mission reviewing

[sharkattack]

mmm ... 
i submitted several  mssions  which i created ...  to ofpec   for review
youre  beta  missions reviewers  have been  more than  productive  ...
but  i see  no  entrys  in mission depot  from  youre officail review team
although  they  do  a good job  in providing  feedback  id  like to see missions  reviewed  by someone  who is quallified to do so ...
i  see  no  previous entrys  from  mission reviewers  ( rhys  and  cheetah ) and i wonder   what  qualifys them to pass judgement  on other missions ... when  they  have  nothing submitted  to referr  against ...

sorry to be a pain  and  no offence  rhys  and  cheetah you  do a great  job ...


and  yes  grammer is important   but  not  during  beta phase  think of the  lads  who  dont  have english  as a first  language
(yes im a thick  geordie but  many  arnt )

to  be  pulled  for  grammer  isnt  on ...  concentrate  on gameplay  please ...  as  long  as  we  get  the  jist ...  and  the  mission  plays  as it should

[LCD]

lol

i dont see no game reviewer makin games

[edit]

dat st00pid post (mine b4 da edit) was writen while testing ur mision d00d so check up ur beta thread

nywayz now 4 da long answer...

i think whats important 4 reviewer is not ability 2 make good misions... after all dats our job nd it soaks up alota time... dey wont have time 2 review if dey were busy makin ... whats realy important 4 em is 2 (unlike me) b able 2 write grammer right (even tho i think u correct bout da gramar rating in review tingy) nd 2 have patience 2 play da same mision 4 at least 5-10 times 2 get all da stuff bout it... nd 2 have enough free time 2 do all dat... nd most important deyre ppl we can count on nd not some1 insane (unlike me again ).

we shud respect em 4 really carin enough 2 also come n beta test our misions...

LCD OUT

[Planck]

Hello shark attack,

Can you provide a list of these missions you feel should have mission reviews in the MD, I should point out that if these missions are reasonably old then they may be amongst the missions we were unable to recover after our many troubles.

However, looking in the MD list there are 2 mission reviews of missions by yourself.

[ArmA] Especas Commando
The Tiptoe Boys

If you can say which mission reviews you feel are missing maybe we can find out why or if any are indeed missing.


As far as I'm concerned the review team is perfectly qualified to review mission and therefore your wish for qualified mission reviewers is already realised.
Mission reviewers do not need to be mission makers in their own right, but it sometimes helps them if they are mission authors themselves so they have an additional perspective to fall on when reviewing mission.

In this respect rhyduk and cheetah are both previous mission authors.
Being a mission author does not make anyone automatically a good mission reviewer, we are lucky in that we have these 2 good reviewers who just happen to be mission authors too.

Beta testing is supposed to help the author iron out mistakes in the mission submitted including grammar for briefings ...etc.
If nobody helps mission authors to correct spelling and grammar then they will never produce spelling error free text for their missions.
It is a necessary part of beta testing.

Once an author feels his mission is ready for review he says so, however, if there are still errors, even in grammar and spelling, the reviewer will mention it in the review.
So, it is always best to get it correct in beta testing.

If the beta testers never mention spelling and grammar mistakes in beta testing, how then does the author know about them, it is a nonsense to say it should not be mentioned in beta phase.

Rhyduk and Cheetah have put a lot of effort into the testing of beta missions including MP testing, even a couple of your own missions have been helped in this way and if they do not mention spelling and grammar mistakes at the beta phase they will be still present during review and marked accordingly.


Planck

[sharkattack]

i agree..
rhys  and cheetah  do  a great  job ...
i was   just saying  id like  to see  mission s reviewed  by a mission maker (didnt  know they were)..


no offence  lads ...   

[Artak]

In my opinion the optimal situation would be if the mission reviewer IS NOT a mission maker himself. This will give him the opportunity to step back and judge the mission objectively and what's most important, NOT compare it to his own missions.
OFPEC has had many many wonderful and professional reviewers, but at the same time there's been a great many not so wonderful ones. The latter usually ended up doing one or two reviews and then fade away. The worst thing a reviewer can do is to think more highly of himself as a mission maker than his worth and judge others by using himself as an example.

There's no way that OFPEC will ever get 5-10 outstanding mission makers working in the MD as mission reviewers, who could then compare their own work to the ones being reviewed, so it's best to just not do it at all.
Instead what the reviewer does is to judge everyone by the same standards, adapted by all reviewers from their written guidelines.

I'm speaking in general, and not referring to anyone in OFPEC's current staff.


What comes to spelling and grammar mistakes in missions, even though they're always pointed out, they don't affect the final overall score too much. They're pointed out because everyone, those who're native english speakers and those who're not (like myself), should have access to online dictionaries and even have their text corrected by OFPEC's beta testers. If one strives for perfection in mission making, then it should start from the spelling and language used. But again, I stress that it doesn't affect the final score too much when not really extencive.

[macguba]

Indeed.   Mission reviewing is a different skill from mission making, and just because you are good (or bad) at one it doesn't mean you will be any good at the other.   The Mission Depot is at it's strongest when it has a mixture of mission makers and non-mission makers amongst its reviewers.

Also remember that reviewers are working for the benefit of mission players.   It is therefore essential that they have a wide experience of playing missions, which they do.   Obviously they need to know something about making missions too.

We are always on the lookout for new mission reviewers.

And thanks for your comments shark attack.  We like comments.  Mission reviewers have to pass a stringent test before they are accepted onto the staff, which includes a test review.  Historically, fewer than half the applicants get hired.  They also get fired if they prove not up to the job.   Mission reviewers communicate with each other and the Depot Admin and if, for example, there is a mission they are unsure of or feel that they cannot review adequently for some reason then they ask for and get appropriate advice and support.

Final point:  English is not the first language of most of OPFEC's members and therefore correct grammar and spelling is essential.   It's hard enough trying to understand a foreign language without the bit you are trying understand being full of mistakes. 

[sharkattack]

fair  comments   guys ...
i stand corrected     

[johnnyboy]

Beta-testing is easy, because it is viewed as "helpful".  Reviewing is tough, because you are critiquing something that someone poured many hard hours of work and creativity into.  It is human nature for a designer to take it personally if they disagree with a review. 

However, reviews are one of the most important factors that sets this site apart.  When there are thousands of missions posted at sites, how do you know which ones are any good?  Setting a filter at OFPEC for a score of 6 or higher, means I will likely find very good missions.  Just the fact that a designer knows his mission will have a published score motivates them to make a higher quality mission (which benefits all).

So reviewing is somewhat of a thankless job, unless you give everyone a top score (which instantly undermines usefulness of scores).

Anyway, I understand Shark's concerns (especially because my first born will soon go under the knife ), but this site does a top job.   My thanks goes out to the reviewers and all the OFPEC staff for their hard work and dedication.

I do have a question though:

Instead what the reviewer does is to judge everyone by the same standards, adapted by all reviewers from their written guidelines.

What are the written guidelines?  Are they posted? 

[sharkattack]

i have  no  gripe  against  review system ...  was  delighted  to  get a 6  and  a 7 for previous  submissions ...  was merley trying to look  for  an example  of  how a mission should be made  "by a mission reviewer "   ... having  read the above posts  i realize  that  indeed  making  a mission   and  reviewing  one  are two different  types of fish ....   regretting   making  the post  now !!!

[Artak]

regretting   making  the post  now !!!

Don't.

/edit

johhnyboy, here's a link to an old thread where the scoring is explained a bit.

http://www.ofpec.com/forum/index.php?topic=22550.0

[johnnyboy]

Artak, thanks for the guidelines link.  That helped alot.

Originally I was concerned that playability, story, fun, etc., wasn't weighted high enough, but that is all explained in your "Overall" category.

[sharkattack]

yup ...
a very usefull  document  ...