Advertisement

Author Topic: Customizable Complete Enemy Island?  (Read 1897 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

maxlgeb

  • Guest
Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« on: 29 Aug 2003, 17:25:45 »
Hello,
I think it would be great to have a mission where you can start at different locations with different equipment/team and have to deal with an whole realistic organized occupied island with patrols, AA, Forts etc... I think, a lot of Computers are now by far fast enough to handle this.
The player could act like a Partisan group, steeling equipment etc.... You could play for days with one mission. For sure, this cannot be the same as a campaign but you could try to hold out for a certain period of time, conquering ammo, hiding, starting small attacks etc..
I tried something like this in the editor, but only static and not customizable. I can't imagine if this is possible to let the enemy AI react on the players presence. I think, in this point it would be already enough fun to tell some enemy units, when the player has been spotted, and where he is. Maybe this could be something for the chain of command Engine?

Homefry31464

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #1 on: 29 Aug 2003, 23:50:06 »
Nah, I don't think you have to use the CoC engine.  Set the units, give them and their waypoints placement radius higher.  Then, set a trigger in a certain area, have it west activate, then detected by east.  Set the radius rather large, make it a switch trigger.  Make their last waypoint a guard waypoint.  Then, at the cycle waypoint, sync it with the trigger.  Do this for a number of patrols, and they will counter attack in the area of where you attacked.  That way, patrols in certain areas in the trigger that you sync'd to their cycle waypoint react.  Remember to have different triggers in certain areas connected to the groups in that area.  Here:


Trigger 1 (Located southwest part of island)
Trigger 2(Located in the center of the island)
Trigger 3(Located at the top of the island)
All triggers have x and y settings of 2000, activated by west detected by east


Group 1: (On a patrol, top of the island)
wayp1 move (Set to safe)
wayp2 move
wayp3 move
wayp4 move
wayp5 move
wayp6 cycle (placed near first waypoint, so they patrol continuously.  Sync'd with trigger1.
wayp7 guard(set to aware and speed to full)

Group 2: (On a patrol, middle of the island)
wayp1 move (Set to safe)
wayp2 move
wayp3 move
wayp4 move
wayp5 move
wayp6 cycle (placed near first waypoint, so they patrol continuously.  Sync'd with trigger2.
wayp7 guard(set to aware and speed to full)

You get the idea.  You can change some settings of course, just how I do patrols. Perhaps there is a easier way. Remember to set the placement radius so it is a little random each time, which helps with replayability.

Jakerod

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #2 on: 30 Aug 2003, 01:20:22 »
I tryed something like this on nogova using just a 4th of the island probably less.  It didnt work too well it was really laggy at the beginning but got a less laggy. The cool part was it was competely random u never knew when a BMP would come at you. One time after i ambushed a convoy 4 BMPs came over the hill and i was out of RPGs. Problem was though way too laggy. May work on Everon, Malde, Trinity, Cadov or Kolgujev though.

Johan_D

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #3 on: 31 Aug 2003, 13:46:56 »
If your PC is fast enough, a lot can be done in this way. You could start with the infrastructure of a just occupied island. A lot of patrols, heli's who fly in with new troops, truck movements, tanks who drive around in a collumn to a fortified place, and so on.
Add here and there civilians to make it more alive.
If you add enough of them, be sure that they all cycle at their waypoints, so there will be never a dull moment.
In the mountains you can add a place with resistance, but keep them there, otherwise they will be slaughtered immediatly with the overwhelming manpower of the occupying forces.
The mission goals are legio.. you can just sneak around and assinate the patrols, or try to make it to the resistance guys.. (maybe make them move aroudn a bit so they are harder to find), you can add a few generals and try to assin them.. possibilities enough.
You can add an evac point where a chopper may come to get you..
The result would be an complete immersive expirience, and playable for days instead of hours.

I tried something simpler, with many soldier (hundreds) and tanks, choppers, bmp's etc, and with my AMD2200xt I didnt have any lag. Perhaps due the scriptless thing of this it isnt that bad.

Hmm, I gonna set up something for my self now.. time to have fun!

Johan

Johan_D

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #4 on: 31 Aug 2003, 18:32:30 »
Actually, I did made a start.. using only default items/soldiers to make it easy on the add ons.
The objectives are not yet set, but I used Skye Island, added soldiers to the harbour base, used the airfield to bring in soldiers and so.
Some objectives as playing a  black ops are possible: currently you can find Guba.. and try to kill him, some scuds are moving to a certain place, altough they dont do anything yet, you can try to sneak in and blow them up.
Resistance group is wandering around the island now, and numerous patrols. All russian.. heheh
Now, if you take your time, and see for example an UAZ drive by, he probably comes back later. With patience one can ambush them.
The nice thing of random placed waypoints is that you knever know where patrols show up.

Work in progress..

Johan

PS: All scriptless.. easy to make, still fun, absolute walking freedom, and no lag here.

Homefry31464

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #5 on: 31 Aug 2003, 22:35:12 »
If you could, put the file here if it is under 50k and use the script to delete dead bodies.

Semith

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #6 on: 01 Sep 2003, 06:00:39 »
I made what I call civiworld, where all of nogova was inhabited by civilians that had waypoints.  For example, a guy would get into a car, drive to a different town, pick up his girlfriend, drive back home, go into a building together, go back to the car and drive to a beach or the mountains, drive somewhere else, etc. until he dropped her off and went home, only to cycle and repeat.  Some people go to work, some drive trucks and shuttle between different locations, etc.  Other civilians spend most of their time in a town talking or walking...

This isn't finished, I intend to make some of the idle civies react to things with triggers and scripts.  I intend to use this level as a base to design other missions with.

When making missions with hostile forces, don't forget about the "Guard" waypoint.  Units on this waypoint will react to enemy at a nearby location.  For example, a BMP with a guard waypoint in a camp will react to an attack on a nearby town.  The computer will take into account speed, distance, firepower, and enemy size when selecting what groups to react.  If you have a BMP, a tank, and infantry squad all in the same place with guard waypoints, the tank will most likely be sent to react because of the higher firepower and speed than the others.  If the soviets detect a few soldiers, the computer will probably select the BMP and keep the tank back to react to a stronger attack.  The infantry squad will react to nearer attacks, with assistance from the armor.

Also, with my squad, the 101st, we have a few maps that have an entire island covered with soviets.  It allowed us flexability and forced us to follow standard operation procedure (recon, planning, executing, extracting, debrief).  We would send out combat patrols to find hidden camps, who would report back.  Officers would plan an attack and a quick raid would be executed.  If everything went right, we would extract within 10 mins of contact and return to the safezone.  Sometimes officers would challenge themselves by running 2 groups in different parts of the island.  Helo pilots were kept busy, inserting and extracting recon teams and assault squads, tracking convoys, reporting AA presence, etc. and were rarely allowed a break.  There were few objectives on the islands, allowing continuous operation and forcing leaders to reconnoiter their own objectives and establish missions.

Bah, enough rant.  I provided enough reading material for several trips to the pot.   ;)

Homefry31464

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #7 on: 02 Sep 2003, 01:05:57 »
Can you attach the file here?  I would like to use it.

Semith

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #8 on: 06 Sep 2003, 08:38:09 »
Uh, maybe.  It isn't quite done yet.  I could attach the old one but it is not on this computer.  

Commando

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #9 on: 15 Sep 2003, 11:01:55 »
Yeah it would be very cool if you put the new or the old file up  :) I want to try to make my own imense world on nogova or maybe panzerfaust island where im going to make my spy coop 2 mission but time will tell. Im going to see if im going to be able to make a plane take of and fly around some parts of the island and then Land and repeat everything again.

Semith

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #10 on: 21 Sep 2003, 05:50:40 »
I am having many computer problems right now.  The computer it is on cannot connect to the internet just yet.  The mission itself is far from finished, and there are many problems with it.  It might be quicker to create your own version.  Here is what I did:

Step 1:  First, I placed everything I was going to use in one location (the airfield, I think).  Basicly, I made a section of empty vehicles and a section of people.  For example, I would make a row of blue cars, a row of red ones, a row of trucks, of bikes, of motorcycles, etc., all of which are empty.  I then did the same thing with people.  A few men, a few men2, a few men3, etc.  Be careful not to have 63 or whatever groups with ten people in each.  I had only one or two in each group, so that I could script them as individuals.

Step 2:  Next, I randomly selected a few vehicles and people and formed small clusters, which I would then drag and place in the general vicinity of a town.  I would try to make these clusters of apropriate size compared to where they were placed (Petrovich had a larger group than Nelekov).  Some clusters were less random.  For example, tractors and trucks ended up starting near farms while cars ended up mostly in towns.  I also placed the three buses near that industrial site by the airport.

Step 3:  Now, look at each town and position the vehicles at different angles parked in different places (parking lots, next to buildings, etc.  Sread them out, make them seem more random in location.  You can do the same with the civilians, but not to the same extreme (they will be moved around almost imediately by waypoints).  I have not completed this step on civiworld.

Step 4:  Waypoints and scripting time.  This requires more attention and is much more tedious than the other steps.  This does, however, allow you to express creativity.  Pick an individual and give him something to do for the day.  Some people can mainly sit and chat within their own town, with scripts this can end up very believable, but it is best to have some traveling around.  Go around the map and work out waypoints person by person.  Some are out on business, others have fun.  Here are some examples:  

Some of the farmers would drive around in tractors, others in trucks.  The trucks would shuttle between the farms and the markets in the towns or the docks.  One man gets into a car and drives to the airport, gets into a plane, and flys around for a while, waypoints randomized throughout the island, until he lands and goes home, to repeat the process later.  Some have more simple lives, driving from home to an office building to stand around for a few hours (you could place a dozen waypoints to different parts of the building instead) until he gets back into the car to go home.  Interaction is good, if you can arrange it.  An already mentioned example would be the guy picking up a girlfriend in a different town and going on a picnic in the north.  They don't need to be in the same group, just have load, and transport unload waypoints with sync lines.
Whatever you do, every person should be on a cycle.  Certain waypoint cycles can last an hour while others only a few mins.
Civiworld doesn't have this step complete either.

Step 5: Don't forget to script things.  For example, when the pilot gets into his plane, make him globalchat request for takeoff.  Follow up with clearance being given a few seconds later.  Same thing for when he gets to his final flying waypoints.  Also, if you intend to have an enemy invasion, an occupying force, or a battle, you should script an overall civilian reaction.  If you don't want to script (or know how), you need triggers.  In general, place a trigger near a town that is set to activate when the east is detected by the civilians  After cycle waypoints, have a waypoint that would be the reaction of the civilian to enemy presence (usually, moving into buildings or fleeing).  Then, use the syncronize tool to link the trigger to the cycle waypoint.  So, when the east enter the circle determined by the triggers, the civilians will act apropriately.  Also, you can add more waypoints and syncronize them with a trigger that detects if the east are not present, for when the enemy dies or moves on, and cycle the civilian waypoints to one of their first and they will start their routines over.

Ah, that is a LOT of information.  I really hope it helps, I don't think I can get access to civiworld for a long time.

Semith

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #11 on: 21 Sep 2003, 05:55:10 »
Oh, and you might want to try this on a small portion of the island first.  If you have a low-end machine, it will be overwhelmed with the number of characters and movements.  Unless the player can move around by air, there isn't much of a need for a large part of the island to be animated.  You might be able to get away with less than half of Nogova, even with aircraft.  However, an abundance of empty vehicles ensures a ride home for a downed pilot.

Offline CrashDome

  • Members
  • *
    • Sinews of War
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #12 on: 30 Sep 2003, 06:59:16 »
Just a note: I have made missions similar. Most were scripted using little white dots (markers) that no one could see on the map and each unit randomly picked a new one and when they arrived went to another. It worke well, but I found that lag starts at about 100 units per ghz (ROUGH estimate). I had a dedicated server that was a 1.33ghz and at 100 people ran at about 30-35 fps and dropped to about 15fps at 200 units. 150 was a pressured 20-22 fps.

I upgraded to a 2ghz w/ 512 DDR and 150 units went back up to 40fps. I believe 200 would have dropped it back down to 30-35 fps.

So,... keep that in mind.

I'm actually thinking about creating a "regional" map system where if you are in one region it only populates that region and the surrounding regions w/ units. Then I could maybe make 800 units w/ only about 150-200 max at a time.
If you were in aircraft it would lag just because of the amount of population and depopulation so I would limit the aircraft to maybe Helicopters and Cessnas.

However, I think someone is already working on something like this.
Sinews of War | JadeGear | My Site
Skype Name: CrashDome
Best method of contact: ICQ or MSN

Josef

  • Guest
Re:Customizable Complete Enemy Island?
« Reply #13 on: 08 Oct 2003, 22:00:34 »
These missions could be pretty good for lans...

Think about it, 10 men, running around livetime for 2 days...14 days ingame(Time accelerator)...