(Review Completed) [SP] Last Tango In Bagango

[LCD]

wow...    da outro is just magnificent..... mebe ull give me some ideas 4 mine ill contact u sometime later (now i need 2 off 2 job )

but 1st heres da beta report

package

 

overview

 

intro

 

briefing

1) mebe some weapon selection... us being a spec ops shud give us more flexibilty in weapon choice (i hate da shortened AK... love da long 1s
2) remove da whole team from playable... 4 da SP ver... it cud b nice in case of playin MP

mision

1)mebe have da conversation w/ cojon done in titletext ? instead of sidechat ?
2)ny case u shud add callsigns 4 da players group... nd callsign 4 nygroup dat uses radio
3)mebe add identity (using description.ext) 2 el-cojon... cuz he joins my group nd hes not named el-cojon in my group list
4)da recorded voices r little low (i have 2 raise deir voices 2 hear clearly... nd den my radio orders 2 da group is very very high)
5) mebe punish da plyer 4 not being stealthy while savin cojon ? enemies shotin cojon nd his friend ? so he goes w/o intel nd w/o help
6) 1 of da civies dat joins me has a skill of expert? i was thinkin his simple civ
7)mebe addin retry point after el cojon joins me ?
it cud b nice touch 2 have 2 weapons really under da trucktor... (use weapon holder)
9) wat do da mine on da cache does ? it doesnt seem 2 get activated or nything ?
10) da buildings were da ammo caches get destroyed... but da ammo cache stays inj place... mebe delete if some time after da explosion ?
11) u have all da player radio msgs after some time done on global channel... move it 2 side or group chat
12) i sugest u may want 2 clear civies from da area of ammo caches (dey get cought in da explosions...) use a domove command on every civie dat gets close or somin like dat
13) dere is a sound file mising... called truckerVamanos
14) dere is a hint det gets sayin "hint in start outro triger" or somin like dat...
15) i broke da ending part... i went dere b4 takin out da fuel cache (mebe add som1 sayin u dont move till u finish ur mision or somin da like) nd den got all my soldiers inside da truck... it didnt end but wen i got out 2 made da fuel cache 2 explode da truck folowed me... den i went back in nd da mision didnt end....

outro

   so good

but b4 every black cut... da camera moves a lil in da truck... try 2 make it stop movin only after da black outs

summary

its cool nd almost ready... some small fixes nd its 1 of da most funny things i ever played

LCD OUT

Project Beta Approved

[johnnyboy]

LCD:  Thanks much for the detailed review!  Much appreciated!  But I am a little mad at you, because now I have more work to do....

I'm putting a few questions to you at the top here:

Q1:

4)da recorded voices r little low

.  Was this all voices, or the voices at the farm when cojon is interroated by the RACS?

During the interrogation, the voices should not be loud because they are talking to each other, not the player.  They should only be loud if player creeps up close.

Q2:

add callsigns 4 da players group... nd callsign 4 nygroup dat uses radio

  Good idea.  How do I do this?  Is this SetGroupID?

Q3:

but b4 every black cut... da camera moves a lil in da truck... try 2 make it stop movin only after da black outs

  LCD, I don't understand this.  Could you explain this problem better please?


Other feedback:

1) mebe some weapon selection

 
I guess I have to do this for player preference sake.  But I think it will conflict with the weapons I added to them via the init (satchels, rpgs, nades, silenced pistols).  Will do it though (I guess I have to remove the addweapon stuff from their inits).

remove da whole team from playable

 
That's a personal preference thing.  There is no real rule that a SP mission should have only one real character (except for a campaign where you need character continuity).  I am a bad player, and can't beat this mission without a playable team.

conversation w/ cojon done in titletext ? instead of sidechat ?

 
This was a deliberate choice I made.  I use titletext for cutscenes, and chat for "live" conversations.

2)3)mebe add identity

Good idea.  Will do.

mebe punish da plyer 4 not being stealthy while savin cojon ? enemies shotin cojon nd his friend ? so he goes w/o intel nd w/o help

If you don't act fast, one or both die before you can get intel.  But I agree that if you don't do it quietly, you should be punished, but I can't "cheat" and have them always killed by hidden enemies...  I also have a complexity problem, where once the intel conversation starts between player and cojon, it needs to finish without an interruption, because the permutations are too complex to handle (or not worth the effort).  But your point is good, and I have thought about it before.  I think I will send alerted troops to investigate if too much noise at farm (but they will arrive after the consversation).  A few shots by Western guns are not an alarm though, as the RACS bullying the locals is a normal activity in my story.

6) 1 of da civies dat joins me has a skill of expert?

  I did this because civs act so stupid under combat.  I'm hoping he will be less stupid (and more likely to stay with the squad) if he is expert.

mebe addin retry point after el cojon joins me

  I'm not sure.  The farm sequence is the most interesting, and has different outcomes if replayed, so I like the player to replay it.  The player can always choose to save.

9) wat do da mine on da cache does ?

  I think this is an ARMA bug.  There are no mines at the ammo boxes (I checked the editor and searched the mission.sqm to be sure).  I have an ammo script that removes all weapons/magazines, and then adds stuff to the boxes...and it also has NO mines.  Weird.

da ammo cache stays inj place

  Good observation.  Will remove or sink them.

u have all da player radio msgs after some time done on global channel... move it 2 side or group chat

  Will fix!

clear civies from da area of ammo caches

  Good idea. 

sound file mising

  Dammit!!!

hint in start outro triger

  Oops.  Dammit again!!!

15) i broke da ending part... i went dere b4 takin out da fuel cache (mebe add som1 sayin u dont move till u finish ur mision or somin da like) nd den got all my soldiers inside da truck... it didnt end but wen i got out 2 made da fuel cache 2 explode da truck folowed me... den i went back in nd da mision didnt end....

Oh LCD, why do you have to break my first born child???  Good find, I must fix this!

da outro is just magnificent

  Glad you enjoyed it!  I've seen it 1000 times while editing it, and still get a laugh out of it.

Thanks again for your time and the thoughtful feedback.  This is VERY helpful to me.

Maybe I'll call in sick to work today, and finish this sucker...will it ever be finished?  Arggggggggh!!!!

mebe ull give me some ideas 4 mine  ill contact u sometime later

  Anytime my friend.  Happy to help any way I can.

[LeeHunt]

not done withe mission yet and going on vacation, but wanted to say i about split my pants when i heard the rebels called "Los Pantalones" etc.  Hilarious.  An overview picture with an outhouse makes a mission a must play  . will give the betatest report for your's and a few other's when i get back, but great work so far!

[LCD]

Was this all voices, or the voices at the farm when cojon is interroated by the RACS?

didnt hear da voices of da interogation

its all da rest

Good idea.  How do I do this?  Is this SetGroupID?

exactly

LCD, I don't understand this.  Could you explain this problem better please?

in da outro u have da driver tellin da story... nd da player sitin near him...*.... den black out nd show how da story goes....

lil bit b4 da blackout da cam stops folowin da driver.... just a 1 second tingy... but i noticed it...

I guess I have to do this for player preference sake.  But I think it will conflict with the weapons I added to them via the init (satchels, rpgs, nades, silenced pistols).  Will do it though (I guess I have to remove the addweapon stuff from their inits).

ArmA is beter dan det... it wont clash

LCD OUT

[DarkAngel]

Using Arma 1.08, Veteran mode

Intro:

Loved it. Lots of humour and good solid camerawork. "El Cojon" grinning at the camera was particularly amusing, as was the location of his OP. Volume of speech etc all seemed good.

Briefing

Clear and simple. I enjoyed the notes section with the player character musing over the names. And the idea of long trousers being against the religion is...well, pretty crazy. But fits in with the fun character of the mission. Nice to be playing OFPOR for a change. No weapons selection, which is fine. It's a small point, but the Insert marker is an arrow when it could be the start marker. Also, the arrow points South and we start off facing West.

Mission

Noticed the "move" waypoint, which is unusual if playing in Veteran. Normally I prefer to do without waypoints (they cut down on my freedom to go and do the mission however I want) but hey, I'll go with it. Follow the waypoint to meet "El Cojon". As we near his house, I hear myself say that he's got company. Get my squad to stop and I move around the North side of his place on my own. The Sureno officer starts interrogating our buddy. When the officer orders the grunt to search the house, I move in and waste them all, leaving my soldiers to bring up the rear. Luckily the weapons weren't in the house anyway. All the dialogue is clearly audible - actually it seems pretty loud, but that's fine. There's a slight pause between the RACS soldiers being killed and the dialogue with El Cojon starting - might make more sense to bring that dialogue in right away. Just as El Cojon and his brother join our group, a RACS survivor turns up and kills one of my men. We move off towards the Northern arms cache, as that's the nearest objective. No more waypoints - I'd argue that in that case you don't really need the one at Casa Cojon. The town seems very quiet, which suits me just fine, so I decide on a direct approach to the target. This turns out to be a foolish error as we run into some RACS who waste half my team. I destroy the arms cache but get taken out by a Hummvee. Reload to start of mission. It might be nice to put a savegame in once Cojon joins the team.

This time, having killed the RACS, I notice the guy coming out of the outhouse - very nice. I retry a couple of times but keep getting killed - just not having a good day I think! Will try again a bit later on, but so far it's an enjoyable, if challenging mission...

Debriefing/Outro

Haven't played yet.

Project Beta Approved

[johnnyboy]

Darkangel, thanks much for your time and feedback thus far!

Intro:  Loved it. Lots of humour and good solid camerawork. "El Cojon" grinning at the camera was particularly amusing

Thanks!  I'm glad you mentioned the grinning at the camera thing...it was a small subtle touch that I wasn't sure worked or not, so its cool you noticed. 

idea of long trousers being against the religion is...well, pretty crazy

LOL.  I was struggling with how to tell the two civilian factions apart, and noticed that civ models were roughly half with shorts, and half with pants.  The idea grew from there.

Thanks for the tips on the markers...I will likely change per your suggestions.

....the "move" waypoint...

  Valid point.  I should drop it (it was there just to start the team in delta formation).

All the dialogue is clearly audible - actually it seems pretty loud, but that's fine

LCD's last review said it was too low, and should be turned up.  When I balance your two reports, I think I will leave it as is...

There's a slight pause between the RACS soldiers being killed and the dialogue with El Cojon starting - might make more sense to bring that dialogue in right away

I'll see if I can shorten that up.  My thinking was to leave the player a little time after the farm fire fight to verify the immediate area is clear, and give Cojon time to recover and react to the situation.

Casa Cojon

"Casa Cojon"...I like it!  I might have to work that into the dialogue!

put a savegame in once Cojon joins the team

My selfish reason for no savegame is I like for the player to replay the farmhouse encounter, as its dynamic in its outcomes (different objectives revealed, or none, depending on how it plays out).  But you're the second person to say this, so I should probably add the savegame to be courteous to the player.

Thanks again for the thoughtful detailed feedback...it really helps.  I look forward the to the remainder of your review, and I'm betting you won't be disappointed by the outro!   

- JohnnyBoy out

P.S. I look forwart to beta testing your Moondark mission.  Hopefully I will have some time in the next few days...

[smoke52]

package/overview:
good, has all the info needed

intro:
i like the intro, it sets up the mission well, with some humor to boot

briefing


mission
i played this mission when you first released it and its much improved. i like how soldiers come out of the buildings when you get near, same with the guys patrolling inside. in one building one guy was walking back and forth between windows like duck hunt

the only problems i ran into was my squad not following me around town, i had to just forget about them and do the mission myself. they all eventually died and i was the last to finish the mission...

another thing is when you rescue the guys at the very start and he starts talking to you, asking the question "do you like to tango" well hes laying down while saying it, get him to stand up.then also at the end of the mission the truck sound wasnt found.

outro
love the outro, only nit pick is when the soldier shoots the camera you should use the dowatch command or something to get the chick to look at the guy who shot the camera as she screams her line.

summary
great mission. its quick and has lots of dynamic elements. good voice acting and the humor is what makes this one stand out

Project Beta Approved

[johnnyboy]

@smoke52:  Thanks a lot for your time and feedback.  Much appreciated.

i like how soldiers come out of the buildings when you get near, same with the guys patrolling inside. in one building one guy was walking back and forth between windows like duck hunt

 

Its alot of work, but missions are better when AI defenders move around, rather than be statues, so I try to keep them moving.

only problems i ran into was my squad not following me around town

Thats the frigging AI pathfinding in town.  Its possible to move them around with you, but you really have to micro-manage them by commanding them.  And there are a few paths they just won't take (like use gates in walls, etc.).

[Cojon] hes laying down while saying it, get him to stand up

I know.  This is really the biggest remaining flaw.  His script does the following on him multiple times:  setBehaviour "CARELESS", setCombatMode "BLUE", setUnitPos "UP", allowFleeing 0.  I even repeat setUnitPos "UP" before Cojon says every line, but half the time he will stay on the ground.

The civilian AI is not cooperative.  They seem to remember they were in danger (eventhough nearby enemies now dead), and will go prone until this memory fades.  My next idea is to have a twin El Cojon unit across the island who will have no memory of danger, and after the farm firefight, teleport him in to replace the first Cojon that was present during the firefight.  Hopefully his "danger memory" will be clean, and he would stay standing.  But having two units means alot of editing to the dialogue scripts...  I might have to do it though.

use the dowatch command or something to get the chick to look at the guy who shot the camera

Good idea.  The other goofy part, is her built-in animations have her glancing at her clipboard, as if she was reading the lines she was screaming.  Will fix this.

great mission. its quick and has lots of dynamic elements. good voice acting and the humor is what makes this one stand out

Thanks again for the feedback.  I think I am really close to finishing this now!

[johnnyboy]

Ready to reveiw!!!!

Finally!  It was a long hard road, but my first born child is ready for review.

Once again I would like to thank all the beta testers, as this mission has been improved greatly thanks to you:

- Bardosy
- 101
- Cheetah
- Shark Attack
- mathias_eichinger
- firecontrol
- Gielovic
- LCD
- Lee
- smoke52
- DarkAngel

El Cojon wishes you all good health, long life, and high frame rates.

Time to pour myself (and El Cojon) a well deserved cervesa fria (i.e., cold beer!).

- johnnyboy out!

[firecontrol]

I had just downloaded this earlier this week with the intention to test, but life got a little crazy lately. In any case,
Good to see this going for review! A really funny, enjoyable mission.

Good work Johnnyboy!

[johnnyboy]

Thanks Firecontrol!  Things have been hectic for me too, so I didn't get to help out testing during Project Beta, but should squeeze some in this week.

I look forward to trying your final version of The Raid as well.   Its a high quality mission.  Good luck on the review!

If you have time, give Last Tango another whirl, as I think you will enjoy the new outro!

This stuff sure is addictive...I've got a zillion new ideas for missions, and not enough time...

Oh yeah, here's the final list of fixes to the mission:

v1.0 Final Fixes
-------------
- Forced cojon to stand in intel dialogue by using the talking animation.
- ammo boxes disappear after done burning.
- player can't screw up end trigger by going to extraction point before objectives complete.
- fixed camera leaving truck cab to early.
- fixed mine appearing at ammo boxes (my bug after all LCD!!! good find).
- Eliminated move waypoint (but still have team start in Delta form)
- Intel dialogue starts sooner.
- Added savegame.
- Now punishing player if farm not taken down queitly (a few m16 shots ok though)
- Added weapon selection.
- Added callsigns for players and identity for El Cojon.
- Removed debugging hints.

[bardosy]

Sorry johnnyboy, but this mission is NOT addon-free. I DL yesterday and tried it, and I got a usual error message about downloadable content: editorupgrade102

[johnnyboy]

Damn!  Sorry about that.  A stupid addon sneaked in. 

I fixed it, and re-uploaded the mission to the first post.

My apologies for wasting your time on that...

[bardosy]

No problem, this is my job...

[Cheetah]

I'll review this one.