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Author Topic: Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread  (Read 298356 times)

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Eviscerator

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1155 on: 10 Nov 2003, 21:44:38 »
Quote
It apears that the RSOV and CRRC are allready supported by the MH-47E cargo sling script.... Not sure what the CRRC is, but its in there....

Doesn't take long to find out:

http://www.navyseals.com/equip/watercraft.html

Onto the Blackhawk issue, i really dont see where the problem is, we have only released Blackhawks ONCE, and they were Army Blackhawks, the new ones are Airforce Pavehawks, which have vastly different roles. We have interspersed our Blackhawk releases with a huge pack of OPFOR units and an island, not exactly sticking to solely Blackhawks now is it?

As for the SEAL's, the guy making them has been AWOL for a few months, nothing we can do about it till he gets back, so theres really no point badgering us about the release, as we have no idea. And those 'teasers' you mention are around 6 months old, not exactly shoved in your face every minute of every day.
« Last Edit: 10 Nov 2003, 21:59:42 by Eviscerator »

Vyper

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1156 on: 10 Nov 2003, 22:18:49 »
I get the point about the blackhawks...but like they say its there choice what they make..

However...i must agree with the teaser shots of the desert pack and SEALs (fair enough if the guy's gone awol)...the shots we're shown of the hummers and such look virtually finished and that was a long time ago and we're not told otherwise so its to be expected people wonder where they are.

But we don't pay and so technically we have no right to complain and we are all big BAS fans..just wondering whats going on, there are few updates on the sight after all

Merci

Vyper

DeadMeatXM2

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1157 on: 10 Nov 2003, 22:27:08 »
Well, the BAS Blackhawks currently residing in my addons directory are the following (can't remember the prefices, so bear with me):

AH-60 DAP
UH-60K
UH-60L
UH-60M
Plus the ones under "BAS Spec Ops Vehicles" or whatever. They are over-represented, quite frankly.

Quote
My point stands; I am greatly impressed by the quality of the BAS addons, but I have to say I'm getting very tired of more and more Blackhawk variants, few of which seem to differ noticably from any of the others. This is realistic, of course, and the real-life differences between the variants are, of course, hardly noticeable in game terms, but it does fairly little to keep my interest.


Your point stands... pointless...

The ONLY BAS H-60s are:

UH-60L
MH-60L
MH-60K
AH-60L

Thats a grand total of 4, yes 4 units...

You can hardly say thats "over representing it" can you?

What about the numerous versions of Deltas and Rangers, the endless versions of M4's... hell there must be at least 30 different M4 packs, AT LEAST...


Quote
So please, don't go off in a huff, or give me that sort of half-flippant, half-defensive answer. I'm a great BAS fan, I'm just trying to give you the feedback you obviously want.

Whilst we appreciate this, and we ARE thankful for it (tho we may not show it sometimes), as you have said, we are "getting a lot of fairly offensive and unfounded flak lately" and after a while it does begin to get at us, afterall, we're only human too.

The point I was trying to make was, that we actually put the effort in to making these addons, (I KNOW its an old one) for free, for you guys. So maybe we can at least have our own choice in what we make? please?

Torak

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1158 on: 10 Nov 2003, 22:56:17 »
Your point stands... pointless...

Oh, how charming.

Quote
The ONLY BAS H-60s are:

UH-60L
MH-60L
MH-60K
AH-60L

Thats a grand total of 4, yes 4 units...
You can hardly say thats "over representing it" can you?

No, but another Blackhawk pack coming already...

Quote
The point I was trying to make was, that we actually put the effort in to making these addons, (I KNOW its an old one) for free, for you guys. So maybe we can at least have our own choice in what we make? please?

Of course, and I haven't challenged that. I've only tried to point out why people are getting somewhat agitated.

My posts have been nothing but courteous and constructive, and I'd appreciate replies in kind.I know you're getting flak, that's why I'm trying to make helpful comments, and you - and, I must say, several other members of the BAS team, on other forums - have immediately gone on the defensive. Hardly surprising, given some of the comments, but perhaps there would be less flak if you reserved the irritation for those who deserve it.

Offline Noon416

  • Old Bugger
  • Former Staff
  • ****
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1159 on: 11 Nov 2003, 00:50:33 »
Okay all, this might be a good time for everyone to step back and just take a breather.


1. Everyone has made their point and in a civil manner

2. Both sides have acknowledged each other's points and provided answers via valid statements of their own.

3. This is moving away from the topic and threatening to become a personal argument (of which they have no place in OFPEC).



I'd rather not get into the middle of this, but I will put a stop to it, if it starts to get out of hand

Thank you.
"If a man talks in the woods and no woman hears him, is he still wrong?"

Offline KTottE

  • Former Staff
  • ****
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1160 on: 11 Nov 2003, 10:44:37 »
I would just like to interject and say that BAS are doing this for free, and out of the goodness of their hearts, as are any addonmakers.
So those of you craving more addons from them should take that into consideration and also consider the fact that BAS doesn't have to release anything, at all.

And at the same time, BAS, and other addonmakers, have to realise that by making one or more of their addons publically available and also announcing the creation and upcoming releases of other addons they put themselves into a position where people will badger them for more addons, for different addons, complain about existing addons and whatnot.

Just some things to consider...
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'WOW What a Ride!'"

Cpt. FrostBite

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1161 on: 11 Nov 2003, 18:48:31 »
Quote
No, but another Blackhawk pack coming already...
no, a PAVEhawk pack. That a four letter difference  ;)
They don't force you to DL. Becides the BAS blackhawk pack is one of the best chopper addons available. (with no other good blackhawk)

Torak

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1162 on: 11 Nov 2003, 21:05:58 »
no, a PAVEhawk pack. That a four letter difference  ;)

Still essentially the same chopper. I'll still DL it, of course - there's no way I'd miss having the full set!

Quote
They don't force you to DL. Becides the BAS blackhawk pack is one of the best chopper addons available. (with no other good blackhawk)

It definitely is, and in every way vastly superior to the original BIS stuff (but that goes for almost all BAS addons). The only Blackhawks that even came close were the old TJP Blackhawks, and hey - you know where he is now!

dob

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1163 on: 12 Nov 2003, 01:40:50 »
 ;D ;D ;Dmerci de france just one bug in tonal ... 4 me

in the 2nd part of nogava addon bridge
it follow whith error the ground

in verry low detrail : 2 metters of difference
in low : 10 cm its ok but can u edit the id of the bridge with 1 script for
different level of detail? sorry for my english  ;)

verry good job !!!

comme to visit our team www.clan-mako.net c u in game ;=)

;D[MAKO] dob [MAKO] ;D


« Last Edit: 12 Nov 2003, 01:43:38 by dob »

Tigershark

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1164 on: 12 Nov 2003, 10:44:19 »
Umm its not just that rumor. But, im not in the buisness of all out war on BAS, they do some quite good stuff, their attitude just annoys me (and alot of other addon makers) from time to time. Like the "we'll publish your addons for you if they are good enough" policy, which is really "we'll nick your addons and put our name to them so we get the recognition for them", and you cant deny that, as its not exactly hard to publish an addon independantly, so why else would they offer?

Anyway srry, this isnt the place for that duscussion.

Nice work on the island guys, alot of hard work and time went into it, and i have ultimate respect for that.

I am afraid DM didn't relly explain the publishing aspect fully.

Pathy....I'm afraid you have misinterpreted the intention here. The purpose was never to create an elitist type attitude. When I created BAS I knew we would devote a lot of energy into detail and quality. My intention in offering publishiong came from an unfortunate situation in which small addon makers who were making great stuff, were being ignored because they weren't well known or some major flaw in the addon kept them their work from being recognised.

My intention was that if they wanted to work with BAS to get the addon up to a high standard they could exploit our name to get the recognition they deserved.

Your comment about us was incredibly unfair and somewhat insulting as if you had read our site carefully you would see that we offered full credit to the creator of the addon. The addon would be referred to as BAS presents XXX addon by YYYY. And the community would feel confident that the addon exhibited some basic quality stds. such as thorough beta testing, use of LODS, etc. This system is not unlike who book publishing works. Unknown authors are given much more credibility when they are published by recognised publishing houses. We have never taken (nor will we ever) credit for someone elses work.

The whole concept was a selfless attempt to help budding addon makers get more attention for their addons. It's unfortunate that you chose to interpret the whole exercise as you have.

We are still open to helping these types of addon makers should they want to publish their addons, despite whatever "sinister" rumours people such as yourself wish to propogate.

Tigershark

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1165 on: 12 Nov 2003, 11:07:14 »
My only real criticism of BAS would be their fondness for Blackhawks. Obviously everyone has their own favourite unit they're championing - I, for instance, would like to see those desert Hummers and things released - but BAS just keep releasing more and more Blackhawks. Don't get me wrong, I like things like the DAP, though my favourite vehicle has to be the BAS Little Birds, but it seems that there's a new Blackhawk being released every couple of weeks, with no significant difference between the models.

I like the idea of releasing a full set of Blackhawks and whatnot, and it obviously makes sense from a production point of view, but personally I'd prefer to see a bit of variation in their output. Why not put the hawks on the back burner and release the Hummers, or the Land Rovers or something?

The other thing that disappoints me is that the MH-47E (Cargo) doesn't support the other BAS vehicles; it seems that it can only carry BIS jeeps, while I'd certainly consider it useful to be able to carry, say, a UAZ for coverrt insurgency missions. Or maybe suspending a BRDM or something.

Torak,
My vision for BAS has always been to produce the US Special Ops equipment that was lacking in the game. To this end, and due to my passion for the Pavehawk, this project is merely an extension of that. Sure, it may appear to be just a reskin of helos that are already in game. But as is this is a personal goal of mine to get this in game and a decision that BAS is entitled to make, I really don't understand how ant criticism of that decision can be labelled "constructive".

Where your issue lies I think is why the Pavie takes precedence over other advertised projects. Without knowing how BAS is organised and how it operates, it is rather presumptious to assume that for some reason the Pavie has been given priority. Remember, the BAS team is stretched across continents, time zones, operate in variety of cultures and each distinct and different real life responsibilities that are all juggled to give the top quality addons you enjoy for free. Overcoming this immense difficulties we still deliver consistent quality to the community, often in the face of incredible displays of immaturity and lack of appreciation by members of the community.

Each project is divided up into various teams....the Desert Vehicles Pack, the Pavie and the SEALS are each being worked on by separate teams each with their cown constraints on time and ability to cordinate effort. The fact that the Pavie is being delivered before the Desert Vehicle pack is not a reflection of the importance we place on the addon, but more of a simple function of which was easiest and quickest to implement by a team.

Short answer....I have been working on the Pavie...it will be finished soon...the Desert Pack being worked on by another team...needs more work. It is unfortunate that you don't appreciate that delivering any addon is a large undertaking in itself, however, if the Pavehawks timing is not suitable to your liking, I'm afraid there is very little we can do about it. We all need to work adn support or families and such and cannot devote our time to OFP 100%.

If we do appear snide it is simply because we grow tired of being publically chastised for decisions, timings, ideals, etc. when all we are trying to do is give to the community....share with the community the fruits of our labour...the fruits produced from our love for this game and our desire to see the scope increased with our units and maps.

Enough said I think. The unfortunate thing about the Internet is that it is like giving everyone a printing press and saying you can print whatever you want. What people don't realise, is that their opinion is not always the most valuable out there....nor do others necessarily want to read what they have to type. You say it's your right to voice your opinion...fine....it's also ours to either value it or dismiss it.

I hope this has provided some insight in to why the Pavehawk is being released before other projects.

Torak

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1166 on: 12 Nov 2003, 11:31:12 »
Where your issue lies I think is why the Pavie takes precedence over other advertised projects. Without knowing how BAS is organised and how it operates, it is rather presumptious to assume that for some reason the Pavie has been given priority. Remember, the BAS team is stretched across continents, time zones, operate in variety of cultures and each distinct and different real life responsibilities that are all juggled to give the top quality addons you enjoy for free. Overcoming this immense difficulties we still deliver consistent quality to the community, often in the face of incredible displays of immaturity and lack of appreciation by members of the community.

Of course - that's understood and appreciated. I think, though, that ultimately BAS wouldn't meet such a hostile attitude if there was a bit more information from within. Obviously frequent status reports and things are out of the question, but perhaps something as simple as stating where each addon is in the production process would be sufficient to quieten the critics (amongst whom, I must add, I don't count myself).

Short answer....I have been working on the Pavie...it will be finished soon...the Desert Pack being worked on by another team...needs more work. It is unfortunate that you don't appreciate that delivering any addon is a large undertaking in itself, however, if the Pavehawks timing is not suitable to your liking, I'm afraid there is very little we can do about it. We all need to work adn support or families and such and cannot devote our time to OFP 100%.

Of course, and I'm not disputing that (I can't speak for others, of course, who have made some quite unreasonable demands). I think the whole point is that the comparative lack of information gives the impression that there is some sort of priority system, which as you say is obviously not the case.

If we do appear snide it is simply because we grow tired of being publically chastised for decisions, timings, ideals, etc. when all we are trying to do is give to the community....share with the community the fruits of our labour...the fruits produced from our love for this game and our desire to see the scope increased with our units and maps.

Agreed, and certainly all the BAS addons I've seen have been of unparallelled quality, all far surpassing BIS' stuff. That's why I'm trying to show where that reputation (amongst certain groups) has come from, since it's a shame that such a great addon team allows itself to develop a bad reputation by responding in such a defensive and - sometimes - hostile way to most feedback, rather than saving it for the critics who have to limit themselves to unfounded rudeness (for whatever reason).

Enough said I think. The unfortunate thing about the Internet is that it is like giving everyone a printing press and saying you can print whatever you want. What people don't realise, is that their opinion is not always the most valuable out there....nor do others necessarily want to read what they have to type. You say it's your right to voice your opinion...fine....it's also ours to either value it or dismiss it.

Referring to my comment above, was that comment intended as a general statement, or with reference to my comments specifically? Either way, that is precisely what I mean.

People in the community need to feel that their opinions are valued (or, if they're the people who post flamebait just for fun or out of jealousy because they can't make addons that measure up to your standard), they need to be told to sod off. But at the moment, the default reply from BAS seems to be telling people to sod off. You can't expect to avoid a bad reputation when the slightest criticism is met by such a torrent of vitriol because you're getting fed up. All you need to do is reply to each comment on its individual merits rather than flaring up, and I think BAS' reputation would improve considerably. Add to that, perhaps, a simple statement under the progress bars on the website - "planning", "scripting", "skinning" and whatnot - so people know what's happening, and the critics who just have a grudge against you wouldn't have a leg to stand on!

I'm posting this for one reason only: I've read a lot of comments on several forums, where BAS is getting a lot of flak for being "unhelpful" and "rude". Initially, this was unfounded, but I'm very disappointed to see possibly the best addon team around being criticised for something they could so easily do something about.

I guess the moderators must be getting fed up with this discussion now, so if you like we could take it to PM. I don't want to start a flame war, I just want to stop seeing BAS shoot itself in the foot.

Tigershark

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1167 on: 12 Nov 2003, 11:36:48 »
The comment you refer to was a general statement...not specifically aimed at your post.

No flame war necessary...you make some good points. And I hope that by reading my previous post people might get some of the information you suggested we don't readily distribute.

Torak

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1168 on: 12 Nov 2003, 11:43:51 »
Thanks for that.

Any thoughts on the "production stage" idea? It could probably be implemented fairly easily without detracting from the look of the site - and would provide an excellent way of making the "they never tell us anything" crowd shut up.

Tigershark

  • Guest
Re:Ballistic Addon Studios Update Thread
« Reply #1169 on: 12 Nov 2003, 12:24:54 »
Although it sounds like it has merit....it would actually place even more pressure on us...for example...the Pavehakws have been in texturing for a month now....how come they aren't finished?