(Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies

[THobson]

Well thank you.  

This was another of those little exercises I set myself - like creating the mines for the player to place

[macguba]

For added subtlety you could make the frequency of explosions (while still being random) proportional to the number of loons in the trigger.      More guys blundering about the place would set off more mines, whereas the player on his own would set off few.

[THobson]

OK:
In the Saint Marie mine field now has:
-limited number of mines
-mines that explode at a location randomly selected near its victim
- at randomly selected depths
- at a time interval that is random but also depends on the number of loons in the town.

Still not a safe place for the player or his team.

It feels better - even though I doubt any player will notice, but that hasn't stopped me doing other things like this.

[macguba]

This kind of detail is surprisingly important in a mission like this.   What if the player moves slightly into the town and then lies still?    As it stands, he still has a chance of being blown up even though he hasn't moved, which he will feel as slightly unfair.      It's very unlikely I know, but the plain fact is sooner or later it will happen to somebody.   The more you can do - like making the liklihood of an explosion related to the number of loons in the area - the better.

Any decent player would of course understand that the necessity of lag reduction does involve the occasional minor compromise, and I'm not suggesting that anyone who was appraised of the facts would feel hard done by.    Of course 99.9% of the players who come into the area will get blown up and feel that they deserve it.    75% of players will never even discover the minefield. and 90% of those that do will merely avoid it.     It's a phenomenal amount of trouble for a tiny, tiny minority of players.

[Fragorl]

That would seem to necessitate a simple '&& abs(speed player) > 1' command perhaps, to make sure the player's moving? I'm sure that's occurred to you.

[THobson]

Mac you are of course quite right,  and even if no one notices it I will still know it is a compromise.   I have already got a lot of satisfaction out of making this mission, just getting things to behave reasonably realistically within the constraints of OFP is challenge enough.

Fragori.  I will in deed put a check like that in.  Thanks  Actually that also will avoid a concern I had that the player just sit there in a tank and wait for all the mines to be exhausted.  Now at least he will need to be driving around which will also seem realistic.

Edit:
Okay I have put that in and it really does help.  I had a concern that by remaining stationary and moving forward in bursts the player could get through unscathed.  Not so ;D  The best tactic to crossing the mine field is to run and hope, well that or just go round it.

GRK I am beginign to feel a bit guilty - you do realise I did not actually hide anything in the town don't you?

[macguba]

You always have to remember that the player does not know how you've done it, so even if there is a tactic that defeats the script it doesn't matter.    

As you know I have a minefield in Un-Impossible and it is surrounded by danger signs.    They are blatently obvious in daylight because they have to be detectable in mist.    One of the things I would change, if I could, would be to remove the danger signs and replace them with some other warning.  The problem with danger signs is that nobody is ever going to go past them:  it's too obvious a warning.   What I should have done with Un-Impossible is put a warning in the Briefing.   By the time he get there the player probably would have forgotten, thereby making the minefield more effective and more part of the mission.

[THobson]

It was part of my mission when I played it!!  I crawled in to the wood and got killed.  I think you weakened your mines in some way - but perhaps because I was lying down I took more of the blast.

I don't like those signs either - the symbol on them means radioactive.  Having seen them in your mission and in Sui's Facile Ground I thought they were a recognised standard, so I just used them without thinking too much about it.  I can't really put anything in my breifing on this.  The guy starts off as a know nothing rookie.

I have been slaving over a hot microphone all afternoon.

[macguba]

I have a variety of mines, although they are all grenades.    12m underground is just the right depth for a toe-popper:   you get wounded in the legs but not killed.     Some appear in the trees and fall to earth.   Some explode a few yards away.    Some set off two explosions.

Actually, on reflection, I think some of those vanished when I removed some mines to reduce lag.

I used these signs because they were the best, or rather least worst, object.    My original intention was simply to deprive the player of that wood, so I didn't really care much.   Really cross with myself for not putting it in the Briefing now, though I appreciate you can't.

Looking forward to the next version!

[GI-YO]

When do you expect version 1.2 to be released? Can't wait! ;D
Keep up the good work

GI-YO

[THobson]

Lol: I think 1.2 might be a good number for it.  

It currently has the working version number 1.01 but given the changes I have made .01 seems too small an increment to use since the first one

Well lets see.  We have the beta testing party this weekend.  I have a few overseas business trips in the next few weeks  and I need to lean on several family members and their assorted boy and girl friends to put aside their shyness and get in front of the microphone.  Failing that you will yet again have to suffer listening to me trying to play different parts and only succeeding in sounding like I have various stages of a cold.  I have four new cutscenes to get right, more speaking parts and more speaking.  My hope is that I have the next version out by the end of the month.

But at last I feel I am getting a lot of the loose ends tied up.  Especially the mountain lodge.

[macguba]

Do all the speaking yourself for now.     You don't want to keep going back to folk - for a start the boyfriend in question might have changed which could be embarrassing.    Save the poor souls until you know you have the final version.

[THobson]

Good advice.  

[Mr.Pibb]

I wanted to add something here, I had to dig to find this older post you made that, when I read it I knew what to say in return but never did, so heres nothing.

I thought the mission was quite good when I put it on here - I am now a bit embarrassed about crappy a lot of it is.  Scripts working in the wrong order, people dieing for no reason (I am beginning to think that Malden is haunted), loons not turning up at the end etc.

 Honestly I dont think even the beta version is really that bad, actually think its quite good. And although there are bugs and mistakes to fix, thats what beta testing is about.
 Seems actually aot of the stuff suggested and whatnot are not solutions to actual problems. I think that with a more 'normal' smaller style mission some suggestions would come up, and that would be it. In this case I think alot of people (inluding myself) have been very impressed with your mission and therefore cant help but see the potential of the mission in many various ways. I mean, you have the backbone of the mission pretty much done, which is always the hard part. The skies are the limit as to how immersive and real you decide to make it from there, I understand time is a huge factor. This all coming from someone who spent three years working on my WWIII mod for Ghost Recon. I found myself often in similiar scenarios where I had completed the primary goals of making a particular mission and after spending so much time just getting there I felt like I was finally done. Only after testing the missions through and through did I realize there was much more I could add to make the missions more immersive and realistic, and it was annoying because it meant more time too, but nonetheless ended up spending sometimes large amounts of extra time to really be content with the final product.

 So anyhow, I hope you take your time and whenever you get the thing the way you want it I will be there to play it, regardless of how long. Id be happy to test run any versions along the way for ya too  .

 Pibb

[THobson]

That is really wonderful.  Thank you.  

What was behind my comment was that I do pride myself on really testing each part and on thinking  - well what else could happen here?  To find that I had missed some things was a bit of a shock.

The 'take your time' advice is much appreciated.  I really enjoyed the months (well apart from the odd frustration) of getting the mission to the beta testimg stage.  Since then it has felt like a bit of a rush.  I really really have enjoyed all the comments and stories, but the mission building part has of late lost a bit of its alure

As this mission has now been bumped to the top during the beta testing party let me make a general comment to all party goers.

This mission has had a lot of excellent beta testing over the last several months (well it feels like months!).  There are many missions here that haven't so please give them a shot.  Also this mission is far too long to be played in the timeframe of the party so it would not be a good idea to try.  Having said that, if anyone wants to have look at and give me some advice on the intro then please feel free but to spend longer on this mission than that would take away from those other missions that this party is really about.