(Review Completed) [SP] Un-Impossible Mission

[macguba]

Ah yes, now that's what I need.    

BETTER is not very different from WORKS:  hints commented, hint delays removed, that last point you mentioned fixed, one or two other details.

I'm not that thrilled about having a killzone effect at all.   I choose 1760 very carefully (as you would expect  ) to exclude the village in the west and the base in the east, both likely trouble spots, but include all enemy start positions excep the roadblock crew, who have waypoints to bring them in anyway.    The Abrams loitering area can't be in the death zone in case the last 3 loons is a fully operational tank.    (Highly unlikely I know)    I'd like to make the support group start safe too, but that's less important.

The thing about this script is, a little like the Outros, most people will never need it.  I mean the ones who get to the finish - Sneaker and Planck didn't have any problems and they were still working off the old trigger system.    The script itself is a backup, and the killzone is a backup to the backup.

What I will do is look at re-centering the zone.     The top of the Hill is not in the middle of the relevant area, so I might be able to make it a bit smaller if it's around the right centre.

[THobson]

Just saw your latest post - we must have been posting about the same time.  Well I have learned a lot more from your answers than I helped you.  Thanks.  I should have remembered from the "There are 1 enemy loons remaining" that loons in vehicles don't get picked up by the trigger.

Now that is a very impressive spot.

Actually not really, I know the sort of mistakes I make and so I have learned where to look.  I saw you had fixed it anyway in the latest version.

[THobson]

The killzone thing was just a thought, as you say a back up to a back up.  I know Planck and Sneaker had no problem - but I did and you cannot imagine how pissed off I was when it happened.  All worn off now by the way.

[macguba]

I've changed 1760 to 1400.   That's really as small as possible - the constraints are the tank guard waypoint in the west and the snipers/infantry to the east and NE of the old base.   I'd forgotten that the support group have a waypoint that brings them into the main area.

I know what its like when a mission doesn't end after just an hour of play, so what it's like after 20... well, I'd rather not know.   Was most impressed by your forebearance.

Actually, reading back through my last post, most of it was stuff I learned myself (the hard way) while making this script.

[THobson]

A few random over-night thoughts (not related to any posts that I might not yet have read):

Point hunt:
"Wait a moment…" looks like you are relying on OFP default settings.  "Don't go away…" or something similar would show you are not.

Uphill.sqs:
Section2:

Code: [Select]

"unAssignVehicle _x" forEach units _group
units _group orderGetIn false
units _group allowGetIn false_group comes from

Code: [Select]

_group = group _kand _k comes from

Code: [Select]

_k = _upList select _iSo _k could be a vehicle.  What would _group be in that case?  Would it include all units in the vehicle?  I think not from our discussion yesterday evening.  In which case should the three lines at the top of this point refer explicitly to the units in the vehicle and not just to the vehicle itself?


Unlikely - but possible:
What happens if a Cobra is still alive at this time?  Will setfuel 0 (Section2) cause it to crash?  Will it even get to that point in the script in a sensible time?  (If it is the last unit alive it will be checked every 10 seconds to see if it is <= 700 from the flag, only if it is will there be any attempt to get the crew out.  How far will it fly in 10 seconds? ).  Edit:  actually it will probably get caught by the code fairly quickly - but what about the fuel?.

You might want either to have some code that deals explicitly with a Cobra, or exclude it from all the code except:  move getPos flag1

Though I can now see a problem with this last option: if the player has run out of AA, or can't be bothered to trek around collecting more the mission will not end.  Better I think is to have code that safely gets the crew out of the chopper.

Other:
I still think you are being too generous to BIS in assuming that ‘loose' is not a spelling mistake.  I will not mention it again, promise. Unless someone else does!

[macguba]

Point hunt:
"Wait a moment…" looks like you are relying on OFP default settings.  "Don't go away…" or something similar would show you are not.

Thundering chamberpots!   Good thinking Batman!   Which is best/least bad

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_group comes from
Code:_group = group _k

and _k comes from
Code:_k = _upList select _i
So _k could be a vehicle.  What would _group be in that case?  Would it include all units in the vehicle?

_k can indeed be a vehicle.    _group works just fine, it grabs the group of the vehicle.     It does not grab anybody in cargo who is in a different group.   I don't know what would happen if, say, the vehicle the driver and commander were in different groups, but that doesn't arise here.    Nor do I know what would happen if the vehicle had started empty and the crew been moved in, but again it doesn't arise.   As it stands it works for this mission and, since I don't actually like scripting, making it generally applicable is not a priority.   ;D

Unlikely - but possible:
What happens if a Cobra is still alive at this time?  

Hadn't really thought of that, will look into it.   When I  tested it with Cobras yesterday the crew turned up running up the mountain ok, or died in the crash I suppose.   Anyway I placed Cobras at various distances and they never caused a problem.

I still think you are being too generous to BIS in assuming that ‘loose' is not a spelling mistake.

I remain convinced that they meant loose, not lose.    You could easily make a mission in which the loose ending was a win and the numbered endings were lose.    (For example, destroy any one of half a dozen widely scattered scuds for a win:  get captured, lose your squad, run out of time for a lose.)    In fact, since the loose ending has no debriefing text, you wouldn't actually do that.     That's another reason why I don't think it's lose:  they would have had debriefing text.     I feel loose is kinda meant as a cockup ending, one that you are not really supposed to get.   Although the Outro thing argues against that.     We could ask on the official forums I suppose.  

[THobson]

The line that puzzles me is:

Code: [Select]

"unAssignVehicle _x" forEach units _groupIf _group is a vehicle does this unassign the crew?  I am not at home so I can't test it.

We could ask on the official forums I suppose.

Maybe not.  

[macguba]

Units which are vehicles are confusing things in OFP.   What is the unit?  Is it the commander, the vehicle, or what?   I don't honestly know, and I think it changes depending on the context anyway.    

I suspect _k is actually the vehicle comander, for example the driver in a jeep/mg.    If you assume that then everything makes sense.    Possibly.   _group is never a vehicle.

In this particular case yes, the crew of all vehicles in the group jump out.   Or rather, everybody in the group jumps out of the vehicle he happens to be in.   Loons in cargo also jump out, provided they are part of _group.    If they are in their own group they stay put, which is why there is that cargo bit in section 1.   It gets the cargo lot out, while leaving the actual crew in so they can continue to use the vehicle.   The command crew is confusing, it returns everybody in the vehicle including all cargo.

I've changed the hint at the end so it says "There are x enemy loons/vehicles remaining", which will hopefully give a clue as to why the number sometimes goes up.

[THobson]

Which is best/least bad

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Yours is a sense of humour I appreciate but cannot replicate.  You choose.  I would comment that the last one seems too much like it has been system generated to get you any credit.  If it were me I would go for something like "Don't go away…".  It is clearly not system generated and works for any situation, but there again I can be a boring old fart at times.  I would not have referred to needing a tissue for example.

In this particular case yes, the crew of all vehicles in the group jump out.

Well the acid test is do they all get out and as they do then it works.  I think I can learn a lot by looking at this all in more detail when I have the time.

[THobson]

Just curious.  Why go through all the business with _seed and _base to generate a random number between 0 and 22?  Would _base = random 22 not be just as good?

[macguba]

No.  At least I don't think so.   The generation of the random number _base is complex because the bounds of _base vary depending on what _startCount is.    

To understand what's going on, test some values of _startCount.   For example, if it is 16, you go to section1 when the number is reduced to between 12 and 14.   If it is 32, you go to section1 when it is reduced to between 16 and 20.  

This is necessary because the number of loons remaining at that point can vary between 8 (Planck) and 104 or whatever it was (Sneaker).    The moment at which they all start up the hill should vary depening on that number:  if you start high, at 100, you don't want to chase them down to 11 before they start running up the hill: 30 is much better.    But if you start with 25, you do want some time searching the map - checking the places you haven't been to yet and so on - before they start up the hill.  

If it is below 11 then it is of course immediate, which is a regrettable weakness.    That number (11) is not entirely random, though it is impressionistic.

PS - please send my royalty fee for your sig line to the usual account.    ;D

[THobson]

I think I will simulate it.  It looks to me like whatever startCount is, _base will always be between 0 and 22, though I imagine the shape could be strange.

Edit:  I am begining to see.  Did you dream this up or was there an algorithm you had in mind?

PS - please send my royalty fee for your sig line to the usual account

Oh dear - am I commiting plagarism?  I will change it.

[THobson]

Loon count necessary to go to Section1

Below the Blue line will go straight to Section1
Above the Magenta line will not go to Section1
Between the lines it will depend on the random number generated during each iteration.

Both lines remain flat for StartCount > 81

[THobson]

Kills necessary to go to Section1

Fewer kills than the blue line and will not go to Section1
More kills than the magenta line will certainly goto Section1
Between the lines it will depend on the random number generated during each iteration

[THobson]

You are right (of course).  It is not the same as _base = random 22