(Review Completed) [SP/COOP1-10] 'Cipher' - final

[Wiper]

While nailing some annoying bugs that I noticed right after released 1.28 just a question regarding difficulty, maybe I'm able to add something similar for the soon planned hotfix:

What do you think is the best choice for reducing the difficulty:

1) just reduce the number of enemy groups - A) as an option, or B) bound to the cadet mode ?
2) more drastic decrease of the AI skills aimingshake & accuracy - same here A) or B) ?
3) more lame movement of the AI so that the humans have more time and air to breath until the get swarmed - A) or B) ?

yea, some photo footage is on my to do list, meanwhile popping up in the high priority ranges
Will do for sure.

Thanks !

[hoz]

1) just reduce the number of enemy groups - A) as an option, or B) bound to the cadet mode ?

This is a good idea. I like the idea of removing the mi24 in cadet mode.

3. We found always that when entering the shaded red area, the AI always bunched up and basically made it impossible to get a foot inside.

btw, I like the usage of the MP lobby options

[Wiper]

Once again many thanks for your inspiring ideas, hoz !

Have added actually a mix of downscales in v1.30:
Essentially the new 4 difficulty settings influence the hostile AI accuracy, general skill values, flexibility of their internal communication ("bunching up" effect) and the presence of air cover.

Hope you may find it useful as it is right now.
Personally I think 75% skill is a winner, the lower settings are more or less for training and the 100% is practically the original setting as you may have experienced it already, read "The Real Deal" lol

Hav fun testing it !

Edit:
just gave the SpecOp light version a try with 100% difficulty, together with my buddy and I think it played out really great !
It was the first time we managed to win in that mode, although admittedly we needed to waste 3 additional slots lol (1 my buddy and 2 myself)

The suitcase was in the most eastern house in the northern Berenzino area next to the lumber mill.
We approached from the west.
Our first death we experienced was when we encountered a 5-7 man patrol using a truck 1 km west Of Berenzino. When we catched a glimpse of the abandoned truck right in front of us on the road we jumped off the bike and engaged the patrol "safe"ing 200 meters away in the field ... well, sort of a warmup  
After that, 2nd approach, we worked our way slowly down through Berenzino towards the supermarket using good covering and close combat techniques.
Finally when we approached the hot area near the suitcase (what we didnt know up to this point) we only survived using really quick moves constantly redeploying positions. Suffered my second death here when getting too chaotic using that technique

I just mentioned that to point out the importance of finding the optimum balance between cautious sneaky movement and risky behaviour with high pace for the required situations.
While I'm sure this is nothing special or new in particular (for you) as it sounds like the standard doctrine for urban combat I must say that I'm impressed how important and immersing this became as true fact for that mission  

[hoz]

Played 2 rounds of this tonite, once we only lasted a few short mins, second went on quite long. we did well on 25% got in and cleared most of the area. we really struggled at finding the General and the case. You might want to consider revealing the general at 25% with a smaller blue circle marker. Maybe include some chatter about the generals whereabouts like 25 mins into the mission something along those lines. We just played for 1h 30 mins  and still weren't able to find him.

I'm not too fond of the team switch. I personally would rather just have group respawn or some combination of revive. I find that I can't switch fast enough and the next unit always seems to die as soon as I switch. I know this can be true for group respawn, but in group respawn, the leader position remains the with the same person and happens in a matter of just a few seconds usually. I know that in SP mode the team switch is usefull but in MP I'm not too fond of it.

Overall I'm really enjoying how this has come together. I really like the randomness, each new location provides a unique experience. Great job.

edit:

Had a couple more goes at this mission. Its really shaping up to be a polished mission. At first I was skeptical of all the randomness, but after successfully completing the mission a couple times now @25% we are ready to move up a level

[Wiper]

Great to know and thanks again for the feedbacks, hoz.
Honestly I think, although not always obvious, your inputs played and still play a major role for polishing up Cipher. So a big part of what Cipher is and maybe will be is due to your efforts and I think its a must therefore to add you to the credits

A new update release is almost done containing some really neat adds and further tunings like
- helo insertion,
- default gear loadout,
- additional ammo crate as a backup,
- reveal function for the case, difficulty dependant (only for < 100%), according to your suggestion
- code module retrieval is now actually featured as intended, task2 actually should be a challenge now if the area isnt clear

[hoz]

Thats why we're here, thats why we beta test and look for opinions from different types of players.
 
I won't get to it till next week as I'll be out of town for about a week.

[hoz]

Ok played 1.33a, and we weren't too impressed with the new beginning part where you have to walk and meet up with the truck. Took a long walk to find the truck and then even longer drive. Rather then add the extra step, why not randomize how the insertion is. Perhaps have one method a helo drop, and the next time its a drive in the truck?

In a second attempt one of us switched spots in the chopper on insertion and the helo took off. So you might want to auto eject everyone in the beginning if you stay with that insertion.

The only other issue we saw was the radio had a 1 entry but the text was blank until the extraction took place. Then it had text.

Oh ya we had an issue with the units which joined our group, team red. For some reason we weren't able to issue orders to them effectively.  Eventually I died and ended up as one of them and the control working.

Also love the hint for the generals location!

You are really using and updating the markers as you go along. great job on that.

[Wiper]

hoz,

Ok played 1.33a, and we weren't too impressed with the new beginning part where you have to walk and meet up with the truck. Took a long walk to find the truck and then even longer drive. Rather then add the extra step, why not randomize how the insertion is. Perhaps have one method a helo drop, and the next time its a drive in the truck?

Well, you must have been really unlucky and the truck probably was placed on a road right within a larger forest area.
The helo normally lands right next to the truck, if there is a suitable spot. If there's not, well .. taking some fresh breathes at times can't hurt  lol

In a second attempt one of us switched spots in the chopper on insertion and the helo took off. So you might want to auto eject everyone in the beginning if you stay with that insertion.

What do you mean with "switch spot" - Team switch ? And why changing spots in the helo at all ?
Sigh yes, its always possible to screw something if trying long enough 
Seriously, I tried all possible variants of auto ejects I know, but they all don't really look and work fine. I have even built in a trick to work around a (possible) ded server bug so that the standard disembark always should do fine.
Also a invulnerable function is pending for all units as long as one is still on board because the chopper in rare instances just lifted off too early (dunno if he still does with the disable AI "move" now)
And honestly, dont you think, if a guy "hops around" inside a real helo whilst the landing procedure is in progress that it might easily be his last chopper trip ?

The only other issue we saw was the radio had a 1 entry but the text was blank until the extraction took place. Then it had text.

Oh ya we had an issue with the units which joined our group, team red. For some reason we weren't able to issue orders to them effectively.  Eventually I died and ended up as one of them and the control working.

Both issues smack very much of client issues. Did you play it on a ded server ?

How did you call the extraction chopper if there wasnt a line entry in the radio ?
Used the in game menu 0-0-1 ? That one is only accessable for the leader which in turn smells of a game glitch as well, cause all team members can use the radio in the map view.

The other issue sounds really odd too. However if the joining of "team red" worked well at the first hand it could also be a game issue, as the mission itself doesn't do anything with those guys after the join besides a domove to the truck..

Also love the hint for the generals location! Cheesy

You are really using and updating the markers as you go along. great job on that.

Thanks

Well, new version is up.
Nasty bug sorted for disabled AI slots in the lobby.

Have fun testing Cipher, maybe more next time.

[hoz]

Well, you must have been really unlucky and the truck probably was placed on a road right within a larger forest area.

You're right the first time the truck landed in a spot covered with forests. All in all it wasn't as bad as I made it out, but you combine that with a long drive with no direct roads and its a pisser of a long trip. Usually we die in the first couple minutes so it adds to the frustration. We take a deep breath and then ease our way in.

What do you mean with "switch spot" - Team switch ? And why changing spots in the helo at all ?Sigh yes, its always possible to screw something if trying long enough...Seriously, I tried all possible variants of auto ejects I know, but they all don't really look and work fine. I have even built in a trick to work around a (possible) ded server bug so that the standard disembark always should do fine.

Not sure if you can prevent the seat switching either. Best solution here is to kick the units out of the helo. I don't think 'looks' in this case out weighs the ability to make sure all the units are out where they should be.

Both issues smack very much of client issues. Did you play it on a ded server ?

We only play on a dedicated server. Its the only way to play
The line in the radio never appeared fully until we had got the case and downloaded the info.  It was just a 1. _____________  and thats it.

Used the in game menu 0-0-1 ? That one is only accessable for the leader which in turn smells of a game glitch as well, cause all team members can use the radio in the map view.

It was accessible for all players.

The other issue sounds really odd too. However if the joining of "team red" worked well at the first hand it could also be a game issue, as the mission itself doesn't do anything with those guys after the join besides a domove to the truck..

You could just have everyone join the same team once they officially join the group.

[Wiper]

Not sure if you can prevent the seat switching either.

Ok, will do, no big deal.

Best solution here is to kick the units out of the helo. I don't think 'looks' in this case out weighs the ability to make sure all the units are out where they should be.

Not only 'looks' it also doesnt 'work' well.
The withdrawal of the insertion chopper depends exclusively on ejecting all units but detect this (in the script) seems to touch some veeery "unstable" game mechanics I think.
Although currently a pretty plain and well working code provides a solid unit/vehicle check you can corrupt it easily with very quick stacked disembark commands and getting out yourself. Doing this the helo lifts off instantly while almost all units are still on board.
The same applied for me using "auto kick out". 3 of 5 times the chopper lifted off too early because something seems unreliable in the vehicle/unit detection especially in MP environement.

And generally, I'd muchly prefer to let have the player the feeling of playing a sim that provides a maximum of freedom of choice rather than a game that robs him of most of his freedom of choice just to ensure that he doesnt do something that screws up his own enjoyment.
If the player jumps out of the helo in the wrong altutude (too low for the chute, too high for a "light wound") that WILL be the end of the game/live of that guy because he just made a wrong decision in the wrong moment (actually there IS a countermeasure to this but thats another point as it deals for the AI).

I'd really like to let it this way and concentrate on other pressing issues than spend another hours and days of coding countermeasures to ensure the player cant do things he should have learned not to do or, if he hasn't already, should be able to learn it in that particular moment.

The line in the radio never appeared fully until we had got the case and downloaded the info.  It was just a 1. _____________  and thats it.

Basically WAD (working as designed), besides that the "1." shouldnt be visible at all. Never noticed that.
The radio doesnt work for some reasons until you fetched the code, but that should be self-evident after reading the briefing.

You could just have everyone join the same team once they officially join the group.

Assigning them as 'red' is simply a service for the player (read: for myself in that case as I often use them just for guarding and redeploying the truck in the back).
But that is of no influence of the cammandability of the units of that team afaik.
I can remove the color/team assignment but that wont change anything to the issue you reported I'm afraid.

edit:

It was just a 1. _____________  and thats it.

Oh ic, you mean the line in the GUI menu. I think it cant be hidden completely, just the text and the functionality.

edit:
new version 1.36 uploaded
contains also a fix that doesnt allow team switching until insertion is finished

[Wiper]

new version uploaded, containing additinal options for group size and player vehicles

v1.37

• added: SP options for team size.
• added: options for player vehicles.
• added: supply depot randomly somewhere near the approach path.
• improved: options dialog.
• fixed: wrong daylight emphasis notations in the briefing hints.
• fixed: insertion markers misplaced for JIP'ing players.

have fun !

[hoz]

Are you done updating this mission, is it ready for a review?

[Wiper]

Well I just uploaded a (hopefully) final version, so lets put it this way:
If you are fancy for a last test round and don't find any showstoppers or noticable issues using v1.38, feel free to go for it.
If a noticable issue creeps up in that last test run, just gimme a chance to fix it for a final 1.39.

If you dont like to test it at all once again, assume v1.38 as final and take it for a review anyways

Thanks a lot  & have fun !

[hoz]

Ok gave it a try and it played flawlessly. Except... the new feature of starting vehicles.. we chose the attack vehicles and we couldn't get all the units into the allocated vehicles. Do they all fit? I would think of adding a third pickup.

Other then that everything worked as it should

[Wiper]

Smelling a bug. Depending on units count there always should be enough vehicles available.
Will have a look into that.
Also in SP mode people reported that the insertion chopper sometimes (under certain conditions) freezes at mid air...
Hope I can reproduce that soon and fix it too.
Thanks for the report !