Realistic Weapons

[ghillisniper_270]

Here's the cheese, I am not very experienced when it comes to OFP editing.  I've been working on it for just over three years and I am way behind still.  However, I am a bit of a gun nut, and am fairly experienced with firearms in the real world.  My favorite passtime is actually researching, shooting, modifying, and looking at firearms.  Although I have downloaded some really amazing and realistic weapons addons recently, I still notice a few mistakes that seem to bug me.  I figured I'd share them and if noone cares, noone cares.

Okay, here we go.  Hope noone gets offended or anything.

First, all those M16A1's out there should not have a forward assist (the "bump" on the right side just under the back of the carry handle) and should not have selective fire.  I'm 99.9% sure that no single M16A1 ever had these features.

Second, you can't silence a high powered rifle.  The bullet is going supersonic and breaks the sound barrier; therefore, while suppression is possible, silencing is not and there will still be noise.  (the only obvious "breakage" of this rule was the M82 that sounded like a H&K MP5SD6)

Third, Shotguns, shotguns, shotguns.  I'd rather carry a single shot .410 that works 1/2 the time into battle than any of the shotties I've downloaded for OFP.  The only way to kill someone is to stick the weapon to their chest and squeeze one off.  I think this might be a game engine problem or something (I honestly don't know about that!), because I've noticed the way OFP shotguns work is to use about 10 bullets and shoot them in succession.  I don't know, but it kind of sucks.  I'm not trying to bash anyone who might have made one of these weapons, cause I know there are limitations, but if someone can figure out a way to make one of these work realistically, you'd be my hero!

Okay, let's see?  The anti-material rifles (e.g. M82 "light fifty") should not take 2 clips to disable a track.  I think this may be another OFP problem, and not a editor problem.  Again, anyone who makes some shot placement specific scripts would be YODA!  I have to confess, I have never shot a .50, but they are designed to be any combination of: armor piercing, incendiary, or a number of other bullet types.  They can punch through armor, and actually explode in cetain situations.

Other than that, make sure your sights look realistic (get a real weapon and look at it), as well as the other parts of the weapon (bolt, bolt handle, muzzle break/flash suppressor, handguard, buttstock, etc.).  I know this is knit-picky, but I found an SKS that used the OFP AK sight picture.  I own an SKS, and have shot an AK-47 plenty of times, and as far as the front sight post and cover go, they are nothing alike.  Also, the original SKS with the box mag typically had blade bayonets and not spikes.  The bayonet will not work with anything attached to the muzzle (muzzle breaks, flash suppressors).

Okay, finally, on handguns especially, make the slide actually move.  I love the beretta 92 models, the 1911, so on and son on.  When I fire them; however, and nothing on the gun moves, it takes away from the "mood".

Well, I hope I haven't pissed anyone off.  This is probably pretty pointless, but I'm extremely anal when it comes to realism of firearms (My friends and I annoyingly count shots from guns in movies and call b/s when they shoot too many times).  Take this all as constructive critisizm/general ideas.

Thanks OFP community, your addons, scripts, missions, and tutorials have made my OFP playability infinantly better, and my editing skills go from below zero, to fair!  (I still suck, but I've learned alot.)  You all are my electronic heros!

GHILLISNIPER_270

[greg147]

I'd have to agree with the bit about the sights. I don't know why, but I always use guns with realistic looking sights more than ones with original BIS ones.
Like these for example.
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=7926
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=6859

Your last 2 points are summed up by this great pistol, probebly the best out there right now.  

http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=8173

[AHMzzz]

Hi ghillisniper_270:

yeah I will have to agree with all what you have said, for me using a more realistic feeling gun addon in a mission can mean the difference between a good mission and a bad one.

However, I am kind of surprised you did not mention anything about the weapons sounds, I addmit the only weapon I have heard being fired in real life in front of me is an AK-47 but still I can tell that most of the sounds on weapons in addons are not very accurate.

I hope sombody can make good sounding weapons addon one day.

[ghillisniper_270]

I do agree with the sound thing, but it is pretty much impossible to get the sound that realistic, since the main part of the sound that get you in real life is the pressure wave.  If you've ever video taped a gun shooting, it is very mild compared to how it sounds in life.  My SKS will make the shooters ear opposite the trigger hand go almost numb!  .45 handguns are even louder typically, not to mention high powered rifles like 30.06, .270, 30/30, or even magnums.

So, I do agree.  I just think it's hard to simulate that "pressure thump" you get in real life!

Later.

[ghillisniper_270]

Also, Greg147, those are great sight pics.  Thanks.  The 1911 is awesome as well.  I think that locking the bolt/slide back on weapons when they are out of ammo is possibly the greatest invention since ground beef!

[Dubieman]

Of course I agree with mostly everything you said, but if you ever try your hand at addon making, I'm no good myself, it's pretty hard to make good weapons. Plus some people don't have access to them, even with pics on the net.

While many BIS weapons have been modded, you'll usually find the best looking guns in big packs like FDF, Frenchpoint, MARPAT, etc... I admit also that SEBNAM2's guns may not be the best of the best, but that mod is very old and still is very strong, I personally don't care much if my M16A1 does have single and auto, the whole atmosphere of the pack does it for me.
I'm sure dmakatra would agree on that, being an avid lover of SEBNAM2.

[ghillisniper_270]

Once again, I agree and disagree!  I, too, suck at creating addons (by that I mean that I can't even begin to figure out Oxygen).  I don't mean to sound like a hypocrit or anything.

Anyhow, I think OFP is the most realistic "feeling" game I've ever played.  You can go anywhere, get in almost any vehicle. . . it's great.  That realism should extend as far as possible.  In my humble opinion, that should include cars, guns, planes, units, actions, everything.  That's my only real point, I guess.

Well, now I'm sounding redundant and defensive, so I'll stop.  Thanks for the interest, everybody!

[Dubieman]

Well anyways, seeing as lazyiness and the missing feeling of having to do better rules the day, most things OFP will not be totally realistic, like some not so well made addons. I'm not talking about teams like FDF or BAS, those addons kick ass and are pretty real and nice looking.

ghilliesniper, have you checked out ECP and the INQ weapon pack plugin for it that adds some nice weapons/sounds? Not sure if its retectured BIS weapons, but they're better or something....

ECP alone is worth it.

[ghillisniper_270]

I haven't run across that download yet.  I will have to say that the BAS and JAM units have really good weapons.  I downloaded a marine assault pack by Suchey, Earl, Tact, and Jocko FLocko (sorry, I have downloaded so much and am so disorganized I don't know the official name).  It was required by the Flash FX mod.

Anyhow, the weapons in that are also subperb (sp?).  The units also do some cool stuff, and spent casings remain on the ground for awhile.  Now to get a "get burned by a hot casing from your buddy's gun" script!

So, from a super detail oriented gun freak, download BAS, JAM, or that other one NOW!  Those, I know, are very worth it.  

I will try to find the ECM or whatever that was you said and try it out.

[Planck]

ECP is on this site.......here:

http://www.ofpec.com/editors/ecfg/


Planck

[Kyle Sarnik]

Yes the M16A1 has a foward assist, and it does have a single fire mode.

As for shotguns, I agree, thats why all shotguns I make are scripted to create a buckshot effect:

http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=8288

It will be released soon....

[ghillisniper_270]

I'm not sure how that pic prooves that the A1 had forward assist?  The A1 was the first M16, and it was not forseen that the gun would jam, or that soldiers would hold the trigger down and empty a mag in no time at all.  Therefore, the forward assist was not even thought of, and the full auto was thought to be sufficient.

When the rifle was tested in battle (Vietnam), it was found that the gun jammed, so the weapon was upgraded to include the forward assist.  Furthermore, many soldiers held the trigger down, wasting all their ammo on nothing, and kept the trigger down not realizing they were even out of ammo while the battle was raging.  Therefore, the selective fire was added.

Remember that when Eugene Stoner's idea for a rifle was realized, the world of automatic assault rifles was brand new.  The machine pistols and heavy machine guns were basically it for years, along with guns like the BAR.  Then you have the German STG-44, the godfather of all assault rifles, to start the wheels rolling for automatic rifles.

I'll go ahead and recheck all my information, because I don't want to lead people the wrong direction.  I am pretty solidly sure that the first M16's did not have these features, although the rifles were upgraded during Vietnam, so depending on the date of your OFP mission your rifles may be accurate and may not.

[STGN]

I'm not sure how that pic prooves that the A1 had forward assist?  The A1 was the first M16, and it was not forseen that the gun would jam, or that soldiers would hold the trigger down and empty a mag in no time at all.  Therefore, the forward assist was not even thought of, and the full auto was thought to be sufficient.

When the rifle was tested in battle (Vietnam), it was found that the gun jammed, so the weapon was upgraded to include the forward assist.  Furthermore, many soldiers held the trigger down, wasting all their ammo on nothing, and kept the trigger down not realizing they were even out of ammo while the battle was raging.  Therefore, the selective fire was added.

Remember that when Eugene Stoner's idea for a rifle was realized, the world of automatic assault rifles was brand new.  The machine pistols and heavy machine guns were basically it for years, along with guns like the BAR.  Then you have the German STG-44, the godfather of all assault rifles, to start the wheels rolling for automatic rifles.

I'll go ahead and recheck all my information, because I don't want to lead people the wrong direction.  I am pretty solidly sure that the first M16's did not have these features, although the rifles were upgraded during Vietnam, so depending on the date of your OFP mission your rifles may be accurate and may not.

Well the M16A1 was not the first, that was pure and simply the M16 or AR15 you are right that it did not have a forward assist,  M16 Advanced 1(M16A1) did have the forward assist like Kyle Sarnik's picture shows, and that is a M16A1(or a clone) it has a A1 lower, A1 upper, old buttstock, old handguards and old pistolgrip.

STGN

[ghillisniper_270]

Okay, I'll buy that.  I'm still not totally sold on the M16A1, cause I'm seeing alot of contradictory information on them, but I reckon I can see how I'm wrong on that one.  That takes alot for me to say, cause as I've probably mentioned, I consider myself to be pretty "gunsmart".  Anyhow, I'll get with my other "expert" friend and we'll see if we can't decide what's what!  

Thanks for the replies!

[ghillisniper_270]

Okay, I'm taking back most everything I said about me being wrong.  I just sat down with PFC Joshua Lawrence (my buddy from the something something something NBC unit, and m16/ar guru) to go over some things.  The M16 A1 had selective fire (I WAS wrong about that) but ONLY had safe, single, full auto (no burst, which I WAS right about).  It also had NO forward assist, and NO brass deflector.  On most A1's, the flash suppressor was a prong and not a birdcage (the prong pulled up pieces of dirt when contact was made with the ground).  

As for that picture, it is apparently an strange A2 upper because it has the forward assist but not the brass deflector.  

Now, if I can get some pics on here (I may not be able to) I'll show some differences.  If I can't, go to www.gunbroker.com (the best site in the world, where I bought my SKS from) and search for "colt ar" and "colt sp1" and look for the pictures.  (the sp1 is the civilian a1)