Iraq - The real war

[Jeffro87]

I know...not another Iraq idea, but.....

The war is over,cleanup has begun, you and a partner must rebuild an Iraq town.  
You win by getting the coalition poularity to 100%
(this would need some expert scripting)
there are alot of civilians around,you must cleanup mines and claymores to protect your passing convoys,at the same time ,weed out resistance from civs. most are armed and you cannot tell friend from foe. Plus the resistance will not shoot you while you are facing them. If you shoot innocents,your popularity will scale towards 0 and you loose,the more resistance you get without hurting innocents, and keep your troops safe(ie;low casualties)the scale moves towards 100 and you win.you start at 50%.  You can arrest resistance on command. thought this would be a little more like the real thing.

[Iwesshome]

Sounds like a OFP Simcity... Wonder if it could be pulled off?

[dmakatra]

Sounds really good. But don't mix in any politics in it, if you're playing an american which sees himself the saviour of all good(don't qoute me!)that'll put me off playin it.

[Jeffro87]

I can see the dangers of politics in this area,but war is based on politics,isnt it? Politics get more people killed than anyhting else.

But on the fun of gaming note; I dont see it being a saviour point of view,as you are punished and rewarded for "politicaly correct "actions.
maybe, a choice of coalition being in the setup(like day,night,etc).
plus, i made it a point not to mention any "arab" type add-ons. This more or less puts you in a "political position" as opposed to conventional battle.
i like the hair on your neck up kind of scenario.

I am actually working on a scene(starting) that address's genetic cleansing.
mass murder and war crimes. A reality and motivation for action.

[KJAM]

why dont you make it similar but not the same i.e a post Everon/malden/nogova scenario where you do the same as what you described

[Jeffro87]

due to the scripting nightmare this would create, It would have to be a small map and confined to a village with building add-ons.

I had to scrap an opening scene,as i suck at scripting.

It opens with a firing squad lining up civs(mass murder) for execution.
meanwhile behind tree line is a BAS kiowa doing regular nato recon,and stumbles on crime in progess.
this follows with radio comm with kiowa and base,kiowa calls in two apache or littlebirds or mh-60,couldnt decide(apache tostart) kiowa is ordered not to engage,eventually pilot determins order is unlawful and engages just as "fire"command is given,although offending squad is russian in appearance,i (attempted to) remove insignia,as this kind of crime is cowardly. Of course some civs are saved and hurdles coalitiion into the conflict.  But, i couldnt get anyone to react when i wanted them to, hell they started picking off kiowa. Oh well,maybe its a sign not to dwell on sour subjects.

[Drozdov]

This is just the personal opinion of an anti American, but your idea seems a tad pro-western for my liking. The cutscene idea in particular is a bit twee... really, you have to use more subtlety: give us some respect. Nobody really believes that Americans are good little angels that live to fight for the poor defenceless civilians being massacred by big cowardly Arabs (or commies). This will not make anyone that isn't a Tom Clancy type like your mission, and will make many cease to play it immediately. You might have used Resistance units... they're more generic looking. For this you would also need a shitload of custom Arab faces unless you wanted everyone to look the same, and if you're determined to show everyone what a nasty bunch the Iraqi soldiers are then you would need at least a few female faces (these are probably rare) amongs the teems of murdered civillians.

As an aside, you may be surprised to hear that Saddam Hussein was not particularly interested in 'ethnic cleansing' as you put it. Yes, he murdered large amounts of people, but not because he didn't like their race or religion or whatever; it was rather because they showed signs of rebellion against him. He was a Stalin, not a Hitler.

[Jeffro87]

Drosdov,i respect your opinion,but obviously you didnt read to carefully,although i should have said Iraqi type mission. You'll also notice,i tried not to name a particular group commiting crime. I also mentioned a coalition selection,that would include any available NATO add-on.
Attrocities like these occur quite a bit, and i can assure you,not from americans.
As your American point of view goes? I am a 10th Mountain veteran,and in all my years of training, world domination and oil failed to come up.In fact i must have missed it when i was training to obtain objectives with the least amount of casualties.your on deaf ears with that subject.
In fact,questionable targets at the time,were not Iraq,Afghan etc.
And,once again,our way of life seemed to open the doors to games like these and the ability to run your mouth freely.
Funny,we dont speak russian as a second language,wonder why?

[KJAM]

your from america right? and what is your first language eh.........ENGLISH, there is no recognizeable "American" language, you just copied off someone else........so why dont you just SHUT UP , dont deem yourself superior to anyone and recognise the fact that the opinion came from a sentient being and try.......for one moment to see beyond your own "patriotism", or your own understanding and see the world in fuller perspective

[Sefe]

Could you keep your political opinions out the door in these forums? You all have accepted our rules on signup and you should stick to them if you don't want to face some unpleasant consequences.

KJAM, you are defenitely not in the position to tell anyone to shut up in our forums. The only ones entitled to do so are our moderators and administrators. And turning a political debate (which we don't allow) into a personal attack (which is even worse), is not a very wise move. Continue like that and you'll find yourself outside ofpec sooner as you can say "first language".

[Drozdov]

Okay, this deserves another response Jeffro. Here we go.

Drosdov,i respect your opinion,but obviously you didnt read to carefully,although i should have said Iraqi type mission.

Sorry? What didn't Drozdov read carefully? I don't get your point here. You did say it was an Iraq mission.

Attrocities like these occur quite a bit, and i can assure you,not from americans.

Hmm, explain that to the Korean civilians (SOUTH Koreans I might add, you were fighting FOR them) you massacred in the Korean war of the 50s. Or the thousands of Vietnamese you burned alive with your Napalm. Or all those Iraqi civilians you killed because they were carrying wooden sticks or couldn't understand you when you bawled out "STOP" at your checkpoints. And the ones whose farms you carpet bombed, though you promised you wouldn't. Don't tell me I'm lying... even American soldiers admit all of these events.

I am a 10th Mountain veteran,and in all my years of training, world domination and oil failed to come up

You think they'd be dumb enough to explain that to the regular Joe soldiers? Come on. Heard of the New American Plan for the Century group? I think the words 'world domination' could be applied to their manifesto. I also believe Mr Rumsfeld and Mr Chaney are members of this group? Do correct me if I'm wrong.

In fact i must have missed it when i was training to obtain objectives with the least amount of casualties.your on deaf ears with that subject

Which side were they saying should have minimum casualties? Certainly your normal tactics would lead to minimum casualties amongst the infantry lads (or lasses). "Hey, sir, there's a 80 year old woman with a dog in there firing a cap gun, we're in trouble... better call for 10 helicopters and a few jets just in case". Have toys, will play with them.

In fact,questionable targets at the time,were not Iraq,Afghan etc.

Sorry?  

And,once again,our way of life seemed to open the doors to games like these and the ability to run your mouth freely.

Hah, you think you have freedom of speech? Here's an example... The Dixie Chicks were on concert in Europe (I think), and one of them said that they were "ashamed that the president cam from Texas", insinuating he was a taint on their Texan heritage. When they got back to America they were booed and jeered. They even received death threats. Nobody bought their CDs and many burned the ones they owned already. They were forced to 'apologise'. And you say you have freedom of speech? Well, if that's what that means, I'm glad nobody else does.

Funny,we dont speak russian as a second language,wonder why?

Most Americans couldn't even point to Russia on a map let alone handle speaking the language. Even the ones who can have no reason to speak Russian, any more than they do to speak Greek or Urdu. What's your point here? Oh, and by the way I'm Scottish, not Russian.

Well, that's it for now thought I could go on like this for days. It's time America wakes up and looks at itself. Apologies for being political.

[Sefe]

Drozdov, did you ever bother to read my last post? When people ignore what a moderator says, it's bad enough. But I'm defenitely not amused that you ignore it in the very next post. Do that again and I'll not be as forgiving as I am this time.

Did I make myself clear?

[Drozdov]

I did not ignore your post, I was typing my message when you posted. I can't help that. I'm not the fastest typer in the world (though I'm not that slow either) and I was making sure I said things the way I wanted to.

Edit: At risk of further angering the moderators, I feel I must make a point here. I can accept that both KJAM and me were off-topic (though I don't regard this as a heinous crime) but it seems to me that pro-Americans are freely allowed to express their views. Before I joined OFPEC (when I was looking through the messages to see if anyone had had the same problem as me) I noticed there was a fellow called Ranger who had right-wing guff in his signature, something like 'A Liberal is someone who feels he owes a debt to humanity, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money'. Now, I sincerely hope he was forced to change this. In regard to this thread, my first post was more of a warning to Jeffro that his mission idea would be hated by anyone who wasn't a patriotic American. I did not insult him for being so patriotic, I tried to make my criticisms constructive. His response was clearly 'political' and yet he has not been criticised or warned? Is politics only bad when it's criticising America? I'm only asking for fairness here. I will not raise political debates just to get something off my chest. In this case it was to improve the plot which to me seemed to simplistic for moder cynical tastes.

[Jeffro87]

first of all, i did not come here to get political, as i have no ill feelings toward any culture,regardless of beliefs. second of all flaming is in poor taste as all of these games are based on someone vs someone.

[Sefe]

Stop it now.

I don't care about any opinion, pro-American anti-American. As far as I'm concerned as an administrator, it doesn't make a difference to me. Show me one post where I took a position in this debate. Accusing us of being selective in what discussions we allow or not is way off. The ones who know me can tell you that I nor can be accused of being pro-American neither anti-American. Our rule is simple: no politics whatsoever. Period.

Drozdov, as far as your conception of our decisions is concerned, it is wrong and I can't do anything about it. As long as you can keep your political opinion for yourself, visit our site as often as you want. But if you can't, we have to take measures to enforce our forum regulations.

I don't want to see anyone continue this discussion, except it's related to the initial mission idea.

[KTottE]

I would just like to add that if anyone feels offended by anything on OFPEC, be it people's names, avatars, signatures or posts, take it up with the appropriate person and the staff will see about it. We do run a quite large operation here and even though the staff does their job we are only human and can't spot everything.

As for the idea in itself I rather like the idea of a mission that isn't based entirely in shooting other people. What if you make it so that the player is apart of a UN peacekeeping force, and have to help the people rebuild the town?
That should sidestep most if not all of the political issues.

[Drozdov]

The concept isn't too bad but I think it's just too complicated to make and would prove frustrating to do. Anyway, UN soldiers wouldn't really have much to do with rebuilding towns.

[KJAM]

KJAM, you are defenitely not in the position to tell anyone to shut up in our forums. The only ones entitled to do so are our moderators and administrators.

first of all i didnt TELL since when is saying "why dont you shut up" an order or telling someone what to do it was merely a suggestion to prevent flaming, which has so convinently been blamed on me which flaming wasnt my intent

And turning a political debate (which we don't allow) into a personal attack (which is even worse), is not a very wise move. Continue like that and you'll find yourself outside ofpec sooner as you can say "first language".

and again i WASNT "attacking" him personally or anything like that i was just suggesting to him that he pipe down , and respect others opinions which he "said" he respeted and then went on to flame what drozdov said, and critisizing him, which is more of an attack than i supposedly made.
so sorry to the mods FOR:
defending another living beings (Drozdov) beliefs even though they are different to what mine are,
Telling someone to have an open mind instead of being in a closed box
and most of all
for being ME , having my own set of beliefs and being an individual, so if you dont like me being an individual then go ahead ban me, cuz a forum with no respect to individuality, isnt worth the time logging on to.

p.s to be 100% fair, it was Jeffro87 who started the whole politics thing, not anyone else, like i believe that doing anything based on something which is STILL happening  is wrong and like i said in my previou post a while back i think something like this should be redirected to the fictional post-malden islands area

[Sefe]

OK, this is it.

I can't rember the last time when people ignored a moderator's words that persistently. When I (or any other moderator) say "stop this debate now" we mean it. And you can't expect that we'll just sit there and let you behave just like we're not there. Did you perhaps miss this statement?

I don't want to see anyone continue this discussion, except it's related to the initial mission idea.

Or this one?

I would just like to add that if anyone feels offended by anything on OFPEC, be it people's names, avatars, signatures or posts, take it up with the appropriate person and the staff will see about it.

I respect your individuality, but it's our forums, our rules. And I don't know how you can misunderstand the rule "we don't allow any politics in the forums", especially when it just has been pointed out several times. I also have my beliefs and a strong feeling of humanity, yet if you feel the someone is being treated unfair, we have a procedure for that. KTottE is 100% right. You feel offended by another forum member or you think he disrespects our rules? Contact a moderator and he will take care of it. But we will not accept when our members fight back on their own. Because that's exactly how flame wars break out. And at the end that doesn't suit anyone. Drozdov seems to have accepted that, so it's somewhat ridiculous to use him as an excuse for your personal vendetta.

And you can keep your "I didn't tell it I just asked how it would be like"-semantics for yourself. I'm the wrong person for statements like that. You can't be serious that you wanted to prevent the flame war. That's like wanting to extinguish a fire with petrol.

Bottom line: I don't care who started this whole mess and who is defending who. But I do care about who couldn't let up after I told to stop it. And that's the thing I blame you for, not for having your opinions and beliefs. Jeffro87 stopped the debate and finally Drozdov, too. But despite three (!) posts from myself and one from KTottE, you contiued it. If you disagree with my decisions, you're free to complain using our personal messaging system (as a matter of fact, check your PMs). But when you ignore what I say right away you have to expect a reaction.

Topic locked.