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Author Topic: Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!  (Read 6834 times)

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Offline dmakatra

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #15 on: 13 Aug 2003, 13:19:59 »
Thanks m8s. This is some usefull stuff. Maybe some1 could do a reference tute outta it?

But I have a question though, what about the airforce? Choppas and Planes? :)

Offline Killswitch

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #16 on: 13 Aug 2003, 14:16:19 »
For a bit more reading, check this thread on the official forums: Platoon, regimen and correct names

It basically has the same material that's aldready been stated here, but anyway...

For air force units, theres another set of concepts. You will see/hear words such as
element, flight, package for planes/helos that are on a mission.

Units are organized in troops, squadrons, wings, flotillas, air groups and air forces.

The usage of some of those words seem to vary through history, though, so someone else might
make a more correct list for todays world.

An air squadron is something of a battalion and a wing is like a regiment, I believe one could say.


TrackenHit

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #17 on: 14 Aug 2003, 04:17:04 »
O, someone mentioned the 101st(Air Assault) as a Division. Thats true, but when the Division has 20,000 soldiers is more of a Corp of two Divisions with 10k each, than just one Division of 20k....IMO.



Just a good note. The United States has always been named its units as belonging to a Division. Such as if you where in the 504 regiment, then you would say you where part of the 82nd Division(or 101..whatever).   Though in some countries, for instance Canda, Britain and the commonwelth, you are know to be part of a regiment and not a Division. Such as you would say you are in the 22nd SAS Regiment, or the Princess Patricias Canadian Light Infantry Regiment(PPCLI), or the RCR(Royal Canadian Regiment).  

Just a little piece of info most people don't know about ;).

Semith

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Platoons
« Reply #18 on: 14 Aug 2003, 06:46:27 »
Just today I was looking at specific company structures of different infantry units.  Remember, different groups use different structures depending on their purpose.  

There are 5 basic configurations of infantry on both the platoon and company levels:  Light, Heavy, Air Assault (helicopters), Airborne (paratroopers), and Ranger.  All of which are similar.

Before I go any farther, you need to know about the rifle squad (Figure A-6 in the provided PLATOON link).  Basic composition is 9 men:  1 Squad Leader (SL), 2 Fireteam Leaders (FTL), 2 Automatic Riflemen (using the M249 SAW), and 2 regular riflemen.  Each fireteam has 4 soldiers, 1 of each other than the SL.  In OFP, you can make the extra riflemen AT soldiers, medics, snipers, etc.

Ok, now the platoons:
Light infantry platoons (Figure A-1) have 3 rifle squads and a command squad.  The command squad has 9 men:
1 Platoon leader (a lieutenant known as the PL)  *note:  PL = Platoon Leader but PLT = Platoon!
1 Platoon Sergeant
1 RAdioTELephOne (RATELO) operator
2 machine gunners (use M240 if possible or M60)
2 assistant gunners  
In OFP, I use the BAStudios radio operator.  Also, you can use riflemen instead of assistant gunners or remove the gunners completly.

Heavy (regular) infantry platoons (Figure A-2) have 3 rifle squads, 1 heavy weapons squad and 1 command squad.  The command squad has only 3 men:  
1 PL
1 PSG
1 RATELO  
The heavy weapons squad has 9 men:
1 SL
2 Machine gunners
2 Assistant gunners
2 Antiarmor soldiers
2 Assistant Antiarmor soldiers

Air Assault platoons (Figure A-3) and Airborne platoons (Figure A-4) are identical to regular infantry.

Ranger platoons (Figure A-5) have 3 rifle squads, 1 machinegun squad, and 1 command squad.  The MGN squad has:
1 SL
3 MGunners
3 Assistant gunners
3 Ammunition gunners
Note the lack of AT specialists.

Also, platoons can have an aidman (medic) and a forward observer (FO), which are usually attached to the command squad.  1 medic for over 30 men is tough in OFP, but in the real world, 3 medics in a company is almost always more than enough.

So, basicly to simulate a mission in OFP involving a platoon, simply have 4-5 squads of about 9 men with separate waypoints.  The field manual at the link also shows platoon fromations, which may help when coordinating your squad waypoints, though the default squad formations of OFP are mostly old, outdated WWII ones.  You will need to hunt for them though.

Platoon organization PICTURES:  http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/7-8/appa.htm

I will post about companies shortly.

Semith

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Companys
« Reply #19 on: 14 Aug 2003, 07:48:37 »
Ok, Companies are a little more complicated.  First, understand that resembling a company in OFP is very difficult.  However, it is possible to resemble a portion of a company.  Anyhow, it is important to understand a company when making missions on a platoon level anyway.

Once again, there are 5 basic types of infantry companies:  light, heavy (regular), air assault, airborne, and ranger.  Each company generaly has a squad-sized command element, 3 rifle platoons, and a heavyweapons/mortar platoon.  Now for some specifics:

Light infantry company
1 command section (CO HQ) - 9 men: 2 officers (CO & XO), 1 First Sergeant (1SG), 1 Fire Support Officer (FSO), 1 Communications sergeant, 1+ RATELO operators, 1 Supply Sergeant, 1 NBC NCO, 1 Armorer
3 light rifle platoons (shown in above post)
1 antiarmor section - 13 men total, not sure who or what
1 mortar section - 6 men: 1 Section Sergeant, 1 SL, 2 mortar gunners, 2 assistants

Airborne infantry company
1 CO HQ
3 airborne rifle platoons
1 mortar section

Air assault infantry company
1 CO HQ
3 air assault rifle platoons
1 heavy weapons platoon - composed of 1 mortar section and 1 antiarmor section (not sure why this is a platoon while light infantry does not.  mobility issue?)

Ranger company
1 CO HQ
3 ranger platoons
1 weapons platoon - composed of:  1 platoon hq, 1 mortar section, 1 antiarmor section.

Regular infantry company
1 CO HQ
3 rifle platoons
1 mortar platoon - 1 PLT HQ, 3 mortar squads: 5 men each supporting an 81mm mortar (instead of 60mm)
7 HMMWVs
1 2.5 ton truck w/ trailer
Note: regular infantry has larger squads (11 men each), heavier mortars, a .50 MG, and its own vehicles.

Anyway, companies have about 125 men, so using them in OFP makes things difficult.  As I mentioned earlier, you can use a portion of a company in your map.  

For example, the CO HQ usually sets up a command post in the field (CP).  In a platoon-sized map, you could have the player be a platoon leader and visit/start at the CP where he recieves his orders/gets briefed.  Then, he must travel to his platoon and join his squad and start a platoon attack, following the rest of his waypoints.  Through scripting, you might be able to guide the other squads and call in airstrikes/artillery.  If not, the PL or PSG usually positions the 2-3 machineguns if part of the PLT HQ.

Company organization pictures: http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/7-10/ch1.htm#c1p17

Battalions... I don't have much knowledge on them, but I do know that they are usually assigned an area the size of Nogova to control.  Maybe the player can visit the BN HQ in a mission or something.  For information on a rifle battalion: http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/7-20/toc.htm

Semith

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #20 on: 14 Aug 2003, 08:31:58 »
Ah, im bored, so ill give you more information.  Better to be overloaded than to be wanting information...

Mechanized infantry platoon Bradley, very simple:
4 Bradley Fighting Vehicle (BFV) + 12 crew.  Commander of the first vehicle is the Platoon Leader (PL) and his vehicle is known as the command vehicle.  The commander of the 2nd vehicle is the Platoon Sergeant (PSG) and the vehicle is the PSG vehicle.  The other 2 BFVs (3 and 4) are commanded by sergeants, usually SSGs.
2 squads of 12 infantry each.
Now, each BFV holds 6 infantry, so the squads split up into 2 vehicles.  When fighting, all the infantry disembark and form 2 squads.  Usually, the 4 BFVs will attack from one direction and the infantry from another (through a forest, for example) so that the enemy has more to worry about and a larger arc to cover.  
Also, the vehicles can split into pairs (to take on 2 objectives, for example).  Usually, the PL leads 1 pair and the PSG leads the other.  The infantry are seated so each squad is in different pairs instead of having two halfs of two squads.

Different topic:  Air assault and helicopters.  Earlier, I covered the infantry part but didn't mention how they get there.  This will involve a little more depth, unfortunately.  First, I need to expand into Divisions, Regiments, brigades, and battalions...

Ok, a regiment is composed of 3 battalions and battalions are composed of 3 companies (each also has a command section, but ignore that for now).  Divisions have a few (usually 3) regiments of infantry, an air defense artillery (ADA) battalion, a military intelignece (MI) battalion, a chemical company, a military police (MP) company, an engineering battalion, support battalions, etc. and most importantly, a helicopter regiment.

When war is waged, you obviously don't send a regiment of chinooks off to attack town A and then send a regiment of infantry to attack town B.  Instead, a brigade is formed...  If you take one battalion of helicopters from the helo regiment and one regiment of air assault infantry, plus a company of ADA, a MI company, a chemical platoon, an MP platoon, etc. you get a brigade.  You can form 3 brigades from the 3 regiments of infantry, helicopters, etc.

Anyway, there is usually a surplus of helicopters for the infantry, the rest carry equipment.  For an air assault platoon of about 35, you simply need 2 chinooks or 4 blackhawks.  Other helicopters like kiowas and utility helicopters are part of division, but may appear to assist an individual platoon.

Enough ranting, maybe i'll cover more later.

Iwesshome

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #21 on: 14 Aug 2003, 17:24:18 »
Semith,

Thank you so much for taking the time in posting this wonderful information for us.

~Iwesshome

DDT

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #22 on: 14 Aug 2003, 17:32:39 »
To add to what Semith said:  When there is war Battalions gain people from other Battalions, Posts, Etc., and form something called a Task Force.  This happens because not all units have every kind of support.  When i was in the Army we had to have a Platoon of Bradleys attached to my Scout platoon.  As a Battalion we had MP'S, other types of medics, and engineers attached to us.

Semith

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #23 on: 14 Aug 2003, 18:09:20 »
DDT is right.  In the brigade I mentioned, they wouldnt keep all the ADA, the MPs, the chemical troops, etc. together in clumps.  They would spread the ADA around to cover everything, and such.  Often, they are assigned to smaller units like a battalion.

DDT

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #24 on: 15 Aug 2003, 02:10:49 »
Basically you can take anykind of unit and change it however you want.  That is what the Battalion Commander or Brigade Commander does anyways.  If you look at the FM's and all the other documentation that certain websites provide it is just an example or something that the commander or the Military may want to achieve.  But in no way is it correct.  Is what is correct is what the Commander feels comfortable with and what he feels that he can win the battle with.  There are very few units that are absolutely correct with the overall military SOP.  That is why each battalion has a specific one that is written up and given to the task force commander so he can decide on what kind of attack plan he is going to use.

Offline macguba

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #25 on: 17 Aug 2003, 12:53:06 »
There's a lot of excellent information in this thread and all I can add is one point and one simplification.

The point is that in different countries the organisation is  slightly different.  

The simplification is that, in general, three or four of the smaller unit make up one of the larger:-

3 or 4 sections/squads in a platoon/troop
3 or 4 platoons/troops in a company/squadron
3 or 4 companies/squadrons in a battalion/regiment
3 or 4 battalions/regiments in a brigade (1 star command)
3 or 4 brigades in a division (2 star)
3 or 4 divisions in a corps
3 or 4 corps in an army
3 or 4 armies in an army group

A infantry company from whatever period (from the Romans to the present) and whatever country has, very roughly, about 100 men.

Plenty of reviewed ArmA missions for you to play

TrackenHit

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #26 on: 27 Aug 2003, 05:19:46 »
http://www.100thww2.org/100org/100org.html

They have some sort of Division breakdown here....kinda neat, but too much info for me, lol.

Offline Roni

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t! - My Two Cents
« Reply #27 on: 07 Oct 2003, 07:15:25 »
Looks like it's all been said here, but for what it's worth . . .


Historically the various units were all built from the ground up as and when they became necessary.

For instance - in the Middle Ages the standard fighting unit was the Company - so called because of the company of men that formed it.  Incidentally, this is also the basis of our other word "company" - an en enterprise, whether of a commercial nature or not (hence - "Captains of Industry").

Battalions were formed from companies for a specific "Battle" purpose.  Regiments were the first organic, continuous military units in existence in the West since the fall of the Roman Empire.  The very first regiments were most often formed by Royal Charter, which specified how many men, guns, battalions, etc were to be in the unit.

Divisions didn't come about until the turn of the 18th century.  The first Divisions were simply "components of the whole Army" - hence the term.  For instance a given Army might be divided into two Divisions for one battle and three for the next, as the battle dictated.  In time, these assignments tended to become institutionalised as the formal Divisions that we know today.

Corps were first introduced in the Napoleonic era to provide a measure of control for the much larger armies that were created by conscription, which was a novel invention of the Revolutionary French government.

The rest (Army, Army Group, Front, Theatre of Operations) were all formed pretty much ad hoc.  I remember reading that the Germans in WWI were at a disadvantage in the opening months because they had no formal Army Group structure (a deficiency that they fixed up pretty quick).  WWI also brought the concept of Theatre commands, brought about becase of the global nature of the conflict.

Today, I understand that there is still a specific "role" for each and every unit.  For instance - the Division is supposed to be the smallest unit that can (theoretically) operate on its own.  Divisions usually have their own units for EW, signals, CBR, media, dentistry, payroll, accounting and so on.  Regiments are still the smallest continuous units, companies are still the fundamental building blocks for combined arms operations and so on.

As someone said earlier in this thread though - the commander on the spot can basically do whatever he wants to the organisation, just so long as it works  ;D



Roni








Offline SEAL84

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #28 on: 08 Oct 2003, 15:27:38 »
Could anyone give us some examples of different units that belong to a Regiment, Battalion, or Division level?

I think for example the 82nd Airborne is as at Brigade level and Rangers are at Regiment level… correct?


Like somebody said, 101st and 82nd Airborne are Divisions, but the 173rd is a Brigade.  

The main Ranger unit is the 75th Ranger Regiment.  Back in Vietnam, the airborne divisions had their own Ranger companies, but a little bit before Grenada all the Rangers were consolidated into the 75 Ranger Regiment, if memory serves.

Josef

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Re:Companys, Batallions, Platoons and sh*t!
« Reply #29 on: 08 Oct 2003, 22:10:45 »
If anyone wanna know the org of the Inperial Guard, or The Space Marines, il help, besides that, nope...