a question on legality

[bored_onion]

ive looked at 2 threads where a mod has locked them because they are talking about using music from other games

i agree that it probably isnt too legal and could get ofpec in trouble...

however, if this is the case (and also that when missions are reviewed, reviewers like custom music) where might the humble law abiding mission editor be able to obtain music that they could use legally and without qualmn?

what about making music, are there any programs that can be used for that?

what does the community suggest?

[General Barron]

Almost every mission (with custom music) uses copywrited material.... yeah "technically" it isn't legal, but you aren't making any money off it or anything, and it isn't quite the same thing as handing out burned CD's on the street, so I personally have no moral issues with it. However, I think you should always put info in the readme about what music you are using, and who it is written/performed by.

I seriously doubt OFPEC is going to get into any trouble, because the chances that somebody who made the copywritten material are going to visit OFPEC, and happen to download and play a mission using that material..... its like 99999999999999999999999999 to 1. The only reason "Operation *&#Jack" got into a legal tissy, is because someone from Lojack co. found it via a google search. Obviously google can't tell what music is used in a mission, so that just can't happen in this case.

[Zayfod]

Yup.
Not only that, I know of several websites where  well known writer/composers (for game/film music) have made  all their scores available for free download at full quality--no strings attached, only that its for personal listening tho.

They do this to advertise (for more work I guess) and also to share their music with their adoring fans.

Now were anyone to alter their scores or mix them with other music or sell them etc, that would be a no no. But I dont see that they would be too worried about you listening to their music while you played an amateur game mission that was developed in a non commercial way.

Truth of the matter is you just never know. It is their property at the end of the day and they will act as they see fit.

The history of mod making and map making has been totally at the mercy of all past artists. The artists have either silently/openly given permission, were not aware, or simply didnt give a hoot. If they were all to stand up and scream stop now then it would be the end of 95% of all major amateur Mods and mission addition packs, and that would be a terrible day.

I would suggest that if you wish to use any music then give full credits to the artist and where the music came from (what game or music cd etc)

[bored_onion]

well i suppose we should count down the time it takes for a mod to shut this thread now...

[djackl]

After posting a response in another thread on this subject, this is the message I received and I quote :

'Hello djackl.

In this  thread, you mention using Kazaa Lite to download copyrighted material. This is an illegal action.

We at OFPEC would appriciate if you would refrain from making such suggestions on our forum, since we are technically responsible for anything that goes on in here.

As a pointer to your post, it is legal to rip music from a CD and play it on your computer, you own a license to listen to that music, it is up to you to decide how you want to listen to it.
Spreading that music to others, through burning a new CD and giving it to a friend, using file sharing programs or even using a webcasted radio, is a breach of copyright and is illegal.

It is not a question of whether or not you are profiting from it, you are distributing the copyrighted material in a breach of the copyright laws.

Thank you.
KTottE. Global moderator, www.ofpec.com '

I think that settles it in the admins' eyes so I guess there is nothing you can do about it, however, in answer to your problem, the best thing to do is find out who owns the rights to the music and submit a request to them, stating that you aint trying to make a profit or anything.

[ocnick]

As a musician, I always advocate making your own music  ;D.  But I understand that most people don't have much experience at it, or don't want to invest any time into it, when they could easily drop in someone else's track.

As for programs, Fruity Loops is a good beginner program that introduces sequencing and such.  But I'd suggest taking it a step further and learning a little bit about MIDI.  You don't need anything other than a good MIDI program with some decent synthesizers, etc. and you got the ability to make good music.  I just started messing around with Propellerhead's Reason, and it has tons of possibilities.

If you need any help, PM me, I'd be more than happy to help.

[DBR_ONIX]

I seriously don't think any big musician is gonna care as long as
1. You don't make money of the mission (And I disagree with anyone selling OFP mission anyway
2. You mention who it is (In credits/readme) as it gets them more knowen about
3. You buy there album

- Ben

[djackl]

1. They could lose money from the mission because you can un pbo the mission and get the music.
2. The fact that people can do the above will mean that they won't care about the recognition
3. See my previous post, you buy the album for the privelige to play it in private, to play it in public is a breach of copyright and illegal.


I dont agree with this ruling because i would like to see more custom music in missions, but I understand the admins' point of view that ofpec could get in trouble for hosting illegal missions so i suppose you should just distribute the mission in private or something so ofpec isnt involved or ask the publisher of the album who u have to get permission from.

[DBR_ONIX]

And thats pretty much why I hate most big companys..
Everything revolves around money  :-\
I think companys and musicians (Bit ones, I mean) will still make as much money as they normally would if music is used in missions.. And they get more recognision..
But coz you don't pay them to use they're music (Even a bit..?), that means how ever many people who might have heard the song, and liked it, possibly buying a CD, wont..
What about using say 20 seconds of a song? That way if you de-pbo it, you wont get the acctual song?
- Ben

[djackl]

The rules are that you can use a 30 second extract, though for the sake of politeness you are still advised to ask permission

[General Barron]

And thats pretty much why I hate most big companys..
Everything revolves around money

I bet if you owned a business, you would be thinking like that too. And if you wanted to make a living off of music, I would think you would like to be paid for your efforts as well.

The rules are that you can use a 30 second extract, though for the sake of politeness you are still advised to ask permission

Now that is something I've never heard of.  

I don't really want to get into this much more, but I'll just be honest:
  *Most of the missions (here or anywhere) with custom music use copywritten material
  *It makes no sense that someone would depbo a mission to get a portion of a song that was downloaded off of (*#$*(, when they could just download it themselves.

Anyway, I really don't want to see OFPEC start rejecting submissions because they have copywritten material, so I won't go any further. But the fact is, nobody is going to notice, so I don't think it should be an issue; just like nobody is going to notice if you use a copywritten picture, or sound effect, or character, etc.

[djackl]

Yeah in the end you have to remember this is a game, not some sort of corporation or something. We use this to have fun not make money, so I guess its something to be taken up with the admins.

[Sui]

The rules are that you can use a 30 second extract, though for the sake of politeness you are still advised to ask permission

What law is that? US law? European Law?

The fact of the matter is, the internet is international so is bound by so many laws us poor plebs can't really tell the difference. We do have a resident lawyer (pure co-incidence, I assure you ;D), and I'm sure if you asked him he would say it's still illegal no matter which way you look at it. Profit or non-profit, the full clip or only part of the clip, it's still that artist's intellectual property...

The truth is you can't really be sure, as the laws are different depending on what country (or State!) an act is committed in.

I'd assume that at the end of the day, if we're approached by someone asking us to take down content due to breach of copyright we have to take it down. We're simply not in a position to combat any form of litigation...

Anyway... methinks this thread doesn't have too much life left in it...
I'll leave it open for the mean time for the purposes of meaningful discussion (if there is any left).

[djackl]

So I'm supposing the only solution is to compose your own music?

[bored_onion]

say, this thread is working quite well

good responses guys

keep em coming