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Author Topic: (Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies  (Read 214643 times)

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djackl

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #15 on: 02 Feb 2005, 00:45:25 »
I'm not too knowledgable on the technical side of this, so I'll just say what I thought while playing it.

Intro - Good, the music really emphasised the atmosphere. I especially liked the hanging scene, though if you could get ropes.....

Story - I echo Macca's points, the story sounds farfetched, yet it could easily (with a few script changes here or there) be completely believable, the last people on earth idea sounds good, yet you have to wonder maybe they would at least try to get back to the mainland? Maybe include that in the story somewhere: 'An expedition was launched to the mainland to search for help...they never returned'.

Mission -
Very slowly managed to get up to Vigny (That damn pistol makes you walk the whole way :D) and stumbled upon a Policeman where I found an extra few clips for my gun and some binoculars. I took out the three dudes (one of them was stuck in a wall and couldnt seem to fire at me, he was divided in half lengthways by this wall - ouch!) and met Tatyana. Voice acting was good all through, except at this point where you happily go 'I just killed 3 people', you might as well add a 'woohoo!' on the end of that seeing as the character seems quite happy to have done it :D. The next bit also surprised me, she just seemed to run out into the street and get shot without any warning! I think also the patrol should be at least two people, otherwise it looks a bit strange.... The idea of having her tell you to get the car would work, it's just I didn't have any particular feeling when she died, either through the abruptness of it, or whether I hadn't had time to get to know the character I do not know, I wasn't too bothered really  :P. I got in the jeep, and zoomed down the road for a bit and then east before reaching La Pessagne, dodging a patrol on the way. Cue a lot of driving before I reach the lodge (by the way, since i travelled off road the most of the way, I didn't see much, but I did see a fire next to a church (?) west of the lodge, if I had travelled on the road I guess I would have had problems  ;)). I then met all the gang at the lodge. (As a sidenote, the voice scared me s***less when it said 'HALT', although I guess that is what it should do really  :-[). Although the voice acting can't be knocked, it would add a personal side to the people (considering they are meant to be civvies with normal lives) if different voice actors were used for each person. I admit it's hard to find voice actors (I know, I'm really struggling to find some for my movie) but it would add a personal touch, and maybe then some conversation could be added in which would generate a bond between the characters, I know I know :
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I might have built up peoples expectations too much
but it would really be worth it considering the huge amount of ground that has to be covered during the mission, which brings me nicely onto my next point.
Although I'm sure most others will disagree, the lack of AccTime really detracted from the experience for me, as when it came down to rescuing the civvies, and doing any amount of significant travelling, it just really tended to drag on. It was just like ' Find Civvie A and take to B, then Find C and go to B again, then D' etc etc, I just felt that something needs to either speed up or spice up the endless truck journeys back and forth. Maybe include a Tape player on the truck so that you can listen to music on the way to places. Failing that, just put AccTime back in, or just ignore me and listen to everybody else shouting that they don't want it back in  ::).

This is where I finish for the moment, I have just picked up the second load of civvies and am preparing for the long slog back to the Lodge. Wish me luck!  ;D

Offline SEAL84

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #16 on: 02 Feb 2005, 03:38:31 »
@SEAT84This is deliberate.  What I gave you in the ammo crate at the mountain lodge is absolute crap, but I think realistic crap in the cicumstances.

Have you been tempted to use the hints yet?  Should I take them out.  Given the progress you are making I think I should.Well I have tried to be realistic in what you get.  Those guys got to the lodge with whatever they had available.I hope you do.

Yeah, I know the ammo, vehicle and personnel equipment is deliberate...not petitioning for any changes in those respects, I'm just explaining where I am and giving you some reasoning behind my approach...I guess it's pretty obvious though as you're the author :P

I think the way things are structured so far is great...gives that really desperate feeling to the mission.  As you can see I've had to adjust my gameplay to compensate.

As far as the hints go, I haven't looked yet...I'm about to fire the mission up right now and conduct my recon of some of the towns.  I'm tempted to head back to Vigny since I know there are some KIAs I haven't robbed ;D  Given that there was only one squad there last time, I think I can manage it...I do want to get a better handle of what I'm up against before I make any moves though.

One step at a time... 8)


***EDIT***

Hooah!  Raid successful!  I took down an infantry squad singlehandedly and made off with a jeep packed full of weapons...M16s, AKs, grenades, an M60, a Stinger, an RPG and a LAW, and of course a pair of NVGs for myself.

As Sergeant Horvath said in Saving Private Ryan, "We're in business, boys!"

That was tense though...after wasting the infantrymen I thought I heard that machinegun-jeep convoy charging towards me, but they must have passed off in the distance or something...I kept expecting a hail of bullets in the back as I raced back and forth between the corpses and the jeep.
 ;D

****EDIT #2****

I think I have just discovered lesson #1 of this mission...you can't attack the same town twice and live to tell about it.

I returned to the town I had just cleared and plundered because previously I had filled the jeep to maximum capacity.  I went back to take some more mags and such, and found 5 more infantrymen there.  The rain and fog had since returned, so I left my jeep a few hundred yards away, then got momentarily disoriented, but I found it and took out the five soldiers with no problems.  These guys had grenade launchers, and M60 and an RPG.  I ran back to the jeep, got disoriented again, drove back to the town, and started looting.

I was almost finished - I literally had just picked up the RPG and was on my way back to the jeep to make my getaway when I see something out of the corner of my eye.  I write it off as a bush but a split second later I turn around, my jaw on the floor.  Not 25 yards away sits a T-80, a T-72, and a Vulcan, all looking right at me.  Needless to say I was splattered all over the grass within milliseconds.  

But, despite getting my shit ruined by an armored platoon, I plan to head back and try to make a quicker hit this time...drive closer to the town, grab the highest-priority items first, and run like hell.

Posthumous Purple Hearts for SEAL: 1
« Last Edit: 02 Feb 2005, 05:43:10 by SEAL84 »

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #17 on: 02 Feb 2005, 15:14:31 »
@djackl
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I'm not too knowledgable on the technical side of this, so I'll just say what I thought while playing it.
That is all that is needed.

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though if you could get ropes.....
If only I could.  In the Overview picture I was able to paint them in.  Here the best I can do is to ensure the scene is only on screen for a short space of time.  I think the weather doesn't help here.  macguba suggested worse weather for the intro and that might also make the lack of rope less obvious.

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Story - I echo Macca's points, the story sounds farfetched, yet it could easily (with a few script changes here or there) be completely believable, the last people on earth idea sounds good, yet you have to wonder maybe they would at least try to get back to the mainland? Maybe include that in the story somewhere: 'An expedition was launched to the mainland to search for help...they never returned'.
I always recognised that this was a weakness, and like all good ideas I now wonder why I did not think of this at the time - the answer is that I was busy think about other things of course!

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Very slowly managed to get up to Vigny (That d**n pistol makes you walk the whole way )
I did try to give you the shortest possible journey from somewhere realistic to Vigny.
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and stumbled upon a Policeman where I found an extra few clips for my gun and some binoculars
I am impressed, I expected this to be a rare find.

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except at this point where you happily go 'I just killed 3 people', you might as well add a 'woohoo!' on the end of that seeing as the character seems quite happy to have done it
Lol yes acting is not my forte.
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The next bit also surprised me, she just seemed to run out into the street and get shot without any warning! I think also the patrol should be at least two people, otherwise it looks a bit strange.... The idea of having her tell you to get the car would work, it's just I didn't have any particular feeling when she died, either through the abruptness of it, or whether I hadn't had time to get to know the character I do not know, I wasn't too bothered really
Well I can't do anything about whether or not you are an empathetic person, but I can certainly try to do something about this scene.

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I didn't see much, but I did see a fire next to a church (?) west of the lodge
It is actually a farm house.  There are in fact two of them.  Remember the barn scene in the intro where a captive is being led to a barn?  One of these is that barn, if you go there you will find that the unfortunate captive suffered the same fate as her predecesors.  I put the fires in to try and help the player navigate to the lodge.  

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if I had travelled on the road I guess I would have had problems  )
Possible, but not certain.
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(As a sidenote, the voice scared me s***less when it said 'HALT', although I guess that is what it should do really  )
Well you are a stranger approaching some frightened and nervous people in the early hours of the morning!
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Although the voice acting can't be knocked, it would add a personal side to the people (considering they are meant to be civvies with normal lives) if different voice actors were used for each person. I admit it's hard to find voice actors (I know, I'm really struggling to find some for my movie) but it would add a personal touch, and maybe then some conversation could be added in which would generate a bond between the characters, I know I know :
The voices at the lodge are one of my son's (Ruslan), my wife(Irena) and me (all the rest).  I am no star but I did all the remaining voices so it became a complete mission.  I am still looking for other voices for the final version.

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the lack of AccTime really detracted from the experience for me, as when it came down to rescuing the civvies, and doing any amount of significant travelling, it just really tended to drag on. It was just like ' Find Civvie A and take to B, then Find C and go to B again, then D' etc etc, I just felt that something needs to either speed up or spice up the endless truck journeys back and forth. Maybe include a Tape player on the truck so that you can listen to music on the way to places. Failing that, just put AccTime back in, or just ignore me and listen to everybody else shouting that they don't want it back in  .
You make two important points here:
1. acctime in or out.  I had got so used to playing it that I had forgotten about removing it.  Other testers also have commented on it.  There are two reasons why I took it out, one aesthetic and the other practical.  The aesthetic reason was so that people would get the sense of size and atmosphere I have tried to create in the mission.  The practical reason is that vehicles can do strange things at 4x speed.  Important elements of this mission are road convoys running - as you now know - between Chapoi and La Trinite, and between the northern airbase and La Trinite and mg jeep patrol running.......well that would be telling.  I have soak tested these vehicle movements for days on end (yes really) and I never cease to be surprised by how many different ways they find to get screwed up.  20+ hours with no problem and then suddenly they start hitting trees and each other. I do have scripts to detect and correct for this now so putting back acctime is a possibility.  I will wait and see what the general consensus is about this.
2. Tediously going back and for the getting the civis.  This was certainly not meant to be tedious.  My intent was to give the player something to do while the dawn was still red and the weather bad and the choppers flying overhead to develop the atmosphere, and also to augment his small team.  There are four civis at each location and I did place a car at each with a capacity of 4.  (I admit the amount if fuel in each varies randomly from ‘not very much' up to ‘a bit more'.)  It is not necessary to escort them back to the lodge, just that they should be got there.  I will need to look at how word the instructions for this in the next version.

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This is where I finish for the moment, I have just picked up the second load of civvies and am preparing for the long slog back to the Lodge. Wish me luck!    
I certainly do.  And thank you

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #18 on: 02 Feb 2005, 15:20:21 »
@SEAL84

This is absolutely fascinating, and shows perfectly why we should all beta test our missions.  I love Indian food, but I am no expert because I know what I like and tend to stick with it.  I am the same with missions, once I have found a way I like to play a mission I find it almost impossible to play it in a different way.  What you are doing is something quite different from how I tested it myself.  Great keep at it Thanks.
« Last Edit: 02 Feb 2005, 15:42:19 by THobson »

Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #19 on: 02 Feb 2005, 15:53:54 »
Just out o curiosity whats ur benchmark thobson?.. im off for a playtest now with a clean version of OFP.

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #20 on: 02 Feb 2005, 16:02:58 »
My pc is a 3.2GHz Pentium 4 that benchmarks at 4000.  There has been some discusion of this in the past and there does not seem to be a simple relationship between CPU speed and benchmark.  By asking for this information from beta testers I hope to get a view on whether or not I need to have code that modifies the misison depending on the benchmark

Tarados Qeng

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #21 on: 02 Feb 2005, 16:21:14 »
Sorry, haven't played this trough due to my other activities, but I'll give you some of my opinions & experiences. I was not going to test this at all, since you described it a long and hard mission...

First of all, I experienced no lag whatsoever. But actually, I've not yet been in any large battles.  OFP Benchmark is 6880, no ecp.

Didn't like the overview, it really was a bit confusing.

Intro was quite nice, I'm no expert in these things, but yeah, some camera angles weren't absolutely perfect. Also, I didn't like the background story. It was maybe good, but I didn't like it. But it's just me, don't change it.

Actually, I didn't like the 'storyline' either, but that's just because I'm not fan of that kind of stories. USA would never leave it's soldiers on some small isle, even if a war had to be kept in secret.  ;D But I think many people will like that story, don't change it, it's just me.

Briefing had only one problem - I didn't exactly know what there was in the village except my uncle.

The start was boring. Yeah. For the beginning it was nice feeling of walking in the rain uphill, but it's a bit too long walk - or I'm just impatient.  8) But let's say, at this point I noticed that time acceleration was not allowed.  ;)

In the village I went to the house where the fire was burning. The soldier first just watched me, so I thought he wasn't hostile. I went on to the other side, but at this point they started shooting at me. I was surprised and wounded, but killed them with my pistol.

Then I explored a bit the village. Didn't find anything special, no sign of my uncle, who had solutions for every problem I had. Yeah.

I got back to the house where I killed the soldiers, and noticed Tatyana in the back room. Cutscene.

Then, I killed the soldier who had shot my cousin. Took a jeep and started looking at my map. Oh, there it is. Off I went. Some soldiers were by the road, they didn't care about a jeep passing by, which was good. I've always wondered how can soldiers see from 100 meters that the driver of the vehicle is an enemy....

I took a bad turn and drove wrong way. Noticed it and got back to the right road. A convoy passed by me. That was nice.

Went off-road and to the cottage. No uncle, but Tatyana's husband. Unca's killed. Oh yes. Let's kill them all together - how sweet. There was a brief pause between two cutscenes and I think they'd been better as one cutscene. (Nice objective you've got there between them; Find your uncle. Kill them all!!!)

Okay, at this point, I saved and quit. Don't know anything about the remaining mission, but killing them all seems a good challenge, since this is one single mission, not a campaign...

Getting back to it later, perhaps.
« Last Edit: 02 Feb 2005, 16:23:09 by Tarados Qeng »

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #22 on: 02 Feb 2005, 17:28:18 »
@Tarados Qeng

Yeh the story line is weak and will change in a later version, as will the overview.

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The soldier first just watched me, so I thought he wasn't hostile
I have found that the loons do have limited ability to detect you when it is is dark/rainy/foggy, and here it is all three.

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Getting back to it later, perhaps.
I hope you do.  I appreciate the comments and thanks.

Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #23 on: 02 Feb 2005, 17:34:59 »
COuple of points about the intro. First off the hanging civs didn't swing for me, not a problem still looks great  ;D. For the scene looking at the corpses in the barn before tatyana is raped i would have done several shots of the corpses faces with camCommit 0 and then another one going to look at tatyana (camCommit 0) again. I really didn't like the way the camera pan to the right, stopped for a bit then panned to look at Tatyana.

I second thirds whatever it is now the idea of removing your setAccTime restriction, also give the player a kozlice instead of a pistol and remove the two russians in the first building they just kept spinning round and round and round.

Got pretty lost looking for the lodge (am I the only one) unitl I stumbled across an uninhabited Larche which took a bit of immersion away. Drove up the mountains, got lost again so I decided to drive up to the highest point. Got there and the lodge was right at my feet. Jumped a mile when i was told to halt. Seriously I could have slit my wrist on the desk from my hand jumping... lower the volume a bit I don't wanna be killed by an OFP mission  :P.

Group of civilians joined meafter the second cutscene (I agree they should be put into one). They were all experts which is strange since none of them have any battle experience as far as I know.

I have been experiencing a LOT of lag - but then I do have a low end system.. upgrading soon though :D. I noticed in the "I also have bad news for you" scene here were americans running around the village.. ones that killed me on a previous attempt - I recognise the Stinger. Would it be possible for you to add another script using deleteVehicle when ur not near the enemy (also remember their positions, status etc to u can camCreate them back when ur closer) It'd be a hell of a chore but well worth it.

At this point I quit to go out. More later.

djackl

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #24 on: 02 Feb 2005, 17:53:46 »

Then I explored a bit the village. Didn't find anything special, no sign of my uncle, who had solutions for every problem I had. Yeah.

That was something I forgot to mention. Once I was in the village I didn't have a clue what to do about finding my uncle at all. Maybe in the briefing it could say where his house is or there could be a passport photo of him. One thing I did think of during the mission was how in 'Facile Ground' during the mine finding bit, when you found one a voice came up saying 'There's another mine' etc. How about each time you find a dead body in the village (there are a few I noticed) it could say 'That's not my uncle', 'No, him neither' or something like that, and then you would know, rather than me looking at them and thinking, "Have I bypassed a script that should have kicked in showing me that he is the uncle or something?"

Should have added - I love it when people have voices in the briefings, it really lets you get a feel for the character.

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Well I can't do anything about whether or not you are an empathetic person, but I can certainly try to do something about this scene.

I am a pretty empathatic person (okay maybe not  ::)), my point was that it just happens out of the blue and suddenly somebody you think is crucial in the story turns out to be a throwaway character (like the majority of the cast in AliensVsPredator the movie)  :D
« Last Edit: 02 Feb 2005, 17:54:44 by djackl »

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #25 on: 02 Feb 2005, 18:08:32 »
@XCess

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First off the hanging civs didn't swing for me
They swing very slowly, mainly I think because the camera is up close, in fact they can be seen to jerk about a bit.  I was going to take out the code that makes them swing to stop the jerking but then thought what the hell these could be death throes.  It is variable, sometimes it is there and sometimes not.

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For the scene looking at the corpses in the barn before tatyana is raped i would have done several shots of the corpses faces with camCommit 0 and then another one going to look at tatyana (camCommit 0) again. I really didn't like the way the camera pan to the right, stopped for a bit then panned to look at Tatyana
I have a lot of work to do to change the intro, all with one constraint being the length of time the music runs for.

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I second thirds whatever it is now the idea of removing your setAccTime restriction,
I am hearing none in support of keeping it so it looks like it will go.  Pity I thought it was neat.  I just need to check on how the vehicles will all behave at 4x.
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give the player a kozlice instead of a pistol
That would certainly help with the journey up the hill.
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remove the two russians in the first building they just kept spinning round and round and round
I will try and stop them spinning first.

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Got pretty lost looking for the lodge (am I the only one) unitl I stumbled across an uninhabited Larche which took a bit of immersion away
I had feared this would be a real problem.  I have put in some fires near farms west of the lodge to help guide the player.  No one else has mentioned a difficulty here though.  Larche was uninhabited!??  Mmmmm?

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... lower the volume a bit I don't wanna be killed by an OFP mission
Lol.  All the volumes will need to be looked at.  Of course every time play it I am expecting it, feedback from people for whom this is a surprise is helpful.

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(I agree they should be put into one)
Any specific reason?
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They were all experts which is strange since none of them have any battle experience as far as I know.
This another problem.  If they are not experts they can behave is rather stupid ways, but as you say, they should not be.

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I have been experiencing a LOT of lag
So it looks like 2500 to 3000 is low end of the benchmark range for this mission.

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were americans running around the village.. ones that killed me on a previous attempt - I recognise the Stinger. Would it be possible for you to add another script using deleteVehicle when ur not near the enemy (also remember their positions, status etc to u can camCreate them back when ur closer) It'd be a hell of a chore but well worth it.
You are right.  This gives an insight into something Alexi could not possibly know.  Rather than delete and camCreate I might just setPos them far enough away so away so they don't get back until after the scene is over.

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More later.
Thanks

Offline SEAL84

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #26 on: 02 Feb 2005, 18:22:51 »
I'll just add my votes:

Adding a Kozlice at the start: nay.

Enabling time acceleration: nay.

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #27 on: 02 Feb 2005, 18:38:20 »
@djackl
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That's not my uncle', 'No, him neither' or something like that, and then you would know, rather than me looking at them and thinking, "Have I bypassed a script that should have kicked in showing me that he is the uncle or something?"
A totally neat idea.  Thank you. :thumbsup:

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was that it just happens out of the blue and suddenly somebody you think is crucial in the story turns out to be a throwaway character (like the majority of the cast in AliensVsPredator the movie)
I know what you meant.  I did not mean to give the impression I was trivialising your comment.  It is meant to be a bit of a shock though.


Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #28 on: 02 Feb 2005, 18:40:19 »
@SEAL84

Thanks.  I will be counting votes.  I did like the idea of a pistol but id does make the hill climb a bit of a pain.

Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #29 on: 02 Feb 2005, 18:41:46 »
@SEAL84
Why nay to the kozlice?