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Author Topic: How do scripting commands behave in MP?  (Read 15459 times)

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Offline Zombie

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #30 on: 03 Apr 2005, 14:22:24 »
I have found that the most important thing you can do in MP maps, is to make a game logic and name it   server   .  This will almost magically solve many MP issues.  As for the createvehicle, only run it on the server, and it will appear on all connected comps.  The first line should be:
?!(local server):exit
  And as stated above, publicvariable is also one of the most important commands

hermano

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #31 on: 06 Jul 2005, 16:53:35 »
Setdamage (and Setdammage) does not revitalize a dead (non player) unit when there is respawn and the unit was registered as dead (killed eventhandler triggered, alive unit returns false).
It will actually revitalize the unit if it is immediatly triggered when damage unit reaches 1 (but then killed eventhandler won't fire, alive returns true).

Will not work:
Code: [Select]
@!alive _unit
_unit setdamage 0

Will work:
Code: [Select]
@damage _unit >= 1
_unit setdamage 0

Took quite some time and nerves to find out what was wrong.
h

« Last Edit: 07 Jul 2005, 14:32:10 by hermano »

Offline General Barron

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #32 on: 06 Jul 2005, 20:19:25 »
I knew somebody had to have figured most of this stuff out before. Turns out Spinor from CoC made a nice little reference about commands in MP. I got it from Crashdome, who is supposedly going to fix it up and post it in the ed depot. In the meantime, here it is:

Quote
Compiled by Spinor for Coc
With input from bn880,CrashDome,Dinger

Tested on OFP 1.96 (Non-dedicated server + one client)


Notes:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
local  
  ->   this is a command that is completely local i.e. its argument(s) must be
    local and both its result and/or effect are only local,
    naturally, all mathematical and logical commands belong to this group,
    the same is true for all interface stuff like dialogs etc.


constant
  ->  this denotes a constant value, hence the same on all machines


works on (non)local obj/unit/grp/vehicle
  ->  this command works no matter if the obj/unit/grp/vehicle is local on this
    machine or not; beware though: results/effects may differ due to lag/desynch
    between machines


works on (non)local obj, but has only local effect
  ->  although this command also works on both local and nonlocal objects,
    its effect is only local, i.e. it is not synchronized between machines
    EXAMPLE: sideChat, sideRadio etc.


works only on local obj/unit/grp/vehicle, (temp)
  ->  this command is only funcional if applied on a obj/unit/grp/vehicle
    that is local to this machine;
    temp signifies that the command may be applied to a nonlocal object
    but the effect is only shortlived: it will be removed during synchro




Command List:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- a        local
a - b        local
arrayA - arrayB      local
! a        local
a != b        local
side1 != side2      local
a != b        local
obj1 != obj2      works on (non)local objects
grp1 != grp2      works on (non)local groups
a % b        local
a && b        local
a * b        local
a / b        local
a ^ b        local
a || b        local
stringA + stringB    local
arrayA + arrayB      local
+ a        local
a + b        local
a < b        local
a <= b        local
grp1 == grp2      works on (non)local groups
side1 == side2      local
a == b        local
obj1 == obj2      works on (non)local objects
a == b        local
a > b        local
a >= b        local


A
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
abs x        local
accTime       always 1 in MP
acos x        local
unit action action    works only on local unit (tested only with "EJECT")
unit addAction action    works only on local unit, temp
object addEventHandler handler  works on (non)local unit, has local effect (added handler executes only on local machine)
unit addMagazine weaponName  works only on local unit, temp
unit addMagazineCargo magazines  works on (non)local unit, but has only local effect, i.e. added items are only visible on local machine
addMagazinePool Null    non-functional in MP
unit addRating number    works only on local unit, temp
unit addScore score    works on (non)local unit, but has only local effect
unit addWeapon weaponName  works only on local unit, temp
unit addWeaponCargo weapons  works on (non)local unit, but has only local effect, i.e. added items are only visible on local machine
addWeaponPool [name, count]  non-functional in MP
alive obj      works on (non)local unit
unit allowFleeing courage  ?????
unitArray allowGetIn allow  ?????
unit ammo magazine    works on (non)local unit
a and b        local
object animate [animation, phase]  ?????
object animationPhase animation  ?????
asin x        local
soldier assignAsCargo vehicle  ?????
soldier assignAsCommander vehicle  ?????
soldier assignAsDriver vehicle  ?????
soldier assignAsGunner vehicle  ?????
atan x        local
x atan2 y      local
atg x        local


B
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
behaviour unit      works on (non)local unit
benchmark       local, returns benchmark of local machine
building buildingPos index  works on (non)local building, i.e. also on clients
buttonAction idc    local
buttonSetAction [idc, action]  local


C
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cadetMode      constant
pars call body      local
call code      local
camera camCommand command  local
camera camCommit time    local
camCommitted camera    local
type camCreate position    local
camDestroy camera    local
camera cameraEffect effect  local
cameraOn      local
camera camSetBank bank    local
camera camSetDir direction  local
camera camSetDive dive    local
camera camSetFov fieldOfView  local
camera camSetFovRange fovRange  local
camera camSetPos position  local
camera camSetRelPos position  local
camera camSetTarget position  local
camera camSetTarget target  local
canFire vehicle      works on (non)local vehicle
canMove vehicle      works on (non)local vehicle
canStand soldier    works on (non)local unit
captive unit      works on (non)local unit
civilian       constant
clearMagazineCargo unit    works on (non)local unit, but has only local effect
clearMagazinePool     non-functional in MP
clearWeaponCargo unit    works on (non)local unit, but has only local effect
clearWeaponPool     non-functional in MP
closeDialog idc      local
combatMode grp      works on (non)local unit/grp
commander vehicle    works on (non)local vehicle
unit commandFire target    works only on local unit, temp
unit commandFollow formationLeader  works only on local unit
unit commandMove position  works on (non)local unit
commandStop unit    works on (non)local unit
unit commandTarget position  works only on local unit
unit commandWatch position  works only on local unit
unit commandWatch target  works only on local unit
comment comment      local
cos x        local
condition count array    local
count array      local
unit countEnemy array    works on (non)local unit
unit countFriendly array  works on (non)local unit
side countSide array    works on (non)local unit
typeName countType array  works on (non)local unit
unit countUnknown array    works on (non)local unit
createDialog name    local
type createUnit unitInfo  works on (non)local spawn group, has global effect, Init line is executed on all machines (with caveats)
type createVehicle pos    has global effect
crew vehicle      works on (non)local vehicle
ctrlEnable [idc, enable]  local
ctrlEnabled idc      local
ctrlSetText [idc, text]    local
ctrlShow [idc, show]    local
ctrlText idc      local
ctrlVisible idc      local
cutObj effect      local
cutRsc effect      local
cutText effect      local


D
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
damage object      works on (non)local object, rounding error on nonlocal object
daytime       returns local time of day, can differ between machines (skiptime and desynch!!)
deg x        local
deleteIdentity identityName  non-functional in MP
deleteStatus statusName    non-functional in MP
deleteVehicle object    works on (non)local unit?, causes game freeze in console?
dialog         local
direction object    works on (non)local unit
unit disableAI section    works only on local unit
disableUserInput disable  local
obj1 distance obj2    works on (non)local objects
while do code      local
unit doFire target    works only on local unit
unit doFollow position    works only on local unit
unit doMove position    works on (non)local unit
doStop unit       works on (non)local unit
unit doTarget position    works only on local unit
unit doWatch position    works only on local unit
unit doWatch target    works only on local unit
driver vehicle      works on (non)local vehicle
drop array      local effect


E
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
east        constant
ifCode else elseCode    local
enableEndDialog     local effect
enableRadio enable    local effect
enemy         local
vehicle engineOn bool    works only on local vehicle, temp
estimatedTimeLeft timeLeft  ?????
argument exec script    local
exit         local
exp x        local


F
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
time fadeMusic volume    local effect
time fadeSound volume    local effect
false         constant
fillWeaponsFromPool person  non-functional in MP
unit fire weaponName    works on (non)local unit, direction of fire not synchronized?
unit fire array      works on (non)local unit, direction of fire not synchronized?
flag unit      ?????
flagowner flag      ?????
fleeing unit      works on (non)local unit
helicopter flyInHeight height  works only on local vehicle
forceEnd       ?????
forceMap show      local
command forEach array    local
format format      local
formation grp      works on (non)local grp
formLeader unit      works on (non)local unit
friendly       local
fuel vehicle      works on (non)local vehicle


G
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
getDammage obj      works on (non)local obj, rounding error on nonlocal obj
getDir obj      works on (non)local obj
getMarkerColor marker    local
getMarkerPos markerName    local
getMarkerSize marker    local
getMarkerType marker    local
getPos obj      works on (non)local unit
getWPPos waypoint    works on (non)local group
unit globalChat chatText  works on (non)local unit, but has only local effect
unit globalRadio radioName  works on (non)local unit, but has only local effect
goto label      local
group obj      works on (non)local obj
unit groupChat chatText    works on (non)local unit, but has only local effect
unit groupRadio radioName  works on (non)local unit, but has only local effect
grpNull       local
gunner vehicle      works on (non)local vehicle


H
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
handsHit soldier    works on (non)local unit
unit hasWeapon weaponName  works on (non)local unit
hint text      local effect
hintC text      local effect
hintCadet text      local effect


I
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if condition      local
x in array      local
soldier in vehicle    works on (non)local unit/vehicle
fireplace inflame burn    works on (non)local fireplace
inflamed fireplace    works on (non)local fireplace
isEngineOn vehicle    works on (non)local vehicle
isNull grp      works on (non)local grp
isNull obj      works on (non)local obj


J
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
unitArray join group    works on (non)local unitArray/group


K
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
unit knowsAbout target    works properly only on local unit, targer can be nonlocal


L
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
helicopter land mode    works only on local vehicle
lbAdd [idc, text]    local
lbClear idc      local
lbColor [idc, index]    local
lbCurSel idc      local
lbData [idc, index]    local
lbDelete [idc, index]    local
lbPicture [idc, index]    local
lbSetColor [idc, index, color]  local
lbSetCurSel [idc, index]  local
lbSetData [idc, index, data]  local
lbSetPicture [idc, index, name]  local
lbSetValue [idc, index, value]  local
lbSize idc      local
lbText [idc, index]    local
lbValue [idc, index]    local
leader unit      works on (non)local unit
leader grp      works on (non)local grp
group leaveVehicle vehicle  works only on local group/unit
lightIsOn lamppost    ?????
list trigger      triggers are synchronized, hence should returns globally synchronized result, sequence may differ
ln x        local
loadFile filename    local
person loadIdentity name  non-functional in MP
object loadStatus name    non-functional in MP
local obj      returns locality status of obj, hence local result
localize stringName    local result, depending on language setting of machine
vehicle lock lock    works only on local vehicle, temp
locked unit      works on (non)local unit
group lockWP lockWP    works only on local group
log x        local


M
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
magazines vehicle    works on (non)local vehicle
mapAnimAdd frame    local
mapAnimClear       local
mapAnimCommit       local
mapAnimDone       local
markerColor markerName    local
markerPos markerName    local
markerSize markerName    local
markerType markerName    local
missionName       global, the same on all machines
missionStart       local, may slightly differ between machines
a mod b        local
group move pos      works only on local group
soldier moveInCargo vehicle  works only on local unit
soldier moveInCommander vehicle  works only on local unit
soldier moveInDriver vehicle  works only on local unit
soldier moveInGunner vehicle  works only on local unit
musicVolume       local


N
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
name object      works on (non)local object
nearestBuilding obj    works on (non)local obj
nearestObject pos    also finds nonlocal objects
nil         local
not a        local


O
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
object id      correctly points to map object also on clients
objNull       constant
objective objStatus status  local
onBriefingGear sound    local
onBriefingGroup sound    local
onBriefingNotes sound    local
onBriefingPlan sound    local
onMapSingleClick command  local
a or b        local
unitArray orderGetIn order  only works on local unit


P
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pi        constant
pickWeaponPool obj    non-functional in MP
player         local, player on this machine
playersNumber side    returns playable units per side, same on all machines, always zero in SP
soldier playMove moveName  only works on local unit, effect is then global
playMusic name      local effect
playMusic nameAndPos    local effect
playSound name      local effect
position object      works on (non)local obj
preprocessFile filename    local
primaryWeapon vehicle    works on (non)local unit
private variableName    local
private variableNameList  local
publicVariable varName    synchronizes varName on all machines with value on local machine
putWeaponPool obj    non-functional in MP


Q
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
queryMagazinePool name    non-functional in MP
queryWeaponPool name    non-functional in MP


R
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rad x        local
random x      local
rating unit      works on (non)local unit
unit removeAction index    only works on local unit
object removeAllEventHandlers handlerType  works on (non)local unit, effect is local
removeAllWeapons unit    only works on local unit
object removeEventHandler handler  works on (non)local unit, effect is local
unit removeMagazine weaponName  only works on local unit
unit removeMagazines weaponName  only works on local unit
unit removeWeapon weaponName  only works on local unit
requiredVersion version    local effect, depending on OFP version on machine
resistance       constant
array resize count    local
group reveal unit    works on (non)local group/unit


S
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
saveGame      non-functional in MP
person saveIdentity name  non-functional in MP
object saveStatus name    non-functional in MP
saveVar varName      non-functional in MP
unit say speechName    works on (non)local unit, but is local in its effect
score unit      works on (non)local group/unit, but results can differ between machines due to non-synchro of addScore
scudState scud      ?????
secondaryWeapon vehicle    works on (non)local unit
array select index    local
unit selectWeapon weapon  ?????
array set element    local
setAccTime accFactor    non-functional in MP
vehicle setAmmoCargo ammoCargo  ?????
group setBehaviour behaviour  only works on local unit/group, temp
person setCaptive captive  only works on local unit, temp
group setCombatMode mode  only works on local group, temp
object setDamage damage    works on (non)local obj, rounding error on nonlocal obj
obj setDammage dammage    works on (non)local obj, rounding error on nonlocal obj
obj setDir heading    only works on local obj, temp
person setFace soldier    works on (non)local unit, but effect is only local
person setFaceAnimation blink  works on (non)local unit, but effect is only local
flag setFlagOwner owner    ?????
flag setFlagSide side    ?????
flag setFlagTexture texture  ?????
time setFog fog      local effect, not synchronized!
group setFormation formation  only works on local group, temp
group setFormDir heading  only works on local group, temp
vehicle setFuel ammount    only works on local vehicle, temp
vehicle setFuelCargo ammount  ?????
group setGroupId id    works on (non)local group, but effect is only local
person setIdentity identity  ?????
marker setMarkerColor color  local
markerName setMarkerPos pos  local
marker setMarkerSize size  local
markerName setMarkerType markerType  local
person setMimic mimic    works on (non)local unit, but effect is only local
object setObjectTexture texture  ?????
time setOvercast overcast  local effect, not synchronized
obj setPos pos      works on (non)local unit
index setRadioMsg text    local
time setRain rainDensity  local effect, not synchrinized
vehicle setRepairCargo ammount  ?????
vehicle setSkill skill    only works on local unit, temp
group setSpeedMode mode    only works on local group, temp
setTerrainGrid grid    local effect, not synchronized!
unit setUnitPos mode    only works on local unit
vehicle setVelocity [x, z, y]  only works on local object
setViewDistance distance  local effect, not synchronized!
waypoint setWPPos position  only works on local group
showCinemaBorder show    local
showCompass show    local
showGps show      local
showMap show      local
shownCompass       local
shownGps       local
shownMap       local
shownPad       local
shownRadio       local
shownWarrant       local
shownWatch       local
showPad show      local
showRadio show      local
showWarrant show    local
showWatch show      local
side unit      works on (non)local unit
unit sideChat chatText    works on (non)local unit, but effect is only local
unit sideRadio radioName  works on (non)local unit, but effect is only local
sin x        local
skill person      works on (non)local unit, rounding error on nonlocal unit
skipTime duration    local effect, not synchronized!
sliderPosition idc    local
sliderRange idc      local
sliderSetPosition [idc, pos]  local
sliderSetRange [idc, min, max]  local
sliderSetSpeed [idc, line, page]local
sliderSpeed idc      local
someAmmo unit      works on (non)local unit
soundVolume       local
speed obj      works on (non)local obj
speedMode grp      works on (non)local grp
sqrt x        local
unit stop stop      works only on local unit
stopped unit      works only on local unit
unit switchCamera mode    works on (non)local unit, but effect is only local
lamppost switchLight mode  ?????
soldier switchMove moveName  works on (non)local unit, but when used on nonlocal unit, effect is also only local


T
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tan x        local    
tg x        local
if then else      local
if then codeToExecute    local
time         local, may slightly differ between machines
titleCut effect      local effect
titleObj effect      local effect
titleRsc effect      local effect
titleText effect    local effect
true         constant
typeOf obj      works on (non)local obj


U
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
unassignVehicle unit    only works on local unit
unitReady unit      works on (non)local unit
units unit      works on (non)local unit
units grp      works on (non)local grp


V
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
vehicle unit      works on (non)local unit
unit vehicleChat chatText  works on (non)local unit, but effect is only local
unit vehicleRadio radioName  works on (non)local unit, but effect is only local
velocity vehicle    works on (non)local unit


W
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
waypointPosition waypoint  works on (non)local group
weapons vehicle      works on (non)local unit
west         constant
while condition      local

However, as demonstrated by hermano and many other's posts, there are quite a few little "irks" in the way commands behave in MP, aside from whether they have local or global effects. So please, other input is still extremely welcome. :)
HANDSIGNALS COMMAND SYSTEM-- A realistic squad-control modification for OFP
kexp.org-- The best radio station in the world, right here at home! Listen to John Richards!

hermano

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #33 on: 07 Jul 2005, 14:22:02 »
Great list,
thanks General, CrashDome!
By the way, I'm not sure if the info about savestatus is right, it seems to work for vehicles and gamelogics (at least the damage of the vehicle can be saved and restored, for gamelogics also skill  afaik). Won't work for man (and child objects).
h
« Last Edit: 07 Jul 2005, 14:30:57 by hermano »

Offline General Barron

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #34 on: 08 Jul 2005, 01:09:27 »
Great list,
thanks General, CrashDome!
By the way, I'm not sure if the info about savestatus is right, it seems to work for vehicles and gamelogics (at least the damage of the vehicle can be saved and restored, for gamelogics also skill  afaik). Won't work for man (and child objects).
h
Ha! You're sharp. Crashdome even posted a comment about that (in the forums where he posted this). His SOW mod uses savestatus extensively to allow saving across MP missions, so obviously it works in MP. Didn't know about the specific limitations you mentioned though ;)
HANDSIGNALS COMMAND SYSTEM-- A realistic squad-control modification for OFP
kexp.org-- The best radio station in the world, right here at home! Listen to John Richards!

Offline Fragorl

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #35 on: 08 Jul 2005, 02:31:44 »
A good find, General Barron!

This list confirms most if not all of the commands that were previously mentioned in this thread, which is always nice :)

EDIT:
I'm still a bit hazy on camcreate versus createvehicle- the list here definitely says they are different, with createvehicle being global, camcreate being local, but I still found them to behave in exactly the same when I ran my 2 person lan test. A shell camcreated on the server-side only killed both players. Placing a "T80" createvehicle ... in the initfield of a unit created 2 t80s, each visible from both players. Substituting createvehicle for camcreate once again produced 2 T80s, each visible from both players.
« Last Edit: 08 Jul 2005, 02:38:35 by Fragorl »

Offline Garcia

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #36 on: 08 Jul 2005, 03:17:30 »
Indeed, createvehicle can't be totally global, cause you will get 1 vehicle for every client+server...which is annoying :-\

Offline General Barron

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #37 on: 08 Jul 2005, 05:42:26 »
To really see the difference between the two, you should set up a mission with a scripting console (Vectorboson's is a good one). Commands typed into the console will only be executed on that specific client.

Using the camcreate command will make an object that is only visible on the machine the command was run from. Using the createvehicle command in the same situation will make the object visible on ALL clients.

Quote
A shell camcreated on the server-side only killed both players.

I haven't experienced or confirmed this myself. However, that would be a special exception for the server only. Camcreating shells on clients creates a shell that does no damage.

Quote
Placing a "T80" createvehicle ... in the initfield of a unit created 2 t80s, each visible from both players. Substituting createvehicle for camcreate once again produced 2 T80s, each visible from both players.
Init fields are run on EVERY client. So the camcreate and createvehicle commands were run twice: once on each client, resulting in 2 vehicles total.

Okay, now I get it. The 'camcreate' command should have only made one vehicle visible on each client, since I just said the created object would only be visible where the command was issued.  :-\

I guess I don't have enough MP experience to give straight answers here... However, I know that the camcreate/createvehicle commands are very basic to MP, so the answer to your questions has to be widely known to experienced MP editors. :)
HANDSIGNALS COMMAND SYSTEM-- A realistic squad-control modification for OFP
kexp.org-- The best radio station in the world, right here at home! Listen to John Richards!

Offline Fragorl

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #38 on: 08 Jul 2005, 07:40:48 »
yes - that was my point ;)

it sounds to me that one possibility is that somewhere along the line, perhps one of the more recent patches like 191, 195 or 196 made some changes to the commands that they didnt tell us about

hermano

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #39 on: 11 Jul 2005, 14:42:24 »
Ha! You're sharp. Crashdome even posted a comment about that (in the forums where he posted this). His SOW mod uses savestatus extensively to allow saving across MP missions, so obviously it works in MP. Didn't know about the specific limitations you mentioned though ;)

Thanks ;)
There is another limitation I forgot to mention. Savestatus of an undamaged object will only work if there is no damaged status saved with the same name, calling deletestatus before saving will solve this.
Besides: I'm around the sow forums sometimes and actually plan to join CrashDome in creating a sow campaign, the sow scripts are really fine, the only other scripts of such quality I've seen so far are coc's.
h

Offline Mr.Peanut

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #40 on: 11 Jul 2005, 17:55:24 »
Must a publicVariable be defined on all machines before it can be broadcast?  That is, if the global boolean variable bVar is defined only on one client and that client broadcasts via publicVariable "bVar", will bVar be then defined on all machines? Must there be a delay between creating(or assigning a new value to) a variable and broadcasting it?
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Offline Garcia

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #41 on: 11 Jul 2005, 19:32:07 »
There should be a small delay at least

Offline General Barron

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #42 on: 11 Jul 2005, 20:53:05 »
Must a publicVariable be defined on all machines before it can be broadcast? Must there be a delay between creating(or assigning a new value to) a variable and broadcasting it?

No and no.
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Offline Mr.Peanut

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #43 on: 30 Sep 2005, 19:27:55 »
Could this thread be pinned? It is sinking...
« Last Edit: 30 Sep 2005, 19:37:53 by Mr.Peanut »
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Offline macguba

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Re:How do scripting commands behave in MP?
« Reply #44 on: 30 Sep 2005, 23:59:06 »
I don't know anything about MP and I haven't studied the thread, but there is clearly some good stuff here.    

The forum is not the right place for storing information: the Editors Depot is the place for that.   However the forum can be a good place for collecting information, and sharing and discussing experiences of how commands work.    This sort of behaviour is to be encouraged. :thumbsup:

Consequently I've made this thread a sticky temporarily.   However in the fullness of time (say, in the next month or two) I expect somebody to turn the information here into a tutorial.  Giving credit where it is due of course.    However, in the long term if its not useful enough to be a tute, it's not useful enough to be a sticky.
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