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Author Topic: (Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies  (Read 218963 times)

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Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1230 on: 14 Aug 2005, 14:39:20 »
Hi LillWille

Generally the confusion comes from the way the ofp engine reacts to a RESUMEd game. It will always, first load, the game it saved when you aborted, if, you aborted. The way round this, is simply and immediately escape and click load, or retry, depending on whether you want to go back to the game YOU (not ofp) saved, or from the retry point that Thobson provided.

>Could leaving v1.21 in the game effect v1.23?

No. the two missions are saved in distinctly separate folders.

If lag is kicking in for 'no apparent reason' you have something like Norton Anti Virus running in the background. However, on this mission, and particularly version 1.23, if you get anywhere near tanks you're likely to wobble a lot.
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Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1231 on: 14 Aug 2005, 17:22:53 »
I'll put something in the readme file about the way OFP saves its games.

Lag: I will provide an option in the next version that will allow the player to turn off certain environmental 'stuff' to help with this.  But I can't do anything about concentrations of tanks I'm afraid.

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1232 on: 15 Aug 2005, 01:02:05 »
@Thobson
>I'll put something in the readme

what makes this buisiness interesting is that very few people would ever have encountered it before 'armies.

People dont ordinarily quit a mission to continue the next day, and the day after that!

Although the solution is simple, and quite logical, it's more the surprise at getting this 'bug' that is confusing everyone and making people, understandably, think it's your mission causing it. In a roundabout way, it is, only your mission causing it :)
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Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1233 on: 15 Aug 2005, 08:08:59 »
 :)
I really could do without some of these though.  Especially when people in other sites claiming to be experts pronounce that there is no problem.

To be pedantic: to say that my mission is causing the problem is like saying a searchlight is causing there to be a bomber in the sky. ;)

lilwillie_WI

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1234 on: 16 Aug 2005, 15:41:39 »
Hi LillWille

Generally the confusion comes from the way the ofp engine reacts to a RESUMEd game. It will always, first load, the game it saved when you aborted, if, you aborted. The way round this, is simply and immediately escape and click load, or retry, depending on whether you want to go back to the game YOU (not ofp) saved, or from the retry point that Thobson provided.


If lag is kicking in for 'no apparent reason' you have something like Norton Anti Virus running in the background. However, on this mission, and particularly version 1.23, if you get anywhere near tanks you're likely to wobble a lot.


Adressing both. I restarted a v1.23 mission again, and this time when I would go back I could follow your steps you provided above and resume play. This is new to me, in the fact that I never experienced this at all with v1.21. Anytime I would play v1.21 it always took me to the last save point or abort point I played. Never reverting to a previous spot. That is or was what concerned me. But that problem is resovled now that I was "re-educated" ;D

lag, better, but better with a throgough PC cleaning and shut down of stuff. But playing 1.21 I can see a much easier gameplay with zero lag. What am I not learning or missing here?

Not at all saying anything is wrong with the mission, just what i have personally experienced. I am happy to report that I thought the little map for the husband in Larche was cool as hell. A great little piece put in. I have noticed that the fog is very heavy in this version and my sight line is greatly diminished. Which should make me more cautious but has a actually got me running full tilt boogie with not a care in the world. I can't see whats ahead, so it shouldn't hurt me ;D

At this moment, stuck in La Triniti.(my full tilt boogie got me fubared) I was mining and AP/AVing the entire town when north showed up and set off my early warning AV mine. Then the south got excited. I could not evac in time. Stuck in a burnt out house with a Abrams blocking the door. My team has the area surrounded and calling in enemy movement and actions.

I witnessed a north squad decimated by a row of AP's. Which caused more to come in, and a AV mine was set off by a BMP, throwing the rest of the squad across town. The south opened up with a barrage from a vulcan, which scared the crap out of me since rounds where going right over my head. The Abrams has let loose 4 rounds, my ears are ringing. He is sitting at such a perfect ambush site anyone coming from the north is screwed. Hope someone backs off soon, I am getting tone deaf ;D

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1235 on: 17 Aug 2005, 14:04:19 »
lilwillie_WI:
It is comemnts like yours that make it all worth while.  Thanks

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1236 on: 17 Aug 2005, 21:30:27 »
Get v1.30 here

Okay so here is v1.30.  I think I have dealt with most if not all of the issues you all found in the previous version, plus some.

The list of detailed changes is too long to put here, but in summary:
- general fixes of issues identified in the previous version

- subtle changes to how the sides react to their base being attacked and their leader killed and subtle changes to the rules used to decide if one side will launch an all out attack on the other.  Such an all out attack is now more likely - depending on the action of the player of course.

- the skill levels of the team increase more slowly

- dead soldiers will now provide the player with very little ammo.  Previously this was just at Vigny, now it is across the map.

- the player now has the option to turn off most of the environmental effects.  The results of choosing the Reduced Environmental Effects should take the lag back to close to what it was for v1.10.  Selecting this option will result in:
1. No custom burn/smoke script for destroyed armour.
2. No added environmental sounds.
3. No civilians peeping from houses.
4. No escape of civilians from Chapoi.
5. The number of custom AV and AP mines will be halved, from 10 AV and 20 AP mines to 5 AV and 10 AP mines.
6. The flags carried by the leader of several groups will not transfer to the new leader when the previous leader is killed.


The previous version included a subtlety in how the sides trade with each other that did not seem to get picked up, so just to give the old hands a clue:  You might not wish to attack the convoys until you understand how La Trinite works.

I believe this version is the release version subject to any significant issues any of you might find.  In other words it is now at a point where I am quite happy with it.  I could keep improving it for ever but the niggles I have are now getting to be quite minor, or very difficult to fix.  For example I can't imagine how long I have tried to get Tatyana to look at the camera when she stands up.  Your team seem to want to point in all sorts of directions during the reorganise dialogue etc. but I am now hitting the law of diminishing returns on effort in a big way.

Things I am particularly interested in getting comment on are:
- Team skill levels now increase more slowly that in earlier versions - still too fast or have I over done it?
- Ammo is now very scarce, and ammo trucks initially of less value….Simply getting weapons and ammo should now be a real challenge.  Is this noticeable?  Have I overdone it?
- Obviously any other thing that causes you any problems.


Thanks again for all the time many of you have spent on this, I really appreciate it.

Offline Planck

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1237 on: 17 Aug 2005, 21:54:03 »
Quote
The previous version included a subtlety in how the sides trade with each other that did not seem to get picked up, so just to give the old hands a clue:  You might not wish to attack the convoys until you understand how La Trinite works.

Naww.....I noticed.

I found the crates in one shed devoid of anything I wanted....Like a Bizon.

So, I waited till the next convoy had been and gone again, then I went back and looked again..........and got a Bizon.


Planck
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Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1238 on: 17 Aug 2005, 22:07:17 »
You never said, I though no one knew.  I should have know better with you about.  Guess what you get if you capture one of the ammo trucks?
« Last Edit: 17 Aug 2005, 22:07:59 by THobson »

Offline Planck

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1239 on: 17 Aug 2005, 22:13:56 »
hmmmmmmm........an empty truck?


Planck
I know a little about a lot, and a lot about a little.

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1240 on: 17 Aug 2005, 22:48:48 »
I meant the ammo trucks in the convoys - sorry should have said.  No - think again.  In fact Mikero posted about his capture of an ammo truck.  It was full of rifles, handguns and assorted ammo.
Q:  What direction was Mikero's ammo truck travelling in when he captured it?

I can feel the red wine begining to insert some flippancy - I will log off.  See you all later. ;D
« Last Edit: 17 Aug 2005, 22:53:11 by THobson »

Offline Planck

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1241 on: 17 Aug 2005, 23:12:45 »
Quote
Q:  What direction was Mikero's ammo truck travelling in when he captured it?

I think it was heading south, back to home base.   ;D


Planck
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Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1242 on: 17 Aug 2005, 23:30:14 »
It was certainly heading south.  Well done.  You clearly understand the trade.

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1243 on: 18 Aug 2005, 01:45:53 »
I wont claim cunning here Thob when it aint true, but, during the various written exchnages over version 1.23 it was 'obvious' that Trinite would trade in the manner you described, and, in various attempts at playing your god-damn mission some 'quirks' were discovered in the ammo boxes, which, I took little notice of. Half the reasons there, was it became difficult / impossible to get my squad past those radiation signs to benefit from the contents. So another dilution to the effect.

The fact remained that ammo was plentiful around you by the time anyone reached T3 so the trade effect was far less important than it should have been. If I'm now left scrabbling and preserving every precious bullet in this version, I'm gonna be mighty pleased. Without testing yet, I believe this change has made yet-another, entire new dimension to the game and made it yet-another wow experience even for us 'old hands'. It's all so obvious in hindsight isn't it. But I'm going to offer an early pre-congratulations on doing 'it' yet again.

One thing that is alarming me right now is that engine 'bug' where you can't get your people to grab the last magazine, or the last, rocket from a dead loon weapon. I don't know if you've 'corrected' this quirk, but if not, and for other players benefit, the solution is to pick up the weapon yourself and empty the 'contents' on the ground.

sigh, another sleepless night or two is ahead of me, surely to god there's someone marriable in this version.
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Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1244 on: 18 Aug 2005, 07:53:32 »
OFP:R bench 5685, vetmode, no superai

ReadMe:

An even higher standard of readability than the last one.

suggestion *only*

"There is quite a lot of randomisation in the mission to increase its unpredictability.  "

fear of god stuff. You neglected to mention that you do not respawn. You mention you don't cheat, but respawn is a terrifying possibility.

Overview:

perfect. Great presentation. Slight niggle that 'Thobson' doesn't have a full spaced para to itself at bottom.

Intro:

I had the impression this has changed. If not and regardless, it is picture perfect. There are so many residual 'memories' in this mission of so many spectacular events that happen, it is a little hard to recall if the Intro I see now is new, or just a recall of fabulousness. A derived memory. The action in towards Trinite is terrific, a mere glimpse of a surrendering soldier on Zoom. The 'execution' far more visually realistic, the pull back shot of the hung civilians, terrifying. Have the distinct sense that every change of music pitch has been synchronised against a scene.

Niggled by the text telling Alexei to bring the uncle back to the small Island. It never, and can't, happen. There is a suggestion here that I should, somehow, use that boat again. But, the phrase is contextually spot on. What else would my mother say? A niggle.

Briefing:

You blurbed it out, just a little, and I don't like it. I think what concerns me is that damn boat. If it were me, I would have used that blurb to warn me (in your subtle understated style) not to use it. Am also getting a naggy feeling that you've done good here and I'm just unhappy that the mission's working more to your meaning than my (previous) interpretation of it. Random thoughts Thob.

General tabs:

voiceovers remain perfect.

Mission:

whooeee here we go (again). Did I tell you how much I hate mountain climbing? Especially when it's raining, especially when it's dark, and especially when I'm convinced the next bush has an AK47 pointed at me?

Selection:

wooo! Distinct. The over-arching ultimately important override. You state flatly, the most important aspect. It has no effect on game play. Only annoyance is it instantly pulls me out of the game. Nothing you can do about that. I think the whole way you phrased it, and separately, the entire read me concerning it was perfect.

heard sound of engine, got into boat. Only a phool would drive it further. It 'felt' like it was sinking.

that terryfying climb has never altered in intensity for me. As a player, you just don't have any idea what's going to happen. A hundred different scenarios play in your mind. You can wing it and never trip over, you can stumble a hundred times and be thankful that you did. You can end up miles from the town, or slamn straight into it. No matter how many replays.

This time, jumped twenty metres backwards when the lightning hit. Wounded before I start <sigh>

Honest to god, that rain makes me feel less sweaty. I'm only half way up and already feel a victory, a win, at getting that far.

Vigny never changes it's terror for me, I am shocked by what looks so evil. Scrabble about and notice no fire. That building is no longer my first port of call. I eventually go near it because it's not destroyed. Clean out three loons, cutscene triggers. Unhappy at the loss of that fire but the chances of scouting around all buildings first are far greater. The chances of being shot by surprise are also far far greater. So all in all a good thing.
<bug>
It's changed for the worse here Thob, Tatyana is buried in the bed and persistently bobbing and wobbling during the cutscene. I caught a brief glimpse of her from outside, doing similar. Without the fire, there's too much 'grey' to distinguish her from another loon. My guess is, she'd be shot dead by most players because they've already been surprised in the gloom by three other loons. I'd shoot first, ask later, if it were me first time thru. Am having dfficulty here because is this 'better', and I think imight be. I'm just used to something else.

Also, the 'warmth' of the scene has been taken away without that fire. I know why you did it, but it's a poor compromise for me. It just doesn't fit well, at all. Would you consider moving her to halfway Vigny<>Pessagne? If I spot a light after scrabbling all over Vigny, then the moth to flames stuff would really work.

Noticed that none of the bodies now have voicovers (except Tatyana). Am sorry to see the rustling the corpse action dissapear but it was a good decision.

Desperately short of ammo, I look at the morning sky and decide that I'd as soon travel in daylight so I spend a lot of time fossicking about Vigny, hoping for an ammo crate or something. Soon shot dead by enemy patrol. Restart and spend my time picking them off for their ammo stash. Not without being deadled several times. Of the perhaps 5 loons that were foolish enough to come into my town, 3 of them had red flags.

Sound of armour North West'ish. Drive in and up to La Pessagne. Got into centre of village by mistake, hop out, and instantly hit with lead from all directions. Retry. Take out the standing loon next to garage, the other at the roadblock, then the fun begins. 3 man squad race right accross road a luck grenade deals with them, and it was, lucky. Crawl back to my jeep only to find a nasty waiting for me. splat. Retry.

Same scenario, but I'm pleased I delayed my move to lodge. Mist is there, but it's beginning to brighten up. Clean up town and check those two jeeps. First time, I notice refuel barrels, and I do so. More for me, less for them. I park jeeps as roadblocks to just cause havoc with anything that might come that way later and move on after collecting a single rocket (rpg). Gee, thanks very much.

Just as I rise over the ridge near 1st civils, four mosquito jeeps flash by. I get out to do some damage, but they're too fast. I decide to chase them back to La P, and as I hit the ridge again a god damn T72 rolls straight over the top of me. Litterally crushing the police jeep and it's contents. Restart.

Phew, examining my options. I don't have any. There's nowhere near enough punch in my collected armory to do anything. So, it's going to be a quiet, stealthy trip to the lodge for me. Vain hope I think.

The mist is 'good'. It's not a pea soup, you can just make out what you need to, along the road in the headlights. I get up to the wooden hut with two dead res soldiers (voiceover). Small back ground sound of mosquito jeeps trying their best to negotiate my roadblock way down valley in La P. Ho ho. There's the faintest suggestion of menace. Some almost inaudible sound of squeaky wheels. Get back in my Police Jeep and a tank from god knows fires a shell directly over my head towards mountain. I actually see the missile shrinking as it passes me. Definite change of underpants after that.

I'm in a murderous mood. I leap out find a bush, and an M113 is unfortunate enough to meet my bad temper. One rocket one dead M113.

I think I should have kept my temper.

I race out of there and happen to land on the dirt road to 1st civils. Taking a punt, I head towards them.

No matter which way, no matter how I approach, I'm dead. After many retries because I'm totally intrigued, I figure you've got a killzone switch. But a clever one. One that starts and ends with the sound of a bullet, so that player always assumes he's just not smart enough to outwit (a non-existent) enemy. There's sound of shooting going on near the civil hut and I'm dead keen to go in and help, but can't. I shall return, hopefully with re-inforcements.

Got to bus roadblock. Voicover a little trickier to achieve. And it has been repositioned.

Got to hamlet after Goisse turn off. All destroyed, and no sign of wooden hut now.

Got to lodge. Preferred the warning shot which is now missing.

Cutscene has worsened. Tatyana's bed has moved from wall somewhat and that part of the scene is poorer for it. A sort of vacant camera view to half-nothing. Tatyana herself is not bloodied. V1.23, she was, slightly, and subtly. Other than that, everything remains excellent.

Checked radio trigger by going far away,  checked radio, all fine.

Armed everyone fully with good equipement, only because I was obsessed with making sure I had some to begin with.

Boarded truck, looking for ghosts.

Echoes of chopper flying around.

There is no lag, zero, nada, zilch and only the merest suggestion of it when I was near that nasty 'orrible T72 monster that took a swipe at me.

I am aware of how evil you can be to the player and am constantly alert for randomised patrols. Other than the tanks/mosquitoes, I encountered none, this time through. In version 1.23 I actually started the war up here at this point so whatever's happened is for the better.

Everything remains oily, terrifying, and slick, except for some damage done to Tatyana and her bed. The jury's out for me on lack of campfire, I definitely don't like it, but, I suspect there's an entire new gameplay here for the unwary. A good thing.

Btw, have I ever mentioned to you how much I like this mission ;)
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