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Author Topic: [SP] Black Forest (Review Complete)  (Read 12761 times)

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Offline mathias_eichinger

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 10.11)
« Reply #15 on: 15 Nov 2009, 18:14:11 »
Hey SaOK,

Are you sure you put the right version up on filefront?

See, I tried the file that is named 1.20 and it has no option to choose air patrols or not, or toggle the volumetric fog.
Also, there are no AT weapons to be found at the middle outpost, and it is still impossible to catch the convoy. I followed it after it was out of reach, as it appeared to have stopped only to have the objective failed once I was in firing distance.

I lost my motivation when I was mortally wounded in Stary Sobor while racing towards the NAPA meeting point, sorry.


Offline SaOk

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 10.11)
« Reply #16 on: 16 Nov 2009, 13:00:25 »
Filefront have the right version. I forgot to fully update the readme (it has the new change log but version number at top is old). I also tested the mission-file and its the right one. You can see to have the version 1.2 when there is mention of the Black Forest in loading screen. And the intro have music, more units and a big rusty fuel tank.

The new version also have markers to guide player to the AT weapons box, HQ tent, ammo cache, vehicles. For me the convoy is very slow. They drive really bad before the Stary Sobor but after that they can get to exit point quite fast. I would like to keep it as challenging as it is now because the task is meant to be instantaneous and player should hurry to success. Still, the convoy could continue driving after the failing point.

Offline mathias_eichinger

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 10.11)
« Reply #17 on: 18 Nov 2009, 20:23:27 »
Well, I got the version off Filefront, and it is lacking the markers you describe....

Offline SaOk

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 10.11)
« Reply #18 on: 19 Nov 2009, 11:20:07 »
Are you sure that you havent mixed the downloaded files? Mine was also renamed to SPBlackForest(2).rar while I downloaded it to see if I have right version Filefront. The new package should have modified date for files (Readme... & Pbo-file) set to 10.11.2009. Filefront should really have the right version.

Offline kju

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 10.11)
« Reply #19 on: 19 Nov 2009, 17:35:10 »
Thanks for the mission SaOk.  :good:

So far I just started it.
I like the overall atmosphere and feeling.
To be able to configure several aspects is great too.

Playing on vet, I don't get any WP - tasks would always been shown I think.
Anyway this gave me a bit of trouble at the start, as the text made me
think the house was just one of the next to your position.

Did you consider an option to skip the "cutscene/intro" at the start.
It gets annoying after a while. :)

Anyway thanks so far and back another day when I have more progress.  :-[

Offline Manzilla

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 10.11)
« Reply #20 on: 20 Nov 2009, 02:32:16 »
I've been enjoying this mission for quite sometime but my only big problem is the lack of Medical Tent at any of the CDF Outposts.(Unless I'm missing it.) I got to figure out a way to get into and assault the Russian camp with two crawling team members. ;)

Offline SaOk

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 28.11)
« Reply #21 on: 28 Nov 2009, 22:31:04 »
Sorry, I had a really bad bug in the mission. The whole ACM didnt work when player disabled air patrol. I have fixed that now in the new version 1.3 and also heavily changed the convoy task with a new working route for it. Escord vehicle is also changed to BTR (for better leading) and you dont need to hurry when receiving AT weapons from the camp. The convoy now waits at one spot until player is leaving the black forest. To avoid it becoming too easy, there is some new suprises in Stary Sobor. There is also some other new tweaks and even changes in dialog. Hopefully this is the last fix for this for months.  ;)

And the version number (v1.3) is now marked in overview after the description part.

Offline savedbygrace

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 28.11)
« Reply #22 on: 14 Dec 2009, 20:46:12 »
PLayed this one this morning.
Mission version 1.30 / Game version 1.04 /regular setting, no mods.

Just going to hit on the things that haven't been mentioned. As you know, English could use some polishing (Talk to ya later about that).

The Dialogue from where the player chooses ACM appearance, fog, etc. needs to be centered(moved right). Some of it is cut off on the left side.

Tasks text are too long for the integrated dialogue template.

At the HQ camp; you provide the player with the "option" to take along some specops but then you add them automatically. (Can probably be corrected by rephrasing that offer)

The area to search for the missing soldiers was not clear at first as you did not put a direction or mention it in the task description. You did mention it during the cutscene but I had forgotten what he said.

The conversation to retake the HQ was not clear enough on what the player was suppose to do before he called the Chedaki in as backup. (were you giving the player time to recon before throwing them in the mix?)

The objective to retake the HQ never ticked until I ran to the intersection where the marker was. (I had already cleared and secured the objective)

Is there a way to identify when the player marks the map for fire mission? I activated the radio and called in the fire mission but had to react to some incoming offensive without marking the map immediately. I lost that fire mission as a result. Is there a way to rest the radio call if the map is not marked after a few moments?

The enemy should also share the agony of having to writhe in pain helplessly in front of me while I pick off his friends.(first aid module not active for them)

The battle lines were not clear at all.(so I was not certain where I was safe and where I was not.)

Last but not least; the mission did not end for me.

Overall, long gameplay, with some rather uneventful treks between some of the objectives but challenging and fun.


Offline SaOk

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 28.11)
« Reply #23 on: 14 Dec 2009, 21:50:29 »
Thanks for test reports here and in msn. I realized that there seems to be some issues with different display settings (resolution and display ration). Briefing and dialogue are displayed right with 19:10 and 1920X1200, but I need to ensure those working right with other settings too.

There will be massive changes before the next version.

Offline Trapper

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 28.11)
« Reply #24 on: 21 Jan 2010, 17:41:40 »
Well, what a mission. Let me start with how I've played it:

1.05
1280x1024 (see screenshots, not perfect aligned but no bugs)

ACE2 mod; custom/regular difficulty

default ACM settings and veteran button
- coffee task
- radio parts for western outpost
- search for the two lost guys (did free them)
- ambush transport trucks (one truck escaped; fail)
- did meet NAPA leader
- reconquered NAPA HQ in Novy x
- supported NAPA with destroying BMP at roadblock
- rested for the night at middle outpost
- breakfast at eastern outpost/look out tower
- did hold eastern outpost against first Russian attack wave
- started to defend middle outpost against second Russian attack wave
...canceled after the mission didn't finish when I assassinated every attacking unit I could find with ACE2 console:player allowdamage false. I was the last survivor of the middle outpost.

Playtime +11 hours (maybe 1h waiting for unlimited savegames to load included)


My pros:
- a motivating story line
- utilizing many of the new ArmA2 editing features like one of the big official campaign missions
- unlimited savegames

My cons:
- you're burden the player with your own homework: Finding a balanced ACM setting to eventually enjoy the mission without being sub challenged or overstrained. Who would really ever want to play completely without ambient combat or being slaughtered by it to fail the mission?
- extraordinary savegame loading times, like official campaign
- mission is too big*
- most battles/tasks are too difficult**
- the first mission which tempted me to cheat with godmode
- I did expect a "normal grunt" mission but later on I recognized I was the CDF equivalent of recon Team Razor. Not bad at all I would just like the story to express this fact/role more.



*
Missions of such a scale should only be set up if necessary. There is no situation where the search of, or march through the whole area of operations is the main interest here. This engine does disoblige living world scenarios like Fallout 3, GTA and so on. The only mission worth it that I've encountered so far is Harvest Red - Manhattan. I don't say drop anything but I would've made a dynamic campaign of all your content to not stress any PC(-user).
The players hurry miles from task to task if everything goes right or have to fight through random ACM which is dull or deadly most of the time. Reloading one unlimited savegames per 3 minutes (the longer the mission lasts) for unbalanced random encounters is not fun.
While writing this I feel a similarity to the overplayed coop mission Evolution and the dull times between base/respawn and objective.


**
I'm sure the main difficulty issue here was playing with ACE2. Anyway ACE2 strives for realism with balance in everything so I claim the Rambo factor of your mission could be lowered. Everything depends too much on the player controlled units and his performance. Most of the time the other friendly units around are no match for the enemy. For me this is some kind of lacking realism in an ArmA scenario that I'm supposed to win without a withdraw option.

Example1 Truck ambush:
Feasible but stressing if you try to use your ai comrades for the AT weapons and have little time to move them into the right positions. I admit that's more realistic than having all the time of the world ;).

Example2 Hold middle outpost:
High Command. 2 tanks, 2 squads. Call me a bad and impatient commander but I wanted to finish the mission there isn't much room to maneuver around the outpost. Plus I wasn't told to fall out and intercept somewhere else.
I've positioned the tanks close to the outpost, facing the enemy. Moved both squads to both flanks into the forest and waited. As soon as the music starts and the full scale enemy attack begins my both tanks go up in flames! Something long range kills them instantly and they didn't even report an enemy before. Of course the two squads and my own squad of three men stand no chance against the enemy tanks. Not even with unlimited savegames.


EDIT:

There's a typo concerning the breakfast scenario: "eat" not "east"

When I searched the forests for the two missing soldiers an orange arrow appeared in the upper left corner of the screen after titletext "I've heard something". Though it didn't lead me to the soldiers on the first attempt and after a second reload I've got the titletext, encountered the captive guys and their guards but no arrow at all appeared.
« Last Edit: 21 Jan 2010, 17:50:01 by Trapper »

Offline SaOk

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 28.11)
« Reply #25 on: 21 Jan 2010, 22:02:45 »
Big Thanks Trapper for testing. :)

I have also made test runs with ACE2 and that is the reason for challeging battles and probably for the destroyed tanks at the last objective. When playing with vanilla game, ACM on default 0.4 and enemy skills set to 0.7(max) then you can easily avoid the unnecessary contacts with the enemy and the mission should be beatable in about 2 hours. The longer you play the slower the savegames seem to become. I've made changes in scripts to prevent the slow performance in late mission but not sure if it will really work.

I've been working much on next version which is already 99% rewritten (thx to savedbygrace who is also helping in other areas). There will also be voiceacting, ambient voices, animals, more ambient life, more detailed locations to visit and maybe few new hidden optional objectives. There is already (too) much to play but I like to offer so many objectives that players can make choices. You can already skip the objectives after the convoy task and return to home. The good performance and loading times are still both very important and there will be new detailed spawning scripts and other tweaks to restrict most of the life/objects only to places where player is currently visiting.

And I am going to tweak the ending trigger which requires currently too large area to be cleared. That orange arrow is totally unknown for me. There shouldnt be any. :)

This mission have been an experiment for me. I wanted to create as big mission as I can and test any new scripting ideas that just came to my mind. There is currently weaker and better areas in it but hopefully the next version will be enjoyable from start to the end. (Also?) For me the weakest part currently are the optional tasks outside of the forest. I will try to make the journey to those tasks much more interesting that it is now. Much less ACM show, more custom made details. I will probably even blacklist the ACM from much bigger areas than before.


EDIT: For all testers - I removed the first post download link for the mission. It's better to wait for the next version since there is heavy changes coming.
« Last Edit: 22 Jan 2010, 16:58:20 by SaOk »

Offline Trapper

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Halt testing)
« Reply #26 on: 22 Jan 2010, 21:36:59 »
I expected it to be an experiment of that kind. :)
The wind rose arrow will be a part of ACE then, it looked user painted.

Offline SaOk

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (A massive new release 16.4)
« Reply #27 on: 16 Apr 2010, 17:54:54 »
A new version 2.0 is here with massive changes including new voice acting by savedbygrace. See the first post for better details and a download link.

The mission should be already in good state but testing and bug reports are always welcome. Let me know if there is any flaws in mission that you dont like (e.g. Is there frustrating tasks, would you like something to be better or made differently).

Edit (13th may): I've been adding ACE2 content and performance tweaks to the mission, but there is few bugs in ArmA2 that dosent allow good FPS in big missions like this. Even the quicker body removal and other tweaks dosent help. I made some testing in editor and found out that only 1/3 of the taken performance is given back when AI unit is deleted. Also a dead and alive AI is as bad for the performance. I made bug-reports with sample missions to dev-heaven. Now I can just wait. Its also better to postpone the review until the issues are gone. I will also rebalance the mission when the game changes are hopefully someday there.

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/10544
http://dev-heaven.net/issues/10542
« Last Edit: 13 May 2010, 13:34:39 by SaOk »

Offline SaOk

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 20.05)
« Reply #28 on: 20 May 2010, 14:44:56 »
I released version 2.4. There is much work done for better performance. I added a body removal and a system to keep entities (units, bodies, vehicles and static guns) under ~80 until morning. For me the FPS is over 10 better at some points in optional tasks, but the perfomance still seem to go down (but much slower) during the playing. Its connected to computer spec so players will have different experiences.

All the over 100 SQS scripts are also converted to SQF. I noticed faster savegames at least, but I hope those are also more stable. I noticed some weird behaviour with SQS scripts where they ingored some of the variables in late game. I hope those are gone now.
« Last Edit: 20 May 2010, 14:56:03 by SaOk »

Offline haroon1992

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Re: [SP] Black Forest (Updated 20.05)
« Reply #29 on: 24 May 2010, 11:43:49 »
I'm downloading it..........
Looks like a huge mission....will post feedback tomorrow........


And there seems to be a lot stuff to steal OOPS derive from your mission.....
(I hope you give permission to use the scripts in your missions, in my mission)

Very busy with life, business, and other stuff. Away from OFP for months. Not sure if I could get back onto it. :(