Realism Script - More Wounds, Less Death!

[dmakatra]

Hi! Each day OFP struggles to get even closer to the horrors of war thanks to our excellent scripters. So I have an idea.

When you look at statistics of battles and wars, accidents and other stuff there is almost allways more injured people than dead. This is one of the most awful things in real world but ironicly it would bring much to OFP. Imagine this:

You stand at the front line. Scouts report that an enemy tank platoon is heading your way. People are getting entrenched all around you. Suddenly, someone yells incoming and hell opens up above you. You half throw yourself, half walk into a house to take cover form the shelling. Once it has stopped You look out. Soldiers are lying all over the place screaming and twisting in pain. The field medics do whatever they can do while the tanks roll in and a second hell opens up.

Just a small thing like being badly enough shot (like in the leg) will make you lose your fighting and movement capability until a medic patches you up.

Summary: Randomly dead soldiers (say, half of them) generates and starts twisting and screaming untill they either die or gets patched up by a medic. If they get patched up they of course shouldn't be setdamage back to 0 and grab their gun again, no, but combined with a medevac script it could get very impressive. Also, badly injured soldiers will twist and scream in pain untill a medic gets them back on their feet, together with a bleed script of course so you can't stay there all day.

Not only does this add realism and that the player watch himself from getting injured, it also makes the medic role much more interesting and important as it should be.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[DaveDash]

I have seriously wanted something like this for a long time. I tried using snypers "make units stronger" script to generate more injuries but when the AI's damage hit 0 it would teleport back up again. Perhaps it is a good base script to start from though.

I find the fact that OFP has virtually no cover and highly accurate weapons, you end up with 1 minute firefights which result in unrealistic death counts.

The atmosphere would be greatly improved with what you are suggesting.

[DBR_ONIX]

Hmm.. This would be pretty cool..
I'm sure you can get where someone has been hit.. The editor said handhit (heheh, either that or handshit... ) when I was typing in a command.. Not sure if it is a real working command though..
THen,
if (handhit == 1) {playmove "handshot"}

That anim would be someone holding there hand, and the say command to do shouting/screaming (maybe a randomness for them to be quiet..?)

Then the same with leg hit.. Rolling around screaming
And with if dammage = 0, set dammage them back a bit, so they're not fine again.. To detect if the medic has been
Then call in the evac script

There is a script in the beta, titled somthing like "Less hits, more wounded, more real?", that when you fired in full auto, your shots started to go everywhere.. Really made fire firhgts more interesting/long..
Maybe this could be incorperated?

I know a few people who are good with OFPAnim, I'll see if I can get them to have a go at a few anims
- Ben

[Dubieman]

Sounds really good. Dudes in OFP get injured and can crawl around but like Onix mentioned "no cover and highly accurate weapons make for 1 minute fire fights" the healing in current OFP works for the gameplay out there now. I would really like to see a good medevac + medic + injured script. I'd like to see myself rolling around on the ground in third person.

[DaveDash]

Also another pet hate of mine is that a lot of the addons (such as BAS and Shueys Marines) make the soldiers fire single shots from their guns. All the BAS tango machine gunners fire in single shot mode!
While I can understand say, U.S. Marines using their weapons in single shot mode, machine gunners (such as the old Delta & Rangers SAW Gunners) should NOT.
This effectively ups the accuracy of such weapons, negating any form of surpression and fire dispersion scripting opportunities.
I could effectively use the Rangers SAW as a sniper rifle (especially with the scope on it).
Editing the config file is also fruitless, because the first shots are always so accurate. Something really needs to be done about the recoil in OFP to make it more realistic. Using the BAS SAW the recoil is about 1mm on the scope! This is more something that addon makers need to be aware of I think, rather than the topic at hand. I find the recoils on most of the default BIS weapons OK (altho still too accurate for my tastes, especially due to the low cover of OFP, no breathing effects, etc).

I think the best way to approach this issue (more wounded) is to start from synper's "Make Units Tougher" script, and add in the appropriate animations etc.. I've noticed in the BAS Delta's when you get hit you roll over and heal yourself so this is certainly possible (minus the healing of course)

Also I think someone needs to create a "battle sound" script where it adds more soldiers communication (voices and all that). There was an improved AI script that did this, but the voices tended to be a bit wacky sometimes and quite loud too. More wounded noises are definately needed.

At the end of the day, we need more engaging firefights in OFP, where you get bullets whizzing around your head. It's either complete kill or complete miss, which ruins the atmosphere a bit. More wounded are not only realistic, but adds to the atmosphere.

[Kammak]

RE: DaveDash's remarks about gunners firing single shot

We have a totally different experience going on here!  I play almost exclusively with Earl&Suchey's Marines and the BAS addons, and my biggest complaint has been the LACK of fire discipline of the gunners.

How are you seeing single shots for SAW gunners?  On my system, these barrels would be overheated and warped at the rate the AI fires them...repeated streams of ten-second cyclic firing...tracers trails that can be seen from the moon!

Put a Marine Assault Pack or BAS SAW gunner in front of an enemy TRUCK and watch what happens...they hate trucks for some reason.  

Seriously, you really are getting single shot bursts from the AI?  How very odd that mine are the opposite?!

RE: The subject

I really don't WANT to see guys in agony in a computer game...kinda takes the *fun* out of it to see your buddies in their death throes.  I think the current system is fine, but the medic should be removed.  Either you are wounded but still functional, or you are out of the game for a while...no magic medic is going to put you back into the fight after five seconds of "treatment".  I don't consider the "dead" guys dead, just out of action due to injuries.

Now, if you want to make a sub-game out of OFP, focusing on saving lives as a medic in combat, that would be very cool!  Your primary job would be instant triage and stabilization while everyone else is fighting...very unnerving and frustrating to put it mildly.  Deciding who gets the limited supplies you have on hand, who can be saved and who is beyond hope (but still alive RIGHT NOW), waiting for the whoopwhoopwhoop of the medivac chopper...could be a very challenging game.

[Kammak]

RE: The accuracy - are you all using BAS HD magazines?  I find they add a lot to the game by dragging out the fights.

Earl and Suchey's Marines are now fully compatible with JAM, including HD magazines (both USMC and Russians). For addons that aren't JAM HD compatible, I now replace the units' default weapons with Marine Assault Pack Russian JAM HD weapons in the editor, and it makes for very engaging fights.

It certainly makes the machine guns more suppresive (at least to human players).  

[DaveDash]

RE: DaveDash's remarks about gunners firing single shot

We have a totally different experience going on here!  I play almost exclusively with Earl&Suchey's Marines and the BAS addons, and my biggest complaint has been the LACK of fire discipline of the gunners.

How are you seeing single shots for SAW gunners?  On my system, these barrels would be overheated and warped at the rate the AI fires them...repeated streams of ten-second cyclic firing...tracers trails that can be seen from the moon!

Put a Marine Assault Pack or BAS SAW gunner in front of an enemy TRUCK and watch what happens...they hate trucks for some reason.  

Seriously, you really are getting single shot bursts from the AI?  How very odd that mine are the opposite?!

RE: The subject

I really don't WANT to see guys in agony in a computer game...kinda takes the *fun* out of it to see your buddies in their death throes.  I think the current system is fine, but the medic should be removed.  Either you are wounded but still functional, or you are out of the game for a while...no magic medic is going to put you back into the fight after five seconds of "treatment".  I don't consider the "dead" guys dead, just out of action due to injuries.

Now, if you want to make a sub-game out of OFP, focusing on saving lives as a medic in combat, that would be very cool!  Your primary job would be instant triage and stabilization while everyone else is fighting...very unnerving and frustrating to put it mildly.  Deciding who gets the limited supplies you have on hand, who can be saved and who is beyond hope (but still alive RIGHT NOW), waiting for the whoopwhoopwhoop of the medivac chopper...could be a very challenging game.

I actually posted this in the BAS thread as it's more appropriate there, but I will put a brief reply here.

The new BAS Delta Force/Rangers pack I have noticed the saw gunners fire fully automatic now, but the previous ones they certainly did not. Also, the Tango's definately fire single shot bursts. All my fire fights not only sounded ridiculous (like a whole heap of pop guns going off), and really killed the atmosphere (pop pop pop pop pop pop pop)

As for using HD JAM2 yes, they seem to work for Tango's and normal Russians, but the Delta/Rangers still seem waaaaaaaaay to accurate (especially over long distances). I havn't tried the Marines with JAM2 yet I don't think so I will have to give them a go.

Part of the problem isn't  the accuracy, but the shere lack of cover. Also the AI running about like a bunch of headless chickens really makes them easy targets.

As for the topic, more wounded isn't nice, but it really adds to the atmosphere of the game. One of the big turn offs for me in America's Army(which I think has a very good atmosphere, the combat is great) is the fact it feels so damn unrealistic when you shoot someone. They fall over like some comedy war movie. It's a bit disconcerting that they use it as a recruiting tool, but you can see why they don't want gory deaths in it obviously.

[dmakatra]

Kammak: As I said in the first post I see this very ironicly that one of the most awful things in war can do so much for a game. I don't look at this as a "We make a Postal 2 mod, duh, duh, funny, me so lame" but as a great atmosphere tool. I think most people playing OFP want the missions to be as realistic as possible, and if we can get the atmosphere from say, Call of Duty Single Player, into OFP we would had an almost perfect game with an atmosphere and realism that no one ever seen before.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[DBR_ONIX]

Yeah
I'd would add a lot to a mission
Sorta your best friend has just been hit, hes lying next to you and your holding back the enemy til a medic can patch him up a bit, and get him out
Better than him go prone beside you and fire perfectly

Besides, I am guessing one of the main reasons (Aside from the mods and addons etc) you all paly OFP so much is the realism.. This would remove the biggest, uh "not real-est" bit...
If ya see

This aint gonna turn OFP into Postal 2.. One reason, Postal is rubbish, OFP isn't
Besides, postal 2 is mindless violence.. OFP atleast has a reason..

Anyway, I've got someone to start work on a first hurt anim
- Ben

[Dubieman]

Off Topic since everyone else is: The AI handling machine guns and add on machine guns is ghastly. The way the engine is coded, AI aim to kill. Not support or for cover fire. Due to the lack of cover fire AI don't take cover very well. Machine gunners are mainly support and cover guys so the riflemen can get close and pop guys off. I'd agree weapons are way to accurate and should be reduced to a point near the Kozsclice's accuracy to make it more real.

On topic cause I wanna be: I'm not sure the medic thing will work out great for one reason. Playability suffers for some. Hell its cool to get shot then look around the corner again to shoot the guy, go over to the medic and poof your healed ready to go kill some more. Some ppl will like it and others loathe it. Its a good aspect for realism.

I hope this is addressed in OFP 2 I mean they could stand to outdue themselves in injury/ medics.

phew....

[dmakatra]

You are still healed, it's just that the medic has to come to you when you are crying for help. Just take a little while more but a more seriousness in getting wounded and that medics need to be brave . Maybe add some script that would make the medic a less important target for the AI. I mean, if the AI can see 3 guys where 1 is a medic the script should do so that he shoots the other 2 loons first. People won't notice any gameplay difference I think but if you're wounded and all your medics were killed direclty it's not that fun.

Of course, this script shouldn't be added when the player is medic as it would make him too good.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[Dubieman]

Hmmm interesting. That sounds good. The only problem is that if the medic is shooting at them, does the medic still get a back seat in targeting by the enemy who is targeting say a farther away allied dude?

In a way that's like a helicopter going after farther away tanks while a truck with a stinger missile(imaginary i know) fires at it. That's another way to put it.

So maybe you could set values for how long your healthcare takes you.

10% = regular healing time
20% = +5 secs
30% = +10 secs
40% = +15 secs
50% = +20 secs
60% = +30secs
75% = +40secs
80%= +45secs
95% & up = +50 secs

Maybe something to that degree...

[Pathy]

Good job i caught this thread.

Nightstalker Mod are making what we are calling Advanced wounding system. We have a scripter and 2 animators working on it, it will have a complete set of custom anims, sounds and FX.

It is basically what The Real Armstrong wants. Its for the mod but we will make it open source. However, you would have to include certain things into unit addons (Hidden selections, ect) to make it work properly.

Ermm i dont want to ruin the suprise, but there will be alot of wound types, depending on the region of the body that has been hit and how bad it has been hit, combined with some randomised chance (i know that sounds half arsed, but trust me it makes sense.....only describing it in a way that takes sense usually takes me 45 minutes and i have 5), each wound type with its own effect and anim, bleed out rate, ect. EG, someone gets hit in the throat, they roll around in agony with thier hands at thier neck, blood spurting and making a hissing gurgling sound. And apparently, according to the Ex Army medic whos advising us, there is nothing you can do for someone like that but hold their hand.

Then there will be the custom medic system to compliment this. Medics will no longer miraculously heal units. You will have to select the correct procedure, get the wrong one and the patient suffers, get the right one and it may still fail, depending on the risk of the procedure. If it suceeds, the injured party will still not be back on their feet again. Instead, thier condition will deteriate until medevac'd, stabilise, or improve slowly, depending how serious the wound is.....The medic treatments will also have thier own anims.

Ermm ive missed a hell of a lot out, but, i believe this is the answer to your prayer. Weve had the concept in mind for about 4 months, but we are finally getting moving.....we have 2 animators working flat out, but *hint hint* more would help us speed up the process. The script itself wont take too long to complete, but its the fine tuning of it that will be the issue, getting the balance perfect.

Anyway, although its for the mod, it will be open source, but as i say, addons will need to be enabled for use with it......

[dmakatra]

Those this also work on dead ppl or just injured? 'Cause in OFP, you die with 2 shots in your leg. Sure, I wouldn't been able to keep fighting but die as in OFP die-directly die?

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat: