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Author Topic: (Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies  (Read 216162 times)

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Offline SEAL84

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #45 on: 02 Feb 2005, 23:48:49 »
Nah, not annoyed at all...it's a great feeling playing Larry the Looter in the enemy's backyard.  Besides, how else will I gather weaponry?

However, I did think there was something amiss with those soldiers.  There is one 5-ton truck with a crew and soldiers in cargo just sitting there near a building, and another crewed but empty truck next to it.  There's a squad of infantrymen on the southern road that leads into the town just standing there in aware wedge formation, in front of another empty truck I assume they rode in on.  There is also a Vulcan next to them that seems to just be driving back and forth from the 5-tons to the infantry squad over and over again.  He keeps cranking his turret around - I could have sworn he was looking right at me once - but niether he nor any of the others have made any moves indicating they've seen me.

I have not engaged any enemies outside of the infantry squads in Vigny.

I do have a theory though: I think the trucks may be disabled, because as I was hiding and waiting, I kept hearing a truck engine going way up in RPMs like he was driving off....it seemed that every minute or two a truck would drive away (at least it sounded that way).  The Vulcan was idling for a while but would drive a bit, stop and idle, drive a bit more, stop and idle, etc etc etc.  The trucks must have crashed into the buildings and can't move, and the dismounted infantry and Vulcan must be following them and therefore not moving either.  Does this sound about right?

In any event, I plan on planting a crapload of satchel charges, then HK'ing the infantrymen, luring the Vulcan to where the satchels are, then blowing it sky-high and making off with the BMP ambulance (in which I have been putting the weapons I'm taking from the crates).

As an aside, I have also apparantly gained the ability to place mines by virtue of my proximity to the ammunition crates.

I finally broke down though and looked at the hints...just vague enough to not really help but give you some idea of what to do at the same time, IMO.

Check PMs for something else I noticed...


*****EDIT****

I suddenly had the epiffany to do things the easy way - I just jumped in the BMP ambulance and hauled ass before anybody could bring a weapon to bear ;D  I didn't fire a shot and made off with 7 HKs and a crapload of satchel charges.
« Last Edit: 03 Feb 2005, 00:25:46 by SEAL84 »

Offline macguba

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #46 on: 03 Feb 2005, 00:51:25 »
Finished my post above.      I'm just reading through the thread and will comment on any comments that catch my eye ....  ::)

Voice acting - everthing I have heard will do and some of it is really not bad at all.    Sure, if you had professional actors it might be better, but so what.

Definitely no NVGs at the start.   I'm not even sure I'm glad I got them off that officer.  

The nuclear apocolypse was only an idea.   My point is that that current background/setup isn't robust enough, which you know anyway.

You can't miss the policeman in Vigny if you're looking - he has a jeep wreck beside him.  It is perfectly possible to miss him if you're not looking, but it's obvious you should be - you have no kit.

My old computer had a benchmark of 750 odd, only had this one a year and a bit.   Mind you, it has been totally fucked for the last week:  today the repair man came and gave me a new motherboard, new fan/transformer unit and a new temporary CPU till he can get a proper replacement.

Thanks for the "hanging" credit ..... I'd always wanted a hanging in a mission.   Must point out that you improved the swinging motion from my original effort.

Markers on the map showing who controls what:   you could try a line of dots.    It would be helpful and legitamate to have something and it would make the map look better.   It's too bare at the moment.

In general I disagree with interfering with the game, in this case taking away the time acceleration.    However, there are always exceptions and I think this may be one.   You need to make up for it in other ways though, and I feel that at present the mission does not do this sufficiently.

The ammo and weapons at the lodge are fine.   Maybe one more mag for the hunting rifle.   Possibly the odd grenade or flare.

Quote
I'm not too knowledgable on the technical side of this, so I'll just say what I thought while playing it.
That's all you need for beta testing.

I had various vehicles report "low fuel" but nobody ran out.    The instructions for dealing with the civvies are probably ok, I can't quite remember.    The important thing is that you don't have to go back with them:  if you're smart enough to work that out, or risk-taking enough to try it, then you're laughing.  If not, well you haven't really lost anything.

Benchmark:   I found it hard to get a level on where conditional eyecandy (for example) should be but somewhere around 2000 is probably about right for most purposes.     Unimpossible is just playable with 1500 apparently.    My benchmark at first glance is unchanged (5660) in spite of a new motherboard and new CPU:   on clicking autodetect it changed to 5639, then 5050, then 5338, 5639, 6000 then all of these numbers again in random order.

I had no trouble at all finding the lodge.     Just set off on a bearing from the house at the little road.

A photo of your uncle in the Briefing would be good.   Help to fool you.   ;D   There is no need for anything more in Vigny:  if you have a sneak round there is nothing there except a police body for kit, a few bodies, a jeep and the house with the people.     You already know that all East and West soldiers are enemies, and the civvy is bound to be a friend.   The "go to the village to find somebody but they're not there although somebody else is who directs you" thing is not original, I've seen it in a few missions so most folk will know what to do.  Checking bodies would be very cool though.  

KEEP THE ACCTIME RESTRICTION!!     But you must make it up to us in other ways.

Beta testing should not be democratic.   It's your mission, you do what you want.     In an immersive experience like this it is particularly important not to consider things in isolation:  for example, the accTime thing; kozlice/pistol at the start; radio for truck rides; and 2 or 3 civvy groups to rescue are all part of the same overarching question.    My view is that you should keep the time restriction but make everything else as slick as possible to make up for it.  That's why I suggested kozlice with no ammo - best of both worlds.    Or lose the pistol.    Killing the guys in Vigny with the pistol is no problem at all.    You're right that it doesn't matter that its too easy.

It was 08:00 in the game when I entered La Trinite in my post above.

Setpos characters for cutscenes.   Nobody minds moving a couple of feet - its much less objectionable than camera angles that don't work because units are in the wrong place.

The 6 man (or so) squad coming at you in Vigny is just right:  you have time to run away if you want, and they are beatable if you want to fight and play it right.    
« Last Edit: 03 Feb 2005, 00:54:26 by macguba »
Plenty of reviewed ArmA missions for you to play

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #47 on: 03 Feb 2005, 10:57:52 »
I am totally overwhelmed by all the comments.  I have had more in 48 hours than I had in a couple of months of beta testing on my previous mission.  I am reading them all and I am taking notice.

The extent of the changes necessary - together with trying to stay employed :) will mean the next version could be a while coming, but it will come and it will be so much better for all your comments.

I do have a concern that despite all my soak testing something may be amiss with SEAL84's mission.
Quote
However, I did think there was something amiss with those soldiers.  There is one 5-ton truck with a crew and soldiers in cargo just sitting there near a building, and another crewed but empty truck next to it.  There's a squad of infantrymen on the southern road that leads into the town just standing there in aware wedge formation, in front of another empty truck I assume they rode in on.  There is also a Vulcan next to them that seems to just be driving back and forth from the 5-tons to the infantry squad over and over again.
For the south convoy there should be a Bradley(cargo - one group of infantry), a 5t truck (no cargo) an ammo truck, a ural (cargo - one group of infantry) and a vulcan.  On arriving at La Trinite the infantry should get out,  one group should go to aware at the other side of the town (they are meant to look like guards) and the other group should zig-zag (search) the town.  The searching group then boards the Bradly the guard group then board the ural and the whole thing goes back to base.  The north convoy is the same with a BMP instead of a Bradley.

I have soak tested this for days on end with no problem - now it seems to have broken within a couple of hours.

@SEAL84

Quote
In any event, I plan on planting a crapload of satchel charges, then HK'ing the infantrymen, luring the Vulcan to where the satchels are, then blowing it sky-high
That would certainly put the mission back on track if you could also ensure that any misplaced trucks are killed also.  The other side's convoy will not leave its base until this convoy has either left La Trinite or had all its vehicles killed/disabled.

Do you have a save game of the situation that I could see?
« Last Edit: 03 Feb 2005, 10:58:40 by THobson »

Offline macguba

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #48 on: 03 Feb 2005, 12:14:15 »
Tip:    after making a few changes read the whole thread again, carefully.   It's not just that you might have missed something.   It's more that as the comments keep coming in, and you keep making changes, a throwaway line that had no real significance when it was written (or first read) can actually turn out to be quite handy later.
Plenty of reviewed ArmA missions for you to play

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #49 on: 03 Feb 2005, 13:02:45 »
I have just done exacly that and I have copy and pasted a lot of stuff into my to do list.  You are right. I have a different impression of some of these posts that I had when I first read them, also they came so fast that I found that I had missed one completely.

On the problem with SEAL84's mission.  I have just remembered that some of the code I use to keep these damned stupid vehicles running does not cut in if the player is within 200m.  Now that SEAL84 has made his escape they may well all get sorted out on their own.

Offline macguba

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #50 on: 03 Feb 2005, 15:06:00 »
Fucking bastard kittens.   ;D   They climb onto the desk just as the phone rings so I do a Ctrl-C to copy what I've already written.    The post is trashed.    But it seems they managed to do another Ctrl-C of 7 blank lines ......... :swipe:  :wallop:

Anyway.    

  • Try and make it so that the medic is 6, not 7, in your squad.
  • I like the way the mist comes and goes.
  • The more I play this the more I dislike the infinite savegames.    (Essential for beta testing of course.)    I'm using them as a surrogagte for 4x:   hiding the bushes I save, go and put the kettle on, come back and if nothing has happened (I'm waiting for a convoy to leave La Trinite) save again.  It's funny how whether you have a shotgun at the start, whether you have 4x and whether you have infinite savegames are all really the same question.
  • You could perhaps use area markers or coloured question marks to suggest which towns are in the control of which faction.    Don't be afraid to use just writing on the map.  "This area controlled by x".
  • I am getting a tiny little bit of lag now.   Not problematic.  Lower graphic settings fixed it.   Suggest you put setViewdistance/setTerrainDetail commands in init.sqs.   Not too low, as you want the chopper radar to work.    Players can adjust themselves if they want to.
  • I'm not convinced by the mines as they take up no slots.   You have the AT mines from the game anyway.    Here's an idea.


Action menu based mine system.  You find instructions for improvising mines int he field at the ammo dump.

- Place mines

Click it and you get

- Place hand grenade mine
- Place grenade mine
- Place satchel mine
- Place smoke mine

but ONLY if you have the requisite item in your inventory.   When placed it is removed from your inventory of course, and the actual explosion does not have to be the exact same thing as long as its consistent.

Next, you get the fusing menu

- Infantry fuse
- Light vehicle fuse
- Armour fuse
- Any vehicle fuse
- Infantry/Light vehicle
- Anything

Or whatever you want.    You'll have to play with it a bit to get what you want but the point is you have infinite mines, fused to got off however you want, as long as you have the kit to make them.  

You could even add a time delay menu if you wanted.    Or place the fuse and mine in different places.   This would open up a world of possibilities:   you could have different coloured smoke grenades go off near your location to indicate that the enemy were present in a remote place.    Obviously you could fix it so that you could order your loons to place mines.    And you could have a defuse mine action if you got close enough to a placed mine and had the slots free to carry the item ... or maybe just leave it on the ground.    Anyway, something upon which to cogitate.   You could just keep it simple and make it hand grenades and AP mine.

The problem is the number of triggers.    This can be handled by making you find a box of fuses or something, rather than the complete mine.

  • The story so far:   I've rescued 2 groups of civvies, got 1 killed, and am lying on the outskirts of La Trinite.    Moved into town and discovered the mines and ammo dump, got the hints.    Took a few goes at this because I kept getting interrupted, but in the end managed to equip everybody with a long of some sort and move the ammo and repair trucks and BMP ambulance to the east of the town, to make them easier to steal on the next approach.     Convoy from the north came in and we hid on the east side of town while they minced around.    


Collected the wagons and headed back to the third civvy point, which I suspect will be safe.    There we rearm.    Bizons and NVGs for everybody, M21 and BGlockS for me.    2 rockets and a satchel for those as can carry them.   It's 8.30 am and it looks like its going to be a nice day.   Let's go and start a war.

Got into position overlooking La Trinite.   The southern convoy was up, so I popped the vulcan and then the brad from 330m.    The bangs took out some infantry and trucks, and the remaining loons who came towards us were dropped by my brave lads and lassies.

An idyllic scene.    (twinSmoke.jpg)   You will note that my civvies are fireteam green and the soldiers red.   I don't know why, it just seemed like a good way of keeping track of things.

Normally at this point I would have legged it to avoid retaliation, but as I testing I hung around to watch.     Didn't see much but after a minute or two got "hmm they're fighting each other".  

Used the retry to investigate this a couple of times - I didn't fully understand what was happening.   Certainly a lorry came up from the south and won a small firefight with somebody in the town, but I don't know who or how they got there.    The place should have been empty of Northrons and although I can't swear nobody arrived just at the moment I didn't see any evidence of it.    Unless they came in immediately by the west road, which I have no chance of seeing.

I'm not thrilled by this massive improvement in the weather.    I would suggest you let it get light, leave it for an hour or two and then have weather improve.     More atmospheric that way and gives a greater variety of conditions.      Fog burns off in the morning only if there no thick rainclouds above it.

Left the firefight in 3 (short for La Trinite, geddit?) and I boxed round to the north with a view to mining the road.    We must keep it fair in terms of armoured vehicles destroyed, mustn't we?  Placed one AV mine, ran back to the squad and then headed south.   We sorta ran into a couple of infantry squads, one moving away from us which we mostly dropped and then 5 standing still which we took out, but then I changed the plan slightly and we headed east back our Base at the old civvy house.  On the way I heard one vehicle blow up - smoke at the northern edge of 3 - and later a chopper's gun firing followed by another explosion.   The war appears to be going well.    We rearmed and I put on a brew and got the map out.

My little base is in a dreadfully inconvenient place but moving it is going to be a nightmare in daylight.    

Oh, here's another idea.   The player finds a transistor radio and picks it up.   Whenever he likes he can listen to it.   There are several channels.   Music of course, for long journeys.   Maybe you could have two stations, one for CWC tracks and one for Resistance, and give the stations funky names.    Then there is the weather channel, which gives weather forecasts for the next hour or two.    They need not be 100% accurate but they should be generally right, allowing you to plan your day:  I can't move my vehicles now, but in a couple of hours it might be possible if the rain comes back.    Or maybe its going to be sunny all day and I can't move them unless I just take the risk.   If I have infinite savegames of course then I might just keep trying till I get lucky.

Anyway, given where I am, it seems the best thing to do is recce the northern airfield.   I could spend the morning clearing towns, but ...

By the way, if there is anythng you want me to check just say so.   I'll plug in a savegame and go look.     My strategy at the moment is to recce the airfield and do some damage/destroy it if possible.   Then perhaps a town or two, working my way south to do the same at that end.    When I think I've got enough brownie points to get away with it I'll go back to the lodge and shoot the civvies.

So I heads north and from as far away as possible hit the dirt and turn up the viewdistance as far as I dare. (3500m)    I see a 3 man patrol going up the east side of the airfield fence in combat mode, which looks a little excessive.    A lone RPGer behaves similarly on the southern fence.   There's nobody on the road to St Louis that I can see and the airfield gate is unguarded.  Bradly and tank by the main buildings, another brad by the fuel station, a few loons running around, the odd M2.... this shouldn't take long.

For fun I decide to take out the M2 gunner by the southern building.   7 rounds at 834m is nothing to be proud of, but in my defence there was a convoy going past which meant I couldn't see the fall of shot.   Feeling cocky I switch to RPG and have a pop at the Vulcan that just arrived, but 1100m is too far and the missile airbursts short, I think.

There is a constant problem with my 2.  He keeps running forward, out of position, even when he is supposed to be lying down.    It's not so much getting himself killed - if he is going to do that the sooner the better frankly - but he has just given away our position.    

That's it for now.
« Last Edit: 03 Feb 2005, 18:27:18 by macguba »
Plenty of reviewed ArmA missions for you to play

Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #51 on: 03 Feb 2005, 15:52:25 »
Maybe have unlimited saves ONLY when ur at the lodge. Switch it to the action menu as a "group rest" action.. maybe heal the squad too while they rest.

Offline SEAL84

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #52 on: 03 Feb 2005, 16:18:35 »
On the problem with SEAL84's mission.  I have just remembered that some of the code I use to keep these d**ned stupid vehicles running does not cut in if the player is within 200m.  Now that SEAL84 has made his escape they may well all get sorted out on their own.

Okay, I'll go back and have a look then....and there was also a Bradley there as well.

Offline rado1265

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #53 on: 03 Feb 2005, 16:39:18 »
This is the first time that I've downloaded the mission which is on beta testing, and did I pick right! This mission is great! But obviously there's too much for one mission; I have no intention to mess every time with the mission saves file to get the mission going again. So here is my first, and quite radical suggestion: make the campaign or mission pack with this material! But if you decide to stick with the mission here're some of my observations for the part which I've played (I've rescued all three civilian groups and take La Trinite):

OVERVIEW:

- Shine with more light here.

BRIEFING:

- You could change (enlarge) the font type. I can't see any space shortage, so there's no need for the smaller font type.

- On page where are provided the informations about the enemy groups add links to the places - towns.

INTRO:

- It's all there, just music is too loud for me. A quieter, "backround" music should be more suitable.

MISSION:

- Reduce fog level a bit. Otherwise the weather just adds to the good ingame atmosphere.

- All voice acting that I have opurtunity to hear is great and works perfectly.

- If this were my mission I'll remove the choppers (execept if they're esential for some later stage); with them those enemy groups looks too strong for some marauding bands. And if there's a fuel shortage the choppers will not fly around and waste that fuel. I mention this only because I think you're devoted to the realism.

- Will the autosave option (0-0-0) permanently stay in the mission, or is there only to ease the work for the beta testers, and will be removed later? I suggest you to do so, and place the autosaves on strategical places - in Vigny right after the cutscene, every time you reach the civilian hideouts, etc. You'll still have plenty of savegames, the opurtunity to save every time you want just "kill" the gameplay. For me anyway.

Overall I like the whole thing: the story (it's beleivable, the Americans are no angels aether), the sense for the details... I just hope I help you on some way or other.


Regards, karantan.
« Last Edit: 03 Feb 2005, 16:54:36 by karantan »

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #54 on: 03 Feb 2005, 19:48:57 »
@macguba
Neat picture.  I have seen that scene myself once or twice!
Quote
You will note that my civvies are fireteam green and the soldiers red.  I don't know why, it just seemed like a good way of keeping track of things.
I find I am a bit protective of 5, almost as much as I am with the medic - is something you have noticed or is it just me?

There are loons in combat mode at the base!!.  That shouldn't happen until someone in the base is killed.  I add it to the list of things to look into.

There are two Bradlies in the Northern base?!  I take it they are all friendly to each other?

@SEAL84
If the Bradley is there as well then I am afraid the convoy is screwed.  I suggest you kill what vehicles you can.  Sorry.

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #55 on: 03 Feb 2005, 19:58:12 »
@karantan
Thank you.  I am glad you like it

Quote
I have no intention to mess every time with the mission saves file to get the mission going again
This is not necessary if you don't have ECP.  I don't even know if it is necessary with ECP I just suspect it might be.

Quote
Will the autosave option (0-0-0) permanently stay in the mission, or is there only to ease the work for the beta testers, and will be removed later? I suggest you to do so, and place the autosaves on strategical places
The problem with building in the autosaves is that after a certain point I really have no idea what the player will be doing.  I am warming to the suggestion by macguba that I just have a limited number of saves that the player can choose to use when they wish.

I have not responded to all your points, but that does not mean I have ignored them.  I have turned down the volume on the intro for example.

My list of to do's has grown exponentially in the last couple of days so I am finding it a bit hard to keep up with the comments so far (that and stopping myself from getting fired!)

I appreciate your comments and I hope you do get chance to have another go at it.
If you are running ECP I would welcome knowing if you do experience the large savegame bug.

Thanks again.

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #56 on: 03 Feb 2005, 20:29:46 »
@SEAL84

Can I just check I have got the symptoms right:
There is a Bradley, a 5t truck (with a crew and infantry in cargo?), a couple of urals (one is an ammo truck) and a vulcan.  The urals do not have any loons in cargo.  There is a squad if infantry on the south of the town (facing south?)

It would help me if you can remember where the vehicles are in relation to the church (first building on the left as you reach the town from the south), and if there are any vehicles actually in the town or north of the town.

The mission is designed so that even something like this will not prevent it from being completed.  It just means that the north convoy will not move south until this convoy is dead/completely disabled or frees itself.
Honestly I have set this running before going away for several days and it was all well when I got back.  With the information above I will see what else I can do to prevent this happening again.

Offline SEAL84

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #57 on: 03 Feb 2005, 20:36:14 »
@SEAL84

Can I just check I have got the symptoms right:
There is a Bradley, a 5t truck (with a crew and infantry in cargo?), a couple of urals (one is an ammo truck) and a vulcan.  The urals do not have any loons in cargo.  There is a squad if infantry on the south of the town (facing south?)

It would help me if you can remember where the vehicles are in relation to the church (first building on the left as you reach the town from the south), and if there are any vehicles actually in the town or north of the town.

The mission is designed so that even something like this will not prevent it from being completed.  It just means that the north convoy will not move south until this convoy is dead/completely disabled or frees itself.
Honestly I have set this running before going away for several days and it was all well when I got back.  With the information above I will see what else I can do to prevent this happening again.


- 1 Bradley with a 6-man infantry squad nearby
- 1 American 5-ton - looked like an uncovered cargo version, but I'm not 100% - right behind it on the road.
- 1 Vulcan
- 1 Ural, plain version, with a crew and no cargo in the back
- 1 US 5-ton with a crew and an infantry squad in the rear - I snuck up next to it and peeked in the back and there were definitely armed soldiers inside.

I should have taken a screenshot or saved and copied the save file, but unfortunately I didn't...I've moved on in the game.

From there I found some infantry in Larche but nothing worth stealing.  I also went to Arudy and found the place empty.  A fire burned, some tents were there, and there was an uncovered American 5-ton sitting under a camo net - I took it for the ammo it carries.

I just got out of class so I'll fire up the mission and take a quick jog back to La Trinite to see if anything has changed.  If they're still there I'll get a save point and a screenshot.


****EDIT****

Check PMs.
« Last Edit: 03 Feb 2005, 21:07:16 by SEAL84 »

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #58 on: 03 Feb 2005, 22:11:34 »
@ macguba

Quote
Didn't see much but after a minute or two got "hmm they're fighting each other".  

Used the retry to investigate this a couple of times - I didn't fully understand what was happening.
Each of the loons have a killed EH that detects which side killed them, if a north is killed by a south or vice verca then after some random delay you get the '...they're fighting each other message'

 
Quote
The place should have been empty of Northrons and although I can't swear nobody arrived just at the moment I didn't see any evidence of it.    Unless they came in immediately by the west road, which I have no chance of seeing.
I am surprised they arrived so quickly, it is a fair way from the airbase.

Quote
I'm not thrilled by this massive improvement in the weather.  
Is this a comment about the design of the mission or about the implications of this on your state of health?
« Last Edit: 03 Feb 2005, 22:11:55 by THobson »

djackl

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #59 on: 03 Feb 2005, 23:01:43 »
Quote
Oh, here's another idea.  The player finds a transistor radio and picks it up.  Whenever he likes he can listen to it.  There are several channels.  Music of course, for long journeys.  Maybe you could have two stations, one for CWC tracks and one for Resistance, and give the stations funky names.    Then there is the weather channel, which gives weather forecasts for the next hour or two.    They need not be 100% accurate but they should be generally right, allowing you to plan your day:

I concur wholeheartedly.

*UPDATE*
Dropped the second load of civvies back at HomeBase (my codename for the lodge not the DIY store ;D) and have gone to La Trinite. Found a shedload of Ammo, trucks and heavy weapons, and no soldiers. Have I missed something? Am currently in the process of rearming my troops with the heavier equipment. Will update later.