enjoy!

[CH]

Hello again,

I've just uploaded v0.94. The short intro is now complete and I must say it turned out to be better than expected. One of the things I am a little proud of is that I've kept the random start pos for the player and used it as a "base" for camera movements. Since I now have implemented all of the ideas that I got from reading the first test reports I eagerly awaits any comments regarding the changes I've made since v0.91.

[NightJay0044]

Attention CH~
   In short this was a great spec ops mission.

   Overview:

  Fantastic, could not ask for more.   .

    Intro:
   Nice little intro there, nothing to fancy but it'll do.

   Mission:
  This mission was pretty hard. Stealthy movement was the key for the whole theme or else your team would face the entire army. It was difficult. Playablity was great because it allows you to be in suspence and unpredictability as you've mentioned I believe.

  All objectives ticked just fine. Mission ended cleanly..

  Music:
   Music was a good touch too.

  Overall:
 This was a great mission for a spec ops. Looks to be ready by me..

 At Best,
NightJay

[schuler]

Ok lets see what changes we have!
Nice pic and overview
Intro
 is very good for a short one
briefing
Well laid out. Clear. Notes are good, lots of info there instead of the front page of the briefing. That leaves room for all the objectives in one page in the briefing.

Mission
Nice old building setpos by the hill.
Well I learned not to mess with that UAZ first of all. I will try the game with totally steath as long as possible, stay with silent weapons!!! Left the m24. gear is good for this mission!
Ok I coulnt help the stealth deal, so I assaulted the 3 men coming from the south. We couldn't drop them quickly enough and got a flare. I like the sound affect you have there.
3rd reload. I will try and stick with stealth this time. Or get closer and see if I can take them 3 guys out before they pump a flare into the air. I don't particularly like them on my fank.  Note: this mission has my attention, I am also watching the guys at the tent with the fire and that UAZ so it doesn't drop off some guys somewhere. I don't want another mi17 in the air again either!
Well I couldn't help it again lol but I got the 3 guys before they let a flare go.
Sneak up to the air strip kill the guy by the truck always get a flare, then all hell brakes lose. Lost at to where to go or how to kill the rest of the enemy. Way too many of them.
Lost interest after repeated retrys
I shouldn't have to ask this but.
Any hints?

[CH]

This mission was pretty hard.

Lost interest after repeated retrys

Thank you both NightJay0044 and schuler for the two latest test reports. By reading them I have come to the conclusion that the mission is a little bit to hard. I'm working on an updated version which I think is more player friendly. I will upload it very soon since the changes are very easy to implement. I'm just going to play it myself a couple of times to reduce the risk that I will waste your time with things I can find out on my own.

Any hints?

It's hard to give any hints that will work each time you play the mission since all targets and all units have random positions and the player has been given the possibility to carry both suppressed and unsuppressed weapons. However I haven't yet discovered a random setting that will make it impossible to complete the mission. (but maybe you have schuler).

As I see it, the mission have two phases, stealth and speed. In the stealth phase you should locate all three targets. The pilots may be hiding inside one of the buildings and would therefore be impossible to see but you should at least try to determine how difficult it will be to enter the village. Then it's up to you to decide which targets to attack. I do not recommend going after all three targets (unless your last name is Rambo) in fact I recommend going after the two easiest targets.

Which targets that are easy may vary from time to time, but if the fuel depot or the helos are located far from the camp their guards can be eliminated and charges planted without alerting the camp. If you successfully plant charges without alerting the camp set the timer (2-4min) so that you have time to get in position for your next target without having to deal with reinforcements or anyone else that will be alerted by a big explosion. Another possibility is that you are able to see the pilots thru the scope of your M24, then it may be possible to take them out from a position near the fuel depot or the helos so that you can plant the charges quickly once the enemy is alerted. If all of the targets you're going after are located close to one another and the camp, you might think the mission would be to hard. But this is not necessarily true. I've found the team members to be very efficient against camp soldiers at about 200m range. So it is possible to mount a direct assault on the camp as long as you can reach your objectives quickly once the camp threat has been eliminated, and this is possible when the targets are located close to one another. As you can see there are many "but's" and "if's" but all of the scenarios have some things in common.

1.) Get situational awareness
2.) Make a plan, choose your targets carefully
3.) Prevent the enemy from being alerted until you are ready (and on your way out)
4.) Push, push, push

Once you leave the stealth phase (1-3) "the dice have been thrown" and it's all about run and gun (4). Avoid the reinforcements at all costs. They are better equipped and have a higher skill setting than the regular soldiers. Make sure that your team members AI don't get in the way by giving them an easy path to follow and don't let them get caught up in unnecessary fights. Do not engage anyone unless you have to. Get back to your boat as soon as possible.

I don't know if these hints are helpful to you schuler? Perhaps NightJay0044 have some helpful insights he could share?? I have created a mission which I only have limited control over so it have been very interesting for me to read the test reports. Stay tuned for the next version...

(I would also like to take the opportunity to let you know that I really appreciated your last post at the thread for "OFPEC campaign mission #3" schuler   )

[schuler]

It will be neat to see what you come up with.
As far as making a plan with the soldiers by the camp I did everything I could to set the charges for the heli's first without being detected. My approach was from the very south of the air stripe. I tried various different stealth and assault tactics. Mostly stealth, but the problem was I had no plan to get the pilots without alerting the camp guys. This is where I got confused as to what to do or try.
[Watch what you do with west detected by]
I would like to see the helis less guarded but with the alarm to be set off if you get to clumsy.
you can also make the heli patrol squad run their patrol away from the helis with enough time to kill the one guard by the truck and plant the two charges (saving one for the camp) it would be nice to leer some of the camp guys into a satchel charge by also make it easy enough for the player that doent think of that idea.  That way the camp is still a threat and the player has still the thought (make a plan) of getting to the pilots. I have not unpbo'd your file yet.  
I would like to see the player have less enemy to deal with and then a nice fight with the gunmen on roofs of buildings then be able to enter town and hunt down the pilots.
in other word the ability to remain stealthy enough to get close to town and plug some of the guys on the roof tops and ground, and maybe pick up an ak 47 for a small urban battle. then evac after finding the pilots. (just a suggestion)
if savedbygrace has unpbo's it, he might have some more suggestions.
[Also make it so no one will ask for hints]

cheers schuler

[savedbygrace]

Gave this one a go yesterday as well...
The Intro was okay I suppose, although I have never been a fan of the whip around camera.
I liked the setvelocity to the boat during the intro(without motor noise) and it would have been nice to see you do the same at mission start..meaning, set the boat close enough and add just enough setvelocity to get it to shore without the player having to turn it on. Thats a good setup and indication that stealth is necessary.

MIssion
Wow, I could see the improvements from the boat...the bombed out abandoned structures brought a background story to the island believe it or not as it caused me to wonder what had happened here before that they were in their present state.

More movement around the map where it counts such as near the important locations and not so much drifting around in the dark plains of night. A looping jeep patrol   I climbed to high ground and located all targets with the exception of the pilots on fiesta. Determined my course of action, left my guys there on the ridge to keep lookout and circled south to spike the feul dump first. Was successful in eliminating the 2 guards there quick enough to prevent a flare. I planted the charge, avoided the roving jeep, and made my way to the edge of the airfield. I was very careful to stay prone and monitor the patrol patterns of all foot traffic. Somehow, a flare goes and so I go into action....I take out all immediate threats within 100 meters, swing my gun around and progressively pick off all responding infantry. Quickly run the remaining 50 meters to the nearest chopper, check my flanks and rear again, do a quick check again before planting the charge. repeat similar tactics on the second chopper. A responding MI17 has now arrived on scene and is humming around up top, landing occasionally and then lifting off again to fly around some more. (Didn't know what that was about unless he was dropping men off rather than parachute them.) I layed low to evade the patrol jeep and then humped it south to the shoreline, setoff the satchels and then moved through the underbrush of the rolling plains, enaged some lone soldiers, setoff the fuel dump as its action reappeared, and continued toward the high ground having to engage as I moved. My men had gotten snuck up on by a spetz team and was wiped out, I had to finish off the last lingering spetz in the area before trying to move into the village. Getting into the city is tough, especially after the island is on alert. Taking out the rooftop guys is easy enough as is the patrols moving in and out of the alleys but those that are unseen make it hard to clear that village alone.
The chopper coming out of no where so quickly, is uncool and unexplained and removing it may lower the difficulty altogether because I think it is letting out troops that you can't keep track of. At least when you study the area from high ground you can get an approximation count of the numbers your up against. And then determine your strategy from there.
I would leave the chopper as a responder BUT I would make it more of a time penalty then anything. Meaning once the player is discovered, allow him a specific amount of time to complete the job before reinforcements arrive...this would also make it seem like they are coming from another place. So If I am able to get all three targets spiked and then maneuver close to the village before setting them off, I should have enough time to clear the town before reinforcements can arrive.

Regarding the pilots...it may help if you make one stationary and have one pace in and out of cover to reveal their position, making it easier to determine an approach lane. I could have swore I circled the village twice before I spotted them.

It is tougher but at the same time, more immersive. Good work so far.

[schuler]

@SBG did you use the M24 then? i didnt have the fire power with the silenced M4

[savedbygrace]

Yes I used the M4. I've actually gotten use to its weakness by increasing my shotburst to two and aiming above the target, it's pretty effective in killing them quick. If I miss, the shots aren't heard and I can adjust according to dust spurt or metal to concrete spark.

[CH]

Hello,

I've just uploaded v0.95 in response to your comments.
There are a three key parameters that I think have great impact on game play and the first two have been mentioned in resent posts.

1.) Time between detection and the arrival of reinforcements
2.) Number of enemies
3.) Time between detection and flare launch

In this version (0.95) I've adjusted these key parameters so that I can play the mission without saving more than once, which I think gives the mission a nice flow. All feedback is welcome but I think getting these values right should have a high priority, so please let me know if and how you think they should be changed.

Another thing I would like some feedback on is the briefing. Is it clear that you can accomplish the mission without destroying/killing all three target groups? Everyone seems to be going for complete destruction.

...and some other things

It will be neat to see what you come up with.

I hope you don't get disappointed since I've only made minor changes

As far as making a plan with the soldiers by the camp I did everything I could ...

I hope I didn't offend you. It's obvious that you know far more about ArmA than me, but I couldn't come up with anything better.

I would like to see the player have less enemy to deal with ...

In this version (0.95) many units have a much lower probability of presence.

... remain stealthy enough to get close to town ...

When I tested this version (0.95) I got within 200m from the MG-nest undetected without my team members

I have not unpbo'd your file yet. 

If you, or anyone else for that matter, do this. Please keep in mind that this is my first mission so some things might look a little bit strange.

... set the boat close enough and add just enough setvelocity to get it to shore without the player having to turn it on.

It's definitely a good idea but I think it will be hard to combine with the random start pos that I use for this mission. I know that most players won't notice the randomness, but since I've played this mission a hundred times I need some variation or else I will get bored.

Didn't know what that was about unless he was dropping men off rather than parachute them.

I don't have anything to back it up, but to me, parachuting from a helo at low altitude, in this type of mission, looked a little strange (because I haven't seen it in a Hollywood movie probably). So the helo lands at three different locations, dropping off men, to quickly establish a presence all over the island. It's my interpretation of  "realism".

I would leave the chopper as a responder BUT I would make it more of a time penalty then anything.

Done!

...it may help if you make one stationary and have one pace in and out of cover to reveal their position, making it easier to determine an approach lane. I could have swore I circled the village twice before I spotted them.

Hopefully the extra time will make it easier in this version (0.95) When I play the mission I only go after the pilots if I can locate them. That's one of the reasons way I made the mission so that you don't have to reach all objectives.


Once again, thank you all for helping me with this mission! 

[savedbygrace]

I must admit that I liked seeing the chopper land to drop units rather than paradrop them myself, but perhaps one drop in the center of the island with three groups disembarking which branch out into different directions to sweep the island while the chopper climbs to low altitude to begin aerial recon for spotting.

Random starts? I thought I noticed the bouy's absence during one attempt..I just didn't pay attention to where I was being inserted.

[schuler]

Trying first ver again, I can see why NJay and savedbygrace got through the mission and I didn't the first time, I got dealt bad random cards. Yes very random men and objects. You have to be careful with randoms,  sometimes the game decides to put a lot of units out, its not to be used for too many units, you can end up with one really hard game then one really easy game.
I like the way the campfire goes out and the guys start running, good thinking. I played a couple of times and theres even a group of guys with a tent near the ‘highest point' at the beginning of the game and 4 guys on patrol by the hill. The next time I loaded the game no one was around and I made it to the helis without seeing a soul.
Anyways I will report back after a look at the new vers.

[CH]

Just added some runway lights (v 0.96). I think I'm done with this mission. I will leave it here for a week or two and then rename it to v 1.00 if I or anyone else don't discover any problems.

[savedbygrace]

Is that all you have updated?(The runway lights) I'll test it again within the next day or two and get back with more feedback if anything is different. If not, it may very well be ready for review.