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Author Topic: (Review Completed) [SP] Dak To ('Nam mission)  (Read 11490 times)

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Offline Hawkins

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #30 on: 05 May 2005, 18:26:00 »
Ok fellas, latest version uploaded! Still waiting for some sounds and in the mean time, I've added some placeholders for them. New version includes:

- More of that nasty napalm. Does it hit the northeast side when you play?

- Enemy units now move to center of town for a last stand once they've lost enough buddies

- Friendly units now have their own parts of town they need to clear. They will stay and defend that part when the enemy comes.


Can't think of anything else I added... :) Grab it from the first post!

Offline burroughs

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #31 on: 05 May 2005, 20:06:34 »
I gave the older version a go yesterday and it was a good fun and a bit challenging gameplay, but surely I'm going for this one, too.
Bill Lee, s/p 4, 101st Airmobile
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Offline Mikero

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #32 on: 07 May 2005, 06:33:09 »
Ok, I started to do a full write up and have decided to scrap it. As too should this version, it is dreadfull

choppers crash into each other sometimes.

Objective Complete

the hell it is. I have a centre town Mnest to deal with, I ran and checked that 3 THREE low bunkers south of mash still had nasties in them, and so on.

The 1st phase aircraft attack is misleading, What is it doing? Is the very bad drone in the signal deliberate? If so, fine.

The second phase, the napalm is not visually there. I ran back northeast because the voicovers gave me a clue to where it might be, but gamewise, I would naturally be south of Mash tents since this is where I would finish cleaning out last of loons.

There are way over the top too many nasties for any napalm to have any effect as a single burst and, at that time, there are so many call outs of enemy at 100 and 50 meters this visual would be the last thing on my mind.

Call for more if you need it?

well, yes please but frankly, why not just keep delivering the stuff thanks?


NO NO NO. Your mission is fine, but this release is a disaster

PS have checked all the better bits, intros and all, it's the mission i am screaming about.
Just say no to bugz

Offline Hawkins

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #33 on: 08 May 2005, 10:02:52 »
Thank you for the continued interest Mikero. :)

I played around with the mission for around 2 hours yesterday, looking for anything suspicious. The napalm did hit off the target, and it seems that there's some errors with the plane dropping it's load. It's not my fault, though, must be an error with the addon.
There's two ways around this, I either remove the napalm sequence all together, or I use that single napalm addon. I also have a script for the napalm so I can simulate a flyby and add a radio action for it. Hmm... Maybe I should make the player be the RTO so he can call in bombers? What do you think?
Choppers didn't hit each other when I played, though a few times one got shot down. Was thinking of adding some sidechat to that, the pilot screaming bloody murder when he's shot down. "RPG! Holy shit! We're going down!" ;)
Quote
NO NO NO. Your mission is fine, but this release is a disaster
That was bound to happen sometime with this complex mission and OFP's built in randomness. ;D I'm grateful that you played it even though there were some faults, thank you. :)

Offline Mikero

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #34 on: 08 May 2005, 20:36:06 »
@Hawkins

please drill down to the fundamental issue here that objective complete occurs before all nasties are removed from the town. There were at least 4 that I checked and I suspect many more in other bunkers.

The player cannot move about, look at, or admire what-happens-next, until that town is truly cleared.

I can't give you constructive, or destructive, comment on anything else (napalm eg) until I have a free zone. I'm too busy staying alive.

If this proves impossible, then alter the construct so that napalm eg, and the ferocious counter attack eg, become seamless, that there is no objective complete (from player's perspective) at this stage, simply a continous whole of a lot of things going bang.

Just say no to bugz

Offline Hawkins

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #35 on: 08 May 2005, 20:53:56 »
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I'm too busy staying alive.
That's exactly the thing I've been aiming for. ;D The player has to fight for his life to accomplish the mission. :)

Quote
please drill down to the fundamental issue here that objective complete occurs before all nasties are removed from the town. There were at least 4 that I checked and I suspect many more in other bunkers.
I took care of that in the current dev version I have. The NVA soldiers that refuse to leave their bunkers will get a nasty surprise. ;) Also the issue with NVA still alive when the objective ticks, has also been fixed. Now the town has to be clear in order for it to be ticked.

I'll try to work out the napalm thing. If the player already is struggling to stay alive, I think making him the RTO and being responsible for his buddies lifes might be too much. Or would it?  8) I'll see what I can do. ;)

I can put in a radio command (just for beta testing) that sets the player to captive so testers can check the stuff out and see how they go?
« Last Edit: 08 May 2005, 20:54:47 by Hawkins »

Offline Mikero

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #36 on: 09 May 2005, 01:14:35 »
>>I'm too busy staying alive.
>That's exactly the thing I've been aiming for.  

Then it's not been achieved. And the reason for that is there is too much else going on that is not consistent with what the player 'thinks' she has to achieve.

This is the mistake all high value mission makers such as yourself encounter. You give the player a sense of failing when she succeeds!!!

objective complete.

well, umm no, >>I<< didn't

go look at the fireworks

umm, I can't

1 down 2 down 3 down mission complete

but i didn't save my squad? I didn't know where to go.

loons everywhere, mission complete, splat splat zing

but, umm. >>>>I<<<< haven't finished yet.

In otherwords, she survived, she succeeded, she stayed alive. And failed.

I can see the half-construct, I love missions where it's smoke and bangs and nastiness around every corner. I love chaos and deep deep doodoo.

The mistake you are making is trying to tone it down!!! Ie setting game pauses by clearing the village alerting player to a fresh counter attack, changing mood sequence by looking out for napalm as if these were 'objectives' to achieve. They aren't.

Suggestion: scrap all feedback, all of it, scrap ALL msg text, the lot. No radio traffic of any kind, no titletext, nada.

play the mission through, let the triggers happen that happen.

THEN put back some message traffic in QUIET moments.

when the player sees an F4 coming in, let her wonder, let her be amazed, you keep quiet.

>RTO

if you make a player leader with a half dead squad, you have to watch out for player sense of failure. Unless she can keep the remnants alive, there will be a feeling of despondency, a let down, for the player at the end.

I've got no issue with you Hawkins introducing experimental stuff in beta missions, seeing if the napalm looks good, is inherently 'good'. The issue is poor choreography, too much instruction, too much mission text, let the game play itself.
Just say no to bugz

Offline sim

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #37 on: 09 May 2005, 17:15:47 »
Good mission Hawkins.
Finally got round to playing it, James Myers freaky! I had him pencilled in for the unsung demo campaign guy  :o

lol

Anyways...

Mission was extrememly well put together, voice acting was kool, even though it did seem a bit cheesey  :P
Loved running up the hill and watching the trasers go over my head, that was brill. Glad to be more involved in the first firefight now  :)
I moved forward taking people out untill a lucky bastard got a shot off on my head and I mysteriously died  ::)

Didn't have time to play after that so I'll have another whirl later, like the onplayerkilled aswell, that was nice  ;)

sim
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Offline Hawkins

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #38 on: 09 May 2005, 20:14:34 »
Sim, thanks for playing! :)

Glad you liked the mission! You guys also have one James Myers in your campaign? :o

Yes the voice acting might have went a bit over the line, at least one some points, but I though I'd let it run, just this once. ;D
I'm glad you liked the onplayerdeath. :) I kinda got fed up with the old one, and the one I use felt better and more fitting to the mission. ;)
Oh, and the best of luck to you and the rest of the Unsung team! I'm eagerly waiting to play with your 'Nam units, and especially the campaign you're making. :)

Offline sim

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #39 on: 10 May 2005, 16:46:29 »
Quote
Glad you liked the mission! You guys also have one James Myers in your campaign? :o

Yes I was rather freaked out about this!  :-\
Ah well two great minds think alike  :P
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Offline mathias_eichinger

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #40 on: 09 Jun 2005, 14:29:59 »
Hi, here is my take on the mission!

Intro

One word: Wow! Cool 60ies music, voice overs, perfect camera, and the text is even on the bottom of the screen and does not distract the player.


Overview

Nice shot of the bunkers we will be facing.


Briefing

I liked the military style as well, pretty clean and good information.


Mission

Bailed out of the helicopter (no crashes during my playing run), stepped on a mine in the village.
Retry. Looks like I must be blind, because I did not see the F-4 on the second run, neither the napalm strike itself.

I encountered only one wave during counter attack, this means to me the mission was not THAT hard, just the right difficulty. And there has never been any tank.
I'm a bit confused about the bunkers. After I cleared the village center and defeated the counterattack I found a single bunker on the south road, cleared it and then -endmission.
Should there be several more?


Outro

Cool music, good scenery and nice idea with the medics. Good Idea with the pin-ups after the outro. I was thinking of replaying the mission when: "missing addon: CIGGY_cloudlets" ---> screen went black.  What a pity that this bug is still present. Otherwise it is an excellent mission.

Greetings

Mathias

Offline Hawkins

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #41 on: 10 Jun 2005, 13:19:23 »
Thanks for playing Mathias! The version on this site is obsolete, I've posted the final version on my site here. I forgot to mention that here. :-X
The bug with the cloudlets, that's very weird. I've never ever got that error. If it shows up when you go back to the main menu, then the script is still playing after the mission and the island intro that's on jungle everon is trying to find it, but without luck. I've had a few other guys test the mission and neither reported that bug. :-\
About the bunkers, yes there are more. There's at least 5, maybe 6, can't remember for sure.
The napalm in the other version should be more visible, I at least hope so. There was some errors with the addon itself so I remove it all together, though  it's kinda cool IMO when it does work, dunno.
The enemy counter attack waves all come a bit off from the next wave, so the player has a chance to survive. There's a total of 3 waves I think. You shouldn't have to wait for the other waves that long though, but there's just enough time to get some more ammo if needed.
The tank, it has been removed. ;)
Again, thanks for playing Mathias! :)

Offline mathias_eichinger

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #42 on: 11 Jun 2005, 19:27:06 »
Hi!

Thanks for you update on your mission, I will play it next week, because I liked it. Do you still appreciate feedback on the updated version or is it already finished?

Greetings

Mathias

Offline Hawkins

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #43 on: 12 Jun 2005, 04:13:39 »
I always appreciate feedback. :) The word "final" doesn't mean a thing, it's just a word. Good feedback on missions is always welcome, even if it has the word "final". So yes, I would love to hear your feedback on it. :)

Offline mathias_eichinger

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Re:'Nam: Dak To (SP)
« Reply #44 on: 14 Jun 2005, 17:39:22 »
Hi Hawkins!

Played the final version again and I liked it as well.
But sadly thi CIGGY_cloudlet bug remains. Also, I decided to stay in the relative security of the village so I did not attempt to find the other 4-5 bunkers.

I like your style very much and I am looking forward to more missions from you.


Greetings

Mathias