Stoner SR-47, A 7.62WP Cahmering M4

[Fishion]

First I though this would be a nice project to learn the way
of O², but then I don't even got the time for it.
Seems like a nice weapon. The punch on an AK coupled
with the accuracy and other features of an M4...

http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/co/13250/1.html

Anybody up for it? Would be a perfect addition to Flipers
M4 pack wouldn't it?

-Fishion

[Eviscerator]

the ak and the m4/m16 have the same stopping power ingame, and since when was the m4 accurate?

[Fishion]

Isn't the M4 more accurate than the Ak?

Besides in reality the Ak has a bigger stopping power
(the Ak47 not the Ak74!!!) since it uses a heavier bullet...
well like the 7.62 NATO compared to the 5.56 NATO guns.

Though I still think it would be just a cool weapon

-Fishion

[madmedic]

the ak and the m4/m16 have the same stopping power ingame, and since when was the m4 accurate?

Actually...an M4 is not as accurate as a standard 20" M16, and does not have the same muzzle velocity (due to shorter barrel)....but it IS more accurate than the average AK47

[DrMeatballs]

There are numerous remakes of the m4 in a number of "interesting" calibres but to be honest why go to all the bother of making a 7.62mm M4 when there are already a number of tried and tested 7.62mm nato weapons out there and a number of them are in shortened form anyway such as the G3K and the FN FAL shorty(not shure if this is a real gun or not).

[Eviscerator]

i was talking about ingame, which is why you see the nice little word there in my post not just for decoration and how can a m4 be more accurate than the ak-47? im nowhere near an expert but just by looking at the physical attributes the Ak-74 is chambered in a much bigger bullet, the barrel is  longer and with the bog standard wooden stock and firing single shots it would probably be pretty accurate

[MadGav]

There are a number of things which will affect accuracy, but (according to guns.ru) a major one is the low quality of Russian ammunition. The 5.56N chambered AK100 series rifles are supposed to be considerably more accurate, and in this case all other factors are equal.

[madmedic]

i was talking about ingame, which is why you see the nice little word there in my post not just for decoration and how can a m4 be more accurate than the ak-47? im nowhere near an expert but just by looking at the physical attributes the Ak-74 is chambered in a much bigger bullet, the barrel is  longer and with the bog standard wooden stock and firing single shots it would probably be pretty accurate

An AK47 is built to be tough, reliable, cheap/easy to build, and simple to use and maintain.
The reason they earned their reputation for reliability in even the dirtiest/muddiest/nastiest environment...is because they are built to very loose tolerances (the moving parts inside do not fit together tightly e.g. bolt/bolt carrier ect. ect)
they also have a violently operating action, with a stout recoil for a medium cartridge weapon,  and they have a simple "notch and post" sight system.  The buttstock on an AK47 also lacks good ergonomics in many people's opinion.

As far as barrel length, ...if you are talking about the "BIS" M4 in the game...It is completely incorrect.
The M4 has a standard 14" barrel with cutouts for an M203 grenade launcher  (Fliper's models are pretty accurate in that respect)
Bullet size has little to do with accuracy potential (note that the standard M16 is a very accurate weapon)

The AK47 is without a doubt the most prolific, mass produced, and widely used assault rifle in the world for all the reasons I mentioned above....but known for accuracy, they are not.
 
BTW,... I know you were talking about "in game"...I was only commenting on the "since when are M4s accurate" part

[madmedic]

And BTW,...just to qualify my statements, I am an avid firearms enthusiast/collector,...and I own several examples of both rifles in question

[madmedic]

Besides in reality the Ak has a bigger stopping power
(the Ak47 not the Ak74!!!) since it uses a heavier bullet...
well like the 7.62 NATO compared to the 5.56 NATO guns

-Fishion

BIG difference in 7.62 NATO, and 7.62 x 39 (AK47 fires 7.62x39) same diameter bullet...but 7.62 NATO is a bigger cartgidge

Also...5.56 Nato has an interesting quality to it: (if the projectile is moving at least 2800 fps...it fragments very violently while passing through flesh) kind of like a hollow point.
there were case studies done on it because they noticed in Viet Nam that sometimes they would find dead enemy soldiers with enormous exit wounds.
 
This is one place where barrel length comes into play...(the longer the barrel, the greater the muzzle velocity)  and the greater the distance the projetile will be moving at optimum speeds for fragmentation.
(The 14" M4 barrel brings that down to around 300m, or there abouts)

BTW...there are civilian AR15s chambered in 7.62 x 39, but as far as I know they were never used by the military.....NOW, on the OTHER hand...there is the AR10, which is basically an up-gunned M16 that fires 7.62 NATO.
They were marketed by Armalite, the US military never used them,...but there were a very few other countries that did, (I believe the Dutch did, but Im not sure)

[Fishion]

BTW...there are civilian AR15s chambered in 7.62 x 39, but as far as I know they were never used by the military.....NOW, on the OTHER hand...there is the AR10, which is basically an up-gunned M16 that fires 7.62 NATO.
They were marketed by Armalite, the US military never used them,...but there were a very few other countries that did, (I believe the Dutch did, but Im not sure)

Why do you think I postet that link?
http://securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2100/2138.htm

-Fishion

[Fishion]

Besides as stopping power I understand the force that is
exerted on the target, not how effectivly the bullet kills.
The 5.56mm Rounds kill by Fragemntation and shock due to
the fast velocity, though everybody who has ready BHD or
has learned to shoot a 7.62mm rifle in the military knows that
they have a bigger penetrating power, and usually a bigger
stopping power (not as much as a Pistol though).
As far as I know a 7.62NATO can pass through a 20cm treelog
and you need quite alot of sandbags to stop it.
To from BHD:

If someone goes down, you want him to stay down...

On the other hand we are talking about the 7.62WP.
Though if you have read the link you'd know that the main
reason to employ the weapon was ammunition shortage
in caves were they'd find more than enough 7.62WP ammo.

-Fishion

[madmedic]

Why do you think I postet that link?
http://securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2100/2138.htm
-Fishion

 ;D LOL...Fishion, ...LOOK at your original post,...THAT is not the link you posted  
The link in your first post leads to something about the war on terrorism....NOT the rifle.
(I was wondering about that when I read your firs post)

[madmedic]

The 5.56mm Rounds kill by Fragemntation and shock due to
the fast velocity, though everybody who has ready BHD or
has learned to shoot a 7.62mm rifle in the military knows that
they have a bigger penetrating power, and usually a bigger
stopping power (not as much as a Pistol though).
As far as I know a 7.62NATO can pass through a 20cm treelog
and you need quite alot of sandbags to stop it.

On the other hand we are talking about the 7.62WP.
Though if you have read the link you'd know that the main
reason to employ the weapon was ammunition shortage
in caves were they'd find more than enough 7.62WP ammo.

Well...now that you have posted the RIGHT link,...I HAVE read it (good link BTW...the first I had heard of that weapon)

now...ballistics  ;D :  "stopping power" occurs when the bullet transferes its energy to the target...the easiest way to do that is for the bullet to fragment inside the body,  NOT to go straight through.
In my statement above, I was NOT saying that 5.56 has MORE stopping power than 7.62 Nato.  I was just pointing out an interesting fact that some people do not realise about 5.56 ammo, and I was just trying to make sure that everyone realised that 7.62 Nato (308 Winchester) and 7.62 WP, are two very different rounds.
You obviously already knew that, but I was not aware you did, because your link was messed up
As far as Black Hawk Down, the main reason Task Force Ranger didn't seem to be getting "stopping power" from their M4s. was because the enemy was jacked up on "khat" (or whatever they call it)
Another quote from that book has an M60 gunner firing a burst of 7.62 Nato into a "skinny", and then having to fire ANOTHER burst into him, because he got back up.

Anyway we are getting off topic here now ..LOL.., and after following your "fixed" link, I now realize what type of rifle you are talking about, and I also think it would be an excellent addition to Flipers M4s.

[Davies1]

indeed.
But I was always under the interpretation from my army buddies that 7.62 is designed for the simple art of killing and that a 5.56 round although deadly (as all bullets) is more for the use of wounding a soldier, because they know that a wounded solldier will take a further two to carry him off the field and tend to him. Thus 3 soldiers out of action for the price of 1.
I also know that an all manor of different ammo affects this and a wounded soldier may well die but this in itself has bought that small amount of time for whoever shot him.

Strange way of thinking but true.