OFPEC Forum
Missions Depot => Mission Discussion => Topic started by: Tomasz on 08 Dec 2004, 17:16:46
-
Well, I was just falling asleep the other night, when this strange image came into my head.
Imagine if D-Day was a failure, with an outcome of 120,000 US deaths and about 30,000 US POWs, the Allies would have not been able to liberate France before the Soviet Union did.
Imagine the Soviet Union capturing the entire continent, and numerous sabotages on the Nuclear Research on both sides would make a non-atomic conflict shortly after the fall of the Third Reich between Stalin and Thruman.
Since the US army would be really week by now, USSR would first land in the Florida Keys to prepare there, with the help of Cuba, to an Invasion in Florida, in 1949.
Now the picture I was talking about in the beginning, was a wave of Soviet Higgins Boats landing on the beaches with Soviet Conscript ( now veteran ) infantry against the week National Guard on the beach defences ::)
The campaign would feature the Soviet preparations in the Florida Keys for the Invasion of Florida.
What a change of situations, isn't it :hmm:
Oh, and i think all the addons are there :D
Tomasz
-
I imagine the Manhattan Project would continue if the invasion was a success or a failure, maybe even more so. Although.... if the situation was to stay non-nuclear it would work.
There are also better landing locations than the Key's.... however I think the idea of the attack on America is a good one. Just perhaps move the location from the Key's to somewhere a little more suitable.
-
Hmmm. I'm no history proffessor but I reckon that The Red Army would've been to drained to even think about going on offense against America if they would capture both The Theird Reich and France and all the countries between. Alone. Not to mention a big part of their infrastructure and their people were slaughterd druing WWII. They just wouldn't have the resources. While the US Army still had loads of resources plus they had the advantage of fighting on their own land. Not even Stalin would be that stupid to launch that kind of offensive.
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
-
Where is Britain in all this? Would they have been taken over too? (Very unlikely I think). Apart from that I like the idea.
-
I dunno, I think its impossible that stalin would have gone for world domination, but I also think its impossible that Russia would invade a bunch of islands called Everon, Malden and Kologev. Its a game! It doesn't matter if its unrealistic, the main story line is made up itself. So realism doesn't matter. ::)
If someone did make this mission, I would download it. It seems a good idea to me. ;)
-
with the help of Cuba
unlikely, since Cuba was practically a US colony until the socialist revolution under Castro in 1959 so it wouldnt really help
plus i share doubts that the Russian army would have been able to have a war vs America. After 26 million dead (1/2 of the eventual deathtoll from the world) I doubt the USSR would have been to keen to attack the American superpower. it is a common misconception that the Soviet Union was out for world domination - it wasnt but rather wanted to spread communism through rather more subversive means.
-
It's not the Red Army that invades the Malden Islands, it's a renegade element under Guba's command, not under Moscow's, so it is a bit more realistic. ;D
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
-
Ok, I've spent some time on research and came to a conclusion that this in anyway would be impossible due to the fact that the American supremacy in economy was 3times higher than the USSR, plus USSR would never stretch itself across the Atlantic ( Americans ruled there ) and the USSR never had the fleet.
I think this topic is solved then.
I'm sorry for the forum space I took. :-\
Tomasz
-
Well I got a PM asking me if I can unloch this thread due to the fact that the idea is good.
So guys, if you want to see the Soviet flag on the white house, you need to start making a new history from 1918. Hope you get good ideas and will develop the story well enough so that the Russians would have the capability to land in US by 1949.
Only realistic ideas please, a real "what would happen if" scenario.
Tomasz
-
Is this going to be a campaign, or a very long single mission?
-
It depends from you.
Tomasz
-
I think this would make a very good campaign. ;)
The only problem is that USA was still using Shermans then, and didn't use the M60 until later on, so you would have to use late WW2 addons. Same for russia. They would still be using T-34/85s.
You would also have to find USA weapons, cos the M16 wasn't around either. Maybe you could use M14's? :P
At least you could keep the AK47s. ;) But officers would have to have AK47's instead of AK74s.
-
Ok, we have to totally change the history of the world after the end of WW1.
You can post your ideas, but try to post them in chronological order. Once we get to the very situation when USSR lands on the beaches, we'll make a summary of all the events that happened.
So let me start with the first fact:
In 1917, during one of the clashes on the western front, a young corporal was killed by a shrapnell from a grenade that blew up in his trench. He was born in April 1889, in a small Austrian village Brunnau am Inn. His name was Adolf Hitler.
Follow the chronicle mates!
Tomasz
-
Right you are, here goes...
Germany looses WW1 in 1918. It is left in tatters, and communist jews attempt to take control of the depressed country (same as they did in reality).
They succeed though (unlike in reality). As time goes on, unions are formed, and war is taken out of the question. There hasn't been one in 50 years...
But in 1968, Russia (still communist) suddenly merges with communist Germany, forming the greatest military super-power the world has ever seen. Europe fall instantly to their invasions. The world stands, shocked, unable to do anything but lay down their guns and join the enemy. Europe, Asia and Africa fall to Russian/German hands. Just one continent stands in their way.
America.
South america is unfit for any war at all, and don't even try to fight. The majority of the Russian army stands in Colombia, on the American border. Here stand the finest Defenders in the world. Russia fails to breach the stronghold time and time again, so the communist army decides to take a secret new front. Florida.
I kinda went on for too long, but the story works. ;)
Or at least, I think it would work...
-
Why are we attacking Florida?
There isn't much there. Wouldn't the russians/germans/whoever go for Washington DC, Eastern cities, or west coast cities?
Then I see it as the Russians having a lot of difficulty taking the Rockies and Appalachain Mountain chains if they got that far. Guerilla warfare? :P :)
-
So after WW1, the USSR has shifted itself on maximum productivity of a suprior naval force. They built battleships, destroyers, carriers, cruisrers, and used all the brains in germany to get all those tech advances: new tanks chassys, tank armours, new guns, projectiles, new engine technology, air land and sea warfare doctrines superior from the old ones due to the new available technology.
Since WW2 never happened, the European demography never collapsed and the US never curled out of their isolation policy, although their economy was booming and their navy was growing too ( from the fear of the Russians )
Now in order to even think about the US, USSR needs a supply base like US had England in 1944.
I propose central America. Massive Soviet convoys would stretch to central america in order to "help" the nicaraguan communist gov fight honduras. The carribean sea has to be controlled by USSR.
Now find some ideas where we can invade an island ::) :P
Tomasz
-
Why not somewhere like the carrabein (sp?) or the Guada islands? They're in between Russia and America. :P
-
Mayby the New Orleans mississippi delta?
Tomasz
-
quote from greg147:
communist jews attempt to take control of the depressed country
did they? its just that im studying this in history and i know that the communist spartacists tried to seize power but im not sure they were jews - that may have been one of the rumours spread by the Nazis in 1932 when they began 'removing' communist paramilitary members but im pretty sure it wasnt just communist jews
-
Ah, well if your studying it, your probebly right. ;)
I got that bit of info from a TV series about hitler, and how he came to power and all that. It basically went on about how 'communist jews' (As I thought I heard it) went about destroying German war statues and tried to get into politics.
But I may have got that completely wrong and made a complete dumbass out of myself :-[
Either way, it doesn't matter. It sounds like they're going with the Navy idea ::)
-
Well you need the navy to even think about crossing the atlantic with a couple of million men.
Tomasz
-
Yep. You do. But that wasn't my point. My point was that you asked for help in a storyline after hitler was killed, then just used your idea as if nobody had said anything. ::)
But it doesn't matter. Its your mission, and you know how its ment to go ;)
-
:-[ Sos for that, got carried away :P.
Right now you can follow, ill just comment. No more ideas from me :-X for the moment.
Plus there is still a lot to add.
Tomasz
-
I just read the beganing part and skipped a bunch so if i seem a little out of what is going on, that is why.
I while back, i had an idea that the soviet union invaded the U.S. after the vietnam war. (not to much people responded) If someone could make soviet 70s units, it would work....since US vietnam units would work. After the vietnam war, the US army was looked down apon and many people though america was not the world power it used to be.... so that is why the USSR could invade... this time with the help from cuba..because castro is in power now....
...just an idea, i had more about it that i remember, if you like the idea, i can say more. ;)
-
How would u solve the USSR supply shipments and where would you set up a supply base? Where would you want to attack the US? How would you make it a non-atomic scenario?
Cuba turned out to be a bad place in my idea. It's too small to support any kind of force concentration and is too easy to assault from the US.
The best spot I found was central America, but to be able to even concentrate the Red Army there, USSR would need to achieve supremacy at sea, which with their economy in comparison with the US is impossible.
If taking facts into account, USSR was only a superpower due to its nuclear deposits and would never stand a confrontation with the US mainly from a technological, military experiance, morale level, and economic points of view.
That's the reason why I decided to change the history 30years before the conflict to give a chance ( a coincidence chance) to the USSR, with their ambitions to land in the US.
:gunman:
Tomasz
-
Oh, and BTW, the closest i've seen to 70's russians, is either the ones that come with the game (1985), or the ones that come with the campaign "Life story" by spanky G (1955).
-
...so this is a 70's campaign...groovy.... ok it's not a good joke. :( .The biggest problem with this campaign is te map! which map will you use. you could use a map and "say" it's america but that is a cheap way out, but if that is the only way out and you can get it to work, it would be great. ;)
-
Some guy was making a California island, but its not finished yet.
Hey, i've had an idea. If WW2 never happened, Japan wouldn't have taken the risk of attacking Pearl Harbour, so they would still be waiting for America to go to war with someone so they could attack. You could make it so Japan allys with Russia, and then Japan makes a move to destroy the US navy, whilst Russia invades................... (the island which we havn't thought of yet)
-
Japan could make an invasion on Ouahu, and secure the island :o, destroying the enire US fleet.
Tomasz
-
Japan and Russia would never ally. Since the little war they had in the 1900s, they both had a negative view of the other. After the war (ww2 that is) russia built up there navy, and if we are changing history for russia to plan this invation, they could be building there pasific fleet for... how many years. Also, i forget who said it, the thing about russia countroling central america was not a bad idea. Since russia would be planning this invation for a while, the could have time to do this, for example, they would supply rebles who support russia and the communist ways. ;)
-
What about Russia attacking Alaska? Across the Bering Sea?
Then down the coast or something. Only problem is the island needed, sort of.
They could invade the big archpeligo there, its called uh....
something.
Lets attack some eskimos! :P :P
-
You mean the Aleucian Islands? Nice idea. Some winter islands. winter campaign. Plus the soviets are good in the snow :) :D
Tomasz
-
A good excuse to use my winter units ;)
Maybe you could do the mission on winter kodiak island
-
Any screens?
How big is it?
Would it fit the northern pacific paysage?
Tomasz
-
Kodiak island is about as big a Nogova, but has bigger towns. It has acouple of lakes, some mountains, and some training grounds. As for pacific paysage, it just looks like a snowy Nogova with more towns and a different shape.
-
...I beleive the Soviets would not attack America through Alaska, that would be foolish. It would be asking for a defeat. The Soviets would possibly invade San Fransico, it has a big harbor and natual formations for defence. Good for unloading troops and supplies for more advancement. They would leave Alaska alone because it doesn't have any militia woth attacking.
the Soviets would have to act fast to actually defeat the Americans. That would have to be placed in the campaign (people setting up fortifications and then you moving out). Since the Americans have a far greater foce and men devoted to defend their country, it would be a long and difficult campaign for the Soviets. Even some covert missions would require time (and extreme effort) to finnish.
-
The Soviets would never invade San Francisco for they would never have any supply bases in the area, and if the US would notice the fleet comming ( and they would ), they would sink it 300km from the shore.
USSR would have interest in attacking Alaska due to its oil deposits. Alaska would be a base for further operations, and US would find it difficult to fight in freezing conditions.
another option is an invasion through Mexico. Mexico would benefit getting back Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. the USSR would have land supply lines and the US would find it difficult to flank such a huge army over such a spread out terrain. In addition to secure the mississippi, USSR could land from Mexico to New Orleans, but land pathways would have to be opened to Mexico.
Tomasz
-
then if they would invade Alaska, Canada would get involved (and so would others with a domino effect; NATO). The Soviets would be forced to invade San Fransico.
Not many people know this but the japanies actually called back a minisub that was 2 1/4 miles away from the LA coast on Dec 6 (it was for recon). And there's speculation on why a NAZI submaire is at the bottom of the New York Harbor.
So if the soviets sent out a fleet of submarines to attack the area, the Americans would be weak enough for an air attack. then finnaly, an invasion of San Fransico. It would be tough, but the soviets would have a strong foothold on the continintial US.
-
oh... just a little correction,
Mexico did take the bait with the Zemermen note (from NAZI Germany)
-
Well, Mexico seems like a good place to start, but isn't it mostly flat desert once you near the USA?
Then I think the superior american airforce would prolly destroy most of the Russian war machine.
Alaska would have oil, and well I can't see Canada being a major obstacle though. If the Russians could get streams of men and supplies and tanks over the Bering Strait quick enough. Attacking the continental USA would hard no matter how you do it...
Unless we had lazer gunz... :P :D :P
-
Ok, so lets say that the fighting has begun. USSR opened two fronts, one in alaska and one from Mexico.
They have new generation AA and outnumber the US with the amount of aircraft.
Heavy fighting is going on, and US progressively loses land. On the pacific however, to make sure that the supply lines to Mexico and San Francisco are save, USSR has take the US amin harbour, Pearl Harbor.
Thats why General Zukov gets orders from Stalin to invade Ouahu from the north with the 34th Infantry Division. In the desperate battle of the Pacific, the US send General McArthur on the site with the 341st National Guard.
They arrive 3 days before the invasion, and are able to organize themsleves somewhat when they witness their fleet forced withdrawal from the battlefield against the Soviet fleet. It is inevitable that they'll land soon, in a mater of hours.
"Don't ask what America can do for you, ask what you can do for America"
Tomasz
-
hmm... then the Americans would send troops from Midway and Iwo Jima to Hawii. Then Troops from Berlin, Germany, France, And Great Britain to invade the weakened area of western USSR. Then obviously take moscow in a matter of weeks.
You have to remember that the US forces were not limited to the US, they were all over.
-
We already said that D-Day was never a success and that USSR secured the entire European Continent. US tropps in the Pacific are facing the Japanese. The 3million US army in Britain, which makes most of US forces, lets say ::), had to return to the US from economical and social causes.
Except for Ouahu, the Soviets may also attack the Aleutian Islands to secure northern pathways.
I also thought of a new addon, it's a remake of the C-2A Grayhound that was originally made for transportation in the 1960s, but would make a good plane for short range navy tactical bomber.
Tomasz
-
and that USSR secured the entire European Continent
*cough* Spain, Sweeden, Switzerland *cough*
Then the middle east and african countries came to aid the Brithish and American forces, and the US would send troops to persuade the Japanies to join forces with the Americans (by bribing them with much needed oil). Korea China, India, and French Indochina would all attack the Soviet Union fron the east. They would have to push through Siberia where they would find "enemies of the poeple" and they might want to help in the overthrow of Stalin.
Also, lets not forget Aulstria....
-
Why do u complicate it so much. ??? :-[ :( :hmm: :tomato:
Tomasz
PS. The countries you mentioned would never have the resources in terms of men.
Japan has imperialistic ambitions, it would never go along US rules.
Spain Swiz, Sweeden would be very easy to take.
-
Well... because i'm American. ;D
well... unless the Soviets have some big oil plant hidden somewhere that they could use for many years, then the middle east is a good spot to get allies
-
Why not have the invasion in the 1960s or 70s, giving the soviets enough time to build up after WW2.
-
that would be too late for the Soviets to attack, NATO, SEATO, OAS, and UN would have been created by then (I know, the UN was made after WWII, but it took real effect during this time). They could try, but i'm sure a presedint like JFK would talk many nations into comming to US aid.
-
True :wave:
Tomasz
-
hmm... as you said in the begaining, "...D-Day was a failure" This would have to be addressed to the Americans wouldn't it.
*clears throught*
My American Brothers and Sisters,
Efforts that was exersised this morning, have failed. The sad morning of June, two days previous, cost many lives wich fought for freedom. The invasion of Normandy, France has been claimed a defeat. Our commanders have pulled back to the sancuary island of Great Britain. But, the Island is not expected to stay safe for much more than two weeks. The Battle of Britan will be once again, fought. Americans, this threat cannot be overlooked by our nation. Our fellow allies is in a danger to which we must answer. America needs you to take up arms. Great Britan, Aulstrilia, France, Poland, Norway, Finland, the Czecks, Egypt needs you to help save them.
This is a time to prove that America is nation to be dealt with in seriousness, let us not let our nation fall because we did not try to stop the same threat. Let us not let our way of Freedom fall because we did not attemp to stop the same threat that stares us in the eyes today. Let us not give our Sons and Duaghters a life to be dispised due for our sluggish feet. Let us not, Let us not, Let us not. Do nothing.
-
The only peroblem with having this right after-around ww2 is the russians have a very small navy (i think) and don't have time to rebuild. And about not taking plae in the 60s or 70s because of the UN...i think the UN was formed in 1944...if not, it was 1945. Also if it takes place in the 60s-70s, china could help, and maybe even N. korea, it would even the odds. And china would probably pull up a draft... that army would be BIG! ...even the odds a little.
-
If Russia not having a navys a problem, heres an idea. What if, when Russia defeated the Germans in 1945, they captured nearly every german battleship, submarine and PT boat they could lay they're hands on. Then they have a big navy and a big army. ;)
-
I think we sank like the whole german navy before 1945 so they had not much left...but we can change history if we really need to. Also a front that everyone is forgeting is the italian front, was in right before of after d-day, the US and UK invaded italy, how do we get past that? ...the germans push them off maybe?
-
It is clear that Monty and Patton were competing for the laurs. Lets say Monty made a coup on Patton which the Italians used and encircled the British forces on the mainland.
British forces would be sloughtered, and Patton would have to, from political reasons, wait for new British units before entering Rome. Quite a delay isnt it? :o
Tomasz
-
The wait would not be in vain... the US would have sent 200,000 more men after the successful landing at Normandy... were would the men go :hint:
-
ok, lets say the allies loose D-day and something crazy happens at italy, Russia then takes over all of europe (exept switzerland- try to get an army throught those mountains ;) ) The tentions between Russia and the allies begains when Russia does not let France be an independent nation. Since Russia would have taken all of Germany, they would have all the sceintest up for grabs, so the USSR would build an a- bomb not to much later after the US. The Allies would have countrol of Japan, the middle east, some asian countries around india, the philipeens, and most of africa. When china goes communist China and russia could try to push as much allies as they can off asia and africa (they would do this after some of the allies are demobleizized. While this happens, North Korea can invade South. The Communist hope to spread the allies too thing. Lets say the Communist and the Allies sign a truce with russia on the winning side. The allies then let japan have an military and load the there remaning land in asia and africa with troops. The communists would see the main country in the Japan-UK-American alliance would be america of corse. If they take over America, the world would be theres. So there plan begains...
...so what do you think? ;D
There may be many flaws but it makes it so the UN and Nato never are formed.
I think making it a 60's or 70's campaign would be really cool, but that is just me. It would give time for the Russians to rebuild after WW2. And there are already U.S. 60s-70s units. Although Chinese, Russian, Japanese, and British 60s-70s units would have to be made... there is the advantage of a 40s-50s campagin...all we would need is Chinese units. ;)
-
thats a very scary though... the NAZIs was building a deltawing much like the B2 (actually the B2 was made from its plans but don't tell anyone i said that) that could carry the payload of the Nagasaki A-bomb.
AND, could reach New York from Paris, don't know if it could come back but i know it could reach it.
-
ok, it seems we have got a background, know what about the campaign... is this going to be a 50s campaign or 70s or even modern. Were is the campaign going to take place and all the other important information. Why I bring this up is because no one has responded in like 9 days.
-
I go for some sort of an island. We could be a support part of a much bigger operation. Invasions of big superpowers tend to include millions of troops. We dont want that in the campaign.
I suggest creating a bomober support on the pacific in terms of the Ouahu island.
Quick three day operation with many twists and all. :P
Tomasz
-
Tomasz is right about the millions of troops, but it could take place on U.S. soil. For example, lets say the russians attack an area that is not very populated with troops. Lets say in the 100s. The Russians would have 1000s in the area. So your out numbered troops have to fight of the russians... reinforcements can't arive right away because the russians have invade sucsefully lots of beaches...or something like that. ;)
-
Isnt Hawaii a US soil?
If you would land a low populated area in the US, the US would have tons of reinforcements comming from inland.
I'm still after Ouahu.
Tomasz