(Review Completed) [SP] Body Grab

[Tyger]

Hey mates...

New Beta mission here.
A few things first:
Version: Played and built on v1.96 Resistance, but should work with v1.90 and higher

Type: Single Player

Filesize: 3.38 Mb without addons

Addons:

• JAM2 or JAM3
  
• Laser's Deltas and Rangers (Patched v2.01)
  
• Laser's Weapons Pack (v2.01 or higher)
  
• Unscripted War: Vietnam Grass
  
  Background:
  An impending enemy assault must be stopped. To gain intelligence on this looming attack, you and your Delta Force team are being inserted into the weakest enemy sector to sieze a few prisoners for interogation.
  
  The mission can be downloaded here. (Rapidshare 30 day hosting)
  Edit: This mission has been reviewed, it can be found with current links to addons in the Missions Depot.
  
  I think the mission is a fair balance between hard and easy, so it should be quite playable. Some special stuff in it, too.
  
  
  @Mikero. Pic to be here soon
  Cheers mates, and happy playing.

[macguba]

While ofpec was down I gave the previous version of this a test in another place.    It needs work but it's promising.

[Mikero]

OFP1.96 bench 5685, vetmode, no superai

Package:

Readme:

Nice use of rich text format to get to hyperlinks. Good presentation and paragraphs-at-a-glance. All hyperlinks worked.

Not fussed with the readme name. I personally prefer a readme to be called just that, just like mission.sqm can only be called mission.sqm

Piccie:

None. We need this to advertise the mission. (this message not for Tyger )

Addons:

Fairly hefty but high quality stuff. The use of uwar_grass is an interesting wrinkle which hasn't had a lot of use (afaik). Makes the island 'different' in a nice way.

Overview:

There's everything here I like to see. (Modest) author advertising, a version number so I know what the hell it is I'm playing. Clever use of puns in wording and a nice format (italic).

Not bad to squeeze all that in a single whack. That pic, or more specifically, it's arrangement, needs something done to it. However, it's a damn sight better than yet-another-snapshot of Houdan.

Intro:

yes, yes, and YES. God I love OFP. Here's a typical example of what can be done, 'relatively easy' with this marvellous engine.

However, there's entire paragraphs in here that need to be read SLOWLY. They dissapear too quickly. The point being, that Intros are a mood thing. A device to immerse the player. Done right, I need to switch off and tune in. I need to read the text and start immersing myself. Slowly.

The opening phrase (a great Marine quote) needs much longer to hold there. Let the player grin. It's very tough as an author when you've memorized the lines to realise other's haven't

Great music, entirely in keeping. Poor use of the word 'Dan Rather' that's far far far too cheesy. Have only seen this interesting 'news' technique done once before on an Italian Special Forces mission. It works well. More can be done (as usual), but this is a very good Intro.

Briefing:

Typo = 'vicinity'

Phew.

Use of icons is marvellous. It's a small thing. The pity of it is, it is so rarely done. They could be 'better', they could be 'improved', but they're there. It's another technique in the author's arsenal that keeps a player intriqued, interested, something different. I also wasn't aware that you could link with them. Not bad at all.

All links worked 'correctly'.

All vital information on first page and good use of alternate pages for background info.

Using the 'notes' this way is a shame, but effective. This is a very interesting mission (for me), it's different, and I'm not sure how it could be explained better, other than to use the notes section to do it in.

Group:
Dissapointed to see the group were all experts. I guess they would be, but I love wrinkles and a few gotcha's. I always argue that the medic need not be so smart. The player-coomander should be instead.

Gear Selection:
I try andf forget Bis jargon as soon as I can (like all jargon), so I  wouldn't know what a sopmod was if it bit me. THE selections however are rational, the kitchen sink isn't in here, just useful, usable, amounts. Personal choice, which is what real gear selection should be.

Mission:

I'm fascinated by the theme. I personally don't know how to achieve a 'win' here because I shoot anything that twitches. Not my playing style.

Looking at the map, I decide the lighthouse might make a good POW camp. I get splattered on first attempt to go ther. So now I've got the 'picture', St Sedlo will have some sort of garrison and lots of little groups of nasties running around solo in hidden spots.

SHOWSTOPPER

no entry cgfbin\cfgweapons\..

almost permanent div zero error on screen (_nearest unit)

Both of these occurred after we'd wiped out two, maybe four, different squads of 7. I saw no ability to 'capture' any. And I certainly didn't like the idea of walking up to an armed loon to capture him.

You also have the M2 bug where my guys permanently fire at an empty Mgun nest. It needs to be blown up, or a dummy setpos to an offshore island far, far away.
----
Am puzzled and intrigued by this theme, but don't have any confidence that I'd be able to play it well.

[Tyger]

Thanks for the comments.

The missing weapons thing confuses me, but the div by zero is a problem with GB's ManMG scripts me think. (No hard feelings, GB, i wouldn't have used them if they weren't great).

Unfortunatly I don't know how to fix the script problem, because I don't get that error on my computer...  

[Trapper]

OFP1.96 bench 5555, vetmode, no superai

The idea is something new and good. But after a short while this version wasn't fun for me anymore.

The grass lags heavy on my machine if I walk into it. And there's no need for three burning camp fires at one place with that.

EDIT: The downloadlink for the grass in your first post is bugged.


Readme:
No Hyperlink worked for me. I would have needed to search all the downloadlinks by myself.
Reason will be that only WordPad popped up, to open the .rtf file on my computer.

Overview:
I would like the picture more without the black border, just like the good old original ones.
Also I've noticed a white ?shadow? on the left and bottom of the picture. It looks strange.

Intro:
There was a problem with the black in at start. Free view on the island for a second, then the Titlecut finaly arrived. (Use titleText [" ","BLACK IN",9999] in initintro.sqs to start with a blackscreen in intro and outro)
For me as none native english speaker, it'll be more easy to follow the story, if you add 1 or 2 seconds to every text screen.
The reporters voice is very loud. I've noticed recording noise, that would better fit for a radio transmission.
That it was too loud is more a personal problem of mine. Its the same with the original conversations in OFP:  Like in almost every warmovie, voices and soundFX have the same level - If you turn up the volume for better soundfx you've to turn it down fast, when someone starts "talking" again.

Briefing:
Maybe you could add some more map links to the OPORD, like St. Sedlo for example.

How will I get back home when I'm done?
Why do the M203s come with six grenades in default, if there are vests with much more grenades available?
Where are the silenced weapons? (More about them later)

Mission:
First approach, killed 4 guys on patrol as slow as possible. No one surrendered. Another patrol kills me short after that.
Second approach, tried the 4 guys again, this time the last one surrenders, but I'm more than 100 meters away and want to wait if other enemys react. As you wrote he starts to flee after a while. Or maybe not. He met with a medic of another squad to be healed. I've chased him down at the same time like the medic. Killed the medic but there was no action to capture the soldier. Got shot by the medics squad.

Third approach.
This time I've got the idea: This is just not what I think is realistic...
So just go in there and hope someone will surrender while I'm annihilating a reinforced platoons position with my godlike delta force squad.  
While my squad is fighting down anyone who comes near, I run for the few POWs before they flee and take them with me. For the first time I'm somewhat successfull: 4 POWs but around 20 kills I think.
Oh no, whats up with the POWs? When I've captured the second one he wouldn't follow me? Not good: the follow/stop mode can be toggled for all POWs only. While he follows me finaly, the first one, who was guarded by my medic, just runs the 200m towards me.
So what I'm supposed to do? I don't have time in this chaotic situation to organize a "POW camp" that won't even keep them from fleeing. Ok, all the 4 POWs just follow me.
While fighting with the last defenders the POWs run into the bullets, so after all I'm left with 1 POW.
It was very frustrating after shooting squads to pieces, to chase the last crawling survivors down, without a way to take them captive! - I've tried to hurt them more and more with ricochets, but they all died before they surrendered.
In one firefight I've suddenly encoutered the error: no entry: 'config.bin/CfgWeapons.'.
After a while no more squads are comming for me and I get the feeling that there are not enough russians left to make 11 more POWs...
Before endmission cheat I've the last strange encounter:
In the church ruins north to St. Sedlo I stumble about a russian squad with rifles on back. I should've been able to take them captive in a POW mission as I was just 10m away with my rifle ready, but of course they rather start to fight than to surrender.  

More realistic in my opinion:

• EDIT: Change the experience. From mowing down a whole platoon while taking some POWs, to sneaking up on lonely patrols far away from their base and taking POWs. - And the Deltas should get in more shit than they can handle if the basecamp is alerted.
• more darkness, not bright day
• silenced weapons option, the deltas come for kidnapping not for a full assault.
• Take 12 guys captive and guard them with 9 guys in enemy territory? - Less POWs to win the mission.
• Kill the leaders and take the grunts for interogation? - No, kill their squads and just capture the leaders. Much more easy to script and more logical.
• The OFP ai doesn't know about the mission, it just shoots to kill or doesn't shoot.

There is a way to only attack specific targets, and you should tell it the less experienced players ("Hold Fire" - "Target" - "Fire")
But the whole mission was so chaotic, I didn't even try this.

• A smaller player team, as the ai is a too complicated helper in special forces missions.

Maybe five. Two for support and two guarding the POWs.

• If the player is able to sneak up close enough to units with rifle on back it would be nice if they would just surrender.

Debriefing:
Use some <br> to get the right spaces between the lines.

Outro:
I've used endmission cheat to get here.
Was it the Outrolose I had to watch?
Looks like the outro is only a place marker right now.
I won't like an outro where the player is killed for fun. - It looks like the author got finaly frustrated about his own mission.

Many critics, but this mission really has potential, don't get them wrong.

[Tyger]

Thanks, mate. I incorperated a few of the problems you said into a new mission.

Currently I won't post the new one because I'm adding scripting for a RATELO - CAS, DAP, Arty, and Ammo resupplying.

[Trapper]

I'm adding scripting for a RATELO - CAS, DAP, Arty, and Ammo resupplying.

Ok, I've no idea what RATELO and DAP means, but I know CloseAirSupport and Arty and this goes again into the direction unrealistic for me.

The problem I see is:
All the heavy assault possibilites you offer in the mission don't fit the scenario.
If I would be the russian commander and notice a big assault in my backyard, I would start my planned assault immediately. I would have to think, that the US pre-empt my assault plans.
And what would be the use of the interrogation, if the big russian assault has begun already?

I just won't to let you know my thoughts, before you put too much work into all this supports.

[Tyger]

Here's a change of the normal scenery for you:

Version: Played and built on v1.96 Resistance, but should work with v1.90 and higher

Type: Single Player

Filesize: 3.52 Mb without addons

Addons:

• JAM2 or JAM3
  
• Laser's Deltas and Rangers
  
• Lasers Weapons Pack
  
• Unscripted War: Vietnam Grass
  
• Invisible Targets Addon - Included in zip, 4kb.

Background:
An impending enemy assault must be stopped. To gain intelligence on this looming attack, you and your Delta Force team are being inserted into the weakest enemy sector to sieze a few prisoners for interogation.

The mission can be downloaded here. (Rapidshare 30 day hosting)

[Tyger]

A few pictures:

[img removed]body_grab_title.jpg[/img]

[Tyger]

Another picture...

[Tyger]

and a final one....

[guenon]

Time for monkey business

OFP v1.96, bench ~6400, no ECP, DXDLL enabled

Readme - got the essential parts .. only a install instruction for noobs missing

Overview - ok .. version number missing

Then the ugly part - obviously BAS addon needed .... got some missing addon message ... luckily this addon was on harddisk so no real problem - but it should be mentionend.

Intro - nice .. but cheesy music *tongue* ... and the quality of the voiceacting could be a bit improved ... the  quote at the beginning is nice - i liked it

Some really extensive plan - perhaps a little bit too much ... but some real good briefing. Only a few typos .... e.g.
at task organization: "to commanders discresion" <- discretion
at 3. execution c&b: "manuver" <- maneuver
also at the situation report: "are guard and will surrender if pressed" <- guardS (?)
And then there was a passage of the text "copy and past"-ed ... not that fine

First try: Got after a few minutes an error message (no abort) "No entry "config.bin/cfgweapons"" ... it happend when my m60e4 gunner ran out of ammo ... don't know if it means something

A few tries later i tried the CAS ... got an error message something with  cas_move and  stringtype - got to check it again ....

Another problem (?) - the soldiers in the first camp are almost ignoring me - even after shooting their officer from 200m they were careless ...

At all i don't get the point of this mission ... taking 12 captives seems to be quite impossible ... after taking St.Sedlo i got only one captive - my team killed them a lil' bit too fast - an setting my teammates on "hold fire" is not really a good idea - even if your enemies only got hd mag's ... it's really difficult that it won't become a turkey shooting ...

Perhaps i'll try to check the other features of the radio ... and get some specific infos about some errors.

edit: checked now the radio ... following issues
radio menu stays only open if the action key (default enter?) is hold
when using cas or dap following error occurs:
'_cas do move _logic|#|':error domove: type object, expected array .. the same happens with _dap
arty and ammo script seems to work, though after activating cas and dap there was a significant delay in using the arty... tried it again then it worked

about the bas addon - it needs the bas_repairh ... obviously only in the intro

p.s.: what the heck? what's about the password??

[Tyger]

Then the ugly part - obviously BAS addon needed .... got some missing addon message ... luckily this addon was on harddisk so no real problem - but it should be mentionend.

Hmm. I just checked and no BAS stuff is needed. Da*mit, will have to search the mission.sqm

"No entry "config.bin/cfgweapons""

An addon error. Can be fixed by dl-ing a patch for Laser's Deltas/Ranger apparently  

taking 12 captives

Did I miss a number here? It's supposed to be only four captives needed.

_cas do move _logic|#|':error domove: type object, expected array .. the same happens with _dap

Ah. Needs a getPos. Thanks.  

p.s.: what the heck? what's about the password??

Did you not get a prompt at the begining of the mission asking for a password?   Restart the mission and don't hit any keys. A diglog should pop up asking for a password...

Thanks for the comments mate.  

[guenon]

yeah - get the pw dialog every start of the mission ... but default user action in this case is "esc" ... and then there's no problem to play

ad bas_repairh: tried to play without my BAS Addonfolder ... it skipped the intro everytime i tried

ad 12 captives: i think this number was mentioned in the mission plan, gotta search it

[guenon]

Ok, checked it:

In the mission.sqm there are two bas_repairh entries under class intro - though it seems not to be used in the intro itself

About the 12 captives .... on the mission plan - the default objective

And the password - well, the dialog shows up, but it doesn't seem to work - you can use "ESC" to close it ... but if you press enter nothing happens ... tried to use your pw ... typed it in and pressed enter ... nothing happend - the dialog's still there - no invincibility available (or don't i have to press enter?)
 

An addon error. Can be fixed by dl-ing a patch for Laser's Deltas/Ranger apparently

checked my version - lsr weapons pack 2.01 (must be so - my at soldier healed my machine gunner ) .. also i'm using JAM3

On the mission itself - i got some big problems to take even one POW ... due to the good weaponry of my team they are killing almost any enemy at 200m+ .. perhaps it could be a one man show using the M21 and sniping out all enemy officers and so while you mates are standing behind ordered "hold fire", but i don't think it would be an good idea  ... perhaps "closing up" the battle will help ... e.g. dense ground fog (happens sometimes in early summer

Also some of the guards/units in and around the camp behave a little bit stupid ... if shooting starts they stand around doing nothing, or walk "CARELESS" around ... i'd rather see some action in the camp when attacking ... let's say taking cover and preparing to defend against the enemy and stuff like that .. also the guards are almost useless ... if you shoot them, other patrols are running around in their careless behaviour .. at least they should recognize a possible threat from nearby (~1km or) shooting

Something about the outro - nice idea, but...
there's an weird cam view ... at first you see the burning fuel trucks and then a view of the blue sky, while you hear something exploding ... is this planned?
and sometimes there's a "dancing delta squad" at the hill, ya know, the scene were the deltas and the pow run down the hill 104.
and a last "issue" - the scene where the deltas run to the lz ... they look like silly chicken ... their crowd behaviour is ofp standard  (=from funny to annoying) ... but it's no real problem

now i'm interested what other beta testers think

[Tyger]

Did you click the ENTER button? It's an Active Text Rsc. (For the password)

[guenon]

If i CLICKED the enter button?? ... uhm ... aham .. NO

[Tyger]

Yes, it's supposed to be clicked. I'll change the text on that

[Cheetah]

Tyger, the addon links you provide don't work when clicked. You're directing to http://ftp//, please fix these links. It's easier for others who don't see the fault.

[Tyger]

Ah, thanks Mozilla has a problem when copying links

[Cheetah]

I tried your mission saturday and found it enjoyable. The problem was that our weapons were too strong for the enemy soldiers. A shot in the upper leg of an enemy meant it's death. To make a long story short, I killed all of the enemies in St. Pedlo and couldn't capture one of them.

We attacked them in surprise, it wasn't enough to make them scary. They were more willingly to die. It was a pity for me, I'll try the mission again later this day. Then I'll write a longer report on your mission, I've got some ideas to complete the mission.

Oh by the way, that phone ... I feel stupid.

[Tyger]

Oh by the way, that phone ... I feel stupid.

;D I'll always throw in a trick or two.

They were more willingly to die.

I'll try decreasing their fleeing amount in the next release.

A shot in the upper leg of an enemy meant it's death.

Really?!? I haven't had this problem. The only time this happend for me was when I used the M21.

[Mikero]

Gee, I tell you what, the quality of the jpeg advertising piccies has improved in this and at least 3 other missions. I guess some authors are having a lot of fun with this.

[Cheetah]

Here a short summary on the things I experienced and are worth telling you. I hope they are of any use to you. If I need to clarify something, just ask me.
I'm not really in the mood of doing a long report and I don't think that your mission needs it. It feels pretty good, there's only some problems with the most important system. At least, from what I've experienced.

To begin with I'd like it if I get more control over the captives. I don't really know how this can be implemented, but when they follow me they get into the line of fire. So I'd like it if there's an option for me to let two of my soldiers wait in the back of the town with the POWs. When doing this I'm free in doing what I want to.

Another thing that I noticed was that soldiers in M2 positions are having problems surrendering. They put their hands on their back, but can't move. The enemy battallion officer got into a M2 gun and shot me even though he surrendered. Was he faking it? I don't think he was. The other battallion officer surrendered too, but he didn't come with me whem I toggled "follow" on.

The last comment that I have is that it seems like that the enemy soldiers get killed when they surrender and you order them not to follow you. In the south of the town I had two POWs waiting for me to follow me. The problem was that they weren't there in the end when I was looking for them. Neither of the POWs seemed to be alive. Only the battallion officer was alive, the problem was that he didn't move. Pretty strange, do the enemy soldiers shoot the POWs?

I don't know of anything else that I should mention, other than that I like your intro / outro and the whole mission. It's a mission concept that I like and there's only some problems with the POW script if you ask me.

[Tyger]

I'll take a look into it.

I'm using General Barron's AI Surrender script(s) and they work fairly well overall. What I have noticed is that if you use the Take POW Captive action before they have finished their surrender animation they tend not to move.  

To begin with I'd like it if I get more control over the captives... So I'd like it if there's an option for me to let two of my soldiers wait in the back of the town with the POWs.

If you halt the POWs, then send two of your men to move to positions near the POWs, then they wont run away. You only need any group member to be within something like 100 or 200m. I'll see what I can do, though.

The last comment that I have is that it seems like that the enemy soldiers get killed when they surrender and you order them not to follow you.

The way the scripts handle this is to make the captives join a west group. They still have setCaptive enabled, so its just that they seem to get in the way. Not sure how to fix this. If you have a suggestion/something you'd like to see just post it.

I don't know of anything else that I should mention, other than that I like your intro / outro and the whole mission. It's a mission concept that I like

Thanks mate. Glad you like it

[Tyger]

When you say "more control over the POWs", would you want something like an Extract Current POWs action?

This would mean if you have three POWs right now, and you don't want to deal with them, you could withdraw to another area and a helo would arrive to take them out.

[Cheetah]

An "Extract Current POWs" action would be good, but it doesn't have to be that complicated. Just an option / action to make my life easier for the POW guarding.
When I played it I lost all of my POWs, because I didn't know that I had to keep a soldier in its vicinity. So or a good description what to do with the POWs (could be that I missed this part of the briefing) or an action that makes life easier for the player. Like the action you mentioned, the "extraction" or the POWs.

Hope you get what I mean.

[Tyger]

Yup, understand what you mean quite well.

Thanks for the suggestions. I might not include it in this next and hopefully "final" release, but I will include it in future updates and versions.

 

[Tyger]

Thanks to you all for the help. My final version will be submitted to the Missions Depot here shortly.

Edit: This mission has been reviewed, it can be found with current links to addons in the Missions Depot.