OFPEC Forum

Missions Depot => Arma3 - Single Player Beta Testing => Topic started by: Undeceived on 28 Feb 2017, 02:40:26

Title: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 28 Feb 2017, 02:40:26
(https://15kgma-ch3302.files.1drv.com/y4mepcSDijb8uWbI8qAto-qhp3Ozp-UW8nN8O4N0_DbyXK3pFwTch98zvUnxSYxGOCUvpAvifl15JoZRLUBfV1vNajLR6bWxuGj9cHmUBtcybW_TphPaBV9pYMVleq19zzSxZrkUaapKP4MJHNow4KRI40A7SU1Z-QMW-j4PdJM6kseZURLASEiQikyUds-SfC1xsH2QOTTY3tv8iRvxjTwEQ?width=750&height=375&cropmode=none)



UNDERDOGS



Author: Undeceived


Description:
A story-driven, non-military SP-mini campaign (5 missions, cutscenes, multiple endings) about a group of friends getting in very deep trouble.


Trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWeiPqqeA2g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWeiPqqeA2g)


Required mods:
*Make sure you read about the known issues below!


Known issues (read this!!):


Beta testers:
Clayman
h-
mathias_eichinger
johnnyboy


Downloads:
Steam Workshop subscription:
Underdogs @ Steam Workshop (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=906356256)
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 01 Mar 2017, 08:22:50
So many things, so few hours in a day....

I try to fit this in somewhere too :P
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 01 Mar 2017, 10:54:16
:good:


EDIT:

I got some feedback in another forum and I'm making a new version which should be ready in the next days (lots of changes, optimisations and stuff). So please wait for it, before you download and provide feedback. Thanks.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 05 Mar 2017, 11:48:41
Ok, the new version is up now.

I really need more feedback on this! :good: Gameplay and bugs related, but also regarding the English translation.

Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 08 Mar 2017, 21:32:08
At first didn't get far.
After the intro in the briefing window I press 'continue' and the game CTDs...

Retry -> skipping intro -> continue -> works :dunno:
Btw, change 'criminality' to 'crime'.

Cutscenes in general:
- I don't really like to say much about these because they're always so clunky and such, just because the game itself is not really cutscene friendly
- Oh how I so hate camSetTarget bouncy cams  :weeping:

1st mission:
- I would add reconnaissance foto(s) of the warehouse into the briefing because one would assume they'd take some.
- Liked the lock picking feature, although one could make it a bit more like it was in the original Thiefs (the handle would wiggle a lot and once lock was picked it would stay in the open position) so would get some sort of visual info that the lock is picked? :hmmm:
- The minute details on operating the PC were a nice touch  :good:
- No tasks assigned/to assign? Found this odd since the next mission has...
- Way too dark, basically can't see shit outside lit areas. Mileage probably varies here a lot depending on one's ingame and monitor settings..

2nd:
- So dark I have to crank brightness and gamma up to 11 to see anything.
- Impossible to complete, after 10 re-tries got fed up (the save point for this is just annoying, having to watch the same cutscene each retry just gets old)..
- The 'shake them' task gets assigned half a second prior to getting punched in the face and shot.
- This kind of design is really bad for this game, IMO of course ;), because the atrocious physics and still quite clunky movement (civilians seem to be more clunkier for some reason, limited to the 3 basic stances even??), got shot on several tries because the guy gets stuck on the damn chair or whatever for example, or because you have to point to the absolutely correct pixel to get a door to open, the weird delay the game sometimes has in responding to inputs (might also be just my old 'n' sucky wireless keyboard and the fact that I have to use a thumb trackball mouse), etc...
- Don't really get how this is supposed to work because no matter where I exit the house I get shot?

Story seems interesting up to this point though.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: mathias_eichinger on 08 Mar 2017, 22:30:35
Tried the introduction and the first mission this evening.

Cutscenes are clunky, thats true, but I like the story development and the little details like the encounter with police, the lock picking, and the whole gloomy atmosphere, as well as the details as the PC boots up. I won't spoil more details here, but I am already immersed and did not spot any bugs (waypoints did not show up, but I take it the mission has been designed with veteran mode in mind?).
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 09 Mar 2017, 12:44:52
First of all, thanks a lot for your time and for trying it out, guys!

What concerns me the most is the CTD after watching the intro. Clayman from assaultmissionstudio.de reports the same, so mathias, did you get that as well? I myself never had one.
I changed some minor things in the respective scripts but no idea if it solved it or where it came from.


h- :D I know about your passion for camSetTarget bouncy cams - I thought I had avoided them as best as possible, but I'll check it out again. Of course you're right, mate. :)

What I'm NOT sure about is the difficulty resp. finding a way out of the house when the killers first appear... I already tuned down that part a bit in the current version (I assume you guys are playing v. 1.1?). Ok, using a thumb trackball mouse might make it more difficult - anyway I need more feedback on this. I'll set the beating guy a bit farther away from the door though.

How to escape (SPOILER for h-):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


One other problem is the darkness of the missions. I can tune brightness up more, yes, but the problem here is that every monitor is different. I'm thinking of implementing a kind of set up before the intro so that the player can set the right brightness for his PC. But even then the clouds again can change everything. NVGs are a no-go for me in this setting.

I'll adress all other feedback I got from you. Thanks so far!
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: mathias_eichinger on 09 Mar 2017, 20:55:18
So far, I am only through with the first mission, and I never had a CTD with that one!
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 10 Mar 2017, 08:12:08
Quote
How to escape (SPOILER for h-):
Since this is the first time I have ever been in this house how would I know which door is which ;)

The whole thing might boil down to me just sucking, nowadays it is nigh impossible for me to play anything that is too fast paced. And I haven't really played the game in like 1.5 years (side-effect of modding).

Quote
What concerns me the most is the CTD after watching the intro
It happened right after pressing 'Continue', I'm assuming when the mission intro cutscene should start playing (the one in which the guys sit around and the priest comes in).

IIRC it was STATUS_ACCESS_VIOLATION which is sooo helpful in deciphering what caused it (BIS and their horrid error handling). It can, in my personal experience, point towards something going awry with some scripting but usually that happens only with 3DEN commands because those have like zero error handling, some of them CTD the game with incorrect param type passed or if a object is assumed and objNull is passed..

It could be one of the mods that does it though?

Quote
I know about your passion for camSetTarget bouncy cams
I simply can not fathom why BIS has made it so that when using that command the camera a) points to the center mass of the unit (because actor's face is what you would obviously aim at) and b) why it then follows the up/down movements of the center mass..  :no:
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 10 Mar 2017, 10:10:44
Quote
Since this is the first time I have ever been in this house how would I know which door is which
Sorry! :D After leaving the room where the uncle lies go straight (don't take the exit door on the right), then follow the corridor  to the left and arrive at the back door.


Thanks for your memories on the CTD. Would be great to know though if it still happened in the intro mission (exactly when pressing Continue after the Introduction briefing) or while loading the intro of the first mission (Trespassers).
Yeah, it could be caused by a mod... That would be the worst case.


Good luck!



Edit:
Ok, if it didn't crash when skipping the "intro of the Introduction mission", I assume it happens when loading the "mission section of the Introduction mission".
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 13 Mar 2017, 20:58:44
Well, still can't get more than couple of meters from the house (can't even reach the mentioned bushes) until I'm peppered by three guys so dunno how any zig-zagging would even help (if it was even possible with this clunky-fest).
So, ENDMISSION.

Next one took a few tries to get the speed right, the dudes the chopper brings in seem to be indestructible so getting out before they arrive requires basically a SAS killhouse speed..

Really like the attention to detail you've put in this, the police station is really believably set up; and the sounds when collecting the documents = pure gold. :good:

Some minor typo/grammar stuff:
- change weared to wore
- the Police station is in German when playing the mission, in the briefing before the mission it's in English
- in the mission following the police station one (I guess it's called Manos) in the briefing change a sentence that says 'the sun had rised' to 'the sun had risen'

EDIT:
- Some of the markers in the mission Manos briefing are in German
- also the waypoint is visible line on the map
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 14 Mar 2017, 15:09:59
Good feedback, thanks a lot.

I fixed most of the points now but I don't know what's happening at some certain other parts you mentioned:


The Manos mission will be completely overhauled in the next version. While at the moment there is only one way to save Manos, the player will now have five or six. :D It will need some testing though.

On that part where you flee from the house (2nd mission): I repositioned the guy that's standing at the back door. He's now a bit farther away from the door which should make it a bit easier to run. I'll also plant some more bushes in the back of the house and maybe the uncle has left some stuff there too where the player can hide behind. :)

Thanks, h-
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 14 Mar 2017, 19:16:01
Quote
the player will now have five or six.
I assume that one of those is setting the tire heap on fire?   :whistle:

Quote
You say the one with the blue shirt (Elias) disappeared after the surprise attack. Are you 100% sure that he wasn't behind the crates? This is where he crawls as the sniper starts shooting.
He was nowhere to be seen, I actually ran around there at some point when searching the smokes (I think the crates were actually destroyed by me with the car in the beginning or the sniper shot them to pieces).
I saw him hiding behind the crates/the wall but at some point, probably when I left looking for the other guy I didn't see him anywhere until the cutscene after saving Manos..

Quote
Dragging Manos - this should work in all cases - with a rifle, with a pistol and unarmed - I tested it just now... You're not using other mods apart from the required ones, are you?
The only extra mod I had running was 3DEN Enhanced and that can't interfere with anything outside the editor.
I was only able to drag the guy until I first put the rifle back in the backpack and then started dragging.
I tried this several times. Weird.
Although I guess it could make sense, somehow when people are unconscious and completely jointless it's close to impossible to move them :P (it's like 60kg becomes 160..).
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 14 Mar 2017, 21:04:59
Quote
I assume that one of those is setting the tire heap on fire?   :whistle:

Hehe, no. What good would it do to burn the heap? I mean... You would have to carry the tires on the street so that the smoke blocks the sniper's view. The sniper would be grateful as he can accomplish his job and go home drink a beer. :D

However I'm still open for ideas. If you play and then think "Ok, that should be a possible way!" then let me know.

Yeah, that's weird indeed (dragging Manos). I will need some more feedback on this as I have no clue. :dunno:
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 15 Mar 2017, 06:44:50
Quote
What good would it do to burn the heap?
Tires smoke like crazy when you burn them, but obviously it would depend on the wind whether it would help or not.  :P
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 15 Mar 2017, 08:53:01
I know but they need to be in the right spot (dirt road) as there's almost no wind in the mission.
Saying that: You just gave me another idea. :D Thanks!
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 17 Mar 2017, 07:15:57
This campaign should be renamed Frustratingdogs  :D
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 17 Mar 2017, 20:22:14
h- you seem to be plagued with every trouble one can get playing the campaign. :D That godlike AI is really a pain in the ass, it seems that I need to dumb them down completely... Thanks for the feedback.

Well, they say Fournos, but the "place of interest" it's not exactly on Fournos but on the way there, some meters back. Thanks for your report - I will make some kind of hint for the player in case he really goes to the little island. I assumed that the player would see the houses and car etc. on the way there, but again I have to realize that the freedom Arma gives is a challenge for the mission designer. I'll optimize that.

Hope you can finish the campaign, you almost made it through the the exertions and sufferings. :D (at least for one of the multiple endings)

Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 17 Mar 2017, 20:51:13
Quote
I will make some kind of hint for the player in case he really goes to the little island.
They could just wonder among themselves that since there seems to be nothing there maybe they missed something and should head back to shore and investigate :dunno:

I guess I came close though because I did go to the pier after the boat sped off from there  :P
Of course I saw all the stuff but tried to evade any contact (obviously first drove head on to the roadblock or whatever, to die)..

Quote
That godlike AI is really a pain in the ass
I have recently spent a lot of time with the AI (while updating that old mission of mine here) and it is really annoying on all fronts (the autocombat being the most annoying), civilians probably have really bad camouflage value not helping the spotting issue. :hmmm:

You could try fiddling with the civilian guys' unit trait "camouflageCoef", that should make them less spottable, or fiddle with the enemy's spotting related sub-skill values :dunno:
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 18 Mar 2017, 00:34:26
Ok, that setUnitTrait command looks interesting. I'll check it out. Thanks.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 18 Mar 2017, 08:04:51
The AI sub-skills like "spotDistance" and "spotTime" (or something like that) are also quite effective.

If you're using 3DEN Enhanced (and you definitely should be) it has all this stuff easily adjustable.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 18 Mar 2017, 11:09:30
I used it once and (as weird as it sounds) my experience was that it left decencies in the mission so that it was needed to play. Or rather said: Without it certain functions / parts wouldn't work correctly. That's why I gave it up. But it was an earlier version of 3DEN Enhanced so I'll definitely give it a try again, but not in this project.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 18 Mar 2017, 20:08:45
AFAIK 3den enhanced has never caused any dependencies.
However, there's something odd with A3 because a mod of mine I had loaded when I first played this campaign (it's a 3den mod) somehow inserted itself into the savefiles and when I then tried to resume a mission without my mod loaded I would get notification how your campaign requires my mod that was not loaded. After 15 years of fiddling with this game I thought I already had seen everything but I guess not...  :scratch:

Quote
Hope you can finish the campaign
Hope springs eternal, after 8 times watching the slow-mo cutscene and trying to hipfire the gun not hitting absolutely anything I'm pretty much ready to call it quits.  :dry:
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: mathias_eichinger on 18 Mar 2017, 20:29:17
I am loving the Cold Truth cutscene, but the Into Obscurity mission is nothing but frustrating.
No matter what door I use there is always some sort of bad guy closing in and finishing me off. Impossible. Our hero needs a handgun below his pillow to stand a chance.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: johnnyboy on 18 Mar 2017, 22:29:52
Hey UnD,

Great cinematics.  I'm guessing you will voice it later.

I didn't get very far, but here's some feedback.

Pros:
- Great cutscenes and character development.
- Cold Truth scene watching the news especially well done.
- Got a chuckle about them watching Dying Embers...nice touch.
- Cool music during dream sequence.

Fix:
- News headline says "For dead".  Should say "Four dead".

Cons:
- For me, first missions are way too dark.  Can't see in forest when leaving auto house.   Couldn't see harldy anything in dream sequence.   After dream, couldn't find the door out of building for a few minutes because I couldn't see it.  Consider a different time where there's more light in sky, or providing a light source in rooms.
- Can't escape uncle's house without being killed.  I got frustrated and gave up.

Am I supposed to use hand-to-hand combat move on someone?  If so, I don't see an action, or have no instruction how to do that.  Running for doors gets me shot every time.  I'm guessing you want to build tension with a "narrow escape", but its too hard for me.  Either make it easier, or provide a hint somehow about how best way to escape, or maybe script a distraction (cops drive by?)  that draws attention of assassins, and allows you to get away.  Why does there have to be multiplle assassins?  A kid escaping one armed assassin who just murdered his uncle might be scary enough for this part.  If there's only one, then getting out the door and running would be a doable escape.

I see great potential here dude!

JB
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 19 Mar 2017, 20:16:08
Fear not, guys, your (VERY appreciated!) cries are being heard, :D I'm almost done with the next version which on one hand will have brightness adjustments and on the other that part (and also others) won't be so unforgiving hard as it is now.

Thanks a lot for your time and patience.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: mathias_eichinger on 21 Mar 2017, 19:02:06
Ok, then I'll wait for the next version before I continue with the tests.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 26 Mar 2017, 18:17:27
I'm sorry but simply can't finish this because I have now watched the damn slow-mo cutscene at the containers for like 30 times or more and obviously failed equal amounts of time..  >:(

I was able to once even hit the guy but apparently he is wearing some Level 4 BIS'd Armor because I pumped a half a mag into the guy and he just grunted couple of times and shot me in the face (for the 30+th time).

EDIT:
I don't really get how you could ever win this, probably now tried 50 times and the guy sometimes shoots me basically before the player character becomes responsive after the cutscene..  :no:

Do something about this cutscene stuff because it's seriously annoying having to watch the thing million times only to be killed 0.6 seconds after it finishes and watch it again..
You should make it so that if the cutscene has been seen once it would continue from right after player's guy gets his weapon when you die and have to reload (savegame doesn't have to be on that point, some scripting  with missionEventHandler "Loaded" should do the trick).
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 27 Mar 2017, 20:16:20
I'll see what I can do with the cut scenes so that the player doesn't need to watch them again.

The killer can be killed though, Clayman at assaultmissionstudio.de could finish it. Nevertheless I increased the time the player has to kill him. Coming up in the version too.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Clayman on 28 Mar 2017, 20:54:00
Yeah, that was quite a tricky one. Took me several attempts to beat (not nearly 50, rather 10 or 15 or sth). It was a completely different challenge. But that's exactly the point. Undeceived, you do something that most mission creators today don't do at all: You tell a story. It's this very special, unique style which I so much enjoy. It's rather an interactive movie than an arma mission, just like ftloaf. So I'll never complain about your design.  ;)
BUT: I have to agree with h- here: Although I totally love your cinematics, watching the same cutscene over and over and over again is indeed quite annoying.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 28 Mar 2017, 22:02:37
Ok, 10-15 times are way too many times too. :D I'll take a look at the cut scenes. An if()then{} check in combination with a variable (e.g. _thisCutsceneWasWatchedAlready) should hopefully do it. If I run into trouble I'll get back to you.

Thanks a lot, guys!
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: savedbygrace on 01 Apr 2017, 00:31:42
Good to see you around Clayman.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Clayman on 01 Apr 2017, 11:04:11
Thanks.  :) Good to be back in the editing business.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 07 Apr 2017, 11:27:08
Hello guys,

first of all thanks to all for the patience and time while testing the campaign.

The new version is in the first post.

Changes:

V. 1.2 (beta)
The last point includes some attention to the cutscenes, tuning down god-like AI a bit more and giving the player a bit more of time in critical situations (showdowns, etc.).

Hope it's playable by now...  :whistle:
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 08 Apr 2017, 14:25:49
Just a side note, if playing on DEV -> CTD in the very first cutscene when the camera starts to move with the text about 2021 financial crisis still on the screen.. There were couple of split second freezes and then CTD.
I'm assuming some mod is not compatible with the DEV version or somesuch.. :dunno:

I usually launch the game on dev because it's on SSD and the stable is on insanely slow (way slower than regular) storage HDD...

Anyhoo, still have absolutely no interest to read the BIOs of the main characters, dunno why, somehow it just feels boring :dunno:

- Nice touch with the selfie as recon pic (was actually thinking of that when I suggested the pics)  :good:
- I have waypoints now, yay!
- In the cutscene where they watch the news about auto-elite in the last POV shot of the TV (behind someone's shoulder or something) the TV shows the news in German
- The shake killers task is now easily passed; still ran out blindly, and managed to box myself in into the neighbor's fenced yard but gladly they didn't follow me there, got killed though because foolishly ventured too close to the house when going for the next task -> seems the shortened cutscene thingy works, at least with the uncle stuff.
- In the same mission I can put on a police uniform but seems that the baddies still immediately recognize me. Dunno if anything can be done about this though. In the following cutscene I have the default clothes on again, but in the next mission (the police station) I again have the police uniform on.
- Police station went without a hickup.
- Well, other than I got wounded in the previous mission enough to require a medic (FAKing yourself doesn't make the guy stop moaning) so now I seem to be in need of FAK on the start of each following mission; was at the beginning of the police station mission and now on the beginning of Manos..

EDIT:
I'm assuming there's a bug in Manos because when I get the task to find Costa he's standing right next to me, he actually came back right after the shooting started, he just walked into the walled-in Manos' backyard from the broken wall opening in it and I thought he was a baddie first and shot him but he was unwoundable..

I did have to reload the save after Manos gets shot because got killed a bit later, maybe that breaks up something :dunno:

EDIT2:
If I go where Costa is supposed to be the escaped guy is there and the conversation with Costa still plays as normal.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 08 Apr 2017, 20:48:51
Quote
when I get the task to find Costa he's standing right next to me, he actually came back right after the shooting started

I added a stop true in the scripts now so he should stay at his waiting position in the next version.

Other than that I disabled taking over damage to the Manos mission as the guys had the whole day to rest and patch themselves up.


Thanks a lot, h-! :good:
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 09 Apr 2017, 13:20:45
One thing I forgot to suggest for the 'shake killers' mission:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anyhoo, back to the mission Manos:
- I'm a tad confused about how to save Manos now (getting to him, or out of his yard is really annoying now as you've blocked the hole in the wall from the previous version as the sniper can shoot in 100% accuracy in two second intervals.
I did some fiddling (because CBA allows the debug console while in-game) and got costa to stay at where should be so was able to get to what he wanted me to see (doStop didn't work, had to disableAI "Move"). The problem with this is though that I have two choices from which to choose and the choice B makes no sense because how can I claim to know what to do when I have not been revealed one single method to disadvantage the sniper? The smoke nades are nowhere to be found anymore apparently (unless they're in the car and completely missed them)? The tire idea Costa provides seems to be absolutely brain dead; how am I supposed to get to the ATV when it's directly in the sniper kill-zone when it's about 15% chance to make it alive to the house to begin with?  :dunno:

EDIT:
Been at this about a couple of hours now and I don't see any other way to save anybody unless doing a massive hike behind the sniper :dunno:
Also, costa is constantly injured for no apparent reason, whenever I go near the guy the 'treat' symbol appears ???

Oh, and there seems to be a waypoint created for you when you need to find costa? It doesn't disappear after you find him.

EDIT2:
Was finally able to finish this, it took me 5 tries this time to kill the final baddie.
Didn't experience any bugs in the final mission.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 09 Apr 2017, 16:50:47
Well, there are 6 (or depending how you count 7) ways to save Manos. The mission was heavily expanded (before the update there was only one way - the smoke grenades). Some of the solutions are absolutely easy, some require speed and skill. I thought that the player should look around and find them out, like what would work if this was reality, what could I use, what could I combine, be creative and so on (if there are more ideas I'm looking forward to read them!). I tried to not make the solutions too obvious, giving lots of hints, etc. That said, some are right in front of the players nose, one makes a noise, many of them have to be "thought to the end" by the player, some are even pretty elaborated little quests like in a RPG (e.g. the tire burning method and another (also smoke related) way).

The question now is: How can I make the player move through the area with an eye and ear and being open minded for all these possibilities? What I'd rather not want is to present him everything on a silver platter. Any input is appreciated. :good:

Killing the sniper and using the quad to ignite the tires and drive it to the right spot are just two if these methods.



Hm, you're right, the strangle animations sometimes are not synchronized. I'll see what I can do about it.

Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 09 Apr 2017, 18:11:54
I was suspecting that there are several ways due to the added objects (and you mentioned you were planning on adding a few).
I tried approaching a couple of them but no actions or anything popped up, tried shooting at one or two which had no effect so gave up.

Besides, it's really annoying trying to do anything because 9.9 time out of 10 you just die (and after two reloads it gets really annoying that you have to wait all the god damn fades and crap to get to press the load button).
After the tire idea by Costa I couldn't even get behind the parked car on Manos' yard without dying so no way to get to the ATV or try to figure out something else around the building.

Also something weird happened several times: if I ran at full speed crouched too close to some object the player character could just suddenly stand up, I guess one more bug in BIS animation system or something.
Was annoying because it could mean a headshot from the supersniper.

Quote
How can I make the player move through the area with an eye and ear and being open minded for all these possibilities?
In Hitman (the old ones) the player's character would turn it's head to look at interesting things around it (if close enough). Of course it's a 3rd person view game so would not translate directly into this but maybe something similarish :dunno:

The character saying stuff like "Maybe I could use that..?" and such might be a bit too obvious.
It's a tough one.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 09 Apr 2017, 18:48:44
For a start, I guess I'll tune down the sniper a bit. :)

Yeah, exactly - what else could I do than hinting with sentences (which I did in some places) and showing camera moves towards the objects? That's a really good question. :)



EDIT:

Quote
I tried approaching a couple of them but no actions or anything popped up, tried shooting at one or two which had no effect so gave up.

Can you elaborate a bit more on that?
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 09 Apr 2017, 21:09:26
Quote
Can you elaborate a bit more on that?
Not sure if I remember even, it's a bit crazy to play two campaigns (one in A1), try to fix my own old mission(s) and code an eternity project mod of mine simultaneously (and work in a dayjob in two shifts) :P

I think the trashcan was not in the space between Manos' house and the white building right next to it in the earlier version so tried approaching and shooting at it (IIRC) and then there was the trash heap behind Manos' house that now had some weird stuff like I guess a american football or something, tried approaching it but got shot in the neck so then I tried shooting it to no avail. Can't remember if I tried anything else.

I did fiddle with all vehicles that I could without getting shot.

Quote
For a start, I guess I'll tune down the sniper a bit.
It creates a nice mood for the mission though so don't tune it down too much, just a hair.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 11 Apr 2017, 20:26:56
Anyone else wants to add something? Otherwise I'd soon release the next version in BIF, SW, etc. Of course any other feedback is much welcomed later too!

Again, thanks a lot for testing! This is what beta phase means to me. I want to release it publicly as stable and developed as possible. Don't like it when missions are still in beta status and unfinished open to everyone. This is why OFPEC is and always was a goldmine for me. Serious and committed beta testing. :)
Many thanks to the master of suffering h-  :weeping: :D and Clayman at assaultmissionstudio.de too!


h-, some final questions:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


EDIT:

And (most important):

How was the adjustable brightness? Really need some feedback on that.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 11 Apr 2017, 21:45:38
The adjustable brightness worked well.
It was maybe a bit cumbersome to use because it was behind so many 'steps', but that's the menu system.
As it resets on each mission maybe add an option to 'restore' previous setting so you can have the same brightness setting easily :dunno:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 11 Apr 2017, 21:49:07
Good idea. Will implement the latest brightness setting into the inits of the mission.
Up to now I only loaded them in intro/outro cutscenes where the player can't set anything.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 21 Apr 2017, 10:47:31
Meanwhile I released a new version (v. 1.4) on SW and BIF. I'll update the first post soon (I'm at work atm), just wanted to make sure no one takes a look at v. 1.2.




EDIT:

Ok, first post is up to date now.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 25 Apr 2017, 20:26:46
Damn, again with this..
 :P

Is there any dangers in skipping missions (ENDMISSION), or does something break down if I do?

EDIT:
Got the following error message in 'Into Obscurity' when choked WOLF 2 and started driving around in the car looking a way to Costa or whomever:
Code: [Select]
Error in expression <awn DAC_fShowRadio;
_searcharea  = call compile ((_zskill select 10) select 0);
>Error position: <compile ((_zskill select 10) select 0);

Manos:
There's a chance for trouble when you find Costa; you can order him to some combat mode and stuff but if you then OK him to show his idea he will be stuck in them.
So if you set him on combat for example it gets really annoying to wait for the guy lay down somewhere being afraid of contact, and as you know it can take a while for the AI to wake from these combat slumbers it goes into.. Probably wise to snap him back to whatever modes Costa was prior joining player's group if the player OKs him to show his idea.

There's also these in the rpt
Code: [Select]
23:47:03 String STR_manos2305 not found
23:47:03 String STR_quadtipp3 not found

Then, if Costa is wounded you can waste your FAKs healing him even though it requires the custom healing thingy to be used. You can 'remove' default actions with uiEventHandler, dunno if there's other ways too.

EDIT 2:
Ok, now I see what you did there :P

Too bad Arma's user action system is absolute horror show.. Almost 20 years and they haven't realized to fix that (well, they don't seem to care to fix the absolutely idiotic way doors etc are opened either..). >:(
Really fun to go hunting for the pixel to point at to get some god damn action showing.  :dry:

Still at a loss as what to do next after collecting all sorts of crap  :scratch:

EDIT3:
Almost forgot to mention:
Found the guy with the smoke nades so went with those.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 27 Apr 2017, 20:50:17
Cool, didn't expect you testing it again! Much appreciated! :good:

That script error comes out of the DAC... No way I can fix that I think.


Quote
Probably wise to snap him back to whatever modes Costa was prior joining player's group if the player OKs him to show his idea.
Will do, thanks for the idea!


I created a small "walkthrough" for the Manos mission. If you're interested, check the "additional info" section in the first BIF post.
https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/topic/203629-spcamp-underdogs/


Quote
You are a fan of melodrama I guess
Hmmm, guess so. :D Can't do anything about it as it seems. :D :D

Thanks A LOT for your time, h-! Great job!
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: h- on 28 Apr 2017, 12:48:38
Read the walkthrough thing, so I was one ingredient short :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 28 Apr 2017, 17:26:42
I suppose you found the powder sugar and the heatpacks in Manos' shack but didn't find the workshop or realize you can create the bomb in there? There's a trigger inside "Create smoke bomb" (if you found the main ingredients) and if something is missing, the player character will tell what it is.

When the player first finds the sugar and the heatpacks he says that maybe he could create a smoke bomb. I will add the sentence: "But I'll probably need a workbench or something like that." So that the player keeps his eyes open for the workshop too. Then he will know what's missing.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: mathias_eichinger on 02 Jul 2017, 11:52:46
Hey undeceived,

I just retried this campaign and I am already stuck with the first mission. Even when I boot up the PC with a pulled monitor cable to avoid the monitor's brightness to alert the guard, he always finds me. What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 09 Jul 2017, 12:16:16
Hi mathias, if you're not lying on the ground or crouching, he will always catch you. Booting up with the monitor cable doesn't make him catch you, he only will say something about the company and that's it.
He'll catch you depending your stance or if you leave the back door open (then he'll check out what's going on).

I suppose you're playing with the latest version found here?
https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/topic/203629-spcamp-underdogs/
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: mathias_eichinger on 10 Jul 2017, 17:32:54
I am playing version 1.4 which can also be found on Steam.
I am unhappy to report there is a new bug in here. I paid attention to my stance and closed the door, and suddenly, a few seconds before the USB stick pinging to signal that the copy is complete the door busts open and the guard arrives. I loaded my savegame twice to make sure I did not accidentally hit the action menu.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 12 Jul 2017, 09:14:29
I'll check this out. Thanks a lot!

Normally it should go like this:
Pick lock, enter building, close the entrance door, crouch, pick office door lock, boot up PC and copy stuff, pull stick/shut down PC, leave.

The guard will catch you if:
He has a line of sight on you outside, if he sees you standing in the office.

He'll go inside the building and check out the office if:
You leave the first (entrance) door open and he sees it open. But, if you're ready and finished copying, you can hide between the cars so that he passes you while going to the office.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: mathias_eichinger on 06 Aug 2017, 11:57:48
Hi Undeceived,

sorry for getting back a bit late to you, but the key was the open first (outer) door of the Garage. Now it worked and I can see if I can do the next mission.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 08 Aug 2017, 20:06:57
Ok, thanks a lot, I'm glad that it was not a bug.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: mathias_eichinger on 28 Sep 2017, 21:10:57
I did not find much time for playing, but Into Obscurity is as impossible as always. Never mind which door I choose, I am always met with quick death. Will I break the campaign if I cheat-endmission?
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: PatrickNis on 20 Apr 2019, 12:31:27
Was this changed at all? I think the endmission was bugged back in the day.
Title: Re: [SP/CAMP] Underdogs
Post by: Undeceived on 25 Apr 2019, 19:55:06
Hi man, I worked my ass off on this campaign, so it might very well have been changed from the last time you played it. However I don't know which version you tried out, so I can't answer your question completely.

What happened for you in the last mission?