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Author Topic: NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI  (Read 5500 times)

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DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #15 on: 24 Apr 2004, 13:18:58 »
Sounds good :D
I'll try and redownload O2 now.. See if that helps..

I think the errors etc started when I tried to run O2 without OFP installed... Does that bugger anything up?
- Ben

Grendel

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #16 on: 24 Apr 2004, 18:28:35 »
If I remember, the buldozer viewer needs OFP installed and the original disk in the drive...But I'm certainly out of my element giving advice about o2.

-Grendel

DBR_ONIX

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #17 on: 27 Apr 2004, 17:06:42 »
I redownloaded O2 (Lost the old install file.. Buldozer was there though)
And it works fine :)
Only old version of O2 need the disc (The newer ones look for a registery entery)

I'll start soon :)

Hmm, y'know how it's a modified barret.. Why not remake a existing barret? :)
- Ben

Grendel

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #18 on: 27 Apr 2004, 17:54:08 »
Quote
Hmm, y'know how it's a modified barret.. Why not remake a existing barret?
Precisely! ;D  All one would need to do is cut the barrel length, make it slightly thicker, widen the muzzle brake, and beef up the reciever's fore-end a little to accomadate the two recoil springs (reference the picture of a side by side comparison in the article linked to above).  I'm sure someone who is familiar with O2 could do this in a very short period of time.  

Additionally, for the damage value of the ammunition, the 30mm AP round fired by the VIT Pack's BMP-3s would be the perfect reference point as it triggers the "hit" EH of every ground unit short of a MBT (I would tweak it slightly so it would activate a chopper's "hit" EH as well).  I am guessing that you could find the VIT Pack values by de-PBOing the files and look at the config.cpp.  Ideally, the round should have the damage potential of the AP round, but also be explosive like the HE round (this way the round explodes regardless of hitting dirt or an object).  It is helpfull to think of this rifle as an accurized semi-automatic long range grenade launcher.

To further enhance play-balancing issues (and prevent this from becoming an uber-weapon), I would tweak the recoil values to mimic the .50 cal AW-50 that Smith did.  It pretty much requires the shooter to be prone if you want to have the rifle return close to target after recoil.  You can still shoot it standing or crouched, but if you do you end up looking at the sky after every shot, and makes follow up shots a royal be-yatch.  Also, the rifle will only hold 5 rounds at a time (4 in mag, 1 in chamber).  

I will probably attempt to do all this (ya gotta start somewhere), although as it will be my first forray into addon editing, it could take forever.  So if anyone with experience (Ben  :)) can work on this, I'm sure the OFP commuinity would appreciate it immensely!

-Grendel

DBR_ONIX

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #19 on: 27 Apr 2004, 19:36:16 »
Heheh, less work for me! :P

All sounds good though :)

I should have the new weapon model by tommorow

What's happened to the bipod idea?
What about having it able to be fired crouched etc, but still have the bipod?
Like a mounter MG (Configed as one), that has less recoil that every other way(Standing)

Any Barret you can suggest for modifying?
- Ben

Grendel

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #20 on: 28 Apr 2004, 18:43:53 »
The bipod only/mg configuration should definitely be reserved for weapons like the NTW-20, which are not man-portable or possible to fire off-hand.

The 25mm Payload Rifle "only" ;) weighs 30.5 pounds, which is comparable to a GPMG like the M-240B which weighs about 22 pounds empty.  Not fun to lug around by any means, but definitely do-able.  Also, it is theoreticaly possible to fire off-hand (although it would be extremely uncomfortable due to much less body mass being involved in soaking up recoil).  Thus IMHO, it should be configured as a "normal" rifle-type weapon, but with massive recoil in the crouched and standing positions.  In the prone, I would configure the recoil to be signifigant enought to put the shooter off target after each shot, requiring adjustment of aim (this is actually realistic for just about any high powered rifle fired with optics, and is one of the the main reasons snipers require a spotter {an issue addressed in my soon to be released MOD BTW}).  I would definitely model all sniper type weapons with bipods extended (a nit pick I have with some rifle models out there).

I will look for a suitable pre-existing Barrett out there with good textures and accurate modeling, and naturaly I'll ask the author for permission to modify his files.  This should signifiganly cut development time.  

More on round configuration:  The 25mm round does most of it's work through the armour penetrating HEAT warhead, not sheer kenetic energy (actually much more efficient and easier on the shooter in terms of recoil and weapon system size and weight).  Thus the round should have a lower velocity and more pronounced arc than, say, a .50 cal.  Ballistic data on the 25mm is not forthcomming so In my approxamation I would say it should have ballistics (for game purposes) similar to the JAM 7,62mm SD round.  This will also help in terms of play balancing and make the player have to consider trade offs/pros and cons when chosing it over a HTI rifle with higher velocity and less arc (higher hit probability) for instance.  Giving the player distinctly different options to achieve a task helps to immerse them into the game world, and is very critical to replayability and such.  The 25mm would have the following advantages:

Man-Portable and highly mobile, larger magazine capacity, consistent armor penetration regardless of range, signifigant indirect damage capability for soft targets

Disadvantages: Higher learning curve due to more pronounced trajectory and lower velocity would make engaging moving targets very difficult.

The NTW-20 advantages:

Two ammo types increase flexibility/lethality; AP (slightly more raw direct damage than the 25mm, but no indirect, and increased chance of injuring crew due to spalling) and HE (less direct/indirect damage than the 25mm), High velocity increases hit probability.  Definitely the "cool factor" :)

Disadvantages: Two-man weapon sytstem taking longer to deploy, Fairly rigidly emplaced once positioned, lower magazine capacity.

Well if you waded through all this... thanks! I tend to be a bit detailed about this stuff ;)

-Grendel

BTW, finally downloaded PBO decrypt/makePBO and played around with a Barrett.  After some experimentation, the ideal damage value for HTI ammo is as such:
25mm HEAT:
Code: [Select]
hit=175;
indirectHit=50;
indirectHitRange=5.000000;
explosive=1;

20mm AP
Code: [Select]
hit=225;
20mm HE
Code: [Select]
hit=100;
indirectHit=25;
indirectHitRange=2.500000;
explosive=1;

These values seem to be pretty balanced, taking 2-3 shots of "25mm" to disable an APC (without any additional scripting trickery).  20mm AP will usually yield a catastrophic kill in 2 shots.  
« Last Edit: 28 Apr 2004, 22:41:22 by Grendel »

DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #21 on: 29 Apr 2004, 21:31:11 »
Quote
Well if you waded through all this... thanks! I tend to be a bit detailed about this stuff ;)
Quote
Yeah, a bit :P

Just to clear a few things up
Are both weapons (I just noticed that we are talking 'bout two, not one :P) the same model of gun with different amo (Thus the different recoil)?

Sorry, just you kinda lost me, as I've not had time to read the last page completly.. Thats what I think I'll do now ::)

Lemme know where I can download the model when you find one, and what changes you need done to it :)
- Ben

Ball Zack

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #22 on: 02 May 2004, 01:31:44 »
Barrett is making a new sniper rifle, the XM-109 Payload rifle.  It's chambered for 25mm and is designed specifically to "engage and destroy armoured targets out to 2000m".  Magazine holds 5 rounds.  Recoil is said to be only slightly higher than the .50cal M-82 thanks to an improved muzzle brake.  Size and weight are also comparable to the M-82.  So once again Barrett still kicks everyones' ass, and America rules.  Oh and did I mention it's semi auto?
« Last Edit: 02 May 2004, 01:32:05 by Ball Zack »

Grendel

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #23 on: 02 May 2004, 06:42:58 »
Ball Zack, thanks for posting the "official" nomenclature of the XM-109! for those just seeing this and not willing to wade through the above posts, refer to the april 20th post (up a bit) for the link to the excellent small arms review article link.

Ben, yeah I guess I wasn't too clear about the fact that the 25mm Payload Rifle and the NTW-20 are completely different weapons and concepts (from a gameplay standpoint).  The 25mm should use the modified barrett model, and the NTW-20 will have to be done up from scratch as the two man carried, assembled as an "emplaced MG" type bipod only rig.  

The only recent Barrett Model I found was Cheeky Monkey's Barrett Pack (strangley, it only had one Barrett and a WA-2000 ???).  I'm no one to judge addon making, but the textures could be a bit better, and it just seems like the model is...disproportionally small (skinny)  in the 1st person view.  I have done lots of hands on with this gun in the real world, and trust me, it seems much "heftier" in real life.  But it is a starting point at least... provided the author doesn't mind giving us permission :).  I found the pack on OFP.info.

-Grendel

DBR_ONIX

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #24 on: 11 May 2004, 18:18:54 »
Downloading the Barret pack
Whats to change?

:)
- Ben
PS, you wanna try emailing the guy?

Grendel

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #25 on: 11 May 2004, 20:28:48 »
Actually, let me look at the barret pack that showed up recently here at OFPEC's addon depot.  Looks promising...My cpu is still down >:( havn't had time at home to mess with it lately.

-Grendel

DBR_ONIX

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #26 on: 12 May 2004, 19:29:33 »
I De-pbo-ed that Monkeys barret pack.. After playing with it a bit, of course :P

It's model it okay, not the most detailed, but still totaly fine/usable
If the barret in OFPEC's addon place is better, use that, if not, the Barret Pack one will be fine (Assuming we get permission)

Oh, the files aren't binarized, so it's really easy to open :)

- Ben

DBR_ONIX

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #27 on: 23 May 2004, 11:53:44 »
Right, I've tried the Long Range Sniper pack on OFPEC
The textures aren't as good as the barret pack
I've not tried de-pboing it (Too busy taking out Guba at at 1km :P I like that weapon :D)
But I know the Barret Pack isn't binarized or anything (I've opened it in O2)

Actrualy.. Scrap what I just said... In the readme of the long range thing ::
"//Using:
You can use any enclosed files from my .PBO if that can help you to create more attracting addons.
Just dont forget me in your credits...
No commercial use...doh!"

Basicly, use what you want, just credit me :)
Only thing is, it's a modified M82.. I think the scope looks bigger, but I can't see anything too different..
Hmm, the pack also comes with the original barret (The standard looking one) that he modified, so I guess we could modify that... Can't remeber what the texures are like on that though

Right, I'll modify that one.. What'da I have to do :)
- Ben

scanger

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #28 on: 09 Jun 2004, 04:12:13 »
i hate to bring threads back up but this i feel is important enough.

the P3D model of the "M82A1 Special Long-Range" is 95% my original Barrett M82A1M

I wasn't even contacted about the use if it....i just saw in the addons depot that it mentioned me so i tried it. The texture job is totally changed and config file well modified too i'll give that, but the model has about 5-6 additions and it's released(complete with muzzle flash bug)

but not only that, my OLD version 1.0 of my barrett is provided with the pack to make the scope work....cos the scope was ODOL and non changeable to an inexperienced modder.
SO basically, people who add this in will now overwrite my Newer version 1.1, which doesn't help my plight at all.

I gave limited permission to use models/textures etc but there are always boundries to copyright, scopes/stocks are one thing, 95% of the gun is something else.
even my firing sound was used.

For this reason I will now be remaking the Barrett M82/M107, I have some neat plans and additions for it, but i'm only getting started on it so  i can't give a timeframe on it....i want it to be as good as it can be...

u can see the ripped apart models here:
http://scanger.turmace.com/downloads/evidence

Scanger
JMG Addons
http://scanger.turmace.com

I have nothing against modders who wish to use my models as reference or to use/modify the original models once i'm contacted first, i don't want to just surf around and find my stuff with somebody elses nametag on it.....crediting is one thing but you should always let the original author know first, my readmes all have email addresses in them.

On my original version 1.0 i used some of FliPeRs textures without asking him...he was unimpressed to say the least and i now understand why, the WHOLE reason for version 1.1 was to totally remove all of FliPeRs material so i don't want 1.0 getting a revamp now.

and as you specified:

Quote
//Using:
You can use any enclosed files from my .PBO if that can help you to create more attracting addons.
Just dont forget me in your credits...
No commercial use...doh!

this quote from the Special Long Range version cannot be followed through given that the model isn't theirs to give away. contact me for the model if needed.
« Last Edit: 09 Jun 2004, 06:37:46 by scanger »

DBR_ONIX

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #29 on: 09 Jun 2004, 19:32:55 »
Uh?
What one was yours? The original one included in with the Long Range pack? The one that was edited

I think he said that he used your model in the readme, and the scope etc

So, can we use your model for the, NTW-20 (Is that the right one?)
 :-*
Heheh


Grendel, you still there? ???

Cya
- Ben