(Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies

[Mr.Pibb]

 I can understand what you mean when you say since the beta testing you have felt rushed, especially with the combination of alot of things coming up to address and the inevitable feeling to get it done as to not leave people hanging who are now waiting for the final version. Thats why I said I hope you take your time, because as most modders know from expereince that have actual real jobs and whatnot, pushing too hard can really suck, especially when you just finished an 8 - 10 hour shift to come home and crank out mission mathematics for three more hours as fast as you can. Makes me imagine what a privaledge it must be for those who's job is to work on missions, where they can focus tons of time and energy on their work and even get paid for it too.
 I dont think you should feel pressured, in fact, maybe you should take a vacation? Barbatos maybe? ;D
 My suggestion is if you feel that burned out maybe drop the thing for a little while, come back to it when ya feel the inspiration flowing again. Really neat thing is, even with ofp being pretty old by now heck, you could someday even make a version for sayyyy, VBS1? or even ofp2 if the scripting capabilities are still kept the same. But you probably dont want to even think about that right now .
 
 Anyhow, thanks for your time.

 Pibb

[Mikero]

folks, i'm keen to play this mission, am not keen to wade thru 25 pages to find the latest version. can sum1 point me 2 the right one pls? (1st page says 1.00)

[Fragorl]

folks, i'm keen to play this mission, am not keen to wade thru 25 pages to find the latest version. can sum1 point me 2 the right one pls? (1st page says 1.00)

As far as I know, 1.00 is the latest version; it's great, don't let the 25 pages of comments lead you to think there is anything wrong with it. The next version sounds as though it will have a whole slew(? ;D) of new features that will be even better. Undoubtedly, the new version will be updated on the first page/post (if it's still beta )

[THobson]

Fragori is right.  The only version out for testing is v 1.00 and that can be got from the first post in the thread.

The next version v1.10 should be ready either this weekend or next weekend.  I am out of the country all next week and feel disinclined  to put on a new version just before as I will not be able to repond to comments as they are made.

I am not sure the new version has new features so much as a smoother flow, more credible story a lot of rough edges taken off etc.  There are four new cut scenes (getting the voices is the thing that is delaying release).

It would be good have the new version looked at with fresh eyes as the people who have tested v1.00 know a lot about what is going on and so even subconsciously may make allowances for things that a fresh person would not.  So if you could hold off for say 10 days     If not then the top of this thread is where to get it.

[macguba]

Good timing.    I'm out of the country all next week too.   You're not skiing at Val Thorens by any chance?

[THobson]

If only.  No I am working.  A global meeting in Aix en Provence.  The food and wine will be excellent

[THobson]

[size=10] ****** Version 1.10 ****** [/size]

Link disabled 10 June


Well here is version 1.10.  I think just about every beta tester has made some suggestion that has been included in this version.  Some suggestions I am still thinking about and some I may well have forgotten about.  If you made any suggestions on v1.00 and do not see it here then please don't feel offended,  it may be that I simply overlooked it rather than did not like it (it is a very long thread and it did take a long time to read all the posts again, but there were an awful lot of changes needed to the original version).  If you made a suggestion on v1.00 and you still think it is relevant then please make that suggestion again.


I am particularly interested in comments on anything that strikes you as notable but particularly:
- The new weather model
- Markers turn on, off and change colour correctly
- Objectives become active, set Done and set Failed correctly
- The behaviour of the first group of civilians if Alexi has: 1) a vehicle that is too small for all of them; 2) a vehicle that is large enough for all of them; 3) does not use a vehicle.  
- Visiting important places before the player knows about them
- The intention with this mission is to get the player to a point where they think: "Now what should I do?" and have plenty of options to choose from.  Does it succeed in your view?
- Each side gives up when their leader is dead and they are down to a loon count of 10 or less. What does this feel like?  Too many?  Too few?
- Are there any scenes where the voices don't need to be re-done?
- Any dialogue that is particularly weak
- People doing random things during cut scenes
- I am still not totally happy with the behaviour of the civis at the lodge.


Areas I know I still need to work on:
- Intro - improve
- End scene - improve
- Outro - make new
- Dialogue and voices in cutscenes - improve
- Civis at the Lodge

I have done a lot of testing in the Preview of the mission editor only find that when I save it as a pbo mission and play that, things can be different, especially the behaviour of the characters in the cutscenes.  If you spot anything strange please let me know.

[THobson]

========================== Changes v1.00 to 1.10 =================

---------------------------------- General: ------------------------------------------
Changed the background story line, with consequent changes to the text in the overview, briefing and intro.

Improved the Overview picture.

Made minor changes to the Intro.

Removed early references to the truce, La Trinte and the two sides trading

Removed the hints.

Gave each side a flag, put a flag at each base, each field camp and on the lead vehicle of all vehicle groups.

Removed the infinite save games.  The player now starts with a set number and then gets an additional one every 90 minutes or so.

Changed the convoy and patrol monitoring code so that damage from simple collisions will not prevent them from working.  I believe this might have been the cause for several of the stuck southron convoys detected at La Trinite (I have run a few soak tests and did observe this happening), it certainly was the cause of some of the abandoned, but only slightly damaged, jeeps some of you found.  I believe it is also the reason that SEAL84 found a jeep that had run out of fuel (another jeep in the group was damaged, the crew got out and walked, the jeep SEAL84 found slowed down to wait for them and so ran out of fuel before getting back to base - that is speculation, but I have seen it happen).  Much of this was already dealt with, but I then restructured the scripts to avoid the large savegame bug and inadvertently disabled the relevant pieces of code.

Force setTerrain detail to normal to prevent weird things happening at the lodge

Removed all fires except two (Vigny and the mountain lodge).

Removed the hard to find, and surprising if you do, little groups of tents.

Made some changes to the layout of the field camps so they each look a bit different.

Trashed a few more towns and left evidence around of the criminality and indiscipline of Stamenov's army.

Changed the weather model:  Fog intensity changes more slowly; maximum fog intensity is reduced; Maximum intensity of fog, overcast and rain now reduces as progress is made in the mission.  There will still be bad weather late in the mission, but it will not be quite so bad as at the start.

Lost the two mad women that run up and down the island.  They may yet come back if the mission can bear the load of the extra units and the extra triggers etc. needed to make them interact with the player.

Cause one side to attack the other when the strength of the forces gets significantly out of balance.  They must have a chopper in the air, and they must have a strong force.

Modified the minefield at Saint Marie - does not have infinite mines, the location and depth of the explosions is now more random, and the frequency of explosions depends on the number of loons in the minefield.

and of course I have updated the list of Beta testers!!


----------------------------------------------- Briefing: -----------------------------------------------------
Put a picture of uncle Nikolay in the Briefing to help the player recognise him.

Killing Andropov and Stamenov are now separate objectives, distinct from destroying each side's army.

Improved the sequence of the objectives to be more logical.

Improved the information provided.

Improved the markers used on the map.


----------------------------------------------- Mission: -------------------------------------------------------
Changed the starting location.

Removed the random starting locations

Instead of having to kill all the soldiers when each side gets down to a small number of loons, in one case they surrender, in the other they run away or surrender depending on where they are.

Restructured both bases and the mountain lodge area to be more realistic.

Changed Stamenov's accommodation, changed the way the females with him behave and made his bodyguard behave in a more realistic way

Created an addAction for the empty and damaged armour in each base that will now enable the player to re-arm them.

Reorganised La Trinite.

Reorganised Vigny and enabled the dead bodies there to play a more active part

Changed the mines so that: they can only be placed if you have an appropriate item in your inventory and that item is removed from inventory when you place the mine.  I am indebted to macguba for his code to do this.  I incorporated his ideas into my scripts, the need to ‘re-arm' the player is something I would never have spotted.

Changed the place mine script to prevent a mine being placed when the player is in a vehicle.

Provided a disable mine action.

Removed most of the dead vehicles and wrecks from around La Trinite

Reduced the civi groups from three to two and re-written the method by which the player finds out about each of them and interacts with them, there are now proper cut scenes at each of the civi locations.  Also, any one death of a civilian will now result in a red cross - even if it occurs after you have got them to safety at the lodge mac!

If Alexi kills a civilian he will become a renegade.

Improved the endgame code that gets the loons to the base.

Fixed the bug that sent a base on alert even if a loon was killed by being run over by one of his own trucks.

Changed the waypoints for the attack on the southron base by the northrons to reduce the likelihood of it getting stuck on the way.

Very slightly reduced the strength of the northron group that attacks the southron base.  What was 1xAbrams, 2xT80 and 1xVulcan is now 1xAbrams, 1xT80, 1xT72 and 1xVulcan.

A lot of invisible stuff to streamline the code - fewer scripts and fewer variables to help move the mission away from the large savegame bug.

Removed the NV goggles from the officer in the group that attacks you in Vigny if you hang around after the cut scene.

Strengthened the group that arrives at Vigny after the cutscene to give the player an incentive not to hang around.

Added a new location with cutscene to strengthen the story.

Removed illogicalities if the player visits the game locations in a wrong order (ie before he is told about them).


---------------------------------------------- Cut Scenes: -------------------------------------------------------------
Changed the Vigny cut scene to have two soldiers arriving by foot and also to help explain Tatyana's sudden rush out of the building

Compressed the two scenes at the mountain lodge into one.

Ensured no cutscene would be watched through NV goggles even if the player happens to be wearing them when it starts.

Added four new cutscenes.



========================== Still to do: ==============================
Rework the ‘offshore island' part of the intro.

Rework the final scene.

Improve the dialogue in some of the cutscenes

Get more voice actors

Improve the civis at the lodge


======================== Still thinking about: ======================
Modifying the mines so that if they are damaged they will explode.  This will be more realistic - but might result in a chain reaction.

Reducing the skill of some of the civis (against this is - they are a hardy people that know the island well)

Having a radio/tape player in the cab of some vehicles

Having weather forecasts

Enabling the player to reorder the group

Bringing back the mad women runners.

Forcing a specific view distance in the intro.

Having an outro that shows the fate of any surviving soldiers.

[THobson]

Okay, Just to say I am a bit red faced here.  

Anyone who downloaded v1.10 before I posted this will still have some debugging code active in the mission.  That code will do absolutely nothing to the mission, but it will generate an error message at the first group of civillians.  Anyone downloading after this post will have a mission with that code deactivated.  Same mission just no error message.

Sorry.

[Fragorl]

D/Ling now. ;D

I kind of gave up on the previous version, simply because I played for so long using ecp and then caught the savegame bug Editing/replacing the savegame files worked, but caused all the scripts to cease functioning (the game would come up with 'file XXX.sqs not found' as soon as the mission loaded).

About the savegame bug: I don't know too much about how it works, but from what I can see, the number of global variables has something to do with it. That includes named units. I have a couple of functions which can seriously reduce this number. Basically, it involves rolling all the global variables into a global array. This in itself isn't a new idea, but the interface is very user friendly, and I envisioned using the functions in exactly this situation.

I can explain if you're interested, or else check here if you haven't seen this already. (ignore most of my first post, its a bit verbose The 4th post explains it a bit better).
On the other hand, you say that you've streamlined it, so there may be fewer problems. Either way, I look forward to playing it with ecp!

EDIT: and i should mention, that's a massive number of changes you've implemented, excellent work I look forward to playing it

[Fragorl]

And to double post:

;D ;D
I've just seen the new intro. Chilling. It's a huge improvement on an already fantastic intro. And It looks as though you've included everything everyone has asked for. The change to the story makes it much better IMO. Great timing of the text with the 'The US moved in to counter this Soviet invasion' which kind of looks like a counterattack to the Soviets 'moving in to restore order'. The music matches the text, events of the intro perfectly. I can't really fault it.

Starting location/briefing
It's changed! It's always nice to see something new. Although, I don't know if this is any less of a walk.... ;D I like it better, however.

Anyway, that's all for now, back to the game.

[Fragorl]

And to triple post.

OK, it is now becoming apparent how much work has gone into updating the mission. I've now completed the first leg (to the mountain hideout). Here is my feedback, in no particular order

*** Caution - Spoilers ***
- The walk up the hill. Yes, it was just as long. But the change of scenery made it quite bearable.
- The cutscene with Tatyana. Much better, I noticed a few small changes, they give the whole cutscene more flow.
- After the cutscene. This is better. Nikolay wants Tatyana to wait for him, but she is very fearful of the returning soldiers, and panics, fleeing.
- Tatyana's death. The voice acting could use a little more improvement; ('Why didn't you wait for me, Tatyana?') Nikolay sounds more exasperated than shocked/distraught/furious. But it is better. It is fitting that Nikolay says something when he approaches Tatyana's body, but I think more should be done here - perhaps a short burial scene, another (short) cutscene showing Nikolay reflecting on her death. It seems a bit heartless just to drive off. Also, the comment about the other dead civvie ('Glad it's not my uncle') made me chuckle. The tone of voice is wrong; the comment seems out of place. Overall, however, there has been great improvement in this whole sequence.
- The drive to La Pessagne. I come across a whole column of soldiers. So that's what Tatyana was afraid of! I systematically run them all down in my jeep. They don't seem to mind...  :-\. On the plus side, I've already picked up a couple of RPGs and an AA launcher. Hurrah.
- La Pessagne. There are soldiers in La Pessagne; it was deserted before. This is one of those little things that improves on the original - it lends a feeling that the island is actually inhabited. I run one down in my haste to get to the mountain lodge. I do not stop to see the others' reactions.
- The lodge. This cutscene has been hugely reworked. I like it better. It explains the whole situation in a nutshell, and without being too wordy. Great work.
- 'They're following me? I expected to follow them. It must be my father's uniform....'. Thank you. I noticed this.

That's all for now. It's fantastic so far.

[THobson]

Fragorl.  It is comments like that that make it all worth while.  Thank you.

On the voice acting - everyone is trying as hard as they can but we are all crap.  I wondered about having deliberately naff voices (we could manage that) but it is not in keeping with the overall effect I want to create.  If everyting else can be got to how I want it I might start looking for some real out of work actors.  They have to be out of work or I would not be able to afford them ;D


EDIT:
I am not sure I have made enough changes to the number of variables etc to enable it to be played with ecp without hitting the large savegame bug.  Let me know how you get on.  I looked at your scripts - I may need to do something like that, but I have got the number of global variables down quite a bit.  My first step will be to remove the stuff I use for debugging that is turned off in the playable mission.  For example I must have 50+ markers used to track the locations of the main groups and units.  These are constaantly updated on the map when played in de-bug mode but just sit there as empty markers in the mission you are now playing.   There is some other stuff like that that can be taken out without impacting the mission in any way.

[Henderson]

The fog! THE FOG! I hatessss itssssss.

The mission is great, like the new cutscenes and dialogs, and also, *gasp* an occupied Larche! The Island now has many targets to strike.

The only thing is, the player can't do anything in the fog. Even with the new and improved weather, the AI is popping me from the abyss. As I type this I'm stuck outside of La Trinite getting popped over and over and over again by guys I can't see. I know the weather is supposed to add feeling to the mission, but to me, it's unplayble when it's foggy. *cries* I don't want it to be 80 degrees and nice and sunny, but the fog, to me at least, has to go. It seems the AI isn't affected by the fog but IS affected by the time of day, hence me being able to drive up on them at night and run them over.

Having to wait out the fog isn't that fun of an idea to me.  :'(

[macguba]

I have d/l and will comment when I get a chance to play.