(Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies

[XCess]

F***!!!!!!!!  
tried running flashpoint today and it said summit bout invalid serial. Thanks to a reinstall of windows. Saw the disc the other day and there's a fat chunk taken out of it. Anyone wanna lend me a copy? lol

[Mikero]

F***!!!!!!!!  
tried running flashpoint today and it said summit bout invalid serial. Thanks to a reinstall of windows. Saw the disc the other day and there's a fat chunk taken out of it. Anyone wanna lend me a copy? lol

you dont need it. Either and both patch 1.95 and 1.96 remove it's need.

edit:

if you're running Xp consider putting OFP on a separate drive. It, and a few other games cause XP to severely fragment it's disk space. (Virtual mem issue)

[dmakatra]

Seems like a lot has changed... Gonna try this again someday.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[XCess]

I have it patched, and I have it on a seperate drive already. But when i try and start it it says bad serial number. i think it's cos there's no registry entry anymore.. anyone know how to add them manually?

[THobson]

Okay I am back.  Jet lagged as hell and significantly heavier from the wonderful Malaysian food.  No chance of going into the office today - maybe tomorrow.

My first priority is to test Student Pilots offering.  The poor guy put his latest version up sometime ago and no one has looked it yet.

[XCess]

Sent an e-mail to BIS seeing if they can help me getting registry keys back.. if they're helpful then I'll be back with ya soon THobson.

[THobson]

I have just re-read the whole of last week's postings.  Thanks to you all and especially mikero - that was a stunning effort.

mikero:

Inexplicably, one of the residue M2 jeeps with driver-only from Larche is there waiting for me. I shoot before thinking. Was this a defecting soldier?.

 At the mountain lodge - I have never seen that before.  In the previous post you did say:-

load #2 in a now-empty M2 jeep and race for the mountain hideout.

The only explanation I can think of is that the empty M2 jeep still had living crew that re-boarded the vehicle once it was unoccupied.  A long shot but the best I can think of.

Every time I put #8 in an M2 jeep my squad kill him. I get in each position of both jeeps, finally #2 tells me he 'got' the AA guy, I load #8 again, all is ok.

What a pain.  I cannot think of anything I can do about this.

signposts are LYING. They are OUTRIGHT LYING. Jesus! The author is an evil man.

Lol I may well be, but I am not fiddling with the signposts, it is the map.

I am reminded of MacGuba's comment that beta testers rarely report an error of fact. The Larche, and Larche only Abrahms had different characteristics to the Trinite and the Chapoi tank

This is a real puzzle.  I have just used standard units and don't do anything sneaky in the background.  Could it be where the tank is being hit?  I know a satchel in front or behind an Abrams will kill it, but place it to one side it will force the crew out but will not kill it.

Couldn't get squad into any of these vehicles, (a bradley, a vulcan, a Godzilla) they flat refuse.

The state of damage to the armour in for repair at each base is random.  In some cases they will be so damaged the AI will refuse to board.  If you repair them then all should be fine.

I am unhappy about the Godzillas which makes the game fantastic  

I gathered you were unhappy, it was the last bit that puzzled me.

Finally, I do have some contribution in 'ideas', I am building up a list of them, they're staying off this board until others get a word in.

I would like your thoughts as soon as you feel able to put them up.  What I find best is not to react immediately to ideas but to let them soak for a while, so the sooner the better for me.

General Thoughts:  
Reading your story again all at once I am struck by the change of tone.  I did not notice this before when I read them almost as you wrote them.  You got so close to finishing but then gave up when another Abrams turned up and the av/ap mines bit.  Also on v 1.00 Student Pilot gave up on realising the side he was attacking had another Abrams.  This is most definitely not the effect I want to create.  I want it tough and I want people to give in, but not so far into the mission.  I have tried not to do anything that specifically makes it hard or easy, rather I have tried to think of what might be realistic and then just let the player loose.  Perhaps I should modify that a bit and take out some of the Abrams - all thoughts welcome and all opinions valid.

macguba

having the SW standing up made him virtually invisible.    Brilliantly done, however I'm afraid you have to take these guys out of the mission.  You've gone to so much trouble to create the atmosphere and, even aside from the shooting through the fog thing, they spoil it.  Not consistent.    I was also disappointed to see they were both US.  You don't need to be absolutely pedantic about every single pairing being one of each, but we need more mixing and matching.  I'd have made this a Soviet sniper with an M21 and a Yank with a Dragunov - kindred spirits who swapped weapons.

SW=?

having the SW standing up made him virtually invisible.    Brilliantly done

Is this irony I detect?

I have removed both snipers for v1.11.  The view of the campsite from the hillside was just too tempting.  It seemed to shout ‘sniper' at me.  I had done some mixing of weapons but for 1.11 there will be a bit more, somewhere between 10 and 20% of units will have weapons belonging to the other army.

Bodies behind tents:  we don't need theme everywhere,

This was my attempt at being obvious about something subtle - or whatever the phrase was.  I take the point though that it should not look like a cookie cutter has been used.

On the basis of that session this mission may be a fraction too hard.

Well I have taken out the Arudy snipers for v 1.11.  The loons west of Houdan I felt were fair.  One guy on look out, one guy at the lower farm and 2 or 3 walking between the upper farm and the outskirts of Houdan.  The fact that they are all in the same group I think makes their behaviour more realistic.  I have not tried to play the player I just tried to make an environment that is realistic with realistic things happening but as you say it is the obvious approach to Houdan and if the player is going to for the obvious then well…

random ambushes are not easy.  

The location of many of the infantry groups is random, in the sense that that they have S&D/Cycle waypoint combinations that are moved around randomly.  Each camp has only a small squad in permanent residence - ie they don't go off to fight the war they stay there until their base is in desperate need of their help.  Similar pattern to the group W of Houdan, one group some stationary and some on patrol.

Anyway, long way to go yet.  Hope the trip isn't proving too tiresome.

Thanks.  It was more fun than I expected.

Other:
I have slowed down the speed with which the fog changes - I think I have over done it.  The most noticeable feature of the weather is now the rain - and it seems AI can see through this better than the player.  Fog seems to be different, it seems to affect AI and player equally, or at least similarly

My own run through - I was in the mountains knowing that an Abrams and a BMP full of infantry were heading my way.  One time the badly damaged Abrams repaired itself at my repair truck.  Retry.  Next time I got them all but lost 3 of my 4 LAW carrying soldiers in the process.  Decided to press on (a decision I now regret).  I got my fully crewed T80 on to the hill over looking Chapoi.  I crawled into the town and spent an age hiding in houses, sneaking round killing a few loons then hiding again.  I was quite pleased with the behaviour of the baddies, only occasionally would I see a group standing still, but as soon as I started shooting they were after me (and I was using a bizon).  In the end I think Stamenov was the last Southron alive.

I now have an ammo truck and a repair truck just north of La Trinite with the medic (Pavel Ivanov is his name by the way) close by.  I am now heading north with two Abrams each with a gunner and a driver, and a T80 with me as the sole occupant alternating between driver and gunner.  Encounters with enemy infantry do not go well in that we are invariably damaged before we see them, fortunately there are enough of us take them out before returning to La Trinite for repair.  Encounters with enemy armour go less well.  Same pattern as with the infantry, except we don't survive.

[hobson_matt]

OK.. This is the first time I have officially Beta Tested anything, but I have been updated with the progress of this mission so far, so I thought I would throw in my comments.  I am not a great editor myself and so will base the mission mainly on realism and playability.

I have posted this without reading too many of the comments above, played without ECP, in Veteran mode and benchmarked at 4792.

Mission

Starts well, nice atmosphere from the briefing… looked as expected but much darker and more rain.  Used this fjord before in missions, good for starting the mission, but after about 20 seconds realised why I never used it that much.  A mix of sidestep-running and my 3rd can of Budweiser got me up to the top…

I approached the lodge carefully, saw 2 soldiers in the house.  Was not sure what to assume so got as close as I could.. One dropped to the ground, so I killed him, then got the other before he had time to weapon his M16.  Upon entering the house I saw a 3rd soldier on the floor, put 2 bullets in his head and entered the cut scene.

Went outside, shot both soldiers with newly equipped M16, and loaded up on ammo.. Saw the usable jeep, so loaded M16 into it and grabbed another one, filling up on ammo again, I must now have at least 10 mags to help me.  Searched others, didn't want to hang around so nicked bino's off a corpse, ran to the jeep and headed East-North-East out of the town and up the hill.

**PAUSED GAME TO WRITE UP THIS FAR**

A tidy bit of map reading gets me to the lodge, nice cut scenes!

Spend 5 mins mucking about with the weapons to make the most of my arsenal.. If u can call it that..

Hear the radio message, and head for DD46 to get the civvies out, make a mental note to stop by a town to "pick" up some weapons at nearest point.

Got to the civvies easily, I got back in the truck and heard them say to wait until they were aboard.. Unfortunately they did not board the truck, just stood outside, despite the obvious space in the truck.  So I gave n02 the driver spot, and I ran outside the truck back to the lodge, having others made navigation much easier!

Whilst the civvies started to repair the building (and me with one extra), I decided to head near La Trinite to get the 2nd lot..

Got to the end of the hills, and left 5 and 6 to guard the truck whilst the remaining 4 (including me) headed for the 2nd group of civilians.  We got there with no problems, and received the message about Houdan.. After checking the map I got 5 & 6 to board the truck and RV with us on the way to Houdan…  I hid the truck North of Dourdan, crossed the road on foot, and headed South to Houdan.

8 Got the civilians to the lodge and joined me.  I ordered him to go to the hidden truck to wait therefore us to return.

On the way into Houdan I hide my men in the bushes to the East, this way I can sneak round the town alone.  I get into the town and see the undamaged hut, so I head inside.  I get the cut scene with the Russian soldier, (the text did not match the words at one point, when I asked where the traffic was heading)

I now have a decision to make.. I have 9 men, but one is still north of Dourdan.  I could do with getting some better weapons, so I can think about hitting one of the bases.  I save the game and take a breather.. then spend 5 mins checking the map.

I take a break and resume after a few hours.. When I click "Resume" it takes me back to before I was near Dourdan! At least 2 saves ago!  I then click "Retry" and it takes me to Houdan, my latest save  ;D

I head back and RV with the rest of my squad (minus number 8 ). Then go North-West towards Arundy.  I approach from the south, take out 2 snipers (both standing in bushes to the south), then I hit the town.  I get new weapons for my whole squad, and steal the US Truck, then head to the mountain lodge, and tell 8 to RV with us there.  I noticed that the barn with the hidden ammo crate (which I have only just seen!) is floating a few feet up in the air, how strange (see screenshot).  I crawl underneath and load up on pistol ammo, then steal more M16 mags and law's off the US truck.  I now have a relatively well armed squad, no machine gunners and only 2 RPG's, but I do have 2 snipers, and enough ammo to destroy a small island, how convenient.

Now I have a decision, Fuel Bases? Convoys? Main Bases?  Or La Trinite?  It is getting lighter and the fog is lifting, it is now 08:40, and so I decide to head to La Trinite to see what I can play with there.  I approach from the forest to the North-West, leving my guys to the back of the forest.  I see a convoy approach from the North, search the town and leave.  So I head in alone.  I find all the weapons in the centre, and nick the ammo truck, leaving it at the back of the forest with the rest of my guys.  I load up on satchel charges, and an empty bison and lay the charges where I saw the Northern convoy stop.  As I head out the town is searched by a Southern Convoy, just got out in time!  I wait for the Northern guys to come back, and they stop at the same point while their guys get out.  I wait until most are in the town, and I blow the charges.  I then run to the far end of the forest, and get my guys to head South out of the way.  As the weather was lifting I moved in to watch the reaction.  Just as I hoped they were sat beside their destroyed vehicles, just waiting.  After 15 mins the Southern Convoy came back, and saw the Northern guys, and fighting kicked off.  Suddenly I could hear tanks and choppers coming in, so I move back a bit, and pause to write up this far.

All I can say is wow!  Its great to have a "mission" like this.  Its not really a mission though, more of a dynamic campaign, as I feel that I have complete freedom on what to do next.  I have a full squad, 4 silenced weapons, 2 machine gunners, and 3 snipers.  I am ready to hit anything!

The fog and rain really create a fantastic atmosphere, although it has made it quite hard to comment on the realism as I have not really had that many contacts with either side.  I will mention a few possible ideas, although a lot of it may just be down to personal preference:

1) The snipers covering Arundy seemed a bit odd.  It was a relatively quiet place with no obvious reason to have covert cover.  Maybe they were rogues?
2) Something is very funny with the positioning of units, as I mentioned some buildings and vehicles have taken to hovering after I load the game, where some others are sinking.  Any ideas why  

Hope the comments help!

[macguba]

Welcome home matey!

having the SW standing up made him virtually invisible.    Brilliantly done
Is this irony I detect?

Not irony, if it was delibarate it was very well done.    Sad to see them go but its the right thing.    SW = southwest.

The guys above the farm are fair.   I had forgotten, when I wrote the too hard comment, that I deliberately chosen what I thought would/should be the hardest way.    Taking out the Arudy snipers is (in the context of this area of the mission) all that is required I think.   May change my mind later of course.   ;D


@northener, I've only read the first part of your report  since I haven't got to Houdan yet but it seems to me that you've taken to beta testing like a duck to water. :thumbsup:

[THobson]

@northerner

Got to the civvies easily, I got back in the truck and heard them say to wait until they were aboard.. Unfortunately they did not board the truck, just stood outside, despite the obvious space in the truck.

Sorry about that,  I have some stuck GameLogics in v1.10 - now fixed.

text did not match the words at one point, when I asked where the traffic was heading

I checked this so often I would have put money on it not happening.  Thanks.  I will check all the messages again.

When I click "Resume" it takes me back to before I was near Dourdan! At least 2 saves ago!  I then click "Retry" and it takes me to Houdan, my latest save

I have no idea what causes this.  If your run through is anything like mine the initial ‘Resume' will always take you to the same place.  â€˜Retry' and ‘Load' work okay for me though.

Then go North-West towards Arundy.  I approach from the south, take out 2 snipers (both standing in bushes to the south

This is a touch embarrassing.  I grouped the snipers with the small group that patrols the town.  That group is set to Safe and so the snipers stand up!  But that is more than made up for by the fact that if any of the loons on patrol know where you are then so do the snipers.

I noticed that the barn with the hidden ammo crate (which I have only just seen!) is floating a few feet up in the air, how strange (see screenshot).

What a bummer!  v1.00 had problems like this, but not so extreme.  It seems to be caused by the level of terrain detail.  This mission needs to be played at terrain detail set to normal.  I set this in init.sqs and then I keep reminding it every 5 minutes or so in a housekeeping script.  Having seen your screenshot I have experimented a bit.  

The code I use is:
setTerrainGrid 12.5
This sets the mission to normal terrain detail but it does not change the user's settings.  Given your benchmark I suspect you might have your terrain detail set to high.  What I have found is that if the user's settings are for high detail and I then run the code setTerrainGrid 12.5 then the two buildings you show in your screenshot appear to rise up a few feet.  My theory is that constant saving and resuming will keep putting the mission back to high detail and then the housekeeping script re-sets it to normal so lifting the buildings a few feet each time.  If I am right this means I will need to require the player to set his video options to normal - what a pain.  It also means that if you continue as you are you might be able to bring down some choppers by hitting them with a French Barn - I think AA buildings must be a first.

All I can say is wow!  Its great to have a "mission" like this.  Its not really a mission though, more of a dynamic campaign, as I feel that I have complete freedom on what to do next

Glad you like it.

1) The snipers covering Arundy seemed a bit odd.  It was a relatively quiet place with no obvious reason to have covert cover.  Maybe they were rogues?

These snipers are missing from the next version.  
Thanks for your comments and help.  Please let me know how you progress.

@macguba

Welcome home matey!

Thanks.

having the SW standing up made him virtually invisible.    Brilliantly done
Is this irony I detect?
Not irony, if it was delibarate it was very well done.

I originally had them lying down in a bush each.  It took ages to get them just right, then I go and group them with some loons that are patrolling in SAFE mode so they stand up.  I thought that would have made them more visible - hence my reference to irony.

EDIT:

I should not have claimed that it was a mistake.  I have just checked the snipers in my readonly version of 1.10.  Having the snipers stand up in a bush is an absolutely stunning way to hide them.  Even knowing where they were I could not see them if I was more than a few feet away.  I must be honest - this was a happy accident.  One I will repeat deliberately in future.

[XCess]

YEEEEESS!!! THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU!!! I'll be playing the mission in a couple of days when I get my replacement disc through from BIS. Yay.  ;D

[THobson]

Excellent

[Mikero]

@Northerner

welcome. Nice piece of writing btw. I shall be pinching some of it.

It's clear this mission is having the same effect on you as most of us, it's very fluid, what you call dynamic, if you ever get into a quiet spot, thinking the mission's gone lame, well,,,, hee hee.

HAW, giggle, snort, snigger....

when this happens, truly, be afraid. At 4792, the tiny amount of lag is your best friend.

what does RV mean please?

[Planck]

Possibly RV = Rendezvous   ;D


Planck

[Mikero]

>comments welcome.

There's a true trory of a French Archeologist who started chipping away inside the great pyramid because it didn't fit his 'idea' of how the maths all worked out.

here are my ideas


Flags:

I do not want 'x' marks the spot. By all means have them in the briefing, do not, hold my hand. Just show them for candy, I'm a 16 y/o with my dad's revolver, twenty something at best. I wouldn't analyze their significance other than they mean death, or, they probably didn't even exist during my flight to the small island. I would use them as the overview pic. Drawing attention to the fact that this wont be Nato vs Russians. I should 'learn' this, just as I learned to never stick around. There are many things i 'learned' and this became thematic of the mission.

Bodies:

cookie cutter is a good description. They need to be splunked elsewhere. But I want more than this. I want a reward for finding them. The all important, often missed, player feedback. I want a voiceover as minimum as i discover them. My view, they are great devices for optional objectives. Le Port eg is a long way away and there's a mysterious roadblock at the Tjunction already. (I know what it's there for at that angle Thob).

A fiction:

Of course it is. And a marvellous bit of inspiration to include it. Adds understated authenticity. I loved this more than anything else, no bull.

Cutscenes:

More please. Much more. Much much much more. Percentage wise they are pitiful in number. There's a balance that needs to be struck, right now it's severely the wrong way. Diversionary optional objectives as bodies are discovered eg.

Savegames:

Imagine, i've just been through hell. I am somewhere safe, licking my wounds, or grieving over the lost Russian in my squad and this idiotic 'there you are, a reward'. Oh, thank you, thank you so much. Why didn't I get one when i 'deserved' or 'needed' it.

I'm in the middle of a firefight and this message comes up. Ook?

I want a savegame from destroying each of the marked towns, and so on. It's player feedback. In truth, you are too cute by half. Let me decide how many retries i want. They're not the same as cheatsaves. Don't bother limiting the number at all, OR, put them in as feedback mechanisms.

Cheatsaves:

no-one's mentioned it. If you prevent them, this mission is unplayable. Period. Anyone who says they don't need them on this mission is smoking something illegal.

x4 crippler:

excellent. Make the player learn. Never stick around, especially at x4.

Godzilla:

I enjoyed him in the same vein as never stick around. I would *never* confront one again in this mission. I resent it also, you the author have played unfair. A T80 is a bad enough mongrel as it is, these leviathans make any contact with them unplayable.

AP/AV

I've had my 2 cents. But, putting a safe option isn't the issue for me. My left arm is now dead.

Vehicles:

My brain dead drivers run into walls, boulders, and all. I want a message "we're exhausted #1" but I also need feedback after that msg to either get them out, or keep going.

Goisse:

not good enough by half. I have to have a reward for going that far. I encountered one soldier. (yes, and jeeps). You have to maintain a squad sentry thing in these towns, _despite_ the need to re-inforce elsewhere. the player must have a feedback reward for bothering.

Westrons:

The location of base camp is , well, at worst! perfect.

What happens when I accidentally shoot my Russian? Do the rest of my squad/some of my squad desert? Why can't I learn to defend the west, and civils enter the area, why cant one/ two of them, start replacing my dead medic if I 'learn' to go back to passagne. (repopulating means dead ai can be put in graves and buried from cpu cycles)

airport:

What happens if, sorely tempted, I start executing them, what does my Russian do?

why didn't some of the losers join my squad and fill out my losses? That's not a technical question btw.

why aren't they bolstering me for the last, final, big push south?

Houdan:

wrong. It's too far away, you've pushed me too far south, I will attack chapoi, especially with what Russian tells me.

You need to change this to Dourdan I realise you have a St Louis balance issue.

I need an Airport counter wobble to the Russian's conversation, I need a quest to the airport, to leave me undecided. Add another woman to the pack who tells me this. The one i've got is a token. I want a fleshed out squad of misfits.

Arudy Snipers:

This was 'ok' by me only because they had no direct influence in the Arudy attack (for me). I strayed too far. If you remove them you must replace with marauding troops on the mountain skyline. It must be as it became, a clear distinct warning that south of road was southron. If i went into mountains to get at Chapoi, it would be at my peril, and a choice i had to decide. The sniper effect enhanced my westron safety zone. North mountains were my territory. You enter my space at your peril.


Tough / Too hard:

Yes.

This is a XXX rated hardcore ofp mission. It can only be played by people with an eye patch and 3 teeth missing. My conservative estimate is you would had to have played 100+ missions before this one to have any chance of 'understanding' what tools to use. Mgun vs rpg vs Snipe vs use terrain, vs vehicles. Buildings are both friend and foe. What do black ops really mean. You need to know what chopper + truck + clear skies mean. You especially need to know the differences between rpg/law/gustav and AA. You would not introduce a friend to ofp via this black hole.

It's the strongest malt wiskey out there, you wouldn't dream of diluting such a thing, and can only sip and gasp for breath.

But it is too tough. I met it at Larche, MacGuba at Arudy. All of us at airport / chapoi. The saving grace is that ai wont hunt you to extinction. When you 'learn' this, it's manageable.

I dont know what you can do about the Abrahms godzillas (correction, think I do). They introduce a very unfair element into it. My idea would be to minefield areas, plural. Once war breaks out, these mongrel things destroy themselves. Scenario wise it would make sense that the only safe corridor between north and south is Trinite. I would 'learn' as player that if i chose to use a tank, this is my only route thru. You haven't played the minefiled card anywhere near enough.