(Review Completed) [SP] Un-Impossible Mission

[macguba]

I have amended the script that deals with the moved waypoints of the Bradley group and its seperate dismounts.   As suggested by THobson, the waypoints are now placed onto the first detected east loon, rather than just onto the west groups' leaders current positions.

The new version includes the immortal line:-

[bradleyGuard, 4] setWPPos [(getPos (list dismount1T select 0) select 0) + ((random 60) - 120), (getPos (list dismount1T select 0) select 1) + ((random 60) - 120), 0]

[THobson]

That is neat.  Presumably there is something similar for the other WP as well.  I was wondering what happened if the S&D waypoint happens to land  in the middle of a forest so I wrote a little missionette to test it.  I am sure you tested it also, I was pleasantly surprised by how realistically the armour behaved.

There is always a danger that by defending against one set of tactics a weakness is made against other ways of doing it.  With that caveat:

I've also made 4 groups anti-tank groups by giving them up to two LAW, one AA and two AT  loons.

The way I did it if any of these groups were in an un-wooded part of The Hill (mainly on the west side) it would have made no difference to me.  I took those infantry groups out from long range.  The infantry near the Ammo & UAZ and on top of The Hill were quite a different matter.  

At Ammo & UAZ I had no option but to get in close to find them amongst the trees but it was when I got to the top of The Hill in the Abrams for the first time that I really took a pounding, I just could not depress the elevation of the gun enough or quickly enough.  I had to retire quickly and go and get repaired.  I may be wrong, but I think the infantry followed me, either that or they did not rearm while I was away because the next time I got to the top there was no problem.  If it was not the loons on the top that chased me it must of been some of the others because some certainly did.

So: LAW soldiers on the top of The Hill can be deadly to tanks - espcially if
- they stay there and don't go chasing down The Hill
- they rearm when they get the chance.

Some infantry groups certainly committed suicide by chasing me back to my base.  

There may be some none cheating ways to deal with these points - but the solution might make other ways of doing the mission that much easier.

[macguba]

I didn't test the S&D in the forest thing:   I thought about it, and decided that if the enemy was in a forest the armoured group would'nt be called in anyway.   If it was, they'd just mill around on the edge of the forest until they lost contact and the waypoints were reset.    Being armour they are much less likely to get stuck than jeeps.

I did think of you blasting these AT groups from long range, and smiled.   And then I thought of you missing one and your little armoured column being completely taken out in 6-7 seconds and I smiled even more.   ;D   The secondary weapons theoretically make them slightly easier for your loons to spot but that doesn't matter.  The point is that these groups are a genuine threat to an Abrams.  Although why they'd be carrying so much ironmongery against an spetz natz attack remains a mystery .....  ;D

Some of the infantry on the hilltop are switched into Guard when you appear, so they probably did follow you.    I suppose I could write a routine that detects if you're in a vehicle and changes their behaviour but I've got to draw the line somewhere.    AI rearming is always a problem: the plain fact is that they don't do it by themselves as far as I can see.    Again, I suppose I could write a rearming script ..... somebody might have done it already, I'll try the Ed Depot.   I wouldn't count that as cheating provided they actually took real ammo from real ammo crates or bodies.    If you want to stop them rearming you can shoot them as they bend over to pick it up.

I confess I wouldn't have taken the tank up the hill, that's too much like hard work.    I would just have shelled and shelled and shelled.

[THobson]

If you want to stop them rearming you can shoot them as they bend over to pick it up.

I guess that stops them doing just about everything ;D

I confess I wouldn't have taken the tank up the hill, that's too much like hard work.

All that armour plating feels very cosywhen you know there are snipers about!

[THobson]

Also:

Fixed medium armour group dismount bug

I can't figure out how these infantry get out of their Bradley.

[macguba]

They just do.    They are part of the group and dismount and mount as the group leader demands.   Scripting not required.  

Fixing the bug was just adding assignAsCargo commands:  previously they had only moveInCargo, which means that the group leader doesn't "know" where they are.  

*Thinks: you moron macca, just use the In Cargo field*   Actually I won't change it because the current system ain't broke so I ain't a-gonna change it.

[THobson]

Thanks.  That helps.  I saw the assignAsCargo commands and wondered why they were needed when you already had the moveInCargo command.

[Planck]

I've seen AI re-arming without any prompting from anyone.

I did a little test on Desert Island.

I put me and two enemy soldiers down.

Only one of the enemy soldiers had ammo.

As soon as the mission started I shot the loon with ammo.

Once the second loon stood up again, he ran over to the body and started collecting ammo.


It also works if I place a dead enemy soldier who is not part of their group.....giving him 0 health.

Unfortunately, they will not pick up a weapon or ammo from a dead enemy soldier though.

They would rather die than use an enemy weapon.



Planck

[macguba]

Hmm, I need to look into that.  I did a wee test mission this morning and they did nothing.

Edit:  A quick experiment (not an exhaustive test) suggests that a loon will NOT rearm either from body or ammo crate UNLESS

1)  he is completely out of all ammo

AND

2)  the dead body from which he can rearm was a member of his own group

I achieved the body by shooting rather than 0 health slider, which might make a difference.

[Planck]

In my experiments the loon re-armed from a dead member of his own group and a dead soldier of his own side, but not in his group.

Also he would re-arm from an ammo crate by himself, without prompting.

However, he would not change weapons with a dead enemy soldier.

Running ECP here, but doubt that makes any difference.


Planck

[macguba]

Strange, it doesn't work for me.    Even tried it in ECP.  

[THobson]

I have seen references to ECP in several places - what is it?

[Planck]

@THobson

Oh my oh my.........

Have you been living without ECP?

You should get it.......go here to find out about it:

http://www.ofpec.com/editors/ecfg/


I repeated my experiments, I did them about a week ago.

Everything still works as I stated previously, except, they wont use the ammo crates now...........strange.


Planck

[THobson]

Thanks.  Interesting.  As a result of previous experiences I now avoid using any addons - the only exception I have made is the editor update required for mac's mission here.  I am still not persuaded I want to change, I may even remove the editor upgrade when I have finished playing with mac's misison.  I mainly want to ensure that any missions I make can be played by anyone.  

Edit:
A few quotes from the link you showed:

Note 1: In a multiplayer environment all computers must have the ECP installed and running, otherwise there will be 'modified bin' error messages.
Note 3: If you use a plugin (INQ or DR) then you'll have to download the new INQ or DR config for version 1.071 from the plugin downloads below.

The default version of JAM will not work with the ECP. Download the ECP-compatible version below. This component is an optional addon and will work with any of the available ECP configs (ECP, ECP/DR, ECP/INQ).

This is exactly the sort of stuff I want to avoid.

[macguba]

ECP on MP is a bit of a nightmare, using it is a quick and effective way of gaining unpopularity.  ECP on small SP missions can be quite fun - the blood spurts and explosions for example.     It's too laggy on most comps for big missions like this one.

The trouble with addons is that afew of them are fantastic.   It's a classic baby & bathwater situtation.