OFP 2 - Dragon Rising

[Artak]

Just saw an ad for Flashpoint 2, Dragon Rising, and brought back my memories of being at OFPEC many years ago.

Speaking of which, has OFPEC drawn any lines yet about possibly supporting OFP 2? Any contacts to Codemasters or is OFPEC "BI only" place?

 

[kju]

Well DR looks like to become a massive fail for people familiar with OFP/arma gaming and modding. 

[Zipper5]

I really hope OFPEC doesn't support DR. DR is nothing like OFP, and I hope that OFPEC doesn't help it abuse that name.

[bedges]

The short story is: the jury's still out.

The longer story is: when DR is released, if the editing Community goes nuts for the capabilites of the game, OFPEC may well support them. However, I believe the consensus is that a separate DR editing center would be set up rather than confuse things on this site.

As far as the politics go, I suspect everyone in the Community knows by now that DR != OFP2 in any real sense, regardless of how Codemasters decide to market it. Either way, OFPEC will continue to support the games created by BI; whether that's an exclusive thing can only be determined after DR's release.

[mathias_eichinger]

I don't know why people here are SO alien towards Codemasters.
After all, OFP2 could turn out to run with less bugs because of the narrower scope of the game.
I think most people play the basic grunt/BlackOp missions most of the time, and this is what OFP2 should deliver, so why not give it a try? It can hardly start off worse than both ArmAs.

A valid point, however is the completely different scripting language that renders all the accumulated knowledge here useless. Which makes sense to create a different DR editing center.
I believe that most of the staff here will stick to what they already know, but what about providing webspace for creative people willing to dig into DR?
I mean this "Nay-you-are-a-CS-COD-clone-player-and-besides-CM-stole-the-name-so-shove-off" attitude is completely ridiculous.

Just my 2 cents.

[Zipper5]

The CM stealing the name part is only a small fraction of my distaste for the game.

• 63 "entities" (I personally think that means individual soldiers) max per map - relies on mass spawning of enemies a'la COD4.
• 2km^2 mission area max
• What appears to be a total of 11 vehicles
• AI that is apparently worse than OFP, ArmA and ArmA II
• Worse physics than OFP, ArmA and ArmA II
• No jets, no civilians

Alas, I won't turn this in to the BI Forums DR discussion thread. And I would fully support the creation of a DR editing center rather than using OFPEC. However, I personally think the game will be dead after 2 months.

[DeanosBeano]

 I would like to think that if Operation flashpoint dragon rising is editable ,OFPEC will find a place for it , if the editor is to use LUA scripting then i for one believe the Maturity and proffesionalism which thrives in this site along with its unrivalled problem solving ,would be fantastic not only for people like the OP who used to enjoy OFP but for new people who will just be setting out in mission editing in OF DR. as i remember it that was the very thing that this site was created for.

 People may hate how codemasters have chosen to USE/Abuse the name but at the end of the day thses sites are about making peoples gaming and editing experience alot more enjoyable and beneficial, its goal is to give people the knowledge to achieve what is possible and educate them in what is not possible , not to become Magic ball readers about a game that has not even been released.


 I would also like to point out that ,for me my memmories of OFP where never focused on how big the island where or whether i could fly a jet over everon .
 My memories where of the waiting in the lobby of Gamespy with 64,000 others waiting to play a game of  capture the flag or Team deathmatch or even Deathmatch. these maps were all i played and they didnt need 500m square maps never mind 2km, even BIS recognise now that these people were essential to the lifespan of ofp and i believe they will build two islands for there next expansion 1 of which will be aimed at people like myself .
  I secretly hope that OF DR will bring back that old crowd , especially the countless number of people who made the missions, BIS have had two attempts now with Arma and Arma2 , i really hope there expansion gets it right and we end up with two games that cater for my kind of gaming.
 
 

[kju]

To get an idea what terms of mission editing and scripting is possible,
read the PC Mission Editor Help File Available For Download.

[DeanosBeano]

 Thanks for the link KJU,
 it looks very nice and user friendly help guide. i already feel myself looking at the commands and wondering about some stuff.
 But damn i told myself  i want to just play now not edit anymore lol.I think its going to be very different and just as fun experimenting as it was in OFP days, i cant see myself being able to resist opening up all the DR files and seeing how it ticks.

 I have it ordered so i guess we all finally see in 5 days just what this game is all about.

 

[kju]

The game is horrible. 

All game files are in 8 MB pack files.
Does not look like to be meant to be modded.
No info out there as well about it. 

[tcp]

If you cut out half the units, half the map, and half the graphics from ArmA2, you'd still have a better game than Dragon Rising.

The only nice features are being able to peek over the top cover, weapons with working FLIR, and AI that hides behind cover and flanks more.

[Binkowski]

A quote from bit-tech's review. Pretty well sums up my opinion.

There are some to whom Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising will still hold promise and for those people we're glad. They'll play it and love the huge selection of vehicles and need for teamwork. Most people though won't get that out of the game though and they'll see it for what it is - a schizophrenic design built over a bland world. Connoisseurs will know that there are better options out there, while fans of regular shooters will be better served by Call of Duty and its ilk.

At the end of the day, if the question is whether Codemasters can replicate the success of the original Operation Flashpoint without the help of Bohemia Interactive Studios then the answer is simple. No.

I was thinking about renting it for my console. But then I realized. That would be enough money wasted. So I don't think I'm going to.

[DeanosBeano]

 thouroughly enjoying it here ,  simply because i havent actually played since ofp ( mod and addon making does that to ya ,ruined the gameplay for me ).
 
 tomorrow i will try my first forray into the mission editor and see if i can create my old favourite ,spec op mission and kill some pesky tanks in a yard after i have sneaked through a wood at night .

 for me its enjoyable because
a. like i said making addons and scripting in arma and arma2 has zapped my ability yo play it.
b. arma always lacked ambience and good atmosphere out of the box, this games sounds are fantastic the narration too.
c. i have a PS3 and an xbox 360 so i can relate to the console port (its as near as i will ever get to elite being on the compatibility list for the 360 i guess.

 oh and i think this

 

At the end of the day, if the question is whether Codemasters can replicate the success of the original Operation Flashpoint without the help of Bohemia Interactive Studios then the answer is simple. No.

 could always become this and still remain true.

 

At the end of the day, if the question is whether Bohemia Interactive can replicate the success of the original Operation Flashpoint without the help of Codemasters then the answer is simple. No.

[tcp]

(insert) the financial backing of (Codemasters)

Will Codemasters support Bohemia so it can make it an amazing game? No, they aren't interested in quality, only a game that is released on schedule, and makes a quick buck. It's beyond me as to how they plan to squeeze more money out of us for the proposed DLC. However, I am glad you're having fun with it. Maybe they just need a little time to release a dedicated server, remove some of the limitations on the PC version, and show us that they care about the content they release by providing adequate support to the game.

[h-]

Ok, let's not turn this thread sour, please.
We don't need to start any bashing here..


On the topic of DR mision editor:
- As the editor is a separate software you know how it goes: in order to test your mission you push the "test mission" button which loads up the game (it can't be running in the background) and once you wanna go back to edit the mission you have to close the game, edit the mission, start up the game again, preview, close the game, edit mission, start up the game again... That is so incredibly infuriating I'm not even going to try to make actual mission with that, checking out some vehicles was tedious enough..
- 63 entity limit at one time (the real OFP had over 3000 btw), and you actually run over that limit before you even realise it. The editor doesn't tell you about it, you find it out when starting up the game to test the mission (*golfclap*)..
- Apparently 20 script limit per mission (eh..?)
- The scripting language is a bit limited, slightly more than a half of the real OFP's commands (DR 260+, OFP:R 400+), there's no math related commands for example. The DR commands focus strickly on controlling the mission events, no room for anything innovative there (from what I can tell).

[DeanosBeano]

 agreed lets not turn it sour ,after all i do ( i suspect others in this thread do too) spend more than 6 hours everyday editing (and dare i say fixing) arma2 still so i aint gonna be a hypocrite and say i am wasting my life lol.

  somewhere deep in the archives here we will find just how hard it was to manipulate CWC when it first arrived as a de,o (0.96 ?), communities today are as vigourous today as they ever were  in my opinion (sadly they are more interested in cheats) but however i do hope it will develop.
 But for me like i said in my previous post , i simply want to be able to play, single player is fine for now just like it was back then, i will eventually make it to MP one day i guess .

 I dont want to ever mod this one  . selfishly or not  so far my OF DR experience as almost been tailored to meet my requirements  .

 But for those that will want to modify it , it seems those  first attempts/ exploaritry steps have begun , oh the memmories . will they fail who knows , but i remember the fun of trying . even the first retexture ( hurst to say it now lol) was like exploring a deep cave for first time) with hex editor.

first  try
http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386067

second update
http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386115

 

[Landdon]

I think it is a good console game.  But then they ported to the PC and sold it as a Bohemia OFP/ARMED ASSAULT/ARMA II killer.  So I feel somewhat cheated, but I don't mind playing by myself.  But it has so many limitations.

[DeanosBeano]

 i am still enjoying playing it , but thats about it. in a way thats all i wanted from it , selfishly i am glad i cant mod it , although the lua scripting is intriguing i must say.
 it fills in a small gap for me, i can start it play it turn it off and it runs smooth . for everything else i have Arma2.

[Barbolani]

[savedbygrace]

I'm sure the development team who constructed DR, stripped OFP down to its bare essentials and built it new again, using the core without Bohemia's engine. Let's face it, Operation Flashpoint is still a remarkable game title and the only thing it needed was better coding and graphics. That's what Codemasters did.

What Bohemia Interactive did was better in my opinion. They not only improved the coding and graphics but they increased the entity count. They also did what I think is the only reason for the large community support, they preserved the use of their old code and mod-ability of their product. Without that mod-ability, OFPEC would have no purpose. That I feel is the primary difference between DR and Arma2. In addition, BIS continues to build on the same structure, releasing further titles and DLC to strengthen their following and not divide it. Operation Arrowhead brought changes and improvements that were needed and should have been released in Arma2 but at least they made everything compatible and continue to do so.

Here is an introduction to the next title in the Operation Flashpoint series: Red River. Enjoy!
 

[Zipper5]

Dragon Rising sucked for most, including myself, but I'm always glad to see a person enjoying a game even if it does suck. Sometimes there's a novelty to something being so bad it's good (not saying that's the case with you, or is it? ). One thing's for sure is that Codemasters don't care about their customers, nor developing any sort of community. Make them dedicate themselves to working on one of their games, they are less willing to buy their next.

I have to hand it to Codemasters. Their marketing department is impressive.

The AI is better thanks to the same smoke and mirrors used in many other games. To have similar results you have to have expert-programmer-level knowledge of how they use their spawning and AI logics, something that so far only templargfx out of their entire community has been able to "master", and that was only after he got help from CM themselves. They never shared that knowledge with the rest of the DR community.

Sorry, I don't think less of you at all, I just think you've been won-over by the aforementioned smoke and mirrors. You aren't the only one.

[Barbolani]

Heh, I respect a lot your opinion Zipper, but I don't understand one thing:

DR Gaming, you enter a house, enemy contact, enemy approaches the house, enemy uses MG and completeley supress you (I mean YOU, not the AI) your AI is stuck too, enemy continues approaching, one minute later the house is surrounded by rifle infantry, you are dead... This is my gaming experience with DR.

You call it "smoke and mirrors"? I just call it a better work... even on only just that part!!!

That kind of thing has never been seen AFAIK withour heavy scripting in BIS games, and what I really want is to see the next BIS title with things like this.

I remember an interesting topic from Wolfrug on this forum... "Making ArmA more "gamey"" maybe that's DR...

EDIT: BTW I've never tried OA... apart from the new campaign, island, graphs whatever, what's new??? Just asking.

[Denz]

Okay confession time I bought DR for both pc and xbox 360 so I certainly contributed to codemaster's abuse of the OFP title. Have to admit I didn't rate the pc version at all and found it worked better on the console but then I was looking for a "grown up" console shooter similar to OFP: Elite and DR didn't exactly give me what I was looking for. The interface worked better with the 360 controller - shame I traded in my pc 360 controller as I wouldn't have minded trying the pc version with it. Did anyone else try that?

Yes, the AI was better but then freedom was constrained (compared to AA2) and I noticed that the AI spawned near wherever you were, yes I understand that is part of a lot of video games "smoke and mirrors" but you shouldn't be able to see that happening on screen.

As for Red River I'll give it a miss on the pc but will have to see about the x360 version.

[lustypooh]

Just read this http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/10671/operation-flashpoint-is-thinking-mans-fps-arma-no-threat

I finally realized why I disliked OFP2 and never finished it. I am not a thinking man.

[h-]

It so rubs me the wrong way they use the name Operation Flashpoint like that. Makes it sound like the original real OFP never even existed.. 

[Zipper5]

To their target market, Dragon Rising is the first OFP. I'm not kidding, I've run into many people quoting "the first Operation Flashpoint" and referring to DR. It's depressing to say the least.

[haroon1992]

This is my honest opinion.

I played ofp dr for some 2-3 hours, and dropped it.
Just because I feel kinda dizzy with it's super-glooming sun, plus I've faced several issues with the "Advanced Control System".(It's too hard for me to spot the enemies, as everything looked like as i was in a blown and white movie)

Though there are times which I love OFP DR better than A2, like the others said, the AI is good.
And sometimes the graphics look even better than ArmA 2 (2nd mission, night time)

And I really liked the way the operators whispered each other. It was more realistic than special opeartors shouting
"5 o'clock Binladin , 100"
with the noisy radio.


Regards,
Haroon1992

[Lenyoga]

I've played OFP for as long as I can remember, and I also played Dragon Rising (yes, to the end).

To me it looks like Codemasters tried to create something between a 'light military simulator' and a Call-of-Duty like first person shooter.

I do not see why they chose Operation Flashpoint as title for this game; it has nothing to do with the original. And it wasn't really good, only some MP missions were fun, some of the technical details were better than in ARMA - the rest was like... you know those films you don't remember after you watched them?

Cheers.