(Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies

[Fragorl]

I didn't like to comment before, because i though that it was deliberate, but i too heard gunfire as i walked up the hill. Actually, it sounded exactly like a chopper launching some missiles at armour, but who knows. Its a mystery.  ;D

[THobson]

Bloody hell!!

Its back to the fjord for me.

[Mikero]

Good Grief!

In the debased language of today where everything a bit better than good is "awesome" and 'very' has to be prepended to every adjective to make it important, I'm loathe to call this mission a masterpiece, but can't think of anything more appropriate. You have purloined an entire genre, THobson. Who now can make a mission in this theme?

This mission has MacGuba's fingerprints all over it but another author has been a creative genius to make it his own. It's neither a mission, nor a campaign. It's a game in its own right that happens to use the ofp engine. Put it in shrink wrap and it would have been a $35 CD.

24 HOURS and 5 mins play time. according to the stats. Is that a definition of engrossing, of being immersed?

Some niggles. They are so minor they ordinarily wouldn't be mentioned but this mission deserves their comment:

Intro:
People who have already played this mission will miss it. The text pace is fast (thank God) unfortunately there's a quick passage surrounding "and then nothing".  I missed it's significance, ie, i didn't take in the downed airliner, it and the entire passage, were too quick for the information content. It has considerable impact on the why / where of what you you are.

Plan or notes:

I have a jotted comment that "either of them" should be replaced with the word 'side'. It's probably because the sentence/paragraph repeats itself.

Game General:

These are not niggles, simply how the game played for me, I stress the word game, not mission.

There was some confusion with the initial civilians. Depending on what I did first they would / wouldn't get in truck. Would / couldn't get in car and eventually ended up walking (which was perfectly ok) but the vehicles (plural) loading was messy, random.

Trinite was laggy, very. In fact, anywhere larger concentrations of vehicle caused large lag. (tanks eg). I learned to avoid any built up areas in order to play the game at all. (3gig+ cpu, 512 meg ram).

I learned to avoid using vehicles at all. My squad were mostly awol with this, no matter what i tried. That T80 i snaffled sure could have been helpful though.

At one point I wanted, desperately, to reach into the video screen and rip out that goddamn ap/av mine. Every time i reloaded I would plant one and blow myself up. I have the impression this is a legacy issue, something you liked, and don't want to remove it even though you know it's not that good. The AP stuff is  lethal. On a map of this scale i am garanteed to run into them myself at a later stage.

I can see that I *could* simply use up the buggers (both av and ap) by liberally sprinkling them along the supply routes, I can see that they would be the best way of cleaning up soft vehicles, BUT, i needed to take on tanks etc too often at later stages of gameplay, and it became a damn nuisance. I am hoping you might get rid of them.

Cutscene Storylines:

Simply wonderful. Immersive, intense. Some deal of dissapointment on my part that they began to taper off towards end of game. I wish / hope, you will liberally sprinkle them elsewhere.

Had the impression i was suppposed to attack Chapoi first (via storyline). Next game I'll go for the airport instead.

Gameplay:

The game is so overwhelming in detail that no critqiue can do it justice. Only point that simpy must be mentioned is that at no time were the enemy looking for contact lenses. They were aggressive / ferocious. The few that were not were understandably so, for all the right reasons. Loved the re-arming machine gun nests. Loved the random waypoints. Beautiful.

Readme:

I believe this is now inconsistent with V1.1, it did not appear to be relevant. I truly hope you did not spawn vehicles. I'm hoping for my game play I can go hunting them 1st, before they attack me.

Addons:

Not (in my never humble opinion) necessary. If all that's stopping this game being a general release is a Kiowa, replace it.

Outro:

I'll stand by my words, this is a masterpiece. You did credit to all those mentioned as beta testers, in a sophisticated, non cheesy way. They deserved to have their names stamped on this one and are undoubtedly honoured.

[THobson]

I wondered what you would make of it.  Thank you so much for your comments.  I have previously referred to making missions as like cooking.  Great fun on your own, for awhile.  But what really makes it is the appreciation of others.  For that I thank you.  

If you have time I would be interested in knowing how you approached the mission.  It is amazing how many problems I have noticed that the player didn't just by reading what he did.  If you don't have time that is fine.

On your comments:

People who have already played this mission will miss it. The text pace is fast (thank God) unfortunately there's a quick passage surrounding "and then nothing".  I missed it's significance, ie, i didn't take in the downed airliner, it and the entire passage, were too quick for the information content. It has considerable impact on the why / where of what you you are.

 Another thing that is striking is that all the things I feel a little uncomfortable with get picked up by beta testers.  There is a lot of the story at his point and it is a bit of a rush.  I want the music at the end to fade out as the scene fades out so there is a limited amount of time. I even start the text before the music which I am not happy about.  What I plan to do is to shave the odd fraction of a second or so from each of the little scenes to help with this.

I have a jotted comment that "either of them" should be replaced with the word 'side'. It's probably because the sentence/paragraph repeats itself.

Thanks.

There was some confusion with the initial civilians. Depending on what I did first they would / wouldn't get in truck. Would / couldn't get in car and eventually ended up walking (which was perfectly ok) but the vehicles (plural) loading was messy, random.

This is where more information would help me.  Henderson had a similar problem - did you take your whole squad with you?  Following Henderson's comments I looked at the code again last night.  It looks okay, but maybe there is something I am missing or perhaps there is another feature of OFP that I need to work around.  I need to do something about that car, either kill it or remove it.  

Trinite was laggy, very. In fact, anywhere larger concentrations of vehicle caused large lag. (tanks eg). I learned to avoid any built up areas in order to play the game at all. (3gig+ cpu, 512 meg ram).

That is a worry.  Do you know your OFP benchmark?

I learned to avoid using vehicles at all. My squad were mostly awol with this, no matter what i tried. That T80 i snaffled sure could have been helpful though.

Again some more information on the problem would help me here.  I avoid using vehicles in the middle of the game while there are choppers about for the obvious reason, but I have had no other problems.  In my current run through I am about to attack Chapoi, I have a convoy of 1 Abrams; 1 T80; 1 BMP ambulance;1 Repair truck and 1 ammo truck.  The only problems I get are when I allow the trucks to advance without first ensuring there are no AT soldiers about, and the damned northron Hind that is buzzing Chapoi itself.

At one point I wanted, desperately, to reach into the video screen and rip out that d**n ap/av mine. Every time i reloaded I would plant one and blow myself up. I have the impression this is a legacy issue, something you liked, and don't want to remove it even though you know it's not that good. The AP stuff is  lethal. On a map of this scale i am garanteed to run into them myself at a later stage.

Originally I had quite a lot of stuff that was meant to keep the player on their toes - like vehicles running out of fuel etc.  Most of that has gone.  My preference on the mines would be to have them lower down the list of actions but I don't think that can be done, as it is they do ensure the player has to be careful with the mouse wheel click.  I have made it so you can't place one of these mines while you are in a vehicle, you do get a disable option and thanks to macguba you also need a specific item in inventory to place one.  If you double click on the map you can place a marker to show where you have placed a mine, but also I like it that the player has to bear this in mind when placing a mine.  I will wait and see what other feed back I get on this before deciding what to do about this.

Cutscene Storylines:

Simply wonderful. Immersive, intense. Some deal of dissapointment on my part that they began to taper off towards end of game. I wish / hope, you will liberally sprinkle them elsewhere.

 I have been giving thought to this.  One problem is in not knowing what the player is going to do.  It is on my list of things to think about.

Had the impression i was suppposed to attack Chapoi first (via storyline). Next game I'll go for the airport instead.

Actually there is nothing you are supposed to do first, I tried to make it so there was no right way and no wrong way to do the mission.  Attacking a base will generate a response, as a small band of fighters it might be better to take a less direct approach, or even to get others to do most of the fighting for you.

I am glad you are going to play it again.  My favourite thing about this mission will never be noticed by people who only play it once, and that is how different the middle part of the mission can be.  Sometimes you have choppers to deal with, sometime they have already been dealt with for you - it can make a big difference to the play.

The game is so overwhelming in detail that no critqiue can do it justice. Only point that simpy must be mentioned is that at no time were the enemy looking for contact lenses. They were aggressive / ferocious. The few that were not were understandably so, for all the right reasons. Loved the re-arming machine gun nests. Loved the random waypoints. Beautiful.

Music to my ears if I can use such a phrase about written text.  You can certainly come again.

Readme:
I believe this is now inconsistent with V1.1, it did not appear to be relevant. I truly hope you did not spawn vehicles. I'm hoping for my game play I can go hunting them 1st, before they attack me.

I didn't think it was out dated - I will check thanks.  I certainly do not spawn vehicles, or anything else for that matter.  My intention is that there is no trickery, it is meant to feel like a real experience.  Everything you need to deal with is already on the map at the start.

Addons:

I don't do them (it does limit my opportunities to do beta testing sometimes).  The only exception I make is General Barron's Editor Upgrade.  Any delay in releasing the mission will be down to my time spend fixing some of the problems.


Milkero let me thank you again for the encouragement your comments have provided.  I loved making this mission (most of the time) and I love playing it, but even better is to hear that others enjoy it as well and also I enjoy seeing how many different ways it is possible to approach the mission.

Thanks again

[Henderson]

Sorry I'm not posting as much Thobson, I'm currently on a Kotor II binge and am trying to beat that.

@GRK
Thanks for the ECP stuff, that will be a real help.  

I fear you will need more than a minute for the download.  It is quite a bit bigger than the original.  I use a higher quality of ogg for the voices in this one.

@Henderson
I am glad you are still talking to me after the fog and all. Really?  It wasn't me.  I am collecting evidence that Malden is haunted.  This is not my first data point.

Did you check out any bodies at Vigny?

The only bodies I saw were the police guy's body, ("Glad it wasn't my uncle. ) and Tatayana's, I was too busy running to check for more, heh.

I am glad you liked that.  It seemed like a good idea but I had doubts when I heard it 'live'

Great, so you found the ammo dump.  My son said he didn't see the ammo crate in the cutscene - I told him he was not supposed to.  I was wondering if others might miss it.

The civis are now quite different.  They don't join you but they do follow you and they will get into the truck if you do and if there is room.  I have never taken my whole squad to get them - I only take #2 (one of the benefits of beta testing).  So with me and one other they all get in.  I need to invetigate what is happening here.  When you say three could not get on board is that 3 loons or number 3 loon?  Did you get a message about the vehicle not being large enough for the civis?  Did your squad all get out and was it them that were having difficulty getting back in or was it the civis that couldn't get in?  Anything you can remember would be of real help to me on this.

I had my squad in the check, and once I got one, the civs started to get in after. But, it seemed 3 of them couldn't fit into the truck for some reason.

I am sorry.  I don't understand this.

I was talking about the forums, hehe, when I went to preview my post, it said I wasn't logged in.

My words are in red.

Ok, now since I'm fully awake and have time to blow, back to the mission.

Last post left me back at base after a checkpoint. This time instead of taking my whole squad I only took number 2, you know, just in case. The ride is uneventful, and we reach the civs. The cut scene starts up, everything goes good again, and this time all the civs get into the truck. J The tide back to base is uneventful, and as I drive up, a cut scene starts? Caught me off guard the first time I played it. I like the whole thing about the civs rebuilding the ruined building and Corporal Ivanov and the other guy, (forgot his name. ) Also, during the cutscene I heard more firing in the backround. I tell my new recruit to halt, and jump back into the truck with two. As I'm driving I hear more explosions? Wonder what they're firing at. The rest of the drive is uneventful and I reach where the civs are at. I like the new cut scene that says that something is going on in La Trinite without being specific.

After the cut scene I wish the men a safe journey and board my truck with #7 and 2. As I'm driving through the country towards Houdan, I drive right past a group of soldiers. They didn't make any hostile moves so I continued on. Once in Houdan I drove up to the house and activated the cutscene. I like the way you're using cut scenes to explain the story, unlike in version 1.00 the player knew everything from the very beginning. I also like recruiting the Russian deserter to your cause, I knew some people still had morals!

I begin the drive back to the lodge, and about 200m out I hear Pavel's voice saying he's ready for my order. He must have a real strong voice. I disembarked my squad and now I'm planning for my next course of action, which I think should be to get a truck that can carry everyone in my squad.

Having fun with the mission Thobson, best beta test mission I've ever played.

[THobson]

Sorry I'm not posting as much Thobson

Absolutely no problem.  When I put 1.00 up I was hit by so much in such a short space of time it took me quite a while to assimilate it.  The current pace is more manageable.

But, it seemed 3 of them couldn't fit into the truck for some reason.

So some of them got in but some didn't, and you did not get a message about the vehicle being too small for them.  Interesting that is a good clue as to what to look for.

when I went to preview my post, it said I wasn't logged in.

Oh I see.  I now do a select all, Ctrl C before going to preview - I lost too many long posts this way in the past.

Also, during the cutscene I heard more firing in the backround…. As I'm driving I hear more explosions?

This is baffling.  Have you had the "We seem to have got them fighting each other" message?  There are only two places where I use environmental sounds and that is if you approach either of the groups of civis before you know about them some environmental shooting will start and a few seconds later the player gets shot.  All other sounds of fighting are real.  Once you know about the civis the triggers that create the sounds are deleted (as is the one that shoots Alexi) so they cannot be firing by accident.

I drive right past a group of soldiers. They didn't make any hostile moves so I continued on.

This is a pain I can do little about.  If you are in a truck the footsoldiers seem to ignore you.  Get out or go near some armour and it is very different.

I also like recruiting the Russian deserter to your cause, I knew some people still had morals!

This has had a desirable effect on future game play.  I want to create an environment where the player needs to keep alert, and remember what he has done.  You certainly need to remember what you have done with 9, otherwise at some point you may see a Russian soldier coming towards you and the moment of hesitation while you consider if he is your guy can prove fatal.  I know.

I hear Pavel's voice saying he's ready for my order. He must have a real strong voice.

Maybe I should make it sound like a radio message

I disembarked my squad and now I'm planning for my next course of action

Just the sort of situation I was wanting to create.

which I think should be to get a truck that can carry everyone in my squad.

I need to check that truck.

Having fun with the mission Thobson, best beta test mission I've ever played.

I am very pleased to hear it.  Thanks again for your comments.

[Henderson]

This is baffling.  Have you had the "We seem to have got them fighting each other" message?  There are only two places where I use environmental sounds and that is if you approach either of the groups of civis before you know about them some environmental shooting will start and a few seconds later the player gets shot.  All other sounds of fighting are real.  Once you know about the civis the triggers that create the sounds are deleted (as is the one that shoots Alexi) so they cannot be firing by accident.

I didn't get the message, and I didn't engage anyone except those three guys, so I don't know what's going on either.

[Mikero]

@THobson
>a walkthru is needed.

totally absolutely understand the need for this. Even as a beta player I *enjoy* reading other's ways of getting into deep doodoo  

I have said that the mission is too overwhelming to give one, I will however do it as a totally separate reply, and probably in sections. I fully understand your need for it.

The following is where i hope to be helpful: It is based on what i've read in this forum:

FOG:

For me, this game/mission was like sipping good wine, you dont gulp and you dont rush. As far as I was concerned I was happy to have a cup of tea and ruminate on what the HELL i could do next. Like others I 'suspected' the ai could see thru fog/rain. Am happy to report to them, and you, this is not the case (unlike smoke grenades/broken bushes).

IF you crawl 5 meters, not 6, and look, you will just make out the silouhette target, just as the ai is doing to you. If you let your squad ping at an m2 nest, why be surprised. I've been on plenty of missions in reverse, and I shoot back! The answer for me was to crawl, shoot, crawl, the ENTIRE length of the runway.

I was content to do this because I was totally immersed in the play at hand. This was just one interlude, of a huge mission and needed a different play style. Fine by me. I did not need to rush and get it over with. I had after all just been through hell elsewhere and was more than pleased that this, while slow, was going to be a peaceful interlude. I have NO problem with your use of fog/rain, It immersed be in the belief that oh shit, another thing going wrong. It was real, realistic, not a turkey shoot. Even better, it varied. There is a discrepency in the load game where fog may or may not be present.

Vigny:

The only mission that has ever used this start is chapter 3 of PMC fury. In it's case it was meant to be, and was, hilarious. Constantly falling over, etc.

Your start was not hilarious and was not meant to be. Unlike others, I had no trouble, no frustration, at climbing that goddamn hill. I *knew* what I was in for, and I suspect the 'complaints' if they were complaints, were simply surprise at how much you meant buisiness, that this IS the tuffest mother of a hill in the game and overlooked by everyone. It would not trouble me whether you kept the original, or the current, it would trouble me greatly if you made it easy. Too boring for some players? Tough. You lead up to this entrance just right, nuclear war, hell-in-basket, atomic rain probably, and sheer utter gloom to start. You look up, when and after you can orient, and think, you gotta be kidding. Jesus!

Damaged Jeeps/Fuel.

Again, I found it more realistic that they DID run out of fuel and WERE damaged. It's chaos, this is (probably) the last standing armies. They are in the throes of losing the last of their high value equipment, it's very soon going to be clubs folks, this is all that's left, AND it's getting ruined.

Fate of soldiers outro:

don't agree. You've already mentioned it in the outro, what WILL happen to them? Stay tuned.

Disarmed soldiers:

Have to mention, disarmed soldiers rather than find-the-last-bloody-loon = clever as hell.

You might have an 'undocumented feature' here. I couldn't tell if my loons were reporting these unarmed soldiers or real ones from the north. Perhaps both. 2nd niggle same issue. Vehicles my ppl got in were red, they should have turned green. Had a hard time targetting the 'real' red ones.

savegame bug:
dunno what that is. My problem was if I restarted and resumed ofp, it 'began' at an earlier save, I had to then use load or retry to get back to where i was. Hardly a biggie. The bug others mention would be awful.

Fighting each other:

Am still at a loss what that actually meant. Couldn't determine if it was north fighting north (that's what I currently think). Trigger ocurred around about houdan. Same subject, not sure if it's clever or confusing, that the north / south tanks battle it out at chapoi. You mention only four or so, it *seemed* like many more were involved. Took awhile for it to sink in that the buggers weren't after me, I was so relieved, I think you should leave it as is <griN>

Trinite:

Unlike other reports I had no trouble with what was going on here, DEAR GOD PLEASE DONT LET THAT FOG LIFT. I understood implicitly that I would be presented with 2 million angry spetz gunning for me just metres away.

In fact, this was the best lesson learned for my game play. I had to change my thinking and turn geurilla (sp). Not Resistance, Gorilla (sp).  The rest of the game was hit, and run away as far as runny run run could take me. If I could run to other side of island, it wasn't far enough, but my tactic was very successful. My squad stayed alive. After two towns or so, I understood I was in deep doodoo if I hung around. No, trouble, just bloody exciting. The ai played fair, it didn't hunt me to extinction.

Civils:

you mention 3 civil scenes. How I wish you'd put one back.

1st civils. This is identical as reported by others. In my case i drove entire squad. Unless I got out (and it wasn't necessary to trigger cutsene, so easily fix that by trigger IN hut), the civils wouldn't get in. I get out, i order in, and everyone tries to, 3 fail.

I try to get them in car, and messages to say we'll walk. Various scenarios follow but the basics begin with overflowing truck causing all later messages to be awol. Suggestion: Let the truck run out of fuel.

Ammo stash in haystack:

With a kozlice as main armament, I'm gonna search high and wide. Keep it hidden. Had the suspicion, that I could have missed the radio, hello are you there stuff. It triggered well away from _the_ radio, which I had just passed.

ECP and Lag:

It might simply be a question of turning super ai off. It *might* not be required, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but it *would* appreciably chew up cpu cycles because celerons do not have this option as an option.

St Louis? / Minefield:

what was that about? I think enemy kept wandering into it (as did I), did it have other significance i missed? It's fine as is, I ask a curious question only.

Females and Chapoi die:

Is this intentional? Is there any way to prevent it? I sure tried. Dont answer if its a secret. If not, there was a stone tower I could not climb that would have given me a bead on the bugger. Same subject, something nasty about that church, one blackop hidden IN buliding wall, pinged me every time. Other black ops protecting big bad general could see straight thru most of it's walls and were murderous. I hope you can patch that up.

Dead Policeman:

Huh? What where? I did no such thing. Did I?


>what is your OFP benchmark.

Give me a clue. Where do i find it?

[macguba]

>what is your OFP benchmark.

Give me a clue. Where do i find it?

Start - Prgrammes - Codemasters - OFP - Flashpoint preferences.  

[THobson]

@Henderson

I didn't get the message, and I didn't engage anyone except those three guys, so I don't know what's going on either.

Utterly weird.  If there is shooting someone is getting killed and if someone gets killed by the other side you get the message.  I was thinking of putting in some executions - but I haven't done that yet!!


@mikero


FOG:

Your comments represent exactly the effect I was trying to create.  Thank you

Like others I 'suspected' the ai could see thru fog/rain. Am happy to report to them, and you, this is not the case (unlike smoke grenades/broken bushes).

Interesting.  Thanks.

The answer for me was to crawl, shoot, crawl, the ENTIRE length of the runway.

Lol I spend a lot of my time in the same position, eyeball to eyeball with the grass.

There is a discrepency in the load game where fog may or may not be present.

That is another thing I am not sure I can do something about.  I presume after restoring the game the weather returns to something like it should be after a minute or so.  If not I will need to have another look at the weather code.

Vigny:

Your comments on the hill - great thanks.  I have macguba to thank for pointing me to the specific landing point.

 

Fate of soldiers outro:

don't agree. You've already mentioned it in the outro, what WILL happen to them? Stay tuned.

 I have a dilemma.  I wanted an outro that showed a sort of epilogue.  But I like the ending the way it currently is and feel that something after the de-briefing would take away from what has gone before.  What I have in mind is an unpleasant end for the surviving soldiers delivered by Mariana (Alexi's mother)

Disarmed soldiers:

Have to mention, disarmed soldiers rather than find-the-last-bloody-loon = clever as hell.

A happy force of necessity.  In version 1.00 there was occasionally some difficulty in finding the last loon - even though I do have some scripts that make them head for the centre of their base.

You might have an 'undocumented feature' here. I couldn't tell if my loons were reporting these unarmed soldiers or real ones from the north

I am afraid your guys will report the surrendered loons in the same way they will report the active ones.  This is OFP and I cannot change it.

2nd niggle same issue. Vehicles my ppl got in were red, they should have turned green. Had a hard time targetting the 'real' red ones.

OFP again I am afraid. I cannot fix this

savegame bug:
dunno what that is.

Be happy.

Fighting each other:

Am still at a loss what that actually meant. Couldn't determine if it was north fighting north (that's what I currently think)

You get this message the first time one of the loons is killed by the other side.  Subsequently all hell breaks loose and major warfare begins between north and south.

.

Trigger ocurred around about houdan.

I don't suppose you can recall what you might have done to cause this.  It is several months since I had war break out spontaneously between the two sides but I am still very sensitive to it happening.  It would ruin the mission.

Same subject, not sure if it's clever or confusing, that the north / south tanks battle it out at chapoi.

This is one of the locations where a battle will take place after the truce between the two sides is broken.

You mention only four or so, it *seemed* like many more were

Four armoured vehicles target Chapoi, but there are others on guard. So if they are not otherwise engaged they may also have joined in.  Stamenov also has some armour based around Chapoi, they will obviously have been fighting back.

In fact, this was the best lesson learned for my game play. I had to change my thinking and turn geurilla (sp). Not Resistance, Gorilla (sp).  The rest of the game was hit, and run away as far as runny run run could take me. If I could run to other side of island, it wasn't far enough, but my tactic was very successful. My squad stayed alive. After two towns or so, I understood I was in deep doodoo if I hung around. No, trouble, just bloody exciting. The ai played fair, it didn't hunt me to extinction.

Lol, wonderful thanks.

Civils:

you mention 3 civil scenes. How I wish you'd put one back.

The three ‘scenes' in v1.00 were a bit crap to say the least.  

1st civils. This is identical as reported by others. In my case i drove entire squad. Unless I got out (and it wasn't necessary to trigger cutsene, so easily fix that by trigger IN hut), the civils wouldn't get in. I get out, i order in, and everyone tries to, 3 fail.

I try to get them in car, and messages to say we'll walk. Various scenarios follow but the basics begin with overflowing truck causing all later messages to be awol. Suggestion: Let the truck run out of fuel.

I have been thinking about the cause of this.  I move some GameLogics into the vehicle that Alexi boards and if I can get enough in I know there is room for the civis.  What seems to be happening is that the GLs are staying in the vehicle even after Itell them to get out and so are taking up space.  That would fit the symptoms perfectly, the truck holds 12.  You start with a squad of 5, I put 5 GLs in then 5 loons try to get in and 3 won't fit.  It all adds up.  I unassign the GLs from the vehicle and then setpos them elsewhere so I don't know what I am missing.  I have only just thought of this as the reason so I will need to check the code when I get home.  Your idea of having the truck run out of fuel is a neat one, fully in keeping with making life difficult for the player in a realistic way.  I will look at that if I have no joy with the GL problem.

Ammo stash in haystack:

With a kozlice as main armament, I'm gonna search high and wide. Keep it hidden.

I do show you the hiding place in the cutscene.  "We do have some weapons, but not a lot I'm afraid"

Had the suspicion, that I could have missed the radio, hello are you there stuff. It triggered well away from _the_ radio, which I had just passed.

As you realise this is an important potential bottleneck in the flow of the story.  In v1.00 the radio was next to the clearly visible ammo crate and so was very had to miss.  In v1.10 it is behind Irena - you can see it and a medicine box behind her in the cutscene.  If you don't activate the radio yourself then I have one of your team activate it for you if you get too far from the lodge.  Is that what happened for you?  Were you too far from the lodge when it happened for it to feel realistic?

ECP and Lag:

It might simply be a question of turning super ai off. It *might* not be required, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but it *would* appreciably chew up cpu cycles because celerons do not have this option as an option.

I don't use ECP.  What is the super AI?

St Louis? / Minefield:

what was that about? I think enemy kept wandering into it (as did I), did it have other significance i missed? It's fine as is, I ask a curious question only.

Quote from Reply #367:

Saint Marie is mined because:
- Stamenov wanted to make sure there was no possibility of civilians living close to his base.
- He wanted to prevent his soldiers from going there for R&R
- He wanted to prevent it from being used as a base by any enemy, but did not wish to station and soldiers there (his forces are mostly at the front or protecting his base)
- He has certain items that he wishes to keep safe locked away in the basement of one of the buildings there - sufficiently close to his base that they are accessible
- He had a childhood romance but lost her to a rival.  They married and are living in Saint Marie (or at least they were living in one of the houses when Stamenov had his soldiers mine the place.  Whether they have been blown up or simply starved to death no one knows)

Take your pick.

I made all this up at the time at the time of writing that reply. I really just wanted the exercise of making my own minefield.

Females and Chapoi die:

Is this intentional?

Yes

Is there any way to prevent it?

No

I sure tried.

You gentleman

If not, there was a stone tower I could not climb that would have given me a bead on the bugger

I have been all over Chapoi with a sniper rifle trying to see if I could get my cross hairs on him.  If there is anywhere I have not found it.  I would have moved him if I had.

Same subject, something nasty about that church, one blackop hidden IN buliding wall, pinged me every time. Other black ops protecting big bad general could see straight thru most of it's walls and were murderous. I hope you can patch that up.

I wonder if they can see through the walls because the building has been destroyed.  I will look at it.

Dead Policeman:

Huh? What where? I did no such thing. Did I?

I think that is Stamenov.  Even though he is actually a west solder looking like a civilian policeman OFP seem to report his death as a civilian policeman.  The only other policemen in the game is the body in Vigny and the dead guy in the police vehicle in St Marie.

>what is your OFP benchmark.

Give me a clue. Where do i find it?

Go to your game folder and instead of running the OperationFlashpoint.exe or whatever it is called, run the OperationFlashpoint Preferences.exe. This will display your benchmark.

EDIT:  I see macguba beat me to it.

Mikero.  Again.  Thank you so much for the comments and the pointers to improving the mission.

Are you sure you only play mission and don't make them?

[Mikero]

@THobson
>I assume the fog re-appears after awhile

very quickly, if not sooner.

>an unpleasant end...

how droll. Let it be. You will leave a bad taste in the mouth. You have let other ppl's imagination run wild with what you've already said in that outro, why do the thinking for them? But, I can point you no better than pilot's  outro of released prisoners in red tide. Subtle, understated. original and totally dissapointing to rambos. On the other hand, you have of course done such an amazing opus, that I'd probably be speechless with what you did come up with, so go with your gut. My opinion of how this game should *play* is worthless. That's not false modesty, I have no useful opinion on what this mission should and shouldn't 'be'. It's too unique for anyone but the author to craft.

> I have MacGuba to thank

so do we all, but I'm going round to his house with an axe for mission impossible.

> spontaneous war breakout

cannot tell you, the mission was too overwhelming to be certain of any trigger happpening anywhere, it all just flowed. There was no bug, as such. Please be aware, the game is overwhelming in intensity, it is difficult as a player to be 'certain' of what happens next/when/why. That is hardly a criticism. There's no time for introspection, should i play that differently?, your into my god, what now, the 'next' is more interesting that what just happened. You can't, well I can't, 'digest' everything that happened.

>The radio

no wasn't silly distance I was in house, and it didn't seem 'right' that it triggered where I was. A spatial issue. Left me with bloody hell, i'm gonna have to scour every inch of this turf looking for more goodies.

>in cutscene

as they should be, and only where they should be. Fine by me. Very fine indeed.

>what is super ai

it's one of the options in the difficulty panel, only present on cpus better than 1Gig4? or more. I do know it is cpu intensive (elsewise why 1gig4), I 'think' it's only effect is to make ai deadly accurate, but not smarter. This is afaik. Point being you are hunting for all cpu intensive scripts, and this, is part of the family so to speak. On some missions, super ai actually dumbs the squad down, it's so busy crunching, they, aint doin nothin. My reference to ECP was only in this context, not, the fact that you dont use it.

>cpu benchmark

5338. Is that good, bad, or indifferent?

[macguba]

@mikero - 5338 is good.    The maximum with top quality kit is probably a little under 7000.    My old comp (PII) was about 750, which was just adequate and no more to play Resistance.

@THobson - not a proper test yet, but some bits and pieces.


readme

Add the date.   At the start give a short description of the mission.   All those marvellous designer's notes need some context.      Change the other requirements to this:

Other requirements:  Do NOT adjust Video Options: Terrain Detail during the mission.    The mission will set it to Normal, which is necessary to prevent bad things from happening.
 

Overview

The old pic was a little too short:  now it is a little too tall.    Start the text with "Renegade US and ..."    Add your name.


Intro

In the first line of text the tense is wrong - Evil came to Malden, since it was in the past.  The original revolt has now finished, it is not in the present.

Have line spaces between the lines of text.   The new smaller text is good.

Blackout at start still not perfect.

Why and how did Malden survive the nuclear exchange?

Baddies' faces (I know they haven't changed) good.

When the three loons surrender their weapons appear on the ground.   When they die the weapons reappear on their backs and fall to the ground again.

Woman about to be raped bit ended too soon - he had just got out his rifle when the shot cut away.

The scene on the outlying island is better but still not quite right.   The fire smoke came right out of mum's mouth.  Fires are usually bad in cutscenes because you cannot predict the wind direction.   Who are these men anyway?  Why don't they go to get my uncle?   We have nice shots and speech of your sister and mum but none of you, the main character.    Have some cardboard boxes lying around, and perhaps the pistol if you can be bothered.



Briefing

Excellent speech!  And I'm delighted to see new start location.

Plan - don't use "you".   This whole thing should be in the first person, or a very vague third if that doesn't work.  In background change to "... an overzelous, frightened or drunk US naval captain shot down what turned out to be a civilian Russian airliner with the children of several Politburo members on board...."

Notes - don't use "certainly" twice.

Gear - add something about how you wish you had more ammo.


The mission[/u]


Start & Vigny

Start a few feet away from the boat, to avoid the Get in actions.   You don't want to draw the player's attention to the boat - you just want it there for the sake of completeness.   Which reminds me, there is a missing dash - somewhere in the briefing.   Boat damage and fuel spot on.

Savegame at the the top of the hill, not sure if it was scripted or me by accident.

Only two soldiers?  What happened to the third?  And both US?  We should have one of each, surely, then the player can choose M16 or AK.

Shot the girl for the mission failed.  Say your mother died of grief and hunger, and your sister of pneumonia, but somehow you survived and returned to the main island to choose which evil group to join ...

Don't put the civvy body so near the soldiers.   Why did the soldiers just stand there instead of going over to examine the girl's body and then see how she had escaped?    Got sound files over bodies: collected ammo and binocs.

__________________________________

*pause to read your original new version post, which I have not yet studied.*

Make the version 1.1 bit HUGE so that we can find it easily when running through the thread.    It's important in a long thread like this to have waymarkers.

Things being different in the mission editor and the .pbo is a real bore, its happened to me.  Remember, sod's law applies - it is the .pbo which is "right".

Briefing pic of uncle nic is good.

Strengthened group at vigny eh?  Well then I won't hang around.

Tanya's rush is better now.

But overall it looks like you have done a LOT of good stuff.  

I am playing without ECP, which is my usual way.  Vet mode obviously.

Won't read the stories yet, I like to play first.

*back to the mission*
____________________________________


I have a feeling the squad arrives too soon:  I barely had time to look around and rearm before they arrived, and in fact I was caught with a poor savegame position.  Managed to run away behind the church, but thought, "I'm buggered if I'm going to walk" so I went back into the village and dropped them, using one beta testing cheat savegame on the way.   Left in the jeep with M16 and LAW.

Don't start with 10 savegames:  its a horrible number, both to calculate with and to look at and I suspect its a bit mean as well.  12 is better.   You can legitimately use 3 around Vigny alone.


La Pessagne

Ran over a soldier in the road, turned left and parked up behind a bush.  Returned to town to drop a two man patrol and a sneaky loon under the net.  Pleased to find a field hospital as I had been slightly hurt up at Vigny somehow.      The tents and flag look good.   There should be something under the net, it should have a purpose other than sneaky loon hiding.   Bodies behind tents should be piled up, not lined up.   Lines are for bodies in front of walls.


Lodge

The drive was uneventful.   Light is good, is the mission a little later now?   If so its better, you see the dawn a lot whereas before it was just dark.     Stopped at the old signpost location with the short road but nothing there now, correct I think:  not worth the lag.    Drove all the way up and got the cutscene.   Didn't try anything fancy, I assume you have tested all combinations.

Much better cutscene.   The titletext grates after the coloured text earlier, do it all coloured.    Big tip - use stringtable.csv, deeply worth it.    Liked the characters appearing, however they should be setpossed in to join you in a little group and we should have an overhead shot of the group.   It's stupid them talking to you from inside the building.    Tatyana sequence was good but make the opening shot a static one of the dead soldiers' room; then a static shot of the bedroom and then the zoom into the body.    Perhaps even start it with a static shot of the boat.    The zoom out from the bed doesn't work, a shot like that has to start on a small object.   They are not road convoys, they are just convoys.  Convoys generally use roads and you have mentioned heavy traffic on the roads.   Liked the joining sequence at the end.

Green tick for the first objective btw and a whole bunch of new objectives and map markers.  (Which reminds me, there should be a link to La Trinite from the Background, I think it is.  Almost always link from Briefing to map, even if the marker is invisible:  its just annoying if you want to find the town and can't.)     Don't say north of these villages, make it clear that these villages are controlled by Andropov.  Similarly south.     One of the flags is a bit squashed.

The whole Lodge location is now excellent, well done.   I presume the medical box by the radio works.   Got the radio message while I was running around looking for the graves.   Three graves is plenty, and make them rougher - these people are not used to doing their own burials.   The location may not be susceptible to improvement, but if it's possible bury people with their heads higher than their feet.      The other minor gripes are that the motorbike should not block the woodpile, and the woodpile should not block the window.  Try putting it inside.    The AI has no hope at all of driving off in the yellow car, make it more accessible.   Love the weapons in the haystack but give everybody a full ammo load if they have a weapon:  if the player wants to change the last shellbox for a grenade (or vice versa) he can.    

My personal view is that titletexts are for cutscenes and the like.   Once a loon is in your group (or even if he is not) and speaks during gameplay I prefer to see the text come up as sideChat.

No lag problems so far, although you can feel the mission is heavy.

I took the hunting rifle and gave the M16 to 5.   We jumped into the lorry.


Civvies

We arrived at the civvies and the objective changed from blue to green at some point.    Make more of the fact that where they are is dangerous (near the main road, where they are sure to be found) whereas the lodge is safe.  At present there is no strong reason for them to move.

Arrived in the lorry and got the cutscene.   There are four civvies and the soldier, too many for the car.   Use of the reserved variable words "lead" and "follow" is slightly confusing - I was expecting them to join my group.    Not sure what to do.  Got back into the lorry and they said they would get in, but they haven't yet.   It's feeling like its going wonky.   I suspect you have been too cute with this bit.   Yep, there is a problem.  Everytime I got into the truck I got the "wait while we get in" and two of them would get in but the others could not.  I got my loons out and then they did get in, but my loons couldn't.   In the end I put my loons in the car and set off for the lodge.    The capacity of the lorry is not a problem (12 IIRC) so I'm not sure what was going on.

Aside: savegames.   I don't know what 's coming up but seems to me that you are entitled to a savegame on
- arrival at Vigny
- after the cutscene
- leaving Vigny
- possibly leaving La Pessagne
- approaching the lodge (long drive, dunno what will happen there)
- leaving the lodge
- leaving the civvies

so unless there are a lot more coming up 10 is going to be wholly inadequate.

Anyway, arrived back at the lodge.  Cutscene started a little early, I hadn't even spotted that we were nearly there.    Cutscene needs work as you know.   It's not at first clear who is in it.   Then the civvies just vanished.    Green tick and new objective, make it "Rescue the second group of civvies" just to change the wording from the first one.   New man joined my group.

Set off alone  in the jeep to get the other lot and had the cutscene.  Nice voice acting from the girl.    Everybody ran off except my joiner:  we set off in the jeep but broke down on the ridge.   Saw the medic but not the civvies he was supposed to be shepherding.   Returned to the lodge to see it repaired (say "shelter" in the building, not "hide":  in this weather a roof and four walls - the other buildings providing one or other but not both - is even more important than concealement.)

No sign of anybody turning up here.   It's possible they got here first but unlikely given that I passed the medic.  Will wait a little.   Oh, and give your joiners/soldiers slightly different weapon loadouts.   An extra grenade here, a mag less there, a pair of binocs or a handgun for one of them.    Ah, here they are.   8 joined, the civvies went into the chimney except one didn't quite make it - see pic.   Extra savegame.    One extra savegame after all this time seems a bit pointless.   Need at least three to make it worth the effort of adding them, or perhaps add one for each objective completed.  Actually that's a nice little reward for doing what the mission designer wants.    

3 green ticks and a full squad.    Be a bit more expansive on the new Houdan objective, either another page link or if that seems too much a simple "... for the missing women." will do.    I'm not sure I really want to though.     Lots of talk about activity at La Trinite.  (Actually we could do with another oblique mention somewhere perhaps.  I'm spoiled because I know what's there.)

Well I'm a-gonna go to Houdan anyway.

[macguba]

Time for a new post.

Houdan expedition

With all the comings and goings I notice my loons are not in good shape.   Stick an "aware" in at the end there, in case the player forgets.

We try to get into the wagon but 6 won't mount.   This lorry is definitely jinxed.  Wierd.   We'll have to walk, I could probably cobble together enough cars but they are too crap across country to make it worth it.   It is 8am in the game.

Decided to pop into Arudy in the hope of some action and a nice juicy truck.   Sneaked in from the NE because I got slightly lost.   Dropped a sentry and then was shot myself by a sniper on the opposite hillside, a good 200m beyond where I could see.    The AI shooting you through the fog is something you can live with to an extent - its just an annoying little "feature" in the game - but you are placing snipers to take advantage of it which isn't fun.   It's too good a mission to warrant stuff like that sniper, even without the fog problem.

Anyway, its getting late so I'm going to read the rest of the thread now.

__________________________

Comments arising from the thread so far

Don't worry too much about your voice acting.   You are not all crap:  it's all clear and of perfectly acceptable quality, which puts it straight into the top quartile of OFP user mission voices.  Better is better of course, but its a reflection on the quality of the mission as a whole that people are noticing it.

I agree with Fragorl that the Intro and Tatyana sequence are much slicker.    

My ECP script from Un-Impossible just turns off most of the ECP variables I could find in the master ECP script.    I don't really understand it either.   Borrow it by all means.   But in the end of the day, ECP is not your problem.    Either get it and spend a little time with it so you can understand how your mission relates to it, or just say in the readme "this may not work with ECP."    The new version of ECP was going to be totally different, but I and some others raised this point very seriously with the team and I think they took our concerns on board.    Consequently, unless you have new information, it is not reasonable to assume that they current system for switching effects off will not work in the future.

Cross with myself for not taking kit in the jeep from Vigny.  What was I thinking?!

Strange firing at Vigny seems more than likely to me.   AI have lots of blue on blues, not necessarily resulting in casualties.    They are common enough to make a material difference to the difficulty level of Un-Impossible.    

Got sound files over bodies at Vigny.  

No trouble finding the ammo in the haystack.  Thought it was reasonably obvious since it was shown the in cutscene and even if you missed the spot the voice said "we have weapons" so they have to be somewhere.

Liked the "officers uniform" bit, good thinking there.

I agree that the pace of text in the Intro is probably a little fast, especially for non-native English speakers.      Appreciate you only have the length of the music, but you use the second line appearing after the first trick quite a lot, possibly even too much:  putting up all the text at once makes it easier to understand, even if it isn't quite as sexy.

At the first civvy location there were no error messages or radio calls.   They just didn't get in:  stood there in a clump at the back.   It felt like there were gamelogics in the seats.   I had my whole squad with me.

Mission making is indeed a bit like cooking.    I've never managed to put that common thought into such a good analogy.

Haven't got to the new mines yet so can't comment on their effectiveness.   The top of the Action list thing is a bummer.   I deliberately put an Action in Un-Impossible partly to annoy the player, but that's a special case and it was only a morphine script.   I really do wish you could fix the order or something.

To reiterate:  blue on blues are dirt common.  That is certainly the firing people are hearing.  I haven't heard any.  I first learnt about blue on blues when playing CWC in about mission 8 I suppose.   I was shot clean through the head in broad daylight by a loon on my side from a distance of 30m.    And no I wasn't a renegade, in those days I was much to innocent to shoot my own men for fun.

Mikero is half right:  often when you are shot through fog it is from that zone where you could have seen if you looked hard enough.   However I have been shot several times in this mission from several hundred metres away - three or four times the distance you can see.

The new start position is much better than the old one.  It is closer, and because of the extra steepness you don't mind the lack of a long weapon and 4x so much because they make less difference - whatever happens, you are going very slowly.    When I first discovered this spot, a long time ago, I expected to find it in missions all the time but as mikero says it is very rare.

I've tried to let my eyes gloss over bits in the thread referring to things I haven't seen yet.  So I don't know what happens at Houdan, except that something does.

mikero didn't have to trek to the third lot of civvies, don't listen to him!

A walkthrough is IMHO a good idea for every decent mission.   You never know where or how people are going to get stuck.   You don't need it to complete the mission, it's perfectly obvious what you are supposed to do and you have already done the right thing of providing backup:  for instance all of your squad have some kind of weapon even if you don't bring stuff.

Ah-ha, so you have put GLs in the lorry!   Well they're not getting out again.   deleteVehicle the bastards.  

Radio at the lodge is easy to spot - I got the action almost as soon as I entered the building.   Distance from the buildings for automatic radio is about right - any further would be weird and only I would be looking for the graves.

SuperAI is an option that appears somewhere in the game.  It simply turns up the skill of the enemy (all units) to 1.    It shouldn't have an impact on lag.   It has nothing to do with ECP.

Whew.   As you've probably guessed I was supposed to be cleaning the house this evening.

Overall, what can I say.   So far, it is much, MUCH better.    How it is now is how you thought it was first time around, if that makes sense.    Much slicker, more professional:  a real feel of quality around the place.    Where the quality feel is absent there is a feeling of work in progress instead, which is fine.    

Excellent.   Good work.   Well done.  :thumbsup:

That's it for now.  


PS - given the new background, consider changing the title of the mission.

[Mikero]

Walthru, part one of many.
Intro:

Stunned, speechless.

Plan:

Huh? So Easy? So straightforward?

Notes:

Stunned, Readable.

Gear/Group voiceover:

Stunned, speechless, what 'game' am I playing? Diction clear, distinct, nothing mumbled.

Hint: Use radio save if you want. Ok, right now. one gone 9 to go.

Disoriented, sound of boat, look up, dear jesus, you want me to do what? Looks at briefing again. I like that boat sound, it told the truth about where I was, why I was.

Climb hill, feel like a kid with my dad's pistol. If anything's in that valley ahead, I AM going to wet myself. Rain? glorious rain. I want to look up in the sky and let it poor over me, this is tuff, man this climb is one hell of a mother. Fenceline. easy. Find the gate, what gate. where's the gate, jesus.

I get thru, I'm deeply scared, thinks, nothing can be behind me, feel safer. Can't see village, Hill, get as high as you can mikero. village slihouette. What's this, destroyed buildings, oh god, trouble, this feels authentic. Beginning to sh*t bricks. Does ofp have ghosts? looks plain evil. Feeling awful now. If it were in the engine, my pistol would be rattling, I am.

Smoke. Fire? let's look. Crawl mikero, crawl. This is evil here.

Soldiers? Hmm, friend or foe? Recalls intro, all nationalatoes, all on the rampage, they have to be baddies. Hope I'm right. Will I fire? are there others? crawled too far I want to get on with mission, head shots or you're dead. god there's 3 I nearly missed him. He *definitely* wasn't there 1st time I played this.

Put out fire, rule 101, put out fire.

collect ammo?, store in jeep?. No way, there has to be more nasties.

cutscene:

Speechless: not encountered this style before, is the rest of the game like this? Bet it will be, this is too polished to be a one off.

pay close attention mikero, you MUST listen to what's being said. Write it down, damn, forgot half of it, too stunned, reload, restart cutscene, I *know* I've missed something vital: Soldiers, mountain.

Too scared to look at map, I'll miss a patrol coming at me, feel sure of that. (Turns out I'm wrong). Two soldiers i guess. Risk a grenade (am lousy most of the time with these). Got the 'feel' right now. Just a few sporadic foragers as the intro said. Turns out I'm wrong again.

what to do? flee now? I'd be a sitting duck, wait them out and snipe mikero. Turns out to be a bad choice, restart, flee. Message triggers plural as I drive near bodies. Restart, try again and just take the patrol OUT, Vigny needs to be investigated, not fled from. Use another savegame.

Count the enemy as you shoot them mikero, keep count, whatever you do. Begin to notice enemy is random positioned on any restart. Oh god. This is tuff.

Finish of last of them, start scouring Vigny, collecting goodies, and noticing message triggers (apart from woman) are inconsistent, they appear to be things i should have triggered before heading for campfire. Not my fault. Fire was directly in front of me, I am certian to hit that 1st, voice triggers' aferwards, not good.

Now, what was that cutscene, read map, nearly miss mountain lodge because it's so far from where i'm looking.

Time for jeep, it isn't there to look pretty, author wants me to use it, ok. It is a long way after all.

Eek, sound of chopper, very very far away, collect every damn piece of hardware you can mikero. Jeep is mule.

Sh*t, Passagne's occupied. Notice no reaction if I drive over them, not very responsive if i get out and shoot. Too easy, but nasty bugger hidden in nets. Collect a bit more, another patrol, damn, I get it, hang round too long and it's good-night, thank you for playing. Ooh this town has mash tent. Store for future reference.

Not happy with myself, driving, driving, checking map, driving, driving. trying to 'figure' out' the mission style, it's changing before i can adjust. Damn what the hell? m2 jeep, 2 m2 jeeps, christ a platoon, eject. Fast

Drives back to Pessagne, looks for satchels/mines in tent area, nothing. Notices civlilian dead. notices their behind tents, out of sight.

tries again, badly disoriented and worried about those jeeps, lose direction several times. Relying on memory of island, rather than map, jeeps are benign, they think I'm one of theirs. I'd only get one if i hit them. i need help, drive mikero, drive away fast.

Very disoreinted eventually find mountain closer to camp, know *exactly* where I am, and am hopelessly lost at same time. Mist everywhere, needle in haystack stuff. I know every bush on this Island, the author is an bad man. Turn on scuba skills mikero, trust your compass, not your eyes. Fall into campsite, relief, cup of tea time.

Cutscene: Distinct, clear. Undramatic, understated. No tear jerking sillyness, no emotional claptrap. Author left my imagination intact.

Restart: missed the info content of the cutscene, this author is using audio AND text AND video to feed me info I'm on overload. Replay. Watch the barn old son, watch the barn. Spot the radio,,,,,

savegame, 7 left.

POT of tea time.

[Fragorl]

Before I forget that I snapped it:

This error message came up a short while after I killed Andropov. It doesn't look like anyone else has reported it, so here it is: