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Author Topic: How far do mission reviewers go?  (Read 4101 times)

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Offline Sui

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Re:How far do mission reviewers go?
« Reply #15 on: 02 May 2005, 03:09:25 »
Oi... everybody drop it please. Right now.

Offline Morglor9

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Re:How far do mission reviewers go?
« Reply #16 on: 02 May 2005, 04:59:58 »
The readme is for communicating with the player, not the reviewer.   You shouldn't need to communicate specially with the reviewer, but in this particular case all that needs to be done is make the reviewer aware that there is more to this mission than meets the eye.

Perhaps a separate .txt file entitled "For The Reviewer" alongside the Readme would solve the problem.
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Offline THobson

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Re:How far do mission reviewers go?
« Reply #17 on: 02 May 2005, 08:01:45 »
I think any file that is 'Top secret do not open - this is only for someone else to look at' would be like a candle to a moth for most people.  It certainly would be for me.

I am convinced there will be an easy solution (from an IM exchange with the reviewer to putting it all in a password protected Word document -   I might even write a little encription program, encript the file and only give the reviewer the key  I realise I could just use IM for the document, but as a closet programmer this would allow me another fix.)

I have started writing the document and there is a lot in it that I would be very happy to share with other mission makers, but only after they have played it.  Reading it through they really are spoilers.  Having said that any serious mission maker would de-pbo it and then unpick the logic - IMing me on anything they didn't understand.

I am relaxed about this.  There will be a solution.  It was a thought that was in the back of my mind when I saw the title to this thread so I just jumped in, with the added benefit that it has reduced the average temerature around here. ::)

Offline Wolfsbane

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Re:How far do mission reviewers go?
« Reply #18 on: 07 May 2005, 15:18:27 »
*Leaps in through the closed window*

More input from moi.

When I first came to OFPEC, way back in the days of the original concept5.com site, and it was Karls Mission Depot that was running things on a seperate site, it was a different world indeed.

Once we took on Karls work, and intergrated it, and I became a Mission bod, I tried to set down quite firm standards on how you should review a mission.
Here's what I used to do when I was reviewing:

Start off by checking briefings, images used, readmes, addons, etcetc, and noting all these, for points of clarity, detail and so on.
Once I got into the mission I used to have a £5 dictaphone sitting on the table beside me, and I'd dictate into it, points as I came across them, such as how the start was, the scripting, any intros, etcetc.
This meant I didn't have to keep alt-tabbing to write in Notepad or something.

When it came to playing the     , I'd play it the way the author designed it. Following the obvious choices, and sticking to the 'rules'.

Once I'd completed the Mission, I'd then write up the review, taking in all the points I'd noted.

I'd then try to break the Mission.

By that, I'd try to skip around markers, waypoints, and screw the Mission around to see if I could beat it.

Classic example I remember, was the highly ove -      Mission by Devilchaser, where you had to kill three super warriors. Right at the start, I ran them all over in a UAZ.

That's breaking the Mission.

I'd then re-write the review, taking into note these points as well, to give a balanced review.

I'd then phaff around a bit and see what fun and replayability the mission had.

To review one mission properly, could take anything up to and over thirty minutes to and hour, easy.

It's also about being harsh and being nasty. I've had missions I've scored zero, I've had missions I've sent back to the author with screaming abuse as a letter, because he'd put a cutscene in, which during the playing of, your character would be shot by AI soldiers still moving around!!! That reeks of not trying to beta test.

The scoring goes as Macguba said, from the titivation of a briefing affecting it very slightly, and the scripting being rubbish, having it flung back in your face.

Quote
Now if I were to explain all these in the readme file it would seriously impact on the experience I am trying to create for the player - but clearly if the mission is to get a balanced review the reviewer should be made aware of these features.

Any good reviewer will notice these without being told. If they don't, it raises the question of their reviewing ability. Put them in, but give the mission a catchphrase with something like: "With added Reality!" which will get people looking out for it. :)

I also noticed the bitching here, I don't have time to read it all, I'm a busy soldier, but guys, keep it clean, keep it happy, keep it sweet, and if that fails, go round his house and smash his head in.

:D

Reviewing should be in depth, but people don't always put the time in, people don't always put the effort in, scores can be hideously off the mark, but at the end of the day, it's a personal opinion (Which should be a neutral opinion!) designed to make finding a mission for you to play, just a bit easier. Use the score as a bookmark to find the mission, then read the review and then look at the addons required.

That's how I find a mission I want to play.

« Last Edit: 07 May 2005, 15:21:32 by Wolfsbane »
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Offline THobson

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Re:How far do mission reviewers go?
« Reply #19 on: 13 May 2005, 00:26:33 »
Quote
Now if I were to explain all these in the readme file it would seriously impact on the experience I am trying to create for the player - but clearly if the mission is to get a balanced review the reviewer should be made aware of these features.
 

Any good reviewer will notice these without being told.
I beg to differ.  I am talking about a mission that will require anything from 8 to 20 hours of mission time (not playing time) to complete and which because of its design would need to be played several times before all the logical possibilites could have been exhausted and that is assuming the reviewer knows what all these possibilities all are.  I currently have a 12 page word document (and it will grow with the next beta version) of 'spoilers' -  things that I do not expect even the best review to notice more than a fraction of.  I would be very happy to share this with you privately to see if you still think I am wrong.

Just in case my tone of voice is not clear :) :) :)
« Last Edit: 13 May 2005, 00:40:55 by THobson »

Offline Mikero

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Re:How far do mission reviewers go?
« Reply #20 on: 13 May 2005, 01:04:31 »
ok, in an obvious bit of self promotion for the beta board I hope everyone here will see the logic in what I quote below

Quote
of all the missions we get only 50% are worthy of being reviewed rest are just too crap and out of the remaining 50% only a few manage good scores and are enjoyable. For me as a reviewer its very tiresome and disheartening to write the same stuff again and again advising the author about his mistakes often too common and basic and to learn to rectify them and give some thought next time more on the mission design etc etc.... its a thorughly rehearsed rhetoric by me i have to launch in to 70% of the time  


Quote
70% of the time its complex-crap and that can really burn you down as a reviewer especially if your the only SP reviewer around and got to review every mission sent in

Because it's complex crap it should be passed thru for many hands make easy work.

I really could pick and quote every sentence, every phrase of the above quotes, but for goodness sake, gentlemen, the answers for me, glare obvious.

The mere fact that a mission gets passed through indicates the opposite, it has NOT passed. That alone alerts the mission maker that he has a problem. The reviewer need hardly make furthur comment to the maker if he doesn't want to.

If maker doesn't care, it's the right call in the 1st place (and saves the reviewer a lot of agony mail). If it's truly crap, it wont survive in there and will drop out of sight, real soon.

If there's all the usual problems then all the usual problems will be listed by one or many testers rather than the reviewer rehearsing the same old lines.

And, to answer Thobon's query, if the reviewer missed the 'spoilers', it will, utlimately, get passed back out of the beta board telling the reviewer he got it wrong in a far nicer way than one on one hate-mail.

I've said my piece on this, it's my 2 cents, and I apoligise for pushing my barrow.
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Offline penguinman

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Re:How far do mission reviewers go?
« Reply #21 on: 13 May 2005, 02:10:51 »
well, im not following this really but i heard when macguba said this in his first post on this topic

Quote
Major cock-ups result in an IM to the author describing the problem and giving him two weeks to fix it.  If he does, well and good.  If not, the mission is deleted.  (We're not harsh though, if he replies and says can I have a bit longer that's fine.)    

well i submited a mission alls good and everything no problems fully beta tested,  

So I submit it and its pending

a mission reviewer(chrisbonowhich or somthing) posted a coment on it and sent me a IM saying that I shouldnt be submiting it if i havent posted it on the beta testing board but I dont understand what he is talking about because I did beta test it. and I know 2 people who beta tested it several times in the ofpec beta testing board and will vouch for me.

so i put a coment on the mission saying that it was beta tested but he never responded.  I dont want my mission to get deleted.

what am I suposed to do.

here it is
http://www.ofpec.com/missions_depot/index.php?ID=1258

« Last Edit: 13 May 2005, 02:13:38 by penguinman »

Offline The-Architect

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Re:How far do mission reviewers go?
« Reply #22 on: 13 May 2005, 11:35:17 »
I am chrisbobnorwich.
The reason I said what I did was because of the way you worded your message, here's a quote.

"This is my first test so I dont know if somthings wrong or not but I have external addons listed and they dont show up "

Because I speak queens english I understood it to mean that it was a first test.
However, I later read that that was not what you meant. That's fair enough.
Nobody is going to delete your mission because of what I put into the comments box. That's not how it works.

Please don't think that I need to write a response. I understood after you clarified it. That's good enough for me. Anyone reading the comments should understand that too. No drama.
James Andrew Wilkinson 1977 - 2005 R.I.P.
"If it ain't the friggin' incoming it's the friggin' outgoing. Only difference is who gets the friggin' grease, and that ain't no friggin' difference at all."

Offline penguinman

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Re:How far do mission reviewers go?
« Reply #23 on: 14 May 2005, 00:05:25 »
lol, ok just wanted to make sure

but i just realised, you were one of the people who had beta tested it. ;)