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Missions Depot => Mission Discussion => Topic started by: Drozdov on 19 Aug 2003, 20:28:14

Title: 'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 19 Aug 2003, 20:28:14

At the moment I am currently working upon what seems to me like a fine (although not yet fully developed) idea for a campaign (especially as it provides a more interesting alternative to all the American missions out there). The protagonist is a militia soldier on the Czech island of Malden (test for authenticity - when did the Czech Republic achieve independance from the Soviets? I think it was the 70s but I'm not sure), a small force of part time soldiers consisting of about 30 men, in which he holds the rank of Corporal. His two other friends, also Corporals, will also play an important part in this campaign. I chose the Czech Republic because that's where they're supposed to belong to (note the names of the resistance soldiers and the flags on some of the house objects), however I know very few Czech names and still have not decided what to call the main character or his friends (suggestions please). Anyway, the situation is this; the leader of the island of Malden (something like a prime minister/president but he would have to be subordinate to the Czech leader and therefore needs a different title - again, suggestions please  ;) ) made an agreement with the Americans that allowed them to maintain a presence on the little island to the East of Malden (one of the reasons for choosing Malden as the location) in exchange for something or other (trade benefits or whatever - it's not really significant). This state of affairs does not please the militia, and in particular our three 'heroes'. However, the campaign starts when one morning, the leader of the American forces issues a message to the President/Prime Minister/Whatever of Malden informing him that he wishes to meet with him in person at his offices to make an unspecified 'offer'. Your small squad of militiamen is informed of this and ordered to form up a 'guard of honour' to escort him to the offices. The first mission is intended to be largely cinematic, if my limited camera scripting skills aloow for this. There will be an intro explaining the situation, then the mission starts with your squad at the eastern base (close to the American island) awaiting the arrival of the Colonel (American leader - is this sufficient rank to command a 'training' base?). He will then be taken by truck (with you as driver so you don't get too bored) to the offices where the mission ends with another lengthy cutscene, showing the object of the Colonel's mission. I'm not sure if I can manage this, but I want to show the meeting between the Malden Leader and the Colonel. The colonel comes up with an 'offer' to give the island 'protection' from Communist forces who he claims are planning a military take over. He offers to place American military leaders in charge of the islands militia group to help train the forces to increase their efficiency and equip them with modern weapons and vehicles; including tanks. Unpleasant consequences of refusal are hinted at  ;). The Malden Leader accepts, reluctantly. This causes mass upset amongst the militia men, and this anger is fueled by our three heroes (it emerges that they have have socialist leanings). I'm getting tired of all this typing (no doubt you're tired of all this reading too), so I'll stop being detailed. Well, the backlash of this results in numerous unpleasant events. I've thought about militia men killing their American trainers or something along those lines (maybe blowing up equipment or somesuch). Ultimately this ends in the assassination of the Malden Leader and the retreat of American troops from mainland Malden. They then announce that the island of Malden is under attack from Communist 'irregulars' (a term used in the last Iraq war - thought it might be appropriate here) and announce their intention to 'save' the island from the insurgents. Obviously the militia are in trouble here. And that's enough to go on for now. I'd like comments on anything I've said so far so I can improve this idea (it's not perfect yet) and also any general hints on making a good campaign...  :joystick:

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 26 Aug 2003, 15:48:24

Quote

our three heroes (it emerges that they have have socialist leanings).

<----- Lookout! ----- <

Hmm... Very well! Indeed, chosing the Czech Rep. for a battle scene is a very good idea, as, from what I've seen on a czech movie (Czeska televize), most of OFP objects, vehicles, cloths and houses are based on the czech away of life (a prision guard, for example, wares the same cloths as OFP's policeman; the motorcicle and cars are czech made, etc, etc... Besides, Marek Spanel [well written?] is czech, and so does his project: OFP [his project?]).

But I don't have much to say...

Beside the story, now you must focus on the scenes, how will the story run.
See "Resistance", for example? I doesn't begin exactly from the begining ::); you know, you'll reach that intro cuttscene by the ending of the story... And it's not right in the ending!
So, try to give some sugar on the scene chain, think on these scene tricks and, of course, try to be the most original you can.

The american proposal is so and so... Tanks? I don't think so.
Think about special operations with Deltas, seals and other guys instead, in support of the militias, which refuse. The refusal would still make the americans act, yet on the leader's side.
Though I'm talking about special operations, they don't have to be dressed like a Black Op and the missions don't have to be played at night. Check specialoperations.com (http://www.specialoperations.com) for more info (and to get some ideas).
Remember that special operations can be a trigger for langer conflicts.


If you need any help with scripting and this campaign mission making, I'll be at your dispose.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: VipNatePimp on 26 Aug 2003, 17:39:44

Hi, part of my famliy is from chzech and they live with me, if you need any names words, etc just contact me

nm11_13@yahoo.com

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: max_killer_payne on 26 Aug 2003, 18:57:12

The opening paragraph about your idea sounds alot like the game Republic: The Revolution !!!  ;D  Dunno, whether you got inspired or its complete coincidence  ;D

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 27 Aug 2003, 19:01:41

Wahey, I thought nobody would ever respond to this post. Only took a week...

Quote

The american proposal is so and so... Tanks? I don't think so.

What's wrong with tanks? I thought many armies did this; in order to help their allies they give them vehicles and train them on how to use them. In WWII the American Sherman tanks were given to both the British and the Russians in large numbers (even though they were dodgy... they weren't called "tommy cookers" for nothing  ;) ). What exactly did you mean about Special forces? I think you mean that he offers them the help of special forces teams to combat the supposed threat. However, would he offer this unless they were actually at war? Hmm, now that I think of it that is a good idea. The spec ops teams could be used to root out any revolutionaries (in other words, you, the player) and 'remove' them. I was planning on having the island full of assassination squads (particularly in the start before you've amassed much of an army) out to get you. Would be interesting, though perhaps a tad difficult and frustrating (snipers aren't much fun to fight against, or satchel charges for that matter ;)).

Quote

The opening paragraph about your idea sounds alot like the game Republic: The Revolution !!!  ;D  Dunno, whether you got inspired or its complete coincidence  ;D

Given that I've never played the game I guess it's just coincedence. How can this be that similar, though? In Republic you wander around the town gaining support by shouting things from soapboxes and giving backhanders and so forth. In my campaign you run around shooting Americans. Where's the similarity?  ;)

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: KJAM on 27 Aug 2003, 20:35:25

yeah its a good idea, and i thik drozdov is right in what he says
mind you from what ive seen so far the americans usuly sit on their asses and wait for something to bite before reacting but, im not goin into politics, if you dont liek the few word what i just said, ignore and forged em :D

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 27 Aug 2003, 20:54:51

Ah but they have an unusual definition of the word 'bite'. And they usually bite back first. But we've already had our wrists smacked for such talk, so let's get back on topic...

Just thought I'd say this...

I intend to have the Soviet's get involved, but not directly. That would be diplomatically far too dangerous so all they do is send weapons and so forth, which they could probably just get away with without provoking a major war.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: KJAM on 27 Aug 2003, 21:34:22

yes my brother! lol maybe you should go the way flashpoint originally did, the bad guys, alebit russian are actually a split faction (fictional of course) just like in ofp, i know its a bit samey but it avoids all the political isues, hell they might not even be russian from what ive been told weapons etc are a large source of income for russians
but i may be wrong lol

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 28 Aug 2003, 15:40:03

What's wrong with political issues? So long as they're my political issues, of course  ;). A-a-anyway...

Don't knock the Soviets for having a large arms industry. After all, weapons are one of the largest British exports (they won't tell you that on the BBC news). It's about the only British industry that hasn't collapsed  ::) . Though I think it's true the Russians are even bigger exporters. They sold the rights to make AKs to almost everyone (and their dog). And Russian tanks are everywhere, in particular the T55.

I think I prefer the bad Americans being state-controlled. After all, how likely is it that they could break off from the government? I hardly think the soldiers would want to go to such risks without any good reason. When you think about it, the official campaign story line was a bit wooly. Why would a Russian general break off from the state, putting himself in real danger, just to attack a couple of tiny wee islands in the middle of nowhere? Just to be a big nasty evil bald man? They don't even have any shops  ::) ! Though my Americans won't really be all that evil exactly, just kind of... bad. In a more realistic way. I will try and make it less simple (not so black-and-white) and not have any super-evil events happening (no bayonetting babies and so forth). Or if they do bayonet babies then at least they'll have a reason... "It shot at me, honest sir!"

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: KJAM on 28 Aug 2003, 19:11:31

nah i wasnt knocking the russians i like them :D they make one of the most reliable weapons out there (the AK's of course:))

as for the other thing, it could be a russian (or whoever you want the bad guys to be) platoon that ALL of them were dishonourably discharched etc and now seek revengde

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 29 Aug 2003, 01:28:47

Errrr... About the tanks... again. ::)

When americans sent the shermans to russia and so, they did it to support them against a worldwide enemy... The WWII, then.

But your 'revolution' is not gona be as big as the WWII, is it? ::) ;)

EhEh! Don't get me wrong... I'm just trying to contribute for your campaign's realism. ;)

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 29 Aug 2003, 16:20:58

It's standard practice to send all sorts of guns, tanks and so on to help allies. Both the Russians and Germans did it in the Spanish Civil War as well. That wasn't a particularly big war. Okay, so it was bigger than any conflict on a tiny little island of farmers could be, but still... The sending of tanks and stuff didn't only happen in WWII. Anyway, it's not as if the Americans couldn't spare them. M60s they would be, not M1A1s. Armies always give only obsolete technology (well, the M60 isn't that bad, though it is the worst tank in the game with the possible exception of the T55). I think it's a realistic enough idea. The motive behind the proposal is more of an issue to me. Though I suppose that the Americans, even ignoring political matters, wouldn't want a socialist government in an island they were using as a training base... I reckon they'd do everything they could to boot an American base off.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Bulletsfire on 01 Sep 2003, 00:59:22

i think its a great idea. BUT i think you should have some deeper reason for the americans helping. Like make the training base be more valuable. i dont think the US would take such a risk of war w/ the soviets over just a small training base, yet alone caring that the russians took over such a small island (malden). They, realistically, probally would only care if the island were rich in somthing like oil or uranium or anything nuclear.

ps-if you need any political info/stuff governments would do/ react to just contact me!

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 01 Sep 2003, 04:10:24

Yeah, I don't think the U.S. would risk nuclear war with the U.S.S.R. just because of a little base. A possible explanation for the U.S. wanting to hold the island might be: About 10 years before the conflict in this campaign, a U.S. F-111 carrying a nuclear bomb was on a flight over the Czech island this campaign is about. The F-111 developed an engine problem, and was forced to make an emergency landing on a small, flat island near the main one. The landing was messy, but the crew lived. They detached and buried the bomb as deep as they could, with the intention of coming back later and retrieving it with a black op team. Unfortunately for the U.S., a radical socialist faction on the island decided the little island would be an ideal place for a new, secret base, and constructed one before the black ops could move in. The U.S. couldn't send in troops against this faction without causing an enormous incident, and so they were forced to leave the bomb and wait. 10 years later, the U.S. assists the rebels with the intention of using the rebels to smash the faction on the little island. "Unfortunately", a large napalm explosion will blast the little island, killing everyone on it. While the resistance wonders what the hell happened, U.S. black ops can waltz in, grab the nuke, and exit. No one will be the wiser, and in case the communists did seize the main island, the new government wouldn't have a pre-built nuke at its disposal.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Bulletsfire on 01 Sep 2003, 06:22:36

OR... the revolutionaries had some LARGE financial backing and bought a nuke off the black market. and the us must now intervene so if the nuke goes off, the russians wont think that the americans supplied the revolutionaries with the nuke. thus starting a whole new world war... the war that will end the world and cause armageddon.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: KJAM on 01 Sep 2003, 06:39:19

why does the US always have to be the good guys, thats something im sick of, the Russians are 99% of the time portrayed as bad guys in mission and its getting repetetive, id prefer it if it was something like Terrorists or an unknown faction using russian equipment and not russians themselves

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 01 Sep 2003, 21:16:22

Umm... did I not explain my idea enough or did you lot get bored reading the original post and just skim through it (Don't take that the wrong way I'm not angry or anything) ? I thought I'd made it clear the Americans are the 'baddies'. Well, I'll try to clear the air a bit...

The Americans want to take over the island's government, and are using the threat of a communist take over to essentially impose their rule on Malden. The island is somewhere in the North, quite near Russia (okay, god knows why this would be Czech territory, but hey, I have to leave some things that people can complain about once it's finished). I think you guys are right about the lack of a real motive for the Americans to risk themselves for any little base on a little island, and it was something I had given some thought. I'd already decided that the Americans were looking to use Malden as a missile launching site into Russia (which is fairly close as I've said... it wouldn't give the Soviets much chance to intercept it at such short notice). However the president of Malden (who I've called Benes as a historical reference  ;) ) is none too keen on this idea as he realises that once the Soviets learn of this Malden will be regarded as a threat to their territory, and will of course have a few missiles pointed at it in readiness. Which isn't nice. Also, at a time when the Cold War was thought to be coming to an end, he realises this will be seen as a step backwards and maybe even provoke another situation as happened in Cuba. Well, the campaign starts with the American leader coming over to make an agreement with Benes, ostensibly over the 'security' issue. However, his real motive is to reach an agreement that gives the Americans permission to use Malden as a nuclear launch site (would he really need to do this? since the base island technically is American territoryy...). This would be a secret term in the other agreement already described in the first post. Secret terms are fairly common I believe.... take the Cuban missile crisis. Not many people know that this was actually sparked off by the Americans putting Nuclear missiles in Turkey, which borders Russia: obviously this was rather worrying to the Soviets. A secret term of the agreement reached (that made the Russians withdraw the missile they sent to Cuba) was that America would remove it's Turkish missiles. A similar situation could occur on Malden if Benes allows them to use Malden for a nuclear site. He rejects this term but accepts the other terms. The American is not too happy but accepts this for now and goes off to receive further orders on how to proceed. Unfortunately, you the player and your friends do not realise exactly what is going on and think that the emergence of American troops on mainland Malden is a sign that he is collaborating (they don't know about the nuclear thing yet). Hmm... maybe I shouldn't tell you any more about the story in case I spoil it. It's getting better now I'm thinking about it. Now I just hope I can get it done.

Just to reiterate the situation with the Russians (once war breaks out between the Americans). They will not get involved directly, although the player's militia army tries to involve them. However, there are factions within the Soviets that sympathise with the militia group and eventually they decide to send aid to the soldiers (secretly of course, though I might make the Americans discover this). Also the Soviets will be working for a 'diplomatic solution' that forces the Americans to cease its operations. I think I'll need to read up on some UN laws... Anyhoo, chew over what I've said for a while and see if you can add anything to it...

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 02 Sep 2003, 02:44:57

Yeah, in my idea the Americans would be the bad guys, but it would give a reason for why the U.S. would engage in military action against a tiny island. They'd want the nuke, so they could use the excuse of protecting the democratic government to cover up their real motivation, that is, grabbing their nuke.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Bulletsfire on 02 Sep 2003, 02:49:35

good, but as you said, there really wouldnt be any reason for the US to need to ask permission. So that is now, in my opinion, the last whole in the main story plot

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 02 Sep 2003, 19:57:44

I think I may have a bit of plaster to fill the hole  :) . Let's say that the original agreement that allowed the US to use Little Malden (I think I'll use this name for that island off Malden  8) ) as a base specified that they were not allowed to store nuclear weapons there.

Hmm, I seem to have made another hole. Why would the Americans accept this at first and then change their minds?

And m21man, I have to say your idea is a bit far-fetched. And also too different from what I was originally wanting to do with this campaign. Maybe it could be an idea for a new campaign though...?

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Bulletsfire on 02 Sep 2003, 22:51:23

ha once again... good but now like you said theres still that hole. but i have an idea:
          lets say the americans at first wanted to put a nuclear base there, but decided instead of asking right away and being denied, they would wait awhile and build up a fair sized military presence. Now, that they have that presence they go in and ask the president for permission to build a nuclear base and hope to intimidate them, and if necessary, force them into complying.
       Well, hows that?

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 03 Sep 2003, 20:11:13

Of course! That works. I'll use that, thanks 8) .

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 03 Sep 2003, 20:28:33

Okay, I've downloaded an addon that gave me an idea (it was the Antonov... a big, huge, feck-off cargo-type plane, and it's Russian obviously). I've decided to have a scene with the Soviets flying in (that's flying in, rather than flying inside by the way) an Antonov, which they say contains humanitarian aid for the people of Malden. This could perhaps be after the Resistance has been forced to call a ceasefire due to their lack of supplies. However, the plane also contains a large shipload of weapons and ammunition for the Resistance fighters (a way to help their Socialist brethren without starting a war). Thus armed, the Resistance can continue the fight, this time with superior weapons. Hey, when were the AK103 and AK107 invented? I'll include them if it's plausible.

Well okay, it's not that great an idea but when I tested the AI's ability to land the Antonov I was greatly impressed. It looks great! I think it would be visually very impressive... you could also have a whole load of ammocrates created in the Antonov Open (this is an object version of the Antonov with it's cargo doors open... you can walk and drive inside it, though the ais won't do it) which would look very nice.

Yes, yes, I know the Americans would probably notice this but you don't need to point that out. They would pick it up on the radar. But I think that diplomatically the USSR could get away with sending in 'aid'. And the Americans wouldn't know what was in it unless the Russians allowed them to inspect the contents. And if the Russians refused what could they do? I think the Americans would be too scared of starting a major war with the USSR to make too big a fuss, not that they would allow it to go unreported. But what are suspicions without proof?

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Bulletsfire on 03 Sep 2003, 22:45:09

Well I'm glad that my idea helped! 8)
   and by the way where did you get the antonov?

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 04 Sep 2003, 21:42:38

From here...

ftp://www.gamezone.cz/ofpd/unofaddons/Antonov124.zip (http://ftp://www.gamezone.cz/ofpd/unofaddons/Antonov124.zip)

Quite nice really, as addons go.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: KJAM on 04 Sep 2003, 22:10:20

how about this.....the plane has a russian nuke on, in component parts because its faulty, the plane is merely flying over the island where the mission is, on its way back to russia.........beforehand US moles sabotaged the plane, which results in it crashing, conviniently in the sea near the US base........the US steals the nuke, the crew drowned and thanks to the "unbroken" deal , as far as the president of the island the mission is on knew, about havcing no nukes on the base etc etc.....and thanks also to a nieve president of the island, the official report is that it crashed and the nuke components were carried away to sea by undersea currents.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 06 Sep 2003, 15:04:47

Eh? How would I fit that into my idea? Let's get this straight: the 'nuke' is not the major issue here. The campaign focuses on the militia guys and the Malden people. They aren't fighting over nukes, they don't even know anything about the American plans to place a nuclear missile until near the end. The idea behind the nuke was to provide a semi-plausible reason for the Americans to be fighting you for control over a worthless island. And anyway, I don't think you'd want to be anywhere near anuclear crash site... Scavenging it should be impossible, and also unnecessary given that they could just ship in one of their own nukes without so much hassle.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 09 Sep 2003, 05:38:40

Just curious:

This campaign will run during cold war or after? I'm pretty sure it's during the CW... But, as I've seen you guys planning US military bases on east block territory, I got a little confused...

And nukes? Why nukes?
The F111 idea isn't bad, but it would perfectly fit another campaign, as Drozdov said...

What this campaign is all about is political affairs, according to Drozdov's original post... So let's keep the interests on that.

Now, what could be done to improve the storyline would be locating this campaign's timeline at the end of the 80's, when the soviet union started to colapse.
This would give reasons to the americans to be politicaly intersted on having infuences over the 'rotting' (excuse my expression) east block...
And, of course, as from one side the americans would try to "set free" (ON THE AMERICAN WAY) the east territories; from the other side, militias and soviet forces would try to keep the east territories free from the capitalism and americam imperialism.

Then, the problems would dwell on heroes' interests and the leader's...

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Bulletsfire on 09 Sep 2003, 05:47:53

lol you are a genius!

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 11 Sep 2003, 03:32:36

 :hmm: Thank you for the sarcasm...   ::)

My post might be empty of material ideas, but at least I could try to avoid non-senses with US bases...

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Bulletsfire on 13 Sep 2003, 01:44:06

no, realyy, i wasnt being sarcastic that is a good idea! :)

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 16 Sep 2003, 13:05:25

Sorry for my silence, been busy doing work for a week or so and haven't had any time to do my campaign.

Right, well, I'll deal with Kommuna's points...

You're right about the nukes. I don't really like using them as they're often components of twee and pish story lines. But I thought it would explain why the Americans wanted a base there. They had nuclear bases in Turkey after all, for the same reason as they might want a nuclear base on Malden. And they have normal NATO training bases all over the place. I think I'll stick Malden in the sea (I think its the Baltic) that's between Denmark, Finland, Estonia and Sweden. That makes it slightly more plausible that the island is Czech speaking. Plus, it's probably still close enough for a nuclear missile to hit anywhere important in Russia. The problem with the nukes is the timezone. I was intending it to be in the 80s... unfortunately, I doubt the Americans would be much interested in acquiring new nuclear bases at this late point when the Cold 'War' looked like ending. So we need to think of another reason for American interest in Malden. Komuna's suggestion is kind of workable and I might use it. But what does everyone else think? The only alternative to changing the motive is changing the time zone but I can't be buggered working out whether or not each bit of equipment is an anachronism. It's unnecessarily complicated.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 17 Sep 2003, 12:19:14

Don't forget that, beside the 60's, the 80's were also very hot. And the EuroMissiles crisis (20 years after the cuban missiles crisis) is a example of that!

In 1987, SS20 vs Pershing2 was still a dangerous reallity... Only about 1988/89 the nukes were beign disabled.
Note: The SS20 resembles the SS1SCUD, yet a bit taller.

*
About placing the Malden islands: well... baltic sea it's more a place for scandinavian speaking islands or russian speaking islands - don't forget that Kaliningrad - in spite of being off the russian main territory - belongs to Russia. And Czech Rep. is closer to the Balcans than the Baltics.
Hmm... placing those islands seems really tough, uh?! ::)
Check the maps (maps from the soviet times, of course) and see if you can place it somewhere in the Mediterranium or the Black seas. If not, turn on your creativity (once again, as the revolution cpgn is a good idea) and create a story about a czech expedition which found the Malden islands somewhere in the pacific, near Vladivostok and the Kamchatka.

*Edit ---------- Correction -------------

Well, it seems I'm completly wrong! I was confunding the Czech Rep. with Romenia...
Therefore, most of the above information is wrong. The Baltic sea is, indeed, closer to the Czech Rep. than anyother. So, forget the the Black sea and the Medit.
In what concers to the Kamchatka... After some research I found that it is an absurd idea, as most of the people that live there have asiatic appearence... and dialects.

Excuse this missunderstood. ;)

---------------------------------------------

Remember: back to the 80's, there was no Czech Republic.. only the Czechslovakia (excuse the spelling, but i don't have a dictionary right here  ;D)

Oh! and write Komuna, not Kommuna... here we don't use double 'm' ;)

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 17 Sep 2003, 13:52:50

Hey, I did spell it Komuna. Well, half the time. It just sounds like it should have two mms. And I never thought I would be quoted by anyone in their personal text ;) .

I think I'll try and find a big world map from 1985, close my eyes and stick a pin somewhere. Really I'd rather not make it Czech. The only reason I'm doing this is the default names of Resistance soldiers are Czech. I'd rather not have to make an identity for every soldier. Hey, here's an idea on why Malden might be Czech...

Okay, let's say that 800 years ago, some minor Czech prince was creating trouble in his country. He is forced to flee (with a small number of followers) and look for a new home. He then has an idea of setting up his own country. However, there aren't any mainland countries that are weak enough to be taken over, so he decides to look to the seas. He finds the small islands of Malden, and takes them over, with little resistance from the occupiers. He builds a castle (which the Resistance could use in my campaign though that's a bit clichéd) and declares himself king. Since his kingdom is too small to be of any real significance it's allowed to exist largely independently. It's populated by his Czech followers, explaining why they're Czech speakers.

There we go! There's another idea for you to pick holes in. I mean, improve  ;) .

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 18 Sep 2003, 12:31:13

First of all, check the correction I made. ;D

Now, if you're telling me that it happened (virtualy) 800 years ago, then that prince would be fleeing to the nearest island, somewhere bettween Sweeden and Polony... Hey! This is just a proposal ::)

Then, if you choose such place, why not at this coordinates: 55 30 N , 17 20 E.

Once the placing prob is solved, lets proceed to the storyline.... I think the timeline has enough discussion. ;)

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 19 Sep 2003, 15:39:30

Okay, enough about the location and background info. I've an idea but I'm not sure whether it's feasable. It's to do with radios...

Now, as a part-time small militia army, you're not really expected to ever see battle. Therefore, it's unlikely that you would all have modern radio systems. And therefore, I wish to implement this into my campaign. But it's difficult. Yes, you can disable the radios, b-u-u-u-t, this only means you don't hear anything on your radio. The messages are still sent and understood, presumabley telepathically. What I want to do is write a script that uses spoken commands rather than radio ones, though only between members of the same squad. Obviously this would have to use the same interface as the radio. Essentially the script would activate whenever a radio command was entered and then showed the corresponding spoken message. However, I don't know what the names are for the radio commands. And how would I use a condition that activated on a radio command? Umm, I don't think this will be possible. But it's a nice idea. It would also have to be impossible to contact squad members over a certain distance. And before you say that the Americans would be able to hear you, remember you're supposed to be speaking in Czech.

Here's another idea to do with radios. There would obviously have to be some way for the leaders of squads to communicate with each other. Therefore I decided I would have RT radios for this purpose (the Radio RT 249 or whatever it's called). These may be American but I suppose the militia guys could steal them at some point. I'd like to have some kind of custom interface that displays the controls of the radio on screen, which I believe is possible. You would have to use the controls to contact your fellow soldiers and send them messages. Nice touch, but again, rather tough.

Eventually the Russians would bring in some radios for everyone in their 'aid' shipment that I've mentioned. Hmm, perhaps I'm getting too ambitious with this campaign. Ah well.  ::)

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 19 Sep 2003, 16:00:42

The 'radio-on-screen' is possible through Dialogues, and those dialogues can perfectly handle 3D models, which you can make addons with... just to personalize the campaign.

About the lack of effecient radio systems:

Have you ever heard about Zapatists?! They're probably the most advanced guerilla warriors, who use Internet as way of spreading their message. And their weapons and technology are pretty cool. Look at their radio systems, for example.

This way you could give your millitia men a nice touch. And you wouldn't have to silence them.

Note: the 'stop' radio order can be verified by the 'stopped' command.
Nevertheless, it's quite a chalenge to remove radio messages and still give the possibilty of showing them through conventional text. The 'DisableRadio' really works, but even the radio labels will be removed... :(

What about the island.... what's its exact location?

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 20 Sep 2003, 21:03:45

I doubt they'd have radio communication systems for every man. Incidentally I think there will be about 45 soldiers in the army. Really, the militia was only set up by the President to deal with any political threats. And to give their members something to do on a sunday afternoon. They're not intended as a serious, professional, armed force. Therefore they wouldn't require advanced communications. And the internet had not yet been proliferated by the 80s.

Did you write this post in a hurry, cause some of it is rather unclear... Could you explain a bit more?   :help:

I'll sort the location out later. Meanwhile I'll try and do some work on the missions, which are still almost entirely undeveloped.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 20 Sep 2003, 22:15:51

Isn't 45 soldiers a bit small for a militia force for an entire island? Maybe you could have it so that the "army" was more like 20 full-time soldiers and about 75 part-time militiamen. When the American's invade, about half of the part-time soldiers just pretend that they have nothing to do with the island's militia. The loyal soldiers would probably be split into 10-12 men squads, which will hide in the nooks and crannies of the island. Of course, in the final mission you could have the remains of every band join up and strike at the target, presumably the capital.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 21 Sep 2003, 21:53:25

Well, not for a small island like Malden. Hmm, I'll count the houses and work out its maximum population. The army size will fluctuate during the course of the campaign as more volunteers join and your members get killed / surrender / desert. I was planning on having three squads in operations, plus one or two reserve squads. Each squad is led by one of the main characters.

Storyline Development

Right, I've thought up a new reason for American involvement. I'll explain the background first...

There is one factory on the island (which produces electrical goods which are exclusively for export). Obviously, this is one of the only places on Malden where any jobs are available. Taking advantage of this, the owner pays his employees peanuts. After all, they don't have much choice and if they quit/strike there are plenty of unemployed waiting to take their place. Right, now here's the present situation. The workers are pissed off at the way they are treated, and propose to form a union to improve their power. When the owner hears this he fires them all. This enrages the workers, who then stage a protest at the factory the following day. When the newly hired blackleggers (I believe this is the correct term...) try to get through, a fight inevitably breaks out. The factory owner telephones the President's office for help. The President then sends in the militia to 'restore order', which is where the player comes in. Most of the squad are rather uneasy at the situation they are placed in, and sympathise with the workers on strike. The three main characters are obviously outraged, being left-wingers (and maybe members of the Malden Communist Party, I'm not too sure about this yet). And predictabley when they arrive they do not put down the strike. The player convinces the two parties (strikers and owner) to hold negotitiations. With the backing of the militia, the owner is forced to give way, and gives them back their jobs. However, once they have all gone, he gets back on to the president and complains. The president is worried about the actions of the militia and suspects they have been infiltrated by the extreme left. He issues a statement condemning the strike, saying that "such violence cannot be tolerated" or some such, and announces his support of the factory owner. He also says the workers cannot form a union as it would endanger Malden's only industry. The workers react angrily, and the three main characters join them in their demonstrations. Eventually they decide to occupy the factory, kick the owner out, and announce the creation of a Workers' Council to protect the rights of all workers on Malden and represent them at government level. I'll have to work out what relationship they propose to establish between Council and President. Anyway, the president regards this as a threat to his authority and declares a national state of emergency. He turns to the militia for help; they inform him that they do not wish to get involved. With nowhere else to turn, he asks the Americans for aid. He claims the democratic constitution is under threat and insinuates the Communist element of the Workers' Council. The Americans are fearful of a Communist take over and agree to help 'maintain order and protect democracy'. They enter the country, and go to arrest the Council members. You and your friends manage to escape their clutches. The President then dissolves the militia. The climate is right for a revolution...  :o

It's a bit different but I like it. It works, and it's more realistic. Oh, by the way, I've decided that Malden will be an independant state. If it was Czech the Czech army would get involved and that's just too complicated. So it's independant but Czech speaking. Of course, I now have to rework the missions I've done... But hey...

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 22 Sep 2003, 11:00:55

Quote from: Drozdov on 20 Sep 2003, 21:03:45

And the internet had not yet been proliferated by the 80s.

EhEh! I'm not telling they should have Internet... All I'm doing is giving the Zapatists example of technological development. This way you could use such exemple for your mission.

Now, about the 45 militia men: sounds OK! Why should we have more men? The guerilla tactics can easily handle with an entire company (look at Guevara's example) or even more... And this why just a few men, lets say 30. However, in OFP we must allways have more men, as it's easy to get them killed in service... ::). So, 45 sounds nice... Maybe 47 (EhEh!)

About your last post:

Are you sure you wanna Malden for your missions? When you talk about Malden I think about the whole island complex (Nogova, Malden, Everon). Nogova has better environmental conditions for mission and it also has bigger urban areas.

So, the industry would have private owners, right? This way we're not talking an already socialist republic... We're talking about a capitalist one whose workers revolt and set up their own democratic ideals.
Just tell us if it is that way. ;)

And the player? Is he one of the three revolucionary guerilla men?

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 22 Sep 2003, 17:58:03

Yes, the factory owner is a capitalist. The President is actually not right-wing; he's kind of a liberal, but fears communism. And yes, the main character is one of the three revolutionaries.

I'm sure now that I want to use Malden; I've spent a few days setting up the island template with all the necessary locations, to make it more life-like. Malden also has a military island on it which is an integral part of the storyline. The Americans probably wouldn't get involved unless it happened right on their doorsteps. Nogova would really have been more appropriate, but I've never really liked it. It just seems kind of soulless and I don't like the atmosphere. Plus my crappy computer hates it with a passion. It's only benchmark 700 or something.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 24 Sep 2003, 10:39:55

Quote from: Drozdov on 22 Sep 2003, 17:58:03

Plus my crappy computer hates it with a passion. It's only benchmark 700 or something.

EhEhEh! And mine is a 400MHz... And it still likes Nogova (though Lypany and Petrovice can be a kind of laggy).
Have you tried to set lod settings and Visual Quality to maximum and reduce terrain and texture performance...? It will improve!

Now, lets forget this off-topic comments and proceed to the storyline:

As the workers revolt against the capitalists and consequently against their government, what's the american's role in the story? How will they get involed and why?

I know, I know, they want the base; but, why during the proletarians' revolt?
Maybe cuz there were already a few negociations in order to lend the base to the americans, but the revolt becomes a real threat to it. ::)

(http://petiskao.planetaclix.pt/HiddenStuff/KomunaMorMel.jpg)

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 24 Sep 2003, 17:38:07

Yeh, mine is 400 mhz too. Benchmark is flashpoint's rating of your computer system... some people complain that 3000 isn't high enough. And I was exaggerating a little... it only hates it when loading up housed areas.

Well, the Americans get involved as the Malden President asks them to help, since the militia has told him to sod off. The Americans don't expect to be fought against, and they won't be at first. They think they're just going in, sitting around until it all blows over, then leaving again. Their commander agrees for three reasons; firstly, he himself is a right winger (as most of the American military seems to be) and therefore fears Communists. Secondly, he expects that a Communist government would do its utmost to eject the American presence from their doorstep. And lastly, the Americans are told by the President that if they help him, he will allow them to stop (or decrease) the payments which they are making for the use of Malden's territory. I don't mean a rent by the way, it's more like they've bought the land and are paying for it in installments. Once the President is assassinated ( :o ) the Americans would find it diplomatically difficult to simply abandon the country to a non-democratic government. Plus, they see the opportunity to quash the revolution and stick in their own puppet president who would allow them to use the whole island for exercises and so forth. The tiny island they have isn't that useful for training tanks and things.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: BronzeEagle on 28 Sep 2003, 02:54:50

How about the U.S. came to stabilize the region due to the unfair conditions, poor way of life, and violence.  It was a human rights violation at first.  U.S. came in to establish democracy if needed by the council of citizens there.  The citizens and resistance agreed to a cease fire and adopt a democratic union of cities or whatever.  The Russians went about it another way, by smashing the government infrastructure at the major cities and then taking command from scratch.  U.S. bumps heads with the Russians, the resistance and civilians get involved impartially, and you got a flashpoint.  Two sides with clear goals, and a third side that sides with a stable government at any cost.    

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 28 Sep 2003, 14:28:43

Umm, how about no?  ;)

If you read the rest of the thread you'll see that I don't want to portray the Americans as nice fluffy bunnies coming in to save the world from badness. And the Russians aren't getting involved directly; certainly no soldiers will be sent in. The campaign focuses on Resistance communists fighting against the American (semi)occupation force.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 28 Sep 2003, 17:20:46

Are the Americans going to bring their best technology to the battle for Malden? The campaign would be far easier with M60s as opposed to M1A1s :o .

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 28 Sep 2003, 17:26:39

You ruled out Everon as the island to do the fighting on? Those thick forests are really good resistance bases, though the more scrubby stuff on Malden is pretty good too. But there were more hills on Everon the last time I checked (A long time ago, though I have tinkered with FDF Karjala ). I would think that resistance fighters would hide in high areas to avoid being crushed by heavy armor. Of course, they have to be hidden while on the hills, or they'll get slaughtered by gunships :o .

Or you could use Kolgujev, which usually wasn't laggy on my old 400MHz comp. There's some great places for hiding bases on Kolgujev.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 29 Sep 2003, 11:07:40

Quote from: m21man on 28 Sep 2003, 17:26:39

Or you could use Kolgujev, which usually wasn't laggy on my old 400MHz comp. There's some great places for hiding bases on Kolgujev.

:hmm: Kolguyev is already destroyed and this campaign begins before any violent incident... It's progressive destruction.

On the other hand, Everon doesn't have any military interest, except the Airbase, which is very accecible to civilians, though. You may figure out in older posts that the americans want to negociate military influence and base sharing on Malden's territory.

In early 80's (When this campaign begins) the M1 was a kind of prototype. They've tested it and used it a few times, but the MBT was still the M60.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 29 Sep 2003, 19:08:15

I think they'll be keeping their M1A1s safe at home. Actually, tanks won't play that much of a part, except as something to run from. There'll be the odd M60 but not all that many. The idea is that your Resistance leaders choose their battles better than that. I don't know what I'm going to do about helicopters, though. They could make things rather nasty for our 'heroes'...  ::)

I have actually encountered some difficulty when looking for a good base site. Though there are plenty mountains. It's just that there aren't any hidden locations. With liberal use of the editor addons I could create a dense forest around it, and that would avoid the problem. But I haven't got round to it yet. Malden is the only choice for the campaign because of the base island. It's also the prettiest island :) .

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 29 Sep 2003, 21:32:50

I worked on some resistance missions a while ago, and one place I liked was the area to the east of La Trinite. There's a nice forest here, and there's a hill near here that's perfect for posting a camouflaged lookout. I'll go look through my old missions and see if I can find the locations I'd pinned down as good places for bases.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 29 Sep 2003, 21:36:14

Are you going to use Malden or Maldova?

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 30 Sep 2003, 12:47:11

Malden. I don't have Maldova, whatever that is.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 30 Sep 2003, 14:09:36

I think that it's named Maldova, it's Malden with high-res textures.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 01 Oct 2003, 15:16:42

Hey, Drozdov, we're starting to figure out how the Revolution begins, but... How does it end?

Could you make us flashback of the story, telling us how it begins, how it runs and how it ends...

Then our comments will surely come.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 01 Oct 2003, 17:06:35

Maybe the resistance gets more and more effective. They'll progress from small raids to ambushing convoys, and keep getting better. Maybe as a finale you could have a mission where the resistance hurls everything at the American base as a distraction, while a tugboat loaded with high explosives proceeds to the American LST which has just arrived with a fresh load of troops. The pilot of the tug has lost his family, who were killed in a bungled American bombing raid, so he has nothing left to lose. He pulls up right next to the LST and detonates his explosives, sinking the LST and killing hundreds of American soldiers. The public outrage back in America leads to calls to "Bring our boys home." and the Americans retreat.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 01 Oct 2003, 20:02:31

M21man

That's actually a decent idea, but it does need some work to make it more feasable. Why doesn't the LST radar pick it up? Why doesn't the LST blow the boat to hell and back before it gets anywhere near it? But I like the idea of sinking the ship full of reinforcements... as you say, it's unlikely they'd risk continuing the war after so many killed. Perhaps they could use an American ship? It would create enough confusion to give the driver time to reach the ship and blow it up. I might use that, thanks  :) .

Komuna

Typed your name with two 'm's again but I noticed it and changed it  ;) . Well since you insist, I'll spoil some of the story for you all...  ::)

After the events at the factory and the killing of the factory owner the Americans come in (a day or so after) as per the President's request. By this point the three main characters (when I say this I mean the player and his two friends and fellow communists) have led the workers into forming their own government; the workers' council I mentioned. The President hears of this and asks the Americans for help, and declares a state of emergency. The Americans come in and arrest the workers and cart them off to their island; but the three 'heroes' escape (along with a worker or two to make it more realistic). Obviously, they are already extremely pissed off at the Americans interference with the island. The capture of their friends makes them even angrier. It is then heard through the radio that the President has agreed to let the Americans use all of Malden for training purposes as part of the deal to get them to help him. Our heroes see this as the President selling the country to the American Army to save his own skin. They therefore determine to assassinate him before he does further damage. One of them makes a timebomb and all three head off and plant it next to his offices. Boom!

Of course this only makes things worse as the Americans are now able to claim that the country is under threat from a terrorist group looking to take control. This legitimises their presence there, and the UN passes a resolution allowing them to stay there until a democratic government is restored. The Soviets abstain but do not veto. The US moves most of its troops onto mainland Malden (I mean most of the troops they already had on their part of Malden, not the whole US Army  ::) ) and takes control of the militia bases. I could maybe use some help in regards to how the Americans would control the country. They're going to have checkpoints and so on to regulate movement, but what other procedures would they introduce? A curfew or something? Anyway, there's going to be an incident at a checkpoint in which a jumpy American soldier shoots at a car that doesn't stop in time. This turns public opinion against the Americans. With a little bit of agitation from our heroes, the time is right for a resistance movement to be born. They arm themselves from the militia arms dumps, taking the American guards by surprise, and also with any guns that some civilians would have had (hunting rifles and shotguns). Obviously this is not enough; there are less guns than soldiers. There is also very limited ammo supplies. It sounds like you're going to have to scavenge from the Americans... but I don't like doing that, and I don't like American weapons. This is where the Soviets come in. They contact the leaders in the night and offer to give them some weapons, in order to help their fight for socialism. Perhaps this should be conducted without the knowledge of the Soviet government; they would maybe not risk any involvement, regardless of personal feelings. Maybe a small group of communist activists in the army decide to act independantly. But anyway, the Soviet supplies allow the militia group to keep fighting. Of course, the Americans will suspect something and will probably recognise the equipment. But it's unlikely they could really do much about it other than whine. But anyway, on with the story...

Okay, the fighting has begun in earnest. The resistance group melts into the forest and hills, and conducts small operations against US forces dotted around the country. It's kind of a guerilla war of attrition. I'll work out what the combat missions will consist of when I get to them. I'm more than open to suggestions, particularly to any original ones to keep things interesting. There is one big ambush style mission planned. This has your forces ambushing a large transport convoy of troops moving north using the remains of two old towers on either side of a road (which I made with the editor addons by Kegetys) . This is going to be a long mission... the first part involves you placing your equipment (Russian KORDs, two of them, plus all your ammo crates and so on) in the towers, and perhaps some mines on the road or bombs in the bushes closeby. I think bombs would be more fun. Obviously the Americans will scout ahead (with helicopters) and spot any machine guns on the towers. Therefore they must be placed inside the tower out of view. If they are seen by the helicopter scouts then the game is up. If not then the ambush can proceed as planned. Part two of this mission is the actual battle itself. Success would mean a significant victory for the militia. This will be one of the most important missions in the campaign. I've done a little tester of this and it's actually incredibley hard. The Americans just jump out and massacre the gunners. But anyway... I'll work that one out.

I think I've written a bit much now. Maybe this is enough for you to go on at the moment...?

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: KJAM on 01 Oct 2003, 20:56:53

Quote

I think bombs would be more fun.

maybe you could use the CoC mines eh i know they are all american but claymores are like not too difficult for some people to come across (maybe during a raid on an american base?) which then can be used against them in the ambush

*grins at the thought of stealing an enemies weapon and using it against them*
im gonna have the CoC mines in my campaign Droz lol.  

as for the LST thingy, maybe it is docked or dropped anchor in a harbour that is used by civilians (i.e fishermen)

Quote

The pilot of the tug has lost his family, who were killed in a bungled American bombing raid

maybe the pilot of the civlian fishing boat lost his family to a mis-aimed bombing raid and voulunteered himself for the suicide mission

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 01 Oct 2003, 22:11:57

Here's how I thought it would work: The Americans use a tugboat to help guide their LSTs into the dock at their base. The resistance soon learns that the captain of the tug visits a "house of ill repute" regularly each weekend. They don't do anything with the information for the moment, but as the war grows longer and deadlier, they realize that the only way to cause a huge number of American casualties at one time is to destroy an LST as it comes in. So, they decide to use their information about the tug captain. Early one Saturday morning, three resistance soldiers stop the man at a tollbooth, and kill him. These three soldiers have all lost their families to the Americans tactic of blasting the countryside with cluster bombs in attempts to kill hiding rebels, and they are willing to die for their cause.

They disguise themselves as Americans, with their leader dressing in the uniform of the captain. They drive down to the docks, and enter the tugboat. They kill the other two crewman aboard, and then radio for reinforcements. A truck filled with explosives moves to the docks, where it stops. The "Americans" lug the crates of high-explosive aboard the tug, killing one guard who becomes suspicious. They then take the tugboat to the LST, which of course doesn't shoot at them. They get close enough to touch the LST and then set off all the explosives in one massive blast which sinks the LST and basically vaporizes the tug.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Komuna on 02 Oct 2003, 13:43:07

A small note:

Forget the tanks and heavy weapons for a while. That Island isn't appropriate for tank drills... Such strategic point is rather usefull as and airbase than a heavy armor base.

So, as the Americans come into the scene, they'll bring their birds (choppers - very important for island control - and three or less A10's - as a strategic measure) and their light/regular infantry guys, surely transpored by light APC's and BFV's. Tanks are usefull... Besides, do you fight a guerilla with tanks? No, you fight it with SpecialOp's and choppers.

We're talking about a very small island, a strategic point for air strike launching. bringing big ships and so seems improbable... Would USA send a single LST into the lion's cage (baltic sea) without appropriate defensive resources? But, they wouldn't surely send an entire or even parcial war fleet into a theorically 'peacefull zone' during the EuroMissile crisis of cold war.

hmm... EuroMissiles. Strategic points... There's another reason for using Malden as a strategic airbase.

Then, as things were getting worse for the american side, they would use the anti-guerrilla bombing methods (as they did in Vietnam) to cleanse a few forests... As the militia leaders would be aware of this, and aware of the constant chopper/rifle scoutings, several ciclic "homes", i mean, bases, would ensure their safety from unpleasent surprises...

...And so on.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 02 Oct 2003, 16:02:08

Of course the LST will be guarded (There's a U.S. destroyer addon out there somewhere :o ), that's why the resistance bombers will sneak in, disguised, on the tugboat.

As for the bombing raids, I'd use Hudson's F/A-18s. A cluster bomb from one of these, when set to a 100 meter airburst, will destroy most of Lipany :o ! Since all of the towns on Malden are much smaller than Lipany, one CBU would completely annihilate one easily (The 100 meter airburst setting has a radius of 400 meters!!!).

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 02 Oct 2003, 17:43:10

I could use the CoC mines, but I don't think I will. One of those mines is Russian by the way, the MON 2000 or whatever it is. The one that looks like a satellite dish. Maybe the Soviets would send you a couple of these... I might use it.

I think that Komuna's idea of them asking to use the airfield is a good one. After all, they don't have an airbase on their base island do they?

There is one problem about the tug idea; there is no tug addon. Oh, and why are the soldiers still on board the LST? When would they disembark, and how?

Umm... is it really realistic to have one cluster bomb destroying a whole town? Wouldn't it only destroy the buildings next to it? I don't think the blast could go through several houses. But I do plan to use bombs, which leads me on to an idea I had for a mission...

During the occupation there is a civilian uprising against the American occupying troops in La Trinite. The Americans have been searching some peoples' houses and arresting anyone who resists. The townspeople grab the few guns they have and shoot the surprised Americans. They then take the American weapons, pass them around and drive all the local troops out. Your Resistance troops hear of this on the radio, and there is much debate on whether they should go and help. The player argues that it would be suicide to go and reinforce the town, as he says the Americans will bomb it to hell. A few agree, but many of them say they should help the civilians; understandabley, as they have friends and family there and don't want to 'betray' them, and also they don't think the Americans will bomb them. In a vote it is decided to go and help the townspeople. Militarily this is clearly a huge mistake. However, the player is forced to lead the group to reinforce La Trinite. The townsfolk are obviously delighted to see them, and they soon set about organising a defence. When the American counter-attack comes, they send insufficient troops; they have not bothered to spy out the situation and don't know that they are facing your Resistance army as well. This allows you to repel them, (hopefully  ;) ) an embarassing defeat for the Americans and a large psycholigical victory for the civilians, as well as the resistance. However, the Americans fall back on their superior technology. Or in other words, they decide to bomb the town to shit in revenge. And at night the bombers fly over.... the first time they have used bombs on Malden towns. The islanders are shocked and angry, leading to more volunteers for your army. What happens to the residents of La Trinite and their Resistance helpers is a secret for now  ;) .

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 02 Oct 2003, 19:44:05

Yeah, the lack of a tug addon is a snag :P , but there's got to be an appropriate boat of some type that could be used.

As to the cluster bomb, sure it could destroy a town! The one I'm thinking of ( Hudson's F/A-18 pack ), has a script that allows you to adjust the blast settings. The "Lipany Smasher" setting is when the cluster bomb releases it's bomblets 100 meters in the air, which creates a huge spray of slowing falling bomblets. When they touch the ground, well, it sort of sounds like BOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOM!!! Basically you hear this steady roar as the explosives go off. This would be staggering in a cutscene, you could have happy resistance troopers hanging around in La Trinite after they defeated the American attack. They hear the howl of an F-18 at full afterburner as it zooms over the town, dropping a single bomb. The bomb bursts, and the last thing you hear before the explosions is you yelling to your men: GET YOUR HEADS DOWN!

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 02 Oct 2003, 20:27:39

Well, I don't think a real cluster bomb would take out a whole small village. My bombers will drop 24 lgbs on La Trinite (from three A10s) using the CarpetBombing script available here. The one problem is that I don't know the name of the laser bombs. It isn't included in the Unoff. Com Ref.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 02 Oct 2003, 21:26:08

Well, I looked up the CBU-87 on http://www.fas.org and it said that it had a blast footprint of about 200 by 400 meters, and it releases about 200 bomblets. Certainly enough to turn La Trinite into a smoking hole in the ground.

If you insist on using the LGBs, their name is "laserguidedbomb" when camcreating them.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 02 Oct 2003, 21:28:52

200 bomblets? Ouch!  :o

But I presume that blast footprint (whatever that means) is doesn't take into account the fact that the buildings would shield each other from the blasts?

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 02 Oct 2003, 21:33:23

The F/A-18 pack that I so shamelessly advertise also contains many other weapon types hooked up to the F-18s. Here's the types I remember (And i probably got the names wrong :P ):
CBU-87 - Destruction guaranteed.
B-61 - Free Fall Weapon with a .3 kt nuclear warhead.
GBU16 - Laser guided bomb.
MK83 - Unguided conventional bomb.
AMRAAM - Nasty anti-air missiles.
AGM-88 - Sort of like Mavericks, except that 10 are carried.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 02 Oct 2003, 21:35:26

Buildings will not really shield each other, because the bomblets coming rain straight down on top of anything in the blast footprint. By the way, the term "blast footprint" simply means that the bomblets are almost certain to kill anyone inside it.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 02 Oct 2003, 22:04:06

Can we stop talking about bombs and get back to revolutions? ;)

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 02 Oct 2003, 22:06:39

This is related to revolutions, these are the "delicate" measures the U.S. uses to "neutralize" terrorists :P .

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 02 Oct 2003, 22:08:19

This is also related to the campaign. Will you be using the low-res Malden or the high-res Maldova (It still isn't as much of a processor hog as Nogova.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 02 Oct 2003, 22:12:43

Yeh, but we're drifting off topic and talking about how powerful a GBU-87 is. I ain't going to use it anyway... :P

How can I make it so that all the buildings in La Trinite are destroyed in subsequent missions? Aside from repeating the camcreating of lgbs at the start of each mission which would cause some problems.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 02 Oct 2003, 22:26:29

Make a little script that goes:

(object 167345) setdammage 1
(object 154632) setdammage 1
....
exit

I made up the object IDs, you can view them by clicking "View IDs".

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 02 Oct 2003, 22:32:06

Here's a different way, it requires an array of everything you want destroyed. I haven't checked if this works, but it's a bit more sophisticated:

#start
_i = 0
_objarray = [object #, object #, object #, etc...]

#Main
?(_i == 6): goto "exit"
_desobj = _objarray select _i
_desobj setdammage 1
_i = _i + 1
goto "main"

#exit
exit

The 6 in the ?(_i == 6)... line is changed to the number of objects in the array.

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: m21man on 05 Dec 2003, 19:13:31

Has this campaign been abandoned :'( ?

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 07 Dec 2003, 12:59:35

For three months it had been, yeah, because I uninstalled Flashpoint (due to space restrictions on old pc). Luckily I now have one huge feck-off PC with a 120gb hard drive so I can finally play Flashpoint again. And I've restarted work on it, but there's still a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long way to go. It might be finished in a year or so  ::).

Title: Re:'Revolution' Campaign Idea
Post by: Drozdov on 07 Dec 2003, 13:56:14

Okay, let's get the ball rolling again. The story I believe has largely been worked out but there's still one big thing that has to be worked on - the action. I need some more suggestions for some resistance style missions, involving killing Americans and nicking stuff. I've thought of one idea... something inspired by IRA and Iraqi resistance tactics - creating a disturbance and then ambushing the helicopter that comes to investigate. It would be a good way of making the war too costly for the US. You don't want to lose many million-dollar helicopters...

Anyway, I'll give you list of the missions I've decided to include...

1.) Intro - introduces the story and situation and characters. 'Nuff said.

2.) Disputations - the bit with the dispute in the factory, if you remember that.

3.) This is not a certainty - a mission in which you and your two friends have to escape from the factory as the Americans attack it. Gives another reason for you disliking the Americans.

4.) Assassination - A mission in which you assasinate the president Benes.

5.) Perhaps a cutscene explaining events? Or a mission in which you are forced into hiding by the Americans who're looking for you?

6.) Beginning of the Resistance movement - you decide to go to your old friends in the militia to convince them to help you, which they do. Now you have an army of about 15 people. Then you have to go into hiding.

7-9.) Some kind of missions involving your small band roving around shooting people. Obviously your ammo and men won't last long, leading to a near breakdown of the Resistance movement. The decision is taken to expand your group and go recruiting, and also steal equipment from the Americans.

10.) The mission with you going into La Trinite to help the civilian rebels. The bombing of the town obviously angers the people and leads to a lot more of them joining you. However you don't have enough weapons to go around, until....

11.) The Soviets save the day. A Spetz Natz agent comes into your camp in the night and tells you that the nearest Soviet army place has decided on its own to send you supplies, which will arrive by plane the next day. He then leaves.

12.) You must collect the supplies at the airport, and drive them off back home without coming into contact with the Americans. The group now has enough equipment to stand a fighting chance.

13-17.) Various missions, including the helicopter ambush. The other ones I don't know about... Any suggestions?

18.) Your squad finds out that a major convoy of troops is heading north, dangerously near to the main camp. You must ambush and destroy these troops, using two towers that I placed on the map on either side of the road. Using some of the Russian heavy weapons (satchel charges and KORDs) your troop attacks the convoy and kills a hell of a lot of Americans. An important battle and a large defeat for the Americans.

What the missions will be from here I don't know. There will only be a maximum of 4 after this. Anyway, give me yer comments on that, if'n yer please.