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Author Topic: mission submission down?  (Read 3852 times)

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Offline Archangel Scream

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Re:mission submission down?
« Reply #15 on: 15 Oct 2002, 10:21:16 »
im an advanced player and i know what the player wants

Being an "advanced" player has nothing to do with being an "advanced" mission builder. The two concepts are quite different.

And do you really know what a player wants?? You're next statement suggests not:

i dont need some super unknown telling me "this is what a player wants, or that is what a player wants to see".

That's called feedback. If you can't handle that then you don't know what players want. Every player wants something different, but every player wants a challenge properly presented. If you can't hack that then we shouldn't expect anything too accomplished.

Besides, I've tried to make a point of mission builders being unaware of errors in their construction. If you can't even be bothered to have people check for that then why should anyone want to bother playing your mission, let alone review it?

i was making massive, complex doom maps(tho you cant compare doom to ofp, it is one of the forefathers of 3d gaming) while a lot of you were picking your nose and wiping it under the desk in 3rd grade.

Yeah, and the dooms maps are easy. And Doom was 2-D. But if you want to get technical, the father of 3-D games was quite possibly "And Attack" on the Spectrum 48k.

And who cares what you did in school? If you want to be judged on your missions. then other people supply that judgement - not yourself.

if u guys test and test and test a mission b4 its released then all suprises and suspense is lost that the person might have had for you.

The surprises are usually the errors. Nothing good there.


Listen, Azraell, I've encountered a number of people claiming to be so great and accomplished at mission building - but when it came to reviewing not a single one could even construct conmpetently - mostly because of lack of beta-testing.

The really good builders quietly release their work, and then have praise heaped on them.

When it comes to beta-testing, don't simply post in the beta-testing forum - what you really need is to pass it on to a small group of people you can trust to critically test for you.






Offline Sefe

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Re:mission submission down?
« Reply #16 on: 15 Oct 2002, 13:16:55 »
Listen, Azraell, I've encountered a number of people claiming to be so great and accomplished at mission building - but when it came to reviewing not a single one could even construct conmpetently - mostly because of lack of beta-testing.

Archangel_Scream, don't be so quick with your judgements. You haven't played the mission, right? Maybe it's the best mission of the world and works flawlessly. Your statement is out of place and somewhat offending.

Offline Archangel Scream

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Re:mission submission down?
« Reply #17 on: 15 Oct 2002, 14:19:52 »

Sefe -

I'm not saying that his mission is going to be bad. I'm saying that in my experience, those who brag about how great their first mission is going to be usually overlook a series of silly errors that seriously flaw their attempt.

That may sound harsh, but it's quite true.

As I've tried to state, beta-testing is essential to deal with such issues and address them. Even then, it's not a flawless process - but it should allow the more major problems to be corrected.






Azraell

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Re:mission submission down?
« Reply #18 on: 15 Oct 2002, 14:48:17 »
hey scream, you point out where i said i was a great and accomplished mission builder? funny u dont have a quote for that and i didnt say it was the greatest mission either, i didnt say father of 3d, i said forefather, meaning it got everybody hot over fps....from which 3rd person games erupted , the craze wasnt started by castle wolfenstein, thats for sure! and when you got over 10000 vertices and over 100 triggers in a doom map, then yes it gets hard to track em and figure problems out. you cant stuff everything that every1 wants into 1 mission, if your gonna do that then u might as well make a super omega mission with every possible way of play the game....different ppl like different stuff, i for 1 hate specops missions in ofp, ill play rouge spear for stealthy stuff b4 i play ofp for stealthy stuff, but for raw warfare, i turn towards ofp, some like helo missions or, godforbid, a-10 missions. dont ever send an application into EGM, since you like condeming missions b4 you even play them, youd be giving everything 0's......... Skaven, im not trying to be hard on you guys, just at scream. im not trying to be some professional mission maker here, i just wanted to do it for fun and upload them somewhere. hell, im learning more than i really wanted to,all trigs in my mission run off logics(didnt want some1 running everywhere setting off trigs early) custom music,heavy duty camera scripts, but when i get it done done finally, i get some1 like scream stating that its most likely filled with errors and sucks and should be tested ....you didnt say that but thats what you meant, im not some freaking moron that cant read between the lines! now you pissed me off, must smoke now b4 i put fist thru monitor....... sry to u other dudes for making ripples...

Captain Wacky

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Re:mission submission down?
« Reply #19 on: 15 Oct 2002, 15:05:36 »
Yo, Azreall. Calm down mate! I'm sure that you think your mission is great. Notice I said, "You think." Archangel_Scream, Skaven, Anmac and Sefe are all here for one reason: To help people out. So, you've built Doom maps? Why mention Doom? OFP is entirely different in almost every way in its editing. I've learnt by reading the various comments of the Beta Testing board that this is the most vital thing you need to do to a mission. Get it tested by OFP players. When people play missions they notice bugs easily. You may play your mission and think "This is great! I'm the greatest Editor in the World!" Then, you submit it. It gets 3 out of 10. Why? Because the reviewer didn't play it the way you wanted it to be played. He found the most large, horrible bug ever! That is why beta testing is useful. Because people tell you the bugs THEY find. So that you can fix it. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not putting you down. Your mission COULD BE awesome. But, without beta testing 99 times out 100 it won't be.

Skaven

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Re:mission submission down?
« Reply #20 on: 15 Oct 2002, 16:11:29 »
Well I'm sorry but I didn't mean it sucks or that it was full of errors,trust me you don't have to be much good to be better than me making missions, so I would never say that, essencialy because of a metter of respect and logic  ;)
But if you took it that way, than please accept my apologies because I didn't want to mean that, I just wanned to state that beta testers are needed, but i respect your opinion if you don't agree,still,and  if you decide to beta test your mission, well it would be an honour to test it for you  ;)

Offline Archangel Scream

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Re:mission submission down?
« Reply #21 on: 15 Oct 2002, 16:53:35 »

Azraell -

No problem - be as hard on me as you like - not taken personally here.

My comments to yourself aren't intended to be personal either.

I guess I should ask you to just ignore whatever I've written, because I can condense it all to just a single sentence -

Do try to get it beta-tested, otherwise you may be letting yourself down.

That fair enough?

Not intending to sound like I've singled this to yourself - it's an essential point for any mission builder, regardless of experience.

What's frustrating is watching people with the skills build a mission full of scripts, only to find some simple oversight flaws the mission.

OFP is great, but it does have limits, and that's the hardest thing to work within.

When you've finished building the mission, if you can zip it somewhere on the web, then I can try and download it for next week and give it a run through and some feedback.

Arch






RED

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Re:mission submission down?
« Reply #22 on: 15 Oct 2002, 22:02:24 »
Beta testing is very important, I agree with Archangel Scream on this because on my mission he reviewed he spotted a number of mistakes I didn't notice.

As mission submission is down you may aswell get it tested out can't do any harm.

RED  

Anmac

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Re:mission submission down?
« Reply #23 on: 16 Oct 2002, 06:10:59 »

Now, that last post by Arch was a much better approach.

We can all learn from this topic.

How you respond to a post can be meant one way but come out rather differently.

 :o

In my view, as a mission designer, beta testing is worth its weight in gold.  But that is my opinion.  You don't have to make any or all of the changes suggested by the testers, but at least you will have other players approaching the mission in a different way than the author.

That is how bugs the author never comes across are found.

Testing is not compulsory, but is recommended.

At the end of the day, it's your mission.  As long as it meets the OFPEC requirements for submission, it will be reviewed.

Happy gaming.

Please lock this topic as it has served its purpose.

 ;)

Backoff

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Re:mission submission down?
« Reply #24 on: 16 Oct 2002, 11:18:30 »
As requested, topic locked  :)