Addons At Ease - official initiative

[maruk]

Please see this thread at official Operation Flashpoint forums for discussion about new Bi's initiative for more accessible addons:

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard301/ikonboard.cgi?s=3e953eb32141ffff;act=ST;f=54;t=29034

[Messiah]

nice to see the OFPEC TAG system is supported by BIS  

[SFG]

Thanks for stopping by maruk

[Bremmer]

Isn't this rather like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted  

[Messiah]

guess so... but even if this was applied before addons... it would still rely on people co-operating  

[Baphomet]

As far as establishing a standard for the compressed file format I could NOT disagree with you more. I DO NOT WANT INSTALLERS FOR MY ADDONS.

I don't mind self extracting archives but I don't want every two bit mod maker thinking he has the right to clog my damn registry up with all sorts of junk because he wants to look professional or little johnny retard can't extract a rar, ace, or zip file.

Sorry if anyone finds this offensive, but I really hate it when people do that with addons. It's not necessary and makes things overall a big pain in the ass when I want to install a bunch of addons.

Keep it simple. That's what I say.

[Messiah]

and hey.... who can be sure what those installers are doing? they may put the addon in the right place.... but what about some malicious git who decides to place 'other' files in your pc? and .exe is the evil file name  

[Tomb]

I've ha a bad experience once with such stuff (not an ofp addon though), and since that I stay clear of 99% .exe crap  

But there are a few things to this:

• Installing/using addons SHOULD always be "AAE", in theory
• Selecting NORMAL (.zip/.rar etc) installation methods should be a free choise
• The perfect addon should (in theory) come without any readme/install_to_folder stuff

...like if one could simly "click & play"  

But I'd still like to have the opportunity to select regular unzipping; isn't it possible to just add this feature to the *extractor So that we can choose for ourselves wether or not we wanna use the .exe or the 'manual unpacking' ?

I can't imagine that being such a difficult programming job to do   to simply add these two options to the same installer program.

Readme's are great but addons should (as I like to see them) be kept simple (not in structure but in use), so that you can actually play with them even though you may be one of the "outside_ofp'ers" who never visit forums or read any installing notes.

I don't think an addon maker can take for granted that the gamers will read his readMe; in fact, most ppl probably don't (stupid it may be). And thus: Those d00ds can use the .exe and continue their ways of gaming   while the more cautious ppl could select :

"manual installing"

 - or alike. That would be nice.  

As for the author tag sys: it's not really an author tag system as I see it but an anti-crasher,
and as such a great way to avoid conflicts ('expelled' addons etc.)

And "quality stamps" ... well, if it boosts the autors efforts to do a better job so that they can get the   mark of pride and eternal afterlife, 10 wifes and three Rolls Royce's (and give us mortals better addons) then I'm all for that too  ;D

Tombs

[MI_Fred]

Ã-h Tombey, don't let loose these kinda things out of your hole:

The perfect addon should (in theory) come without any readme/install_to_folder stuff

How else, with all the more advanced and widget-featuring addons coming out, are you going to be able to know how to nudge that widget?  ;D I am, ofcourse pointing at BAS (for example uh huh), which addons require notes of usage if they wish someone will use their fancy widgets some day. And any other, when you wan't to use it scripting wise, class names and such are good knowledge to include in a readme. There was once a day (more like a year and still is) when no readmes existed and that was a nightmare, remember? wanna revert progression?

Instead of .txt file readme, well, you could run the installer which has the readme somehow incorporated (was that what you meant Tomb?) for easy viewing. And this might mean there'd have to be instructional material for making installers if they'd go complex. I don't see that happening... or has BIS taken this into account? They'd better, or I'll wan't back my 9 wifes and 4 Rolls. Wait...yes.
 

[Tomb]

 ;D



lol, nah I just meant that the "easy user" types should be able to use an addon without doing anything but "click & play", while the rest of us can choose to read the readme & get the benefits from doing that  

  et's just take the bas_rangers as an example.
(we could also take the DKM_comanche, or the bas_OH58D etc.) :

You can use right away, and thats fine.
Or you can read (...and read... ) and explore an even better addon.

The good addon work both ways, and intern scrolls can auto-run without ppl know it.

See,  I just like it when ppl have a free choise. It doesn't mean I don't like readMe's myself  

cheers  :cheers: :thumbsup:

[Tomb]

 
     I'll have to agree with Tombs on this one  

[asmodeus]

huh?  

Anyway, all of us "OFP Guru's" need to realize that BIS (like they said in the 1985 forums) is not doing this for us.  They are doing it for the "casual gamer" to be able to use the easier to use addons and have a place to get them where they all live up to a standard.

I also think this could have to do with x-box as it would have to use installers.  

So... I agree with the idea, but unfortunately a lot of the EC's addons won't be "casual gamer" compatible due to the fact that we try to achieve things that weren't supposed to be done in OFP...  And that almost always requires at least a description.ext with 1 line in it or an init.sqs with 1 line of code in it...   :-\

Bottom line, I like the idea and it will be beneficial to a lot of people out there that we don't see on a day-to-day basis.  (and it will probably help the OFP community grow even more)    I think it's cool and everyone doesn't have to participate if they don't want to.  

If the EC does end up trying to submit something to addons at ease, we will have a .zip version available always for those that don't like installers.  (like me)  

Asmo

[Wolf]

I don't like self extrating EXE file either, case in point, I wanted to try some of the addons from the Swiss mod, so I downloaded them, found out they were EXE files, thought, no big deal, I'll just set the directory to my downloads folder so I can see whats going into my addons folder. However, after clicking on it, it automatially installed it somewhere, but not in my addons directory. I assumed it must have put it in my addons folder, deleted the exe file, and started OFP. But the addons weren't there, and I couldn't remember the names of the PBOs, so I redownloaded(I have a 56k, and these were 8mb addons), and reinstalled them, this time it asked to overwrite, and I saw where it was putting them.
I found out that it had put it in a
Program Files\Codemastes blablabla.
I did not however have OFP in the default directory.
So, this is one reason why I think Self extrating EXE files are no good. And that good ol zip\rar is fine.

[Kaliyuga]

 I also think this could have to do with x-box

 anyone have any other speculations on this aspect of it?  

 I did hear something about being able to add missions/addons to the X box by downloading them....

 could using this kind of installer... easily used addons open up a whole new realm of console gaming to us addon and mission makers?

 Of course this is all wild speculation.....  but it was the first thing that came to mind when I heard of this initiative.

 As Asmo said the main goal of this initiative from what I understand it is to make addons more moron friendly..
  for those that really have no clue how to unzip something to an addon folder.

 I can certainly understand the motivation to reach the greatest number of people with addons and such...

  but I personally think if you haven't figured out how to install an addon by now then there is something seriously wrong with you, and you may as well give up on OFP and possibly computer gaming all together  

 So the only way I would like to see some sort of installer/easy to use addon system implemented would be if it had something to do with console versions of OFP being able to implement third party addons and missions
:toocool:

[Tigershark]

Isn't this rather like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted  

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Baphomet]

I also think this could have to do with x-box as it would have to use installers

NOOOOOOOOOOO!

The shitboxers don't deserve our addons! They should be left scratching their stupid X-box playing heads wondering what the big deal about this game is while I laugh and gloat at them for being stupid enough to attempt to play a FPS game with their beastly controllers!

OFP is an example of a game taking full advantage of the PC platform. Yeah I'm biased, I don't think the people who have never touched a pc should be enjoying the fruits of the PC ofp community's labour. Why a PC ofp'er would play it on the X-box. I have no idea. Consoles are garbage for fps games.

[toadlife]

Bah!!

Instead of clogging my registry with 100 msi programs, how about focusing on getting right next time? I'd like to some sort of integrated program(I'll call it the "OFP update Manager") come with the next version of OFP that makes the whole mission/addon thing completely painless and error free for the folks who just want to PLAY the game.

Perhaps mission makers could post XML files on their websites that contain all of the info for their missions. Maybe even a browser plug in that integrates with "OFP update Manager" thingy, that would handle special links mission makers put on their site.

The user could wither click on a link, a have the browser plugin load the "OFP update Manager", or the user could put in the URL for the website where the XML file is. The "OFP update Manager" would then connect, get the XML file, and display a list of missions available. Then the user would click on the mission they want, and OFP would magically download all of the necessary files, and install them automatically.

An "update" feature could automatically go out to the net, and download whatever updates are necessary for the various downloaded missions and addons.

Something like this could even be used to install official patches for OFP.

Along with a BIS supported standard to keep addons from stepping on each other, this could make things 1000% better.

Just my 2 pennies.

[asmodeus]

a very interesting idea!  

That would definately make things easier!  

:thumbsup:

For some reason I have the nagging feeling that it might interrupt some of the editing freedom currently found in OFP...  But I don't know enough about the details to say why.  

Thoughts?

Asmo

[Tomb]

yea that sounds uuhm... nice, toady  

(why do I have the feeling that games 'n' addons will never ever see a church & get 100% married?!)
To some extend, I guess you'll always need 2 do a lil' thinking and fixing if ya wanna use addons  

  Could be fun to know just HOW many NFMYSPCOFP's there are out there?!

(non-forum-members-yet-still-PC-version-ofp'ers), all the 'easy gamers' yanno.
Do they care at all?

[Baphomet]

That would be good mainly for the upper echelon of ofp addons out there, from well known makers. Definitely, still the ability to back up older versions of addons for whatever reason would still be nice. I wouldn't want it to take over tasks I normally prefer to do on my own. Personally I like doing things the good ol fashioned way. That's just me.

As far as other addons that aren't as mainstream. I don't think that would be a benefit. However on the same token someone might contend that there is no place for ofp addons that aren't coming from BAS or what have you. I'd have to strongly disagree. I like my obscure intermediate to low quality addons as long as they give me a certain degree of enjoyment. The Toyota Hilux is a good example of this. =P

I'm also a tinkerer and I like to customize things, so fidding with the other huge addon packs doesn't really tickle my fancy too much. I like to be able to take a selection of addons, balance them out for a specific purpose and LAN it up with my buddies.

The day that the amateur ofp addon scene is exiled from the community is the day I'll stop enjoying the game. That reason alone was one of the reasons why I loved it. Anyone could make an addon and the variety was just wonderful. I log onto those ofp sites and I see an addon every few days or so and it's like a gift that keeps on giving. =P

[macguba]

Gentlemen, relax.    BIS are not suggesting any kind of interference with the existing addon/editing community.    We will always be able to enjoy our tinkering.   What they are suggesting is a new venture, aimed largely at people who currently do not use addons at all and have never clicked on the mysterious words "Mission Editor".

BIS have observed that some user created addons and missions are of sufficient quality to release to the general public.  This is an effective way of doing it.    No addon maker is going to be compelled to do it and there is no reason why a given addon cannot be hosted on the maker's site (or OFPEC or whereever) as it is now, as well as being part of a BIS pack.

By hosting addons on the official site with a user friendly installer, what they are effectively doing is offering mini expansion packs.    This is a way of extending the life of OFP till OFP2 is ready next year, and consequently it's a commercially attractive idea.

In other words, in only affects people like us if we want it to.    We can still tinker, edit, change and generally manipulate the game as much as we did before.    And apart from anything else, BIS are not going to accept any user addons until we - the community - have beta tested them to death.

Personally I think this is an absolutely superb idea and the community should support it as much as it can.   It only does us good.

[Tomb]

...BIS have observed that some user created addons and missions are of sufficient quality to release to the general public

hehehe, they oserved that some of the gamers were in fact making better models than the original models were made  ;D But with such a relative succesful game, I would of been surprised if there WOULDN'T have been at least a FEW exellent talents among the mob of OFP fans out there. Besides, some of the orig. models prolly date back to 1997-8 (take the BMP as an example) when the graphics was alot more rough than what can be made nowadays.
Also, when reading the orig config. it seems to me that lots of ideas were dumped in the process of developing the game, and BIS didn't bother removing all of this trash, or they kept if for (possible) future use (as in the "class motorcycle" case).   So boosting the gameplay for regular OFP'ers by offering/advertising exellent non official addons - and doing it with some sys. of basic quality demands - is great, especially if this initiative can also boost the more 'underground' type of addon makers to use tags in all their home made classes, PBO file names (and, as I prefer myself, even on p3d's and sub class names - it never hurts, it doesn't cost you anything, no one can see it ingame, and it MAY be useful in case any future, further class restrictions should occur).