(Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies

[Dubieman]

I'll agree with the linking the player progress to weather. Like right now its very tedious to do anything when the fog & weather is crappy and changes so quick, while waiting out some troops.

[macguba]

For the avoidance of doubt I didn't mean that the weather should be hardcoded.    Merely that there is a bias towards more sunshine as you go on, and particularly towards the end.

Just glad you thought my ideas were good.  

[THobson]

No - I think I understood what you meant.  I need something that will give different weather, but the same weather pattern each time the mission is played.   I think I am homing in on a solution but as you can imagine testing it is a long term task .  It is one thing looking at graphs of fog, overcast and rain in Excel, it is quite another to experience it on the ground in real time.  Also it is meant to be a nusance as much as a help.

[Fragorl]

19 pages... phwaw...

Right! I will now relate the fruits of my weekend's activities with abandoned armies.

DISCLAIMER: the author wishes to deny any responsibilty for the lack of original material in this post from this point onwards.

Now, with that out of the way, I will begin.

For starters, I didn't get quite as far as I'd expected I would with the mission, but that's fine with me. I'm not a *particularly* skilled flashpoint player, and I tend to retry if things don't go perfectly according to plan, so this probably contributed to my lack of progress. Played in cadet mode but with quite a few vet options enabled; this is mostly 'cause I can't drive (or command) a vehicle without 3rd person view or I'd be fodder for the first RPG or LAW soldier with any degree of skill. Having said that, I've made a pretty mess of Stamenov's convoy(s?), caused a major fracas between the so-called Northerons and Southerons, and am preparing an armoured assault on Stamenov's HQ.

La Trinite

One of the good things about beta testing after everyone else is that I could glean a bit of situational awareness (knowing what to expect) as well as a few tactics for the mission. Cheers Planck especially for the bit about hiding under the bmp ambulance. I must have spent the larger portion of my time in Trinite under there ;D Anyhow, I knew to expect a lot of opposition both armoured and on foot. Oh yes.

I started out from my salvaged savegame at the lodge having rescued one lot of civilians. Instead of going straight to the other 2 spots, I decided to head straight for Trinite, figuring that I'd pick one of the other lots up on the way back (the one closest to Trinite), and use 'em as drivers to steal some of the support vehicles and any tanks I could make servicable from the town. ('Civilians'? Hah! They can earn their keep if I'm rescuing them ;D). At any rate, I figured 5 other group members was sufficient, as I wasn't planning on doing any heavy fighting on my own. Let Andropov do that. If any other men joined me later, I would arm them with my stolen ammo truck.

So off we went in our Pv35, taking care to avoid roads this time. The ever-present helicopter to the North made a few close passes but never did more than that. We reached Trinite without event. Not a soul. I'd considered doing a bit of insurgent-style RPGing from 2nd-storey buildngs to complement the excellent AV/AP mines, but the town was a ruin. Not a building left standing (aside from the church- but I don't think anything can be done about that ). So I ordered a disembark a little way from the outskirts of the town, and had a quick squiz about - no one home. Deciding I could spend all day fretting about unseen soldiers (the fog was bad at this point), I boldy strutted in with my squad, as if we owned the place. Still not a soul in sight, and I soon located the ammo crates and the BMP ambulance. I received my mines. Minelaying takes a while, but now was as good a time as any since I could go about it unmolested. I placed a few of the scripted AV mines as well as some real ones; according to various people the scripted ones weren't quite as powerful. I put a few in the city, as well as some other key choke points, yada yada, the usual. Took me, with great care, about 10 minutes. Next, 'twas time to break out some guns for my squaddies - however, my good luck began to turn here. 2,3 and 5 armed up just fine, but 6 refused to take a gun no matter what. I begged and pleaded with him (exaggeration), I threatened him at gunpoint, but the daft sod just wouldn't. I left him exasperated, and turned my attentions to 3, the only other member of my squad able to tote a heavy weapory. I realised I'd told him to take the wrong gun. Rectified that, managed to arm him with a G36 and a AT4. Grabbed an RPG for myself. 5 was looking good with her dragunov, but d*mn! The others all had pistols out. Another 3 minutes whilst I figured how to get them to switch to primary weapons (of course, there was no 'select AK74' option, no, that would have been too easy). Eventually I solved it by getting them to 'put it to' the ural ammo. As for 6, I'd just about given up on him; he'd managed to drop his pistol but not to pick up anything else. I decided that he could just stay like that, and do any surrendering we needed for us. I moved the others off, away from the ammo trucks ready to leave, and- Lo and Behold! 6 runs up to the truck and takes his M21. The others must have been blocking him... or something? A bug perhaps, but annoying to the extreme.

Anyhow, I said my luck was taking a turn for the worse. With all this mucking about and frustration, I'd forgotten to save. I became acutely aware of the squeaking sound of tracks nearby, and realised this then. My entire squad would be cut down; I had planned to evacuate at the first hint of the armoured column. I could retry, but my intricate mine-laying work would be lost. I agonised for a bit. Decided to save and keep going, see how things panned out. As it happened it took about 10 retries before I managed to save all of my squad, and throw myself under the ambulance. To use a cliche, in the nick of time. Enemy infantry swarmed through the town, it really felt like that. Fog was moderate at this stage. Then: the brown stuff hit the spinning thing. The convoy began to hit the first of my mines. Infantry poured past my position- I shot any that crossed my field of fire. This went on for some time; I'd long since got the message that the two sides were fighting each other, and the sounds of gunfire rang merrily through the streets. I must've spent the best part of 1 and a half hours, alternately hidden under the BMP ambulance when things were hot, and running around the streets tracking and shooting any stragglers. An M1A1 managed to get through several of my mines without any great impedance, only to stop a couple of LAWs from an enemy rocket soldier. 2 of its crew died there and then, the other one escaped the blaze on foot but died soon after. Another M1A1 hit one of my mines in the town and was propelled into an alley, sideways... much to my annoyance, since I could have repaired/used it later. An infantry squad of Southies was heading around the outside of the town dangerously close to where i'd hidden my men, I ordered them to hold fire and fortunately the opposing force was was torn to pieces by some of Andropov's infantry and an m2A2, and the survivors fled into the city where they met their fate. At one stage a cobra(?) joined in the fight, launching TOW after TOW, before being shot down itself. Must to my dismay I found he'd been finishing off armour that I was planning on taking for my own ends. There were countless scenes like this going on; I dont know how many of them were deliberate (although I'm sure you helped them along ), but the combat ambience was quite thrilling and cool. Although I wont tell you how many times I died.

La Trinite - the aftermath

Eventually the combat died off and the remains of the convoy(s) left. After being shot a couple of times, I decided to make a good go of it and eliminate every last enemy who was likely to cause me grief. Much to my surprise there were only four or five about the place, and after they were dealt to, I was able to reclaim a few tanks; a T80, A T72 and an M2A2 (weak, but great for the TOW launcher). Corpses everywhere. La Trinite was a mess- there were quite a few armoured wrecks to begin with; now, well... it's more practical to drive around the town than through it. The cobra lies crumpled some way away in a copse. A shame; I had plans for shooting the pilot when the heli was flying slowly and low down, or perhaps gettting lucky with ECP's tail-rotor faliure script (which inevitable results in an intact chopper). Ah well.

I went off to grab me a civilian work force, picked up the tanks, support trucks and my trusty PV35, and headed off back home. Or at least, intended to. The logistics of getting that many trucks and tanks back to the lodge is a nightmare. For a start, forget about going directly offroad from Trinite to the lodge. After experimenting for about half an hour, i found it was a no-go, and was forced to use the road via Arudy (no convoy to run into now). Which took a long time indeed. My advice: if you want the player to have a sense of 'base' about the lodge (and I did-I found myself heading back there automatically after combat), and think there is a possiblily that he/she might have armour, then please put the lodge more accessible.   Anyway, I was forced to return 'coz I had to 'rescue' the civilians... and of course i realised too late that they comprised the crew of one of my tanks. So when the civil arrive back at base my m2a2 was left high and dry.  

Currently camped out some way from Houdan, preparing for a final assault on Stamenov.

Apologies for the long post, that summarises a couple days of gameplay. Having a blast  ;D, but might be a while til my next post. (Gotta find time). Cheers

Fragorl

[macguba]

Fragori has reminded me of a couple of things that I may have forgotten to mention.    

I too had trouble arming my lads in La Trinite:  there is so much stuff in that square that the routefinding comes to grief sometimes.    Thin it out a bit.  (You probably already have.)

Handguns in your squad make life really tedious.   More Kozlices and fewer pistols at the lodge please.

Getting to the lodge from the west is ok, but from the east - with vehicles - its tedious.  That's partly why I didn't go back there.   It may well be in the best spot, and it obviously must have an "in the mountains feel", but a final recce to check for other possible locations wouldn't go amiss.

[THobson]

There were countless scenes like this going on; I dont know how many of them were deliberate

Well the fact that they fight is deliberate.  Getting them to fight at La Trinite was down to you.  (I have not managed to get them fighting anywhere else I would add).  How they fight is entirely up to them, and one thing I really like about it is that it is different everytime.

Having a blast

I am really glad to hear it.

Your other comments and macguba's follow up shows the benefit of beta testing.  I have spent all my spare time on Malden for several months now so I have just got acustomed to telling the team to put their pistols in the ammo truck  (I seem to remember that telling them to go prone is also a good way to get them to put away the pistol and get out their primary weapon).  I also know that going due west from La Trinite will eventually bring you face on to a very steep peak, skirting the peak to the left you can go diagonally across a steep slope (instead of going up it) and so come to the lodge.  Despite many weeks of instruction from me the AI drivers insist on going round near Arudy though.  It is good to get feed back from people trying it for the fist time.

Edit:
By the way I am impressed by the amount of hardware you picked up.

[macguba]

I take it back.   There is an easy and obvious driving route from La Trinite to the lodge. I just hadn't spent enough time looking at the map to spot it.   Straight along the top of the rigde as you say, the last steep section is indeed easily traversed.

[.pablo.]

Handguns in your squad make life really tedious.  More Kozlices and fewer pistols at the lodge please.

i think the sense of "damn we have crappy weapons" is worth the small inconvenience of having to tell the ai to drop their pistols after getting better weapons; the only thing that i disagree with is giving the player access to such great weapons so early on.

please put the lodge more accessible.

if you think about the lodge's location within the terms of the plot, it would make sense for the main characters to hide in a lodge in such an unreachable location, as the only people with tanks that might want to go there would be trying to kill them

[Dubieman]

All I can say is that getting tanks up to the lodge via a western or northern/western road through Larche is hard. (oh yea and arudy, that road too...)

And all enemy tanks that attacked my lodge, well they passed by, were coming from the west heading for La trinite. No tank ever attacked the lodge. Only those pesky infantry.  ;D

@current status: still waiting in the fog for those last infantry peeps to show their ugly mugs...

[THobson]

@GRK

@current status: still waiting in the fog for those last infantry peeps to show their ugly mugs...

I hope it won't take long.  I have changed the weather model to give better weather later on.  In fact I just tested it and I think I have over compensated so I have just wound back a few parameters.

Also the whole end game is to be re-thought.  By now you would have finished and any remaining loons would have surrendered.  Having surviving loons that surrender gives some interesting outro possibilities.

@.pablo.
Thanks.  on reflection I agree.  When I was placing the lodge and giving the guys there weapons I was not thinking about how the game would play, rather I was thinking about what it might be really like.  

I have just checked the weapons available in the ammo crate at the lodge, there are 2xkozlice and 1xhunting rifle, in other words enough primary weapons for everybody to have one.  Also when I first started playing it I didn't use the lodge as a base, I just grabbed an ammo truck and the BMP ambulance, and they formed my mobile base.

So before I make any chenges here I think I will just soak on the idea, after all the location of the lodge was not an accident, I took quite sometime finding that place.

[Dubieman]

Hey Thobson,

@the surrendering troops...
Hmm what will we do with our new indentured servants Bill? I dunno, lets make them drag those Abrams carcasses from La Trinite to La Pessagne and back...

And not that I want you to rework your entire mission or anything, just thought it was kinda odd but check for a random movement script by Wizzywig at  http://www.ofpec.com/editors/browse.php?browsewhat=2&category=2_10

dunno if you saw that before.

[THobson]

No I didn't see it.  Clear evidence that there is nothing new under the sun.

Edit:

I have just looked at the script.  It seems very dependent on specific locations.  My scripts just move the waypoints of patrolling groups randomly within a defined rectangle or circle - which is why I had the code ready to answer the question on GLs you just posted.

[Fragorl]

One more thing I forgot to add: my medic (6) seems to be malfunctioning. He wont heal anyone (including me, the group leader) except (as far as I can make out) himself. Although I haven't seen him do that even, it's just he always seems to be fine while the others are in various states of injury.

The problem is that there is no 'heal at medic' action for either my squaddies or myself, no matter how close I get to him. He's definitely a medic, though, as far as I can tell: he has the 'medic' icon and he looks like a medic.

Because of this, my first sortee at Stamenov's was disasterous. A lone RPG soldier shot the T72 under my command, instantly killing the commander. Another explosive projectile of some description wiped out my driver and I was forced to take up the position and flee, but having lost 2 of my men, any further attempts at an assault would be ridiculous, so I retired and retried. I'm now back at my mobile base, but unfortunately I didnt have enough men to bring any support vehicles (apart from a repair truck), and I'm faced with the daunting task of retreiving that BMP ambulance. On that note, a first aid tent would have been good at the lodge as well. Or perhaps a script allowing you to 'deploy' a first aid tent would be better, given the scope of the mission and the fact that you'll be setting up camp in a variety of positions throughout the game. Plus, the medic is only human, and if he should fall...

Anyhow, just thought I'd let you know. More later.

[Dubieman]

Yea, I know yours is a little better cause its based on WPs. Just thought it was odd that there was something like it in the ed depot.

@Fragorl
I kinda like that idea, maybe a "basic" medkit at the lodge (any premium mountain lodge would, with the bear attacks and all ;D) so you can go back and heal up. Even though there are BMP ambulances and some medical tents, its sometimes a problem to get to them. Though I was only in that tight spot (damaged hands while trying to shoot ppl) once.

[macguba]

It is, in my humble opinion, a sign of a good mission that people are discussing whether the lodge really is in the right place or exactly what medical attention should be available there.

The non-operating medic sounds like ofp having a fit, as it sometimes does.   (For example with my no.2 who thought his formation position was 30m ahead of me.)    Some kind of medical script at the lodge would be good:   my personal preferance would be for one of the civvies (perhaps female) to join you as medic if your squad medic was dead.     Although, since I never used the lodge as a base, it's not something I feel strongly about.    

The underlying point is one I have made before:  do you want the player to feel the lodge is a base?   If so, make it more attractive to use as a base.    If not, make the civvies leave - magically protected - as a group to go to some undefined location where they vanish in a puff of setPos.   The current civvies-stand-around-being-neither-fish-nor-fowl is, for a top class mission, unsatisfactory.   It's novel writing again.... the Lodge is a character, and as we all know so well a character in a novel should never appear once unless he/she is a throwaway ship passing in the night.

Wittering.  I must have been drinking again.    Never trust a post made by me after 1am.    Or rather, trust only those since I'm pissed and therefore writing what I really think.