Mplayer Map Filename Convention

[Terox]

The multiplayer Map Filename convention discussion, which has been going on for approximately 3 months now, has finally reached its goal


Basically, its a universal system by which mplayer maps could be named by

The actual system is posted on the following link

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard301/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=2;t=24344

Very briefly its aims are
1) To create an easily navigable and organised map listing system
2) To be simple and informative
3) To reduce multiple downloads of the same map from various server due to a small filename differences
4) To set a standard map filename for future mappers to use
5) To be used throughout the OFP Community


Note to OFPEC Admins
Would it be possible to either place this as a sticky at the top of this forum or somewhere where it will remain prominent, and lock it

Note to MPlayer Mappers
To help the dedicated server admins, could you please try to name your maps using the convention
(This is only a request)



Thanks

Terox (Zeus & Zeus addon server)

[Chris Death]

Without any offense, i really don't care about the
mp file name discussion (been goin on at BIS forum for 3
months now).

I want to give my mission my touch, and this is also the
name, i'm givin it.

This game lasts now nearly 2 years, and now there's
a filename convention  

I understand all, why you want to get all map makers
into this direction, but i still will give my maps the filename,
i want (still no offense meant here, but it's my thing).

Note to MPlayer Mappers
When naming your maps please follow the guidelines set down by the convention

This is the only critism i have now: At least you could post
this order in kind of a request than an order.
OK, there is a little please in it, but it still looks like an order
to me, and i really don't like orders, when creating maps
for others to play during my free-time.

Please don't get my reply as an offensife critism, it's just
that i really don't care about how somebody else would like
to name MY maps.

sorry for the negative feedback

~S~ CD

[Terox]

You dont have to follow anything you dont want too, however if your map is hosted on a dedicated server that has affiliated itself to the filename convention, then they will rename it, try reading the convention. Its designed for the good of the community

[Sefe]

Note to OFPEC Admins
Would it be possible to either place this as a sticky at the top of this forum or somewhere where it will remain prominent, and lock it

No.

This is a topic for the editors depot, not for the forums. And don't you think we would read your request if you would use your normal font?

#admin hat off

In my personal opinion I don't think there is a need for such a convention. I never had any problems with mission types.

if your map is hosted on a dedicated server that has affiliated itself to the filename convention, then they will rename it, try reading the convention.

If anyone dares to violate my copyright by renaming one of my missions I'll force him to either change the name back or to take the mission from the server. I would strongly recommend not to rename any mission without the explicit consent of the author. You infringe copyright laws doing that. Don't try to accomplish your goals in an illegal way.

I'd strongly recommend to change your "convention" to:

3) It is the admins responsibility to modify map names on his server. The admin has to seek the explicit permission of the author to change the mission name. If the permission is not explicitly given (which includes the case that the author doesn't react to the request), the mission name may not be modified.

[Terox]

it would be nice to be able to contact every map maker, unfortunately, not many put a contact email address somehwere in the map, eg the notes.
This is also a requested inclusion in the convention


I really dont understand the hostility
If the maps were being Depbo'd, then this i could understand and fully agree with.

For nearly 2 years now different servers have already been renaming maps to conform to their specific naming convention. Which basically means putting the various subgroups in a set order, the name of the map doesnt change.[/size]

instead of
ctf 2_24 Mymapname version (Including weird tags and numbers brackets etc)
or
2_24 mymapname ctf etc etc

it simply becomes
for existing maps
ctf 24 mymapname (existing version number)


for new maps
ctf 24 mymapname (recommended version number)

This is for the good of the community


The convention discussion has been going on for over 3 months and now when its over, folks start posting disagreements


However if any map makers feel this is unjust and they dont want server admins to find it easy to locate their maps in the hundreds of map listings we have on dedicated servers,  then

Please post the name of all the maps that you dont want amended, and i will pass this information on

[Noon416]

Terox,

Great idea, but you're lacking in the approach.

Looking over your discussion in the official forums, it appears you've left out the single biggest component to this convention ... the map-making community.

The discussion seems to me to have taken place between a dozen people, and remained with that dozen, not spreading to anywhere/anyone else.

So when you suddenly turn up all over the place saying "Do this now" when noone has seen or heard of the convention till now, of course you're going to get 'hostility' in the form of resistance to the idea.

You need to open this to the community more, before trying to enforce it.
People need to feel like they've been asked before they're willing to accept the rulings of others.

Education is the key to acceptance, not dictation.

[Terox]

i came on this site and posted a link to the discussion 3 months ago, i tried my damdest to get everyone in on it, mailing dozens of sites, i tried, folks didnt respond.


I cant seem to find the post for some reason

What more could i have done


There is nothing enforced here, (How on earth could there be) this is a completely voluntary convention to follow
The list of servers supporting the convention is growing

Either join in or not,  everybody's choice

[Noon416]

The other thread is here.

Just give it time and don't expect it to be accepted without debate from those outside of the the original thread.
This convention will take time to sink in, as OFPEC's TAG system did.

Don't forget, it may have been debated for 3 months, but this the first time the community is really seeing it.
Bear that in mind, and it should ease the process for you.

[Sefe]

it would be nice to be able to contact every map maker, unfortunately, not many put a contact email address somehwere in the map, eg the notes.

You're missing the point. The question is not if it is possible to contact the authors. It's also not if renaming maps has been done in the past. The question is if you are allowed  to change the name of a map (where it doesn't make a difference if it's "only" the file name).

Wether you agree or not, there are only two ways to change a mission name: a legal way and an illegal way. The legal way is to do it with the permission of the author and the illegal way is to do it without the permission. This is not open for interpretation or opinion. These are the facts. And you're simply acting illegal if you don't have the explicit permission of the author. The author hasn't included an e-mail address in the readme? He hasn't included a readme at all? He doesn't react to your request? That doesn't matter, if you change the mission name without his permission, you infringe copyright law.

And can't you understand what's the origin of my "hostility" (I don't think that you're my enemy, so I don't think I am hostile)? You come and say: "If you don't use our convention we'll make you use it. It's for the best of the community." My missions are my intellectual property no-one tells me how to name my mission. Most mission makers put much thought in their mission names and so do I. I won't accept that someone changes it without my permission. You say it's for the best of the community. I'm a member of the community. Do you want to to tell me what's best for me?

I have nothing against your convention. But what you do is to force mission makers into that convention. That's nor legal neither decent. Of course you can have your own naming rules. But they only apply to the ones who accept them. That includes players, server admins and mission makers. Take our addon tagging system as an example. While we think that all addons should be tagged to avoid conflicts (no conflicts will happen if an MP mission doesn't apply to the convention - a big difference), we don't force anyone to use our system. We don't rename addon submissions that are not tagged, we reject them. Simply because we go the legal way.

[Chris Death]

Terox - there's really no hostility in here

Fact is:

As i already said above, i understand why you want
to get things goin into this direction.

Oh yeah, it's a great idea;

...BUT...

Discussions about filename conventions were going earlier,
and will be there in futur.

It wasn't and it will not be possible to lead the mission makers
into the direction, you want.

I've also had a few looks into your discussion thread at BIS-forum every now and then (just to have a laugh about how
far the discussion went this time) :plz don't take this offense,
rather take it sarcastic to the whole theory.

There will be never a way to get map-makers to name their
files different to than what they want.

I for myself like to see a story in my filenames and not a
coding, telling me details about it (i know my maps).

Also i wouldn't like to see a whole list of clone like maps,
when selecting on a server:

ctf 24 riverdance v1
ctf@ 32 armourgheddon beta 1.1
c&h 30 one road v2
tdm 12 deathvalley beta 1.6
c&h@ 24 deliverence v1
c&h 24 efl malden v1

When having 100 of those named maps i would feel a bit
borrowed, and the more i would not have my overview
in my user-mission folder.

I name the files in my style like i've ever been doing it
(i know my style and my style knows me).

And SEFE got it exactly to the point aswell.

You don't have the right to rename any not_by_you_made_file.

Well, if it belongs to single player, nobody would care as long
as you wouldn't publish the name changed file, but when it
comes to multiplayer, we're talking about publishing the
map. Everytime a player loads a map with a filename, he
didn't load, he'll get it on his harddisk.

What i really wouldn't even tolerate is: downloading
dozens of my own maps just because somebody got the
great idea to rename it.

For some map-makers even the filename is some kind of
personal touch (at least for me).

ChrisDeath_over_and_out.pbo

[Shrike_Z]

my 2 cents:

I don't see how someone could not name maps according to his style and gusto...the naming convention does not change the map name itself, it just puts the map parameters in an easy to read and easy to sort way.
So your map name would alway include <insertburstofcreativityhere> while making it a lot easier for admins - especially voted in admins - to navigate on any given public server. That's all. The quicker you are able to choose a proper map, the quicker the game will start, the happier the players will be...
I fail to understand how 2 digits and a maptype tag can spoil the creativity and style of the name you gave to your maps... Maybe it's just because I am not very creative myself...

I totally understand, however, if some of you do not want anybody to change their mapname, since it's your intellectual property. No problem, but your map would probably have to be removed from the server and therefore not be played...

I run 2 very busy public servers (one of them is a pure addon server) and I am very grateful for Terox' approach to clear the chaos of the 100+ maps currently on. Again, the name is still the same as before, we just put the 3 tags in front of it (type,addon yes/no, player number).
If anyone here fears we illegally changed their mapname: I have no problem mailing/posting a text file containing all mapnames on my server. If you find your missions on it and feel offended I will apologize and delete the map, promised!
Peace
Shrike

PS: I know my English is a bit rusty, I hope you still get my point!

[joltan]

What i really wouldn't even tolerate is: downloading
dozens of my own maps just because somebody got the
great idea to rename it.

And exactly that will be reduced by the convention. It is one of the main reasons why it is sensible to try a community wide approach.

Most big servers already have a naming scheme of their own - with 100+ (our server has about 260 missions) you really can't know all of them and you need to be able to select maps fast when the server is full instead of either restricting yourself to a handfull of missions everybody has already played to death or using trial&error until you find a mission that fits the type (ctf,coop,tdm,...) and the number of players you need. So wether you like it or not, if your mission is to be hosted on a big server it will be renamed.

Now if every server has its own naming scheme you would have to download the same mission again and again, just because of the different filename. When there's a common naming scheme (or convention), then this will not be nescessary.

Nobody is talking about dictating people how to name their missions - but lets be honest - the filename is hardly your mission and changing it does in no way hurt your creativity or intellectual property - which, as you said yourself, should be in the mission and not in the filename.  The convention (I rather prefer the word 'scheme') gives basic rules on how to add information to the filename so it is easier for other people to use. In no part does it say anything about changing the missions name.

Now I'm a mission maker myself, making mp missions, and I really appreciate this effort (having participated myself heavily in the discussion at flashpoint1985). To me it only has advantages: players do not have to download duplicates of my missions (I like to use music in them, so they are usually a few hundred kb in size) and admins find it easy to select them thanks to the additional info provided by the tag. As a mission maker I like to see my missions played and hosted, so this is good.

[Sefe]

lets be honest - the filename is hardly your mission and changing it does in no way hurt your creativity or intellectual property

You're wrong. You're not only hurting someone's intellectual property. You are commiting a crime. In Germany, according to the German Copyright Act, publishing a work - which also includes OFP missions (which technically are computer programs) - or an edited version of the work without the permission of the author can be punished with a prison sentence of up to three years or a pecuniary punishiment. The instigator is punished in the same way as the perpetrator. Additionally the proprietor has the right to take prohibitory action and/or claim for compensation. Copyright law is subject to European harmonization and international treaties. So you can expect to have similar rules in your country.

There is absolutely no questioning that the title is a part of the work and is protected in the same way as the work itself. When the author publishes his mission he gives the implied permission to publish the work as it is. However, you can not imply the permission to publish a changed version of the mission without the consent of the author.

You don't seem to be aware about one thing: the rights of the author don't stop to be prevalent just because you think you're doing something for the good for the community (I'm asking myself where a few people take the right to define what's best for the community - how can urging server admins to commit crimes and damage the trust of the mission authors in the integrity of their published missions be for the good of the community?). Fact is: when you deal with missions, you're dealing with intellectual property of others, hence modifying them (it doesn't matter if it's 'just' the filename) without permission is legally and morally wrong. And, wether you like it or not, it's a crime.

[joltan]

You're wrong. You're not only hurting someone's intellectual property. You are commiting a crime. In Germany, according to the German Copyright Act, publishing a work - which also includes OFP missions (which technically are computer programs) - or an edited version of the work without the permission of the author can be punished with a prison sentence of up to three years or a pecuniary punishiment. The instigator is punished in the same way as the perpetrator. Additionally the proprietor has the right to take prohibitory action and/or claim for compensation. Copyright law is subject to European harmonization and international treaties. So you can expect to have similar rules in your country.

Renaming a file is not altering the content or the title. In what aspect is your work (the content of the file and the mission title - both saved inside the pbo, and not in the filename) infringed by changing the filename. That is like suing a store for selling a product in a different packaging. That is at best hilarious, at worst a horrible waste of time.

Jez... get a life.

BTW: I'm familar with German copyright laws.

[Noon416]

You're missing the point, joltan.

The resistance you are all experiencing is simply because the "attitude" of the convention is one of "we'll change what we want with or without permission".

There is a fundamental difference between a system that requires a certain standard PRIOR to submission, instead of enforcing that standard without permission AFTER submission.

Compare the OFPEC TAG system and the MP Filename Convention, as they were both created to serve the community...

OFPEC TAG:
- Came into existence to meet a community need to avoid conflicts with addons
- Ideas and methods produced privately
- Community consulted and asked if they like it, and if not what can we do to improve it?
- Adopted by OFPEC and community as a prerequisite for OFPEC Addon submission

MP FILENAME CONVENTION:
- came into existence to meet a community need to avoid conflicts with MP filenames
- Ideas and methods produced privately ...
- Adopted by Servers

Note the missing steps.
- You haven't consulted the community about this standard.
- It hasn't been adopted by the community yet

All you've done is thought it up, plan it out and then started forcing people to use it.
No consultation, no adoption by the mapmaking community in general.

Terox states that we don't have to adhere to it ... but if we don't, its still going to be used on our missions.

Thats the fundemental difference thats preventing widespread acceptance.

OFPEC TAG: "This is our system, this is why we want you to use it. If you don't, we won't force you but will suggest how you can implement it for use with us, but if you refuse you unfortunately cannot host the addon with us"

MP FILENAME CONVENTION: "This is our system, this is why we want you to use it. If you don't, we will make you use it anyway"

Spot the difference?
In the TAG system, the changes are made prior to submission, or voluntarily by the author after consultation with us.
In the MP system, the changes are made prior to submission, or involuntarily by the server without consultation with the author.

I'm not saying its a bad idea, I think its a good one.
But you need to make on very simple change .... your approach to the community.
Take a similar stance to ours, and no doubt you'll very quickly enjoy the success that we have with the TAG system.
Keep up the "you have no say" approach, and this will take a very long time to bring into acceptance.

Hope this helps your campaign for community acceptance.