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Missions Depot => Mission Discussion => OFP - Reviewed Missions => Topic started by: Trapper on 31 Aug 2005, 02:49:20

Title: (Review Completed) [SP] Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 31 Aug 2005, 02:49:20
Final version released, beta testing is over.

(http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/4950/zosflashnews8pm.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Betatesting is over - head to the Mission Depot for V1.0
http://www.ofpec.com/missions_depot/index.php?action=details&id=38 (http://www.ofpec.com/missions_depot/index.php?action=details&id=38)

Quote
=============================================
1. M i s s i o n  O v e r v i e w
=============================================

This is a special single player mission, both in zombie and normal mission terms!

In the words of a beta tester:
"Otherwise, where's the fun? I might as well go and buy an ant colony and watch that simulate."

The fun is located in using the original OFP squad control interface to it's max and finding strategies to rescue as many survivors as possible in the random simulation.

The mission is a symbiosis of:
- The Incredible Zombie Machine (http://www.sothisisacomic.com/Zombie/zomb3.html)
- the outbreak "rules" pictured in George A. Romero's Night of the Living Dead
- Scott Tunstall's Zombie AI
- The default OFP squad control system


!!! It's essential that you really utilize the tutorial you can find in the briefing

!!! Also you should be(come) an advanced AI squad leader


Story:
As the dead start to walk the earth, rescue centers are build to save the living.
Your national guard unit is also mobilized, but badly equiped, as help is needed everywhere. You are a platoon leader, and were deployed at Sarugao by ship with your platoon. That was in the early evening. The last hours were used to improvise a rescue center of the old military habour. - All military installations on the island are long abandoned.
Now, after the rescue center is build, you are ready to start the evacuation of the island. You are in command, and choose to accompany your 1st squad, which is supposed to search the settlements for civilians. 2nd squad organizes the transport when survivors are found, 3rd squad and HQ are maintaining the rescue center.

Technical:
- You shouldn't play this mission with an old PC.
- Disable highquality replacement mods (ECP ect.) to gain more resources if necessary.
- Evacuated civilians are deleted, but resurrected civilians/zombies start walking around. So successfull evacs will help your PC, too.
The player is Platoon Leader and organizes the evacuations, but has only direct control of the 1st squad he accompanys.

Mission is singleplayer.

It plays on the island Sarugao.

I was created with OFP 1.96

Mission zip size is 3.29MB.

The ai evac convoys are a weakspot of the mission, thats why I've included Vektorbosons Debug Spectator, so you can always have a look at them for easier bugreports. Also a hint will show up to inform you if one of the convoys doesn't really move for 15 minutes.

Difficulty should be medium up to very hard, it depends mainly on how many civilians you want to rescue. :) Mission is always won when there are no more civilians left to evacuate.
The debriefing scoring is completely customized and represents rescued civilians-squad casualties. The (almost impossible) highscore is 17500 + 1000 bonus points.


Needed Addons (37MB):
Modfolder recommended!

UnifiedZombies_beta3 by Scott Tunstall (3,51MB)
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/farmland/uploads/unifiedzombies_b3.rar
Civil pack V1.30 by MiG (includes 2 optional rifles, that also have to be installed! ) (5,00MB)

http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/farmland/uploads/FML_civilians30.rar
NBC Units V1.45 by MiG (1,57MB)
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/farmland/uploads/fml_nbcunits45.rar
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/farmland/addons.html

HMMWV Pack v1.1 by COMBAT! (18,2MB)
http://www.combataddons.com/dload.php?action=file&file_id=5
CBT Misc 1.1 by COMBAT! (4,98MB)
http://www.combataddons.com/dload.php?action=file&file_id=9

Sarugao Island by Schusch (Original Version) (2,76MB)
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=1639

West Medic Tent by Assassinator (<1,00MB)
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=2579

Kegety's Editor Addon V1.11 (editorupdate102.pbo) - or compatible addon
http://www.ofpec.com/editors/browse.php?browsewhat=3&category=3_5

A Replacement File For zombieScripts.pbo by myself
Included in the mission zip. Use it instead of the zombieScripts.pbo of the Unified Zombie Mod.

zos.pbo a small fx addon MiG and I created for the mission.
Included in the mission zip.

Final version released, beta testing is over.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Mikero on 03 Sep 2005, 02:14:21
OFP1.96, bench 5685, vetmode, no superai

No FX, ECP or other 'enhancements'

Package:

Readme:

One of the best presented I've read. Almost a joy to just get stuck in and follow the directions.

Piccie: Partial

As part of the ability to promote a mission, we need a pic. It can be as simple as the overview picture. The relevant included addon had one.

Included Addons

All contained in logical zips of their own and properly described in the readme.

No errors or inconsistencies found.

---
Overview:

I am not sure of the significance of 'simulation' but it was another interesting tweak to centre titleing.

Picture is fine, if a little bland. Everything spaced and presented well. Easily readable. Good author advertising and an error perhaps calling it simply beta? in place of a version value.

Intro:

Excellent. A little mumbly and hard to get into at the very beginning, but otherwise fine. Nice microphone fumble that sounded more like the news presenter doing it rather than the author<> :D

Briefing:

Phew. VERY high quality. As the ReadMe says, it's a mini manual. For those of us not familiar with Zombie missions I would have pronounced how to permanently kill them a little more.

No typos discovered but a peculiar reference to 012345 June. If this is a dating system, it's a mistake. If it's a co-ordinate system, it's waffle.

Notes Ditto: High quality.

No typos or grammatica found

Very good use of 'me' for player to figure out who the hell she is.

Gear / Selection none. and clearly part of mission design. What was supplied however is far above 'yer average' and clearly had some thought put into it.

Group:

Hooray. We are not all, experts, nor, totally profoundly stupid. Another clear indication of mission design but I'm fearful that the troops AI levels will be poor and frustrating as a result.

Map:

Clear, distinct, no noisy nonsense.

Mission.

Instantly confused 2 hmmv looking things and 10x squad. But they look different with the mgun attached so I attempt a load up and sure enough, all of us fit in. (more a criticism of me, than the author).

Did a quick scout round the base camp to get some 'feel' for where support was.

Drove off to first major town fully lit. Took some care on roads as I assumed (wrongly) I'd be using my vehicle as a weapon against zombies.

Noticed 2 civils with rifles (probably kozlices). Inspected the radio options to see what might be, and spotted a convoy call. Waited and waited, and positioned all my people at lethal crossfires in the town to take down anything that came.

Nothing came, and it appeared the convoy wasn't either. Checked map and noticed for first time a LOT of ? marks on towns much deeper into the island.

Figured out I should've gone deeper into unmarked territory to begin with.

But, by this time, the mission wasn't working for me. Personal thing. I couldn't 'get into it'. Had the feeling, wrong I assume, that I'd be running all over the map trying to get things to happen that wouldn't. Too confused with first town not understanding it's possibly a 'safe' holding area perhaps, and a dull uneventful drive to it (from the base) made me surer I'd be in for a chase the last loon style mission.

Considering it's (one of the) most professional packages I've seen in a while, I figure most of the fault is mine, and I'll get back to this mission after i've cleared the decks of an awful lot of incoming.

Howwever, can't shake the feeling that there's author mistakes here, that he knows how this mission plays and has forgotten to tell the player.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 03 Sep 2005, 12:22:01
Thank you for testing the mission Mikero.
It's good to know about the problems the player can run into at the first time.

A picture will be included in the next zip.

"Simulation" is very significant. It describes the difference to the common OFP zombie missions I know.
You've already noticed this difference as you were surprised about the "dull uneventful drive" to the "safe" village.
In this mission the zombies are really spreading about the island, and this is the "Simulation". It's the heart of the mission.
As it begins randomly, any of the towns can be "safe" or attacked in the first minutes.
It's not that kind of horrormission, where they just spawn now and then close to you.

Version Value. "1st" is meant to be one, but maybe it's a little bit too individualistic :)
The first final will begin with the better known 1.0

Credits for the intro sound belong to George A. Romero's movie and my recording skills. ;)

The dating system. I've addapted it from the Realistic Mission Briefings tutorial by crow, here at the editors depot.
012345 June  -->  June 1st, 2345hours
So is it wrong or not? :)


The mission itself:

"Howwever, can't shake the feeling that there's author mistakes here, that he knows how this mission plays and has forgotten to tell the player."
The author would like to say "ReadThe********Manual" 8) - but maybe the manual is too complicated?
All things you've mentioned, are already covered in the manual. So as it looks like you've had to rush through it at first, I would like to know about your second experience, before we go into details.

About the questionmarks you're right. I've no idea how to refer to 17 mapmakers (all island towns) in the realistic briefing.
I wrote "all civilian survivors" in briefing, "question marks" in manual and "Evacuation of Sarugao island" in overview. But it seems to be too subtil.

"made me surer I'd be in for a chase the last loon style mission" - No. :)
The zombie spread is working against you from the first minute. Only thing you have to chase are the questionmarks. Either there are civilians to evacuate, or the zombies have already overun the village. - Mission ends if none of the 175 survivors is left to evacuate.
You should also know, that this big mission(/simulation) can have up to 2 or 3 hours playtime. Well, you've to evacuate the whole island, what do you expect? ;)

EDIT:
The radiocommand you've tried to use for evac isn't documented in the manual. It's only part of the beta test, have a look at the first post, please.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 06 Sep 2005, 01:50:23
It says "no promises" in the guidlines for releasing beta missions, but as I've got the feeling I'm missing tests thru wrong expectations, I've extended the first post to clear things up.

EDIT:
PS: Always read the mini manual in the briefing notes carefully, this mission could also be called a small mod.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: bardosy on 09 Sep 2005, 15:49:32
All right!
I downloaded it! I'll try... But if I can't sleep for a while...  ;D ;D
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 09 Sep 2005, 17:31:40
Thx Bardosy, I don't think this mission will be that scarry. - And I'm sure you know how to quit OFP if neccessary. :)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Cheetah on 10 Sep 2005, 13:36:10
The download links for the first three addons aren't working.
This is the link where all the false downloads are:
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/farmland/addons.html (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/farmland/addons.html)

Please give me other download location that work, I don't have the time to look much for them myself.

A question: do you need all these* addons for the NBC units? Please mention them in the downloads if you need them all.

*HYK Units [2.05 MB] + Hyakushiki Modern US Troops v1.53 [19.5 MB] + Laser's US Weapons Pack v1.25 [15.1 MB] + JAM2 Corrected Version [7.44 MB]) - (source ofp.info)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 10 Sep 2005, 14:06:39
Added working Farmland downloadlinks to the first post.

The Farmland NBC units require none of the additional addons you have listed. All needed addons are listed in the first post.


Also I added a pic to persuade all of you hesitating betatesters.  :P
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Cheetah on 10 Sep 2005, 18:26:00
Pretty strange that I need all the addons then :). Well all the addons except for the NUT_UUSMC were on my PC. Downloading it right now, maybe because you do already have them on your PC? And on the site is mentioned that the NBC units require some other addons (for example on ofp.info).
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 10 Sep 2005, 19:12:57
Now I've checked the mission.sqm, and not one of your addons is listed.
Please make sure you use a mod folder for my mission. - Maybe some of the used addons tend to inconsistencies.

Are you sure that we're talking about the same NBC Addon (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=8814)? I don't see any required addons there. :)

EDIT: Oh and please hang on until you're able to test this cursed mission  ;D
EDIT2: You are trying to play the mission with these (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=7964), right? It's just the wrong addon, nothing more.  :D
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Mikero on 11 Sep 2005, 06:37:06
Gee, I'm having a really bad week, sniping and criticising at many of the mission in here. I gave this one anoter run and finding it really hard to get into. Here's some thought's in no order stuff.

There's no clear idea of what-to-do. It's all there, it's all detailed, but it's not in your face clear (and this mission isn't something subtle, something hidden).

I would put a link to 'spoilers' or 'how to win' in it I would say

locate civilians in each town visited.

kill off and bury any zombies that might be present.

move to centre of civs and use action memnu and map to get assistance

Use care in telling convoy where to arrive. Hint. Cause civs to move a little out of town.

Protect civs until convoy arrives, then move on.

read blah for further details.
----

If this is the basics of the mission, if this is all it is, then it's dull and uneventful.

Because Saraguo is a new island, most of us are unfamiliar with it, This leads to an immediate problem of not being able to 'measure' the time taken for those convoys to arrive. (we have reasonable ideas of Larche to Houdan eg) and we also have strategic knowledge of how 'difficult' it might be for a convoy to make the journey. Here, we have nothing. We don't know, can't judge, which compass direction we should concentrate on and in which order.

The dark compounds this problem for us because all our peripheral navigation has gone.

If anything, I would add animated map markers for ALL vehicles. Something to give the player something to look at, some feeling that something's happening (the patch-view does not do that for us incidentally)

Another thing I'd consider doing is scrapping these boring long waits all together and use a much smaller team in a VERY large truck. We drive the truck, WE rescue civilians and the PLAYER gets to control when all the action takes place. In this way, I'd make the collecting of civils a much fiercer fist fight.

I don't know of course if something more develops, something back at base later, but as it stands now (for me) it's just a tedious move-to-next-town thing with no end in sight, separated by tediously long and almost always uneventful waiting around.

There's also the issue of ai driving. Bad in itslelf, but really really painful when one gets stuck on the 19th village and you have to start the thing all over again. Give the player control of these vehicles and the issue goes away.

Loved that interesting patch-view btw, never met up with it before.

Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Cheetah on 11 Sep 2005, 09:48:09
ZOS / Zombie Outbreak Simulation

Overview:
The overview is good and I can't add anything to Mikero.

Intro:
I liked the intro, never seen an intro like this one before in an ofp mission. But I suggest that you start this intro a bit different. Let the news reader walk towards the camera while you follow him with your camera. Than let him begin to speak.
After that you could add some scenes of reporters in a town. Just for some news footage, that way it looks a bit more like a real new program.

Briefing:
I liked the briefing, but I didn't really like it that I had to click through all the pages for the information. I'd like to have a bit more information on a page. Maybe you could combine the hints in the hint section a bit? That way we don't have to look through all the sections to get all the hints.

There was no weapon choice, well some handguns which you might as well just add to the team without the player having to do it maybe? And you don't need any more weapons then we already have, the M16 is good enough.

Why does the marker "civilians" go to San Alto on the map? Is this the most special place, or the first place where you think the player will go? Or is it just that you wanted a marker civilians?

The group, well place make them all a bit better or at least one of them so that you have an experienced co-driver in your team. Or make the skills at least a bit different from each other, no-one in a team is equally skilled.

Mission:
The flashlight didn't have any effect, or didn't work? It looked quite strange, but I don't know this is because of the mod. What I also noticed was that the mission looked really strange. Just like a filter had been used to make the map a bit different or is it just me. It was no fog that was bugging me. It was quite irritating, but well I got used to it. Though I'd prefer to have fog in this mission.

My ten men strong team was divided into team white and team red. I took command over team white and team red was led by #6. I ordered #6 to go north while I went to San Alto.
I called in the evacuation team and they were on their way to the town.
No time should be wasted and I went West right away. I got to the second town and let them evacuate. The strange thing was that the civilians were running away in the direction of San Alto? Pretty strange.

My Red team wasn't at the objective, they were driving through the hills. Well, I should have thought of the safe mode... oops.

I decided that going north from this town to the west of San Alto would be best. I drove over the mountains, because I didn't like driving all the way around they. After some 4x speed driving I came to the town with two groups in them.
During my drive to the town north, my #6 was finally in the town I ordered him to go with team Red. I tried using his action menu, but I couldn't spot the evacuation action right away. The town where he was had a yellow marker that a pick-up or something would be done.
Do the AI do this by themselves? Using the action menu, the evacuation of the civilians?
Well anyway, I thought this was just a problem and ordered them to move about fifty metres north. This time I could use his action menu and press the "evacuation" thing via the radio. Help was on the way towards my other team.

Every time I ordered the evacuation of the civilians, I left one or two teammates there to guard them. This left team White with me and #2 and team Red with #6,7,9,10. Red was ordered to move to the northwest towards another town.

This was when I saw the town I was looking for, I had some problems with finding the civilians, but I discovered there was a group on a hill, the hospital. Because I'd been searching for them a few minutes my other team was at the their destination before I was at the hospital. A yellow marker appeared on the map, saying that there was an evacuation or something.
I tried using #6's action menu, but I couldn't use the evacuate button. Damn, well I was at the hospital and tried using mine, the problem was that there would be no evacuation group coming. The two groups were busy at this time. Well San Alto was done and the recover squad had returned. This left one squad (confirmed move) moving towards the first position of #6, (north of the beginning position).

I don't know where the second group went to but okay. I tried using the radio to see where the convoy's were and why they hadn't picked up the civilians. It was a bit hard to use if you don't know how it works, but eventually I got it to work. I saw that there was a convoy stopped, maybe they were attack or something, I don't know.

This is where I did get very frustrated. The hospital couldn't be safed, I didn't know where the convoys were and what they were up to. My Red team were being attacked by zombies in the town they were in. I ordered #9,10 to get out and help #7 (Hummer gunner) to shoot the zombies. #9 was killed rather easy and my other two guys were running low on ammo after a while. Well, I had problems with all the bodies, so I just let them retreat from there. They wouldn't really do this the way I wanted, #10 had to be left behind because he wouldn't board the hummer in time. #6 drove back to the base, but I didn't like paying attention to him anymore.

I tried waiting on 4x speed for the convoys to get ready to pick up these civilians. This didn't work. I pressed the quit mission at this moment.

Debriefing:
Didn't see it.

Outro:
Didn't see it.

Mission Thoughts:

Not really happy with the mission in it's current state, although most things seem to work fine. In the following part I'll give you some comments about the mission that I think, will make it a bit better. A bit more playable, because right now it's very hard to get into and it takes very long. There's so many towns on the map and it gets a bit boring after a while of playing. There's not much action, the zombies aren't that lethal.

You should really do something about the action in this mission. Right now, the zombies aren't a real threat and the problem is that your own team is your enemy. They don't listen as they should and splitting up the team looks like the best option. Although this doesn't really work as to how it should IMO. Please, add more action into the mission. We want more zombies, at least I want. Make sure that the zombies have some kind of roadblocks or when the player is saving civilians have the zombies attack in large numbers.
Add a radio message like "town X is under attack by zombies", something that let's the player know what's going on.

Make it so that if the AI is in range of a civilian team, he'll go there and order the evacuation. This has to be done with the authorisation of the player. He gets some kind of a dialog maybe, that let's it proceed. Also some thing so that the AI communicates with the player if he orders an evacuation.

Change the evacuation thing a bit, as Mikero said you could give the player trucks and do the evacuation on his own.
Or make it so that the player keeps up to date on all things involved for the evacution. You could make a big dialog, which gives you information about how many civilians you have left to save. About where the evacuation team is, or at least how many are available. And possible even the ETA of when there's another available or what the time is that they arrive at position X where they were ordered to evacuation some civilians.

If the convoy is attack you should give a message to the player that convoy A is under attack. And as Mikero said, moving markers should be added if you keep this "the convoy isn't part of your squad". That way you know a bit more what's going on. In real life you've a radio at your disposal to keep track of all the other units involved. Make the player know a bit more about how the mission is going.

Give the player a description of how he can complete the mission. And did you complete the mission on your own, or has this never been done by anyone yet? If you did it would you want to let me know how you did it, you could add at least a walkthrough in the readme or something. That way I know that this map can be completed. Because in my eyes, it's a bit too big at the moment with the means you've at your disposal.

The transportation.. on this kind of a map, that we don't even know of. You might give the player some additional transport. How about a chopper (blackhawk / little bird) or some trucks so that the player can use these to rescue the civilians.

Conclusion:
This mission should be nice to play if it would have more action. And less driving-around-without-knowing-what-to-do-further. Do you get what I mean? It's just that it's a bit, well empty in some case. The island is quite large towns are spread out and we don't know what to do. Only two rescue convoys are available which isn't much. And we don't even know what's the status of the convoys.

Please, give this mission a bit more work and make it a bit easier for the player. I'll try it again if you'd like to have me test a few things that you ask me to do.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 11 Sep 2005, 13:54:28
Thank you for the first two tests on this mission Mikero and Cheetah.
But guys I was really surprised how "bad" the mission played out for you.  :o
I'll would have a hard time to reply to everything you wrote, but be sure I'll consider your whole posts as fars as possible while working on the next version.

The biggest problem so far, that I can read all between your lines, is "getting into it".
The alpha testers at the BI forums had less problems with that, as most of them seem to be zombie fans.

My current point on getting into it is:
Quote
I'm serious when calling it a simulation. It's like all those flightsims, most people can't spot the fun anymore, if they play it on "ultra realistic" settings.
My mission seems to have a big problem to suck people into it, that are not much interested into zombies, and/or don't have at least a little bit of real military background knowledge. I'll try to descripe what I'm talking about in short:

The zombie fan (or even a zombie enemy) might say:
I've seen/played all things zombie before. Everytime it's only about small rooms, low on ammo, escape. I would like to know how this would be in a more realistic open terrain enviroment. Damn, an army should get such a problem under control in no time, so I don't have to fear this zombie fiction.

The military background thing:
(In short: Make do with what you've got.)
Your busy superior: ...Lieutenant your mission in this worldwide state of emergency is to evacuate all the civilian survivors on Sarugao island. Situation on this small, unimportant island is unknown, we have no contact. Here's an island map, your platoon will be deployed by ship. Set up the rescue center at the old military habour and get on it. Good Luck!...

So many of the things you don't like are intentionally
  • Most of the time a soldier will have to work with maps, and not by knowing the area of operations. (unknown island)
  • Many operations are dull and uneventfull, and most of the soldiers prefer this I think.
  • Communications on the island are broken down, thats why the evacuation has to be supervised like this.
  • This mission is a big scale evacuation simulation not a big scale zombie hunt. (so yes, the overall mission is a bit "empty" and doesn't try to entertain hollywood like (simulation again))
  • No one really cares if a soldier survives a mission or not, but if he survives and wasn't successful someone will care...

(I want to say: This mission is about how many civilians you can evacuate, not how cool you fight off zombies that might attack your squad. The survivors are the ones in real danger, not your soldiers.)[/list]

It looks like the mission plays like I wan't it, but I'll have a problem to find interested players for it. - Any thoughts on how to interested the normal ofp player for it, without him being frustrated by the dullness/difficulty he'll find in this mission?



Some smaller things:

Nice ideas for the intro, but a moving newsman is to difficult in ofp editing. Also this sound sample out of a movie doesn't give me much freedom, and correspondents sounds wouldn't have the same "reality" quality. (A small problem also is the movie plays around the 50s/60s, so the newsman acts different than in a today newsreport. - It's a small tribute to the movie like it is now.)

Yes there is a colorfilter over the whole mission, you are wearing a gasmask with colored glasses, didn't you notice? ;)

The flashlight is working/looking like a small vehicle spotlight. I think there's a problem with your OFP setup and the addon. I hope you can fix that. - Oh wait, are you using custom animations? I've noticed Sanctuary's rifle animations effect the flashlights in a bad way. :(

Splitting your (realistic) 9 men squad up from the beginning  is exactly the right way, to rescue as many civilians as possible.
Mikero if I just add a small truck and let the player do everything himself, the whole mission would take even longer, and you would rescue less civilians.
Cheetah I can't add a helicopter, the mission would get too easy.

You don't have to redo the whole mission if the convoy gets stucked!? Just load the automated savegame up.

Using time acceleration in such a big mission isn't a good idea, I haven't noticed big bugs caused by it, so I won't deactivate it, but it's always possible.

...have to quit for now this is getting too long... :)


Things already in work for next version:

- a new list document in the briefing, with links to all of the question marks on the map. It replaces the San Alto map link
- back/exit/forward links in the tutorial documents

- moving mapmarkers for the convoy


Cheetah (or anyone else who likes to do this special, short test for me):
Please try if it's really that difficult to do evacuations remotely. Because while reading your test I've got the feeling you didn't do it "by the book".
1. Just wait at the rescue center.
2. Open the briefing tutorial, chapter "Evacuations".
3. Order some AIs into a HMMWV and let them drive to San Alto.
4. Read the tutorial carefully step by step, and evacute the San Alto survivors with the ais, like the tutorial tells you.

I would like to know, what you think about the remote evacuations after that, because I've already included workarounds for the occuring problems.

PS:
Yes I finished my mission 2 times now. Playtime is around 2 hours, in earlier versions it were 3 hours.
Guys you can just quit and continue a mission at any point whenever you like in OFP. But I think you already know that. ;)
The mission will always end, if all civilians are either a zombie or evacuated, so just check every question mark on the map and do there what you're orderd to do. ;)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 11 Sep 2005, 16:14:04
@Mikero

Please have a look at this new summary. It replaces the old "Hints" page of the briefing tutorial:

Quote
Hints

This is a small manual for the new things you will discover in this mission.

Everything in short:
- Search all locations for survivors
- Contact their leaders to start an evac (use the actionmenu and the map, prefer open spaces as evac sites!)
- The rescue center is always there for refitting
- Mission ends when all 175 survivors are rescued or dead
- Playtime is around two hours

Enjoy your strategic freedom!
- Hurry the evacs or play it safe
- Sacrifice groups of survivors if you like to
- Disperse your squad over the whole island or not
- Try to eliminate the zombies or not

But in the end
- Measure your success by the number of rescued survivors! (max score 17500)

What do you think, is that the "spoiler" you were missing all the time?

EDIT:
One more thing. You repeated, that it isn't clear how to kill the zombies. But I'm using this line
Quote
Hide their bodies to prevent resurrection.
in the tutorial.
Is something wrong with it? Maybe it isn't it called like this in english OFP, if the BlackOps hide dead bodies?
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Mikero on 12 Sep 2005, 05:40:30
The newer hints look fine to me Trapper. There was confusion for Cheetah, as with me, that you have to get close in to the center of the civils to get the 'action'. All explained in briefing, but it's buried deep.

Ditto moving civils is a MUST and again, confusion for Cheetah, and myself, why they suddenly took off. Took a few tries to realise my map clicking was the cause of it.

Keeping ai driving OUT of towns is essential. You need to emphasise it. Unfortunately players can get themselves in a pickle with retries and cheatsaves. In my case  I had to mostly start over.

>Burying bodies

no problem at all at any time. It was the one comment in the briefing i really really needed to see. I saw it, and it needs emphasising. Players need to have some feeling of defeating the enemy apart from winning.

To speed things up, to give player more 'ideas' more 'strategy' to win. I would let him control the rescue convoys to the extent that he can order them to wait at various towns (eg). Ie let the player tell them, ultimately, to return to base, but let him also prepare a strategy. Moving everyone concerned around the map like a chess game.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Mikero on 12 Sep 2005, 07:01:29
@Trapper

I reckon I've found the 'problem' with this mission. It's your simulation, not ours. We don't have anything to do but play along according to your rules, and the outcome isn't a win. We could let all the civilians die for all it matters. It's a definition of end game. That's all, and that's fine.

You're not playing fair with us. We too, need to simulate things just like you. Right now, we're bit players, spectators, to a rather interesting simulation that you made, not u and we dont have any big part to play.

For instance, we need to simulate our own events. We need surprises like Town A has a green bottle of sulphur, and if we drive to town B we can mix it with product X and 'simulate' a protection corridor, an antidote to the zombies, a safety zone. We need to have strategies of our own instead of the dreary wait for the civils to load. We need to open a box and discover it's increased zombie levels, blow up a house to decrease them.

We need to move convoys, to make our own game simulation on top of yours.

Otherwise, where's the fun? I might as well go and buy an ant colony and watch that simulate.

We have to have reasons to hate the zombies, we have to have reasons to desperately want to save civilians. Naked Nuns for instance. Give us something to DO to make us part of the outcome. Right now it's totally rigid in structure with nothing for us to CREATE on our own.

Why supply us weapons at all? Let us hunt for them. A reward for even bothering to travel to town Z.

Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Cheetah on 12 Sep 2005, 10:13:13
A major problem in this mission is that the zombies don't scare me. Really, I _LIKE_ seeing zombies, I have fun doing that. It's just that we have to be overrun with zombies, get low on ammo and be desperate. Try to find ammo in village Y or heavier weapons in town Z. Health packs are hidden at a hospital, thing like these, like Mikero says make the mission better.

It's boring to wait for the convoy to pick the civilians up. Not something I like to do, it's my time and I want something to do. I'd choose a mission with action all the time, like attacking a town over this one. Although this one might be bigger, why? It's missing some major, important things. Just think about it, I didn't have anything to do while waiting for the convoys. I left some teammates at town and went further, deeper into the island myself. But there was a time, quite fast that I had to stop my journey. I had to wait, I was travelling and evacuating too fast for the convoy to keep up.

It's something you should change, make hordes of zombies get to the player if he's somewhere. Make the base under attack by zombies or something. Let the player have some action in this mission, it's not really fun in doing all the travelling only to kill two zombies and save the civilians after 15 minutes of waiting. It's just not how this mission really should be.

This mission desperately needs way more action than it has right now.
About what you pointed out, the AI on a big distance. I could do it in the beginning towns, but later on it's a pain to do. The AI is very hard to control in this kind of mission. You have to pay much attention and the frustration can get to great heights if there's something going wrong.

I could enjoy the mission, but I'm an action seeker. That's what I'd prefer to do. And the chopper might be too easy, but the mission is already easy right now. Please, please make it have a bit more action.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: MachoMan on 12 Sep 2005, 11:06:35
I actually liked it, but that's probably my fascination with tech demos.

I do have some suggestions:
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Cheetah on 12 Sep 2005, 17:25:08
Well, I think this mission is just missing some action.
I did what you asked me to do Trapper and it worked. It's just that later on in this mission, all things tend to become a bit too boring. And some things, like the convoys could get truck later on.

Did some little testing on the zombies and they're really NOT effective. I've tried letting my men fight against them, without using firearms. It took four minutes before two zombies killed one of my men. It took longer to get the second, this is where I stopped my little test. It's just that the zombies need to be in 8+ squads to become a bit dangerous. And in that case they're not really a problem for our firearms. Please look into this, make the zombies a lot harder to deal with, or make us have an ammo shortage so that we fair an encounter with zombies.

I liked what MachoMan suggested, the bases overrun by zombies. The player could try to save them, or get weapons from them that are being guarded by zombies.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 12 Sep 2005, 21:39:31
Ok, stop! :)
I relly appreciate all those feedback finaly, but it's going in the wrong direction.
I don't want to affront you all later, with rejecting many of your suggestions.

In his last post Mikero fully discovered the hidden truth about this mission. - It is an ant colony! And as it is my ant colony, I've set the rules.

It isn't a mainstream OFP(-zombie) mission, and I'll never make it one.
This mission is just a symbiosis of:
- a little java game (link in first post)
- the outbreak "rules" pictured in Night of the living Dead
- Scott Tunstall's Zombie AI
- The default OFP squad control system

The missing fun/interaction, that Mikero is looking for, is located in the direct control of 1st squad and the relative control of 2nd squad (convoys).
It's boring/easy like a marathon run: Everyone can do the distance, fast or slow, maybe with long rests or even by car. Fascinated about it will only be the one who wants to get better and better on this.

Many of the things that make this mission tense, have to happen in the head of the player.
I know now, that I'm asking for too much, if the player isn't fascinated by the Romero zombies and doesn't have the military background to recognize and use the potential of the OFP squad control.
...and now I'm left with a very small target group.  :-\

That's also a problem for this betatest, as I'm asking you to test something, that isn't directly a "normal" OFP mission, like you all were expecting.
And (no offense!), I believe MachoMan is my first beta tester here, that didn't play the mission with wrong expectations.


Important is, I had to write this statement already at the alpha testing on the BI forum.
It looks like most of the new players have to be introduced to this mission, like it is a small new game. A tutorial about the OFP squad control would also be good. - Damn, maybe even a introduction to the Romero universe.
I think my briefing.html has already reached the limits of OFP and userfriendlyness, so I need something more.

Would you all agree, that the most important thing to do is a detailed documentation, and not chainging this mission to be more mainstream?
I'm thinking about a pdf or html documentation with pictures. What format would be better?
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: MIG on 13 Sep 2005, 00:24:50
I've played this mission twice and i get it finnished. Here is my fast review.


Overview: Good! Nothing to point here.

Intro: Very good work! The sound was taken from the original "Night of the living dead" movie.

Briefing: A very complete guide to understand and play the mission. Nothing more to say.

Mission: It lags a bit at start but it is related with the spawned zombies and civilians. After a while the lag disapears. It is a hard mission and i was able to save only a few civilians (about 32 i guess). It takes a while and the only boring thing is the time that player wastes inside the hummer without no action (of course it is a realistic Zombie Outbreake Simulation and Hummers don't have radio to listen to some music :P) or waiting for an available rescue transportation for civilians. I noticed another small bug but that is related with AI. AI face some problems driving inside the cities and get stucked sometimes. Rescue convoy included. No more to point except say that is hopefully a different type of zombie mission and it is very well done in all aspects.

Outros: didn't find any. I didn't edit the mission file but i think that final cutscene with the credits was inserted in the mission .

Conclusion: Excellent mission! It deserves a sequel  :)





Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Mikero on 13 Sep 2005, 01:21:27
This is great!

Finally, some people giving this mission a decent road test with some strong differences about whether they like it or not. This is what you needed Trapper.

You dont need more online documentation. You need to empasise this is an ant colony mission. Some will love it, and do.

Nice work, everyone.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: bardosy on 13 Sep 2005, 07:29:40
Trapper!!! You made me mad!  ;D
I try your mission and after the first village I said: wow, a new concept and feeling, great! But after the second village I try to calm down. Damn!!! This f*cking evac humvees... Always stucked. Always!!! I reload many times, but the effect is same.  :'(
I used your tool to watch where stucked this AI vehicles, but they even not START!!!! They stand at the base! ???
Have you any idea why?

I have some idea to you (from a beginer):
1., Cheat a little bit and setPos the humvees near the evac point, but delayed of course.
2., The player can designate not only one destination pont, but a rout.
3., You define fix rout points and you recognise (with a trigger) witch region is the destination and choose a rout for there.

Hm?
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: MachoMan on 13 Sep 2005, 09:23:04
Lol, there are multiple convoys! Ever tried pressing next an extra time. ;)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 13 Sep 2005, 15:40:38
@MiG
Thanks for stopping by MiG. :)
The overall initial lag will be reduced in the next version, but I can see no way to get rid of the heavy 1sec freeze. (at least it lasts only a second)
I encourage everyone to listen his favourite apocalypse music while playing this long mission! - I can't expect of anybody to listen for two hours to a background music that I did predetermine. So there is none.
I can't do much for the OFP AI driving. You have to practice on your own which maneuvering is possible for it. It isn't that bad when you got used to it.
The final credit cutrscs actually play in the correct outro segment of the mission. ;)

@Mikero
Yeah, I'm happy now.  ;D
Mikero you always say "ephasise"... give me some examples please, I've run out of ideas for that. Nothing shows effect, only forum discussions with the players. :)
My final conclusion was that a nice looking documentation in the zip will help everyone new to it, to realize what he is about to play. - But you believe that won't help either.

@bardosy
I already thought my mission scared you to death. ;)
Thank you for testing.
You just stumbled about the same problem like almost everyone here at first: Doing the evacuation tutorial (in the notes) step by step for the first evacuation is essential.
In advance: You didn't do a single map click to finish the evac call, thats all.
I think now you can start the real testing. :)

1. I don't like to. It would be very unrealistic and I try to avoid that in my ant colony. Also it gives the bored players some driving around HMMWVs to watch. ;)
2. Very complicated to integrate and to play. It would cause more self-induced ai pathfinding "bugs" by the player.
3. This beginer just found out the magic in my mission. 8) - I do it with many gamelogics and evaluating the map click pos, but it's this system.

@MachoMan
Quote
Lol, there are multiple convoys! Ever tried pressing next an extra time. ;)
??? I don't understand your line at all, sorry. :)
About the "mayhem", there is a bit of it in the north of the island, but for know i kept that simple to keep the cpu load low. - Maybe you have a look at this region.
Graveyards (because of a mortuary) are in the random spawn positions of the first zombies if possible, but there is no real "rising from the graves" in the Romero universe. So I wont use them for constant zombie production.

@Cheetah
Most of your suggestions would turn this ant colony into a more common zombie mission. I can't spawn zombies every now and then, because it would falsify the spread simulation on this island.
The zombies are supposed to be that weak (according to night of the living dead), and a few of them shouldn't be a danger for armed soldiers. Scarry in this universe isn't really one zombie acting like a aggressive retarded, scarry is only the thought of their numbers everywhere.
That you only encountered two zombies at once is caused by not playing the mission to the end. There is a high chance to meet one or two bigger groups when the spread continous.
At least one ammo shortage of one of your fireteams is very likely over the whole mission. (Remeber the soldier you sent back to base for refitting but ignored later thru bugs)

It's really not for the pure action seekers here. It's not Resident Evil like survivial horror. There is a more subtile apocalyptic horror in this ant colony mission:
- Everywhere on earth is happening the same.
- Natural borders keep the zombie situation relatively controlled on an island.
- You don't know, if there will be any HQ left, taking care of you after this mission.
- Try to get a feeling of your character's (commanding officer for the island) responsibility for the evacuation and his platoon.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Cheetah on 13 Sep 2005, 20:23:59
I've tried playing this mission again, because I don't like missions that I can't get to an end :). I have to end them, at least that's what I want to accomplish.

This time it played alot better, I think this is how you should play this mission, I found some errors though, but these might have been caused by the AI (will have been caused by the AI probably).

I ordered my other squad towards the town in the east while I went to the closest town and all the way to the west. We secured some towns, although I had some men remaining at two towns to wait before these could be evacuated. Yes, they were waiting while I ended my mission, more about that later on. All went on without any big problems. Only thing I've experienced was that a town in the west (the second furthest) had a black question mark, but there were no civilians there anymore. I killed some zombies around that area (they were probably the civilians there), but shouldn't the marker disappear?

After this I met with my Red squad at an intersection in the center of the island to move to another town. The first time I hadn't done this and suddenly they didn't respond, well my radio messages were like "6 is down", "7 is down" .. etc. (until #10)

I figured out there would be 'some' resistance there. This is why I routed team Red and #2 + me (#2 is my gunner, #3,4,5 were at two remaining towns). We drove to the northwest and I discovered a large zombie 'company' in the distance. Let my two Humvee's stand next to each other and let the driver of the other hummer (and myself) disembark. Ordered the other three soldiers to get out so that we had all the firepower we could get. The zombies were slaughtered, but I can think of what happened before the retry :). I think about twenty zombies had been killed by us, maybe even more than twenty. Well, just want to say that from this point I begin to like the mission, yes really. I love having those masses of zombies marching towards me and 'executing' them.

After this I moved into the village where the zombies came from, I noticed that there were no civilians there although there was a black question mark. I would prefer it if you'd remove the question mark if there's no civilians there (zombie != civilian).
A few minutes after this I quit the mission, why? A convoy got stuck in a town (X West, don't know what the name X was, only know it had West in the name).

They were inside the town from what I could see (I have a screenshot, but I don't think that you really need to see it, if you'd like to see it, just tell me).
It's just that they wouldn't move anymore, well I can always retry, but that is 30 minutes again. I'll do it sometime again probably, maybe this week I don't know yet.

I have two more pictures of me VS the massive zombie army (well, not all are on the picture, they were too spread out), it's a memory for me that I had a chance to fight against this kind of an army ;).
Anyways this mission gets more interesting in the later part for me, this is when it becomes a bit harder for the player. He has to be faster because the zombies are spreading out a bit more. The only real problem is that you've got to wait before a convoy is ready to move out again. The other 'less real' problem is that the convoys tend to get stuck, it's just that you can't really do much about it.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: MachoMan on 13 Sep 2005, 22:54:13
@MachoMan ??? I don't understand your line at all, sorry. :)
I was refering to bardosy's post. There are two humvee convoys, right?
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 14 Sep 2005, 03:27:33
@Cheetah
You're finaly getting the hang of it. :D

The marker system is described in the evac tutorial:

?
Situation unknown. -
No direct contact with possible survivors, either they are still alive or zombies.

X (green)
Contact with survivors. -
Someone of your squad is closer than 50m to a living civil leader.
The position of the marker always shows the civil leader position in realtime.
If the distance becomes more than 50m, X turns into the question mark again. It marks the last known position and won't move anymore.

A civil group marker is only deleted when they are (99%) save in the evac trucks and on their way to the rescue center.
So in the end, the last unsolved question marks can help to determine the zombie spread movement.
I can't change anything on the markers if there are no civilians anymore, as it would be a big spoiler about the zombie movements. - There's no realistic reason how the player could know about what happenend without seeing it for himself. - His eyes and ears are the 1st squad only and he is his own "PapaBear".
Don't worry, if you scout the area around a question mark and see no survivors, then you can't find this group anywhere else (only as zombies).

What I do to remind myself of cities that I've declared as abandoned, is creating my own map marker in game:
Just double click on the map. Use up and down to select it's type.


The convoy getting stuck is the biggest bug of this mission. Beside improving it whereever I can, the only way to help the player, is doing autosaves everytime he calls convoy DeltaGreen. So he won't have to redo the whole mission later.
If I would autosave more often, the chance is too high to save an already stuck convoy, which would make the savegame useless. (I think Mikero already discovered this problem by using the savegame cheat :) )


As the start of the spread is always random, your next game will be different. Have fun! :)


@MachoMan
Yes you're right. - But without clicking on the map for the first convoy, he can't call the second.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 14 Sep 2005, 03:36:41
This could help, it's from the alpha tests in the BIs forum:
Quote
Choose open areas, like the ones marked in this image for best evac results...
P I C T U R E (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dxdshot11229095615bw.jpg)
(The evaczone selected on the screenshot always worked fine for me at San Alto)
I hope this image will help everybody with ai evacs that get stuck.
The evac script is very detailed, and I'm 99% sure the ai is able to handle evacs in areas like this. Optimal is to have enough space for two HMMWVs turning around when returning to base. Even space for 1 1/2 should be ok. (The second is scripted to hold until the first found its way back)
Also make sure you won't block the evaczone with your men or cars.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: bardosy on 14 Sep 2005, 08:22:23
Quote
In advance: You didn't do a single map click to finish the evac call, thats all.

I don't undestand. The first evac was working fine. They come, they evac and they return to the base (I recived a radio message "we are here and we are ready for the next evac")

In the next (north from the base) I call the evac for a very clear zone. I run back to the main road for no problems. And I use the action menu "Evac" and click to the main road (not in the village) The survivors run there (to the main road) and we defend them from the zombies. And waiting...

When I use your tool, I saw the evac Humvees in the base and the driver standing up in the seet. Not siting, just stand and their heads is outsite from the car. I saw this only in Hidden and Dangerous game (I think this is a very tipical checz bug).

I read the manual for evacing, but I try it again...
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Cheetah on 14 Sep 2005, 11:03:22
Well, I think that next time I'll just let them get evacuated in open territory instead of on the road as I did. Though that I would be easier for the AI that way.

Another thing is that it is important to let everyone know that you can use the action menu of the AI for hiding bodies. AI controlling is really important in this mission.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: bardosy on 14 Sep 2005, 13:37:13
If 20-30 zombies attack in the same time, it's mean the next village is completly changed to zombie?
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 14 Sep 2005, 14:33:35
I'll add this additional AI information to the "Zombies" hint.

Yes it's very likely that a nearby village turnend into zombies. (For these numbers 2 or 3 villages are needed)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: bardosy on 14 Sep 2005, 14:44:40
There is a twin village next to me....  ;D
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 14 Sep 2005, 20:12:25
@bardosy - reply #29
I'm sorry I didn't see this reply earlier.

You are doing everything right. No need for you to read the tutorial again. :)

This bug with up standing drivers and a not out moving convoy was never reported before.
Can you reproduce it?
Anyone knows something about this?

I guess it could be an addon/conversation mod problem, not directly a bug in the mission.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: bardosy on 16 Sep 2005, 08:05:31
I take two screenshots about this bug. I belive this is not your fault.

screen1 (http://lacko.pcdome.hu/Opflash/image061.JPG)
screen2 (http://lacko.pcdome.hu/Opflash/image062.JPG)

I try your mission again and doesn't happend this, everithing works.

In this new try, I evacuated 5 villages quick and without fight. In the 6th there is no nothing. And in the 7th there are 50-60 zombies. We fought well and I hide the bodies but the overnumbered enemy forced us to retreat. Half of my squad are dead.
We flee very quick and I want reorganise at base, but in half of the way back to base the mission is ended: I gave two redcross penelty.

1., If the mission is end, it's mean there is no more survivors in the island?
2., The starting situation the zombies are randomly in the map? Because in this game I evacuated without fight and when I started fight the game ened. In the forst try I fought a little bit in every evacuation.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation
Post by: Trapper on 16 Sep 2005, 16:02:11
Thanks for all the testing bardosy.

I hope it isn't my fault. I don't know what happened on these screens. :)

1. Yes.
2. Yes, always. Same civilian count everytime, but the first twelve Zombies start randomly in the vincinity of all the villages.

All the remaining survivors had turnend into zombies when the mission ended for you.
The scoring system is customized, it counts how many civilians (100p/survivor) were evacuated and the casualties of your 1st squad and it's two HMMWVs. Score ranges from 0 to 17500 and your score was around 5000 I guess, so thats the reason why your reward was only two redcross'. The star rewards should start around 10000.



The 2nd beta version release is close, this is the changelist so far:

   *computer voices replaced with human voice actors
   *moving mapmarkers for evac convoys
   *improved briefing/tutorial
   *overview picture shadow
   *slightly reduced init lag
   *a few, small bug fixes
   *improved readme
   *two advertisement pics added to the zip

Of course, I had a look at all your suggestions in this 1st beta test. If you want to discuss one of the dropped out suggestions, this would be the best moment to try to persuade me of a last minute change.  8)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 23 Sep 2005, 00:52:37
2nd Beta Version Release

2nd Beta is planed as the last version before the final release. Main goal is the detection of any last bugs that escaped notice until now.
Also my proofreader has no time at the moment. I would appreciate if someone will have a special look at my english for the "Hints" page in briefing. - Or do it right here, at reply #13.

New in 2nd Beta:
- computer voices replaced with human voice actors
- moving mapmarkers for evac convoys
- improved briefing/tutorial
- overview picture shadow
- slightly reduced init lag
- a few, small bug fixes
- improved readme
- two advertisement pics added to the zip

Mirrors:
Rapidshare (http://rapidshare.de/files/5415305/zos_b2.zip.html)
or
Mirror with bandwithlimit - Please try the other first. (http://home.arcor.de/ofptrapper/misc/zos_b2.zip)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 29 Sep 2005, 00:20:46
I know my mission isn't short, but four downloads and no reply until now... ???

Is anyone of my downloaders still doing time extensive tests, or am I doing the right thing with bumping this topic to find a tester? ;)

If you're a native english speaking person and don't like to play my mission, you can already help me with proofreading a short text in reply #13.  8)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Mikero on 29 Sep 2005, 16:47:55
same reply as for Klavan's. I'll put my hand up for you trapper to proof read the hints, but I need a few days as I'm  <ahem> 'otherwise engaged'

Eta 3 days, unless someone else steps in.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: MrN on 30 Sep 2005, 12:46:27
I've only scanned through previous posts so I may be repeating thingsâ€Â¦

Benchmark 6410, ECP 1.085, Vet mode, no super AI

Typo's noted:
In Notes:  no place on earth seems to be safe
Mellecombat: comes too close
Mellecombat: it is as safe

Otherwise, very good.

Overview:
Clean and well presented pic.

Intro:
Fantastic, nicely done.

Briefing:
Complicated but well done. The only niggle I've found is that under Evac sites there's a picture but with no reference to where this is on the map.

Mission:
 
I'm not keen on controlling big squads so I left the majority of the squad at the start and just took 2,3 and with me, with me driving.

First went to San Alto and after a bit of head scratching and briefing reading, I got the civ's to Evac. I then headed North to Vadora and Vilm but it looks like I'm too late, lots of Zombies here. Discover the Melee combat as a zombie starts trying to chew my face off, nice touch.

Then head west and come across a small bunch of zombies, aim for the head! Provoo and Triglav are empty. Only 2 zombies at Saint Bieuc, but a lot at Internia, I guess I'm too late and I witness a big crowd of zombies devouring the civvies. More zombies come from the south and I get shot by my gunner in the HMMWV. Bah!

I load my save game and the sepia tint that I started the mission with has gone. I head off to Internia again, this time I make it in time and most of the civvies survive. I call in the evac.

Head off to the northern part of the island, all towns except Tormes and Leviata are quiet. I call in the evac for Tormes and find I haven't given an evac point for Internia. Hmmmm. I don't really grasp this evac business, I'm a bit simple with things like this, I need telling exactly what I'm supposed to be doing and I can't find anywhere on the map that resembles the picture in the briefing. So, right or wrong I'm sending them to the rescue center.

Then move to Leviata and call for the evac and get told I only have resources for 2 evacs. No bother I'll wait. While I'm waiting I get 5,6 and 7 in a Hummer and head them off to Saint Renoir to see what happens.

They get to their destination and nothing seems to be happening, I get them to disembark and send them around the town, no messages or actions appear so I get them back into the Hummer and move them off to Meridian.

I then get a message saying that  Evac Delta Blue has got stuck and I should reload or hope it's sorted out by itself. Hmmmm. I opt for the wait.
I then get a message saying that  Evac Delta Green has got stuck and I should reload or hope it's sorted out by itself. Hmmmm

QUIT

Well, the premise is excellent, the presentation is excellent, the atmosphere is excellent, good use of addons, the convoy's thoughâ€Â¦bah. If they don't do the job there is a fundamental flaw with the mission. I may be missing something in this but I didn't "get" where I'm supposed to be sending the rescued Civvies to and if the convoys don't work then it makes it all a bit pointless, sorry. I think you need to investigate either how to keep the convoys moving, or use choppers as the evac method.

I also would respectfully request that if I'm downloading all these addons you could also make me download a weapon pack of some description, if I'm taking on Zombies I have to have a shotgun! Shame no one has done a chainsaw addon.  ;D Although this is obviously your call. ;)

No offence intended .  ;)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 30 Sep 2005, 14:30:42
Thank you Mikero, I hope you'll find the time.


Welcome MrN and thanks for the test.  :)

This sepia (gas mask simulation color filter) gone after reloading, is exactly one of the bugs I would have missed before final release.


Damn, now that I added this new picture to the evac tutorial to make it more clear, the picture itself is misconceived.  :P
You have to understand this map picture as a part of any map, no matter where exactly. It's only a principle picture, showing how places on the map should look that I call "prefere open spaces for evacs".

Caused by this misconceiving, here is what happened to your evacs:
1. You selected the evac site in front of the base gates (maybe even usefull in some situations...)
2. The convoy leaves the base and stops after a few meters
3. The civilians run all the way to the base
4. Of course this can take them very long, so the debug message "convoy stuck" kicks in falsely, just because the convoy is not moving if waiting over 15mins at the evac site.

"normal" evac procedure:
1. select the evac site close(/er) to the village you want to evacuate. (Always remember to choose an open place)
2. The convoy leaves the base and the civilians head to wait at the evac site.
3. Convoy arrives, civilians board it in no time.
4. Convoy drives back to base with them.
No falsely triggered debug message. - This is the reason why I leave it up to the player to decide what to do after this message: It can be triggered if the player wants to do something special intentionaly, too.

Was this misconceiving caused by bad english?
Picture subtitle is:
Quote
Good places for evac sites...
Would anything like "Examples for "open spaces"..." be more clear?


You've got no shotgun, because I don't believe they are standard issue US National Guard weapons, especially in this short on supply situation.
Maybe I'm wrong?
I could just add the Remigton 870 to the weapon selection then, but you wouldn't even like it, because everyone hates it to drive back to the rescue center for ammo later, and the shotgun has a max of only 70 shells.

EDIT/offtopic: There's a Michael Vorhees (Friday the 13th) Addon at Farmland, including a chainsaw. But if I remember right it's not for player use. MiG also posted his mission (search Friday 13th) long ago for testing on this board.
Well, I don't want a chainsaw in ZOS :)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: MrN on 30 Sep 2005, 15:11:44
LOL

Quote
the picture itself is misconceived
I SO missed the point of all this evac business.
 :o
You have put a lot of detail in the briefing and now I know what I know it makes sense but before I didn't get it! I assumed (yeah, yeah I know) that the HMMWV's come to where you've just called the extraction and I had to click the map for their end position.

I should have payed more attention in class! ::)

In which case, Point 3 about evacs should be a lot more precise, something like:

Quote
After calling in the evac, single click in an open area near the civilian's location. An orange marker will appear indicating where the HMMWV's will stop.

Quote
Was this misconceiving caused by bad english?
Partly, also I'm guilty of "scanning" the text instead of reading it. If anything you've been a little too descriptive, explaining everything apart from what actually happens.  ;)

If in doubt understate the obvious and overstate the less obvious. (C) Macguba

For example:
Overstating the obvious:
Quote
(Be smart, you know AI drivers)
Yes I do.  ;)

I'll try and help if you want some pointers about the briefing. If no one else has mentioned this then it's probably just me.

Quote
You've got no shotgun, because I don't believe they are standard issue US National Guard weapons
This is no "normal" situation though eh?  ;)

Right, I'm off to try again.  :joystick:
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: MrN on 30 Sep 2005, 16:50:43
ZOS: aka Abandonded Zombies.  ;)

I had a blast with this. But with a but...

Split my team up and send 7,8,9 and 10 to Saint Renoir while I go to San Alto and succesfully evacuate them.  ;D I then head off to Vilm, call in the Evac and move to Vadora. I have to wait while my other Evacs are happening. I "get it" now. smacks forehead on desk

While I wait for the evacs to happen I go back up to Vedora east to watch what happens. The jeeps turn  up and some dudes all wearing gasmasks with their lights on have a look around while the civs got in the jeeps was all very atmospheric. :thumbsup:

Team green report enemy at Saint Renoir so I get them back in the Hummer and order them off to Lebrija. When they get close they start calling out enemy so I order them to Meridian. They're reporting badguys like crazy though so I think I'll get them back up to the North.

I travel to Porvoo and have to defend against a couple of zombies, I have to remind myself to hide the bodies too. I get team green to go to Belnuevue Hospital while I go to Triglav. Which is now empty and quiet.

I then head up to Saint Bieuc, while team green starts calling out more and more targets on their journey north. I get to Saint Bieuc and things are all too quiet, I check the map to check where the marker is and just as I come away from the map I see a couple of Zombies heading up the road from the east. Easy Peasy I think and drive over there to shoot them up. As I drive up to them I notice there's a lot more than just a couple. I stick the Hummer in reverse and start calling out targets to my gunner as more and more zombies run towards us over the brow of the hill. I consider getting out briefly to shoot them up but notice more and more coming our way. So, in true action hero style I put the loud pedal to the floor and drove straight throught them as my gunner was blasting away.

I get 500 metres away and use the opportunity to have a quick look at the map. I am heading towards Internia. That means a dead end. That means I have to go back through them all again. I turn the Hummer around so it's facing the direction of the horde, get out and start calling targets out for the MG. There must have been about 50 of the damn things running towards us. I also get the M60 guy out of the HMMWV so he can join in as I'm running around dodging bullets and zombies to hide as many bodies as I can.

I move on to Jarna and discover nothing. It looks like the I just wiped out the entire population of the 3 towns.  

Same for Elicante.

I check on team greens status and all of a sudden the mission ends. I'm told I rescued over 30 of them.
Score:4400 with 2 red crosses.
Time: 41 minutes.

Well, I feel a bit deflated now. I was having such a good game but that ending was a bit abrupt for my liking. How about having to make it back to the rescue centre and use a black out on the end trigger?

Overall impressions: very nice work indeed. Atmospheric, tense in places and all works ok.

The issue I have now is that you've spent all this time building up to the succesful evacuation and get no reward, just a sudden end. How do I know we've evacuated them all? I haven't visited all the towns yet.

I would prefer to make it back to the base, hopefully there's still some more zombies around to make the journey interesting. Even if there isn't, the thought that there might be still adds tension.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 30 Sep 2005, 23:37:53
Intesive tests, thank you very much.

I've read the unstick vehicle script you told me about. It's close to my own work, but also has two new ideas: Turning the vehicles 180 degrees and getting a disembarked  driver back in.
I'm still hesitating to incorporate them. The evacs heart is one lengthy, fragile script without bugs in theory/test. But in a real game it can be broken now and then by unknown OFP AI inconsistencies and really bad user input.
The script doesn't know it's broken, it just waits and waits for the AI. If I unstick the convoy externely, I can't kill the old script. So from there on two scripts would control the same convoy, with even more unpredictable consequences... Well, I'm digressing.
I prefer my reloading recommendation, because it's more "Keep it simple, stupid". 8)
Thinking about all this, maybe completely new evac scripting from scratch, based on all the new knowledge, would be the real solution. :noo:
...hm, but you don't mention any stucked convoy in your latest test, very good. ;)

The shotgun...
You're still playing in the last hours of a "normal" situation. It's all fictional and I would expect first military reponse to be very "normal" and they're in a hurry, too.
If you find me an information source, which shows me that shotguns are common firearms in the US Army National Guard, you'll get one. 8)

The briefing...
Almost everyone made the mistake to only scan the tutorial at first. But I'm sure that's a major problem with all long briefings.
What I've tried, is to include my "game manual" into OFP. Mission briefing is only plan and notes. All the links in the notes are the documentation how to play. Formating options are very limited in game, but alt+tabbing for a .pdf is even worse.
Quote
OLD
3. Single click on the map to select coordinates for the evac.
(Be smart, you know the AI drivers)
An orange marker appears.
NEW
3. Single click on the map to select an open area for the pick up.
An orange marker appears.
ALSO CHANGED
Defination of "open area"...
-mapscreenshot-
Ok?
If you have some more really good pointers about the briefing go on. Where ever I can make it shorter, while getting it even better - perfect.

The end...
I know, I know. I've made it that short, because most testers told me the mission is soooo long, and I thought no one of them would like to drive home 10 minutes just for debriefing. ;D Also there is no way for the scripts to tell if the player is sure about all the civilian survivors.
Hm, what about ending the mission with a radio command? If you like to even without playing :) This would add a new factor to the mission/highscore hunt: The player has to reckon the overall situation on his own.

Highscore is 17500, so just XX for you. IMO an average result for completing it the first time.
When you're ready your brain will automaticly switch the mission to "Expert Mode", and you will search for the ultimate highscore strategie. ;)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: MrN on 01 Oct 2005, 00:24:31
Quote
Keep it simple, stupid
Agreed, bear in mind that I sent you that after my own misconceptions about the mission. I now get it, this needs a couple of plays to see if the convoy is consistent.

Quote
The shotgun...
This was more in jest than seriousness. Don't worry about this, the last play I had required more of the Hummer MG than any fire I could provide.

Quote
Almost everyone made the mistake to only scan the tutorial at first. But I'm sure that's a major problem with all long briefings.
This is a tricky one to manage. You want to provide as much information as possible but the player just wants to get stuck in. I found having a lot of fluff like:

Quote
A) Concept of operation. The 3rd platoon will evacuate all civilian survivors at 2315. 1st squad will search the settlements and establish contact to coordinate the evacuations. 2nd squad is on-call at base and will execute the evacuations. 3rd squad and platoon headquarters are maintaining the base.

B) Missions for subordinate units:
1) 1st squad will support any civilians in danger.
2) 2nd squads priority is to gurantee security of the evac convoys.
3) Corpses have to be disposed.

Service Support.

A) Supply. Standard issue NBC protective gear and one flashlight per man. Additional ammo can be received at base during mission. HMMWV C-11 and C-12 are allocated to 1st squad. They will carry additional first-aid kits. HMMWV C-21, C-22, C-23 and C-24 are allocated to 2nd squad.

B) Maintenance. A workshop is located at base.

C) Medical. Medical support is located at base.

Command and Signal.

A) Command. I will be with the 1st squad, and the platoon sergeant will be at base. Succession of command is SOP.

B) Signal:
1) AlphaRed - Platoon Leader (me)
2) DeltaGreen - 1st evac convoy
3) DeltaBlue - 2nd evac convoy

made me glaze over and start to "scan" instead of reading the important stuff. Don't take this the wrong way, there's nothing wrong with it but it's just too much. Think about ditching it.


Quote
If you have some more really good pointers about the briefing go on
Can't guarantee they will be really good pointers but I'll try. ;)

Quote
The end...
Needs ending. I may be alone on this but I'll stick to my corner anyway. ;) I really think the player needs to end this himself, just having the thing end on it's own is like someone serving you a fantastic, tasty meal and just as you're thinking you're going to struggle to finish it, they walk up and take your plate away.  ???

Quote
there is no way for the scripts to tell if the player is sure about all the civilian survivors
That is a real shame. How are you doing it at the moment then?

Quote
IMO an average result for completing it the first time.
Pah!

 ;)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 01 Oct 2005, 02:17:00
What you call fluff is called a realistic briefing at ofpec tutorials and the US military. ;D
I need it for subtile atmospheric reasons in this place: Feel like a real soldier in a fictional situation becoming true.
The real thing out of place (and then scanned) is the tutorial/manual. I would like to ship my mission in a box, with this damn thing as a hard copy! ;)
You're right, it results in the unimportant text hiding the important. There's nothing I can do about it (?) :)

For now the mission just ends a few seconds after no alive civilians outside the center are present anymore. - An endmission radio command instead should help. Adds a lot to the atmosphere, after all the player's character is in command for Sarugao and would really be the one to say when evacs become pointless.
Also everyone who likes to, will be able to continue the zombie hunting after evacuating. Maybe a little score bonus for finishing with the island free from Zombies.

Hey, the last time I've played it, I also had rescued less than 60 (more than 30) survivors. :)
And I thought I've already found the perfect strategy for any random created spread...  :(
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Mikero on 01 Oct 2005, 12:16:10
typos fixed
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 01 Oct 2005, 14:10:51
 :o
Mikero I hope you only worked on the small page called "hints" even if you sent me the whole briefing.html. Everything else was already proofread once. :)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 04 Oct 2005, 13:46:12
Shit, Mikero you really did it completely. :)
Well, please understand that I can't incorporate all the changes you suggested there, but all the typos you and had MrN found are fixed.

After changing some parts in the next version, I had to add new lines to the briefing. Would anyone like to have a look? (Oh and please, o n l y these lines, not the whole briefing again you busy beta testers.) ;)

Quote
- Mission ends on your command. You decide when it is pointless to continue the evacuation.
-----
But in the end...
measure your success by the number of rescued survivors:
Maximum score is 17500, also you can get +1000 bonus points for killing all zombies.
-----
End Mission:
You'll have to end the mission yourself, if you're sure that you evacuated all survivors. Only survivors that reached the rescue center are taken into account for scoring.
Eliminating all zombies before, will give you a little bonus of 1000 points.
-----
You can't cancel an evac! Even if you reload the automatic savegame, you are stuck evacuating the selected civ group.
It will only help you to select a better evaczone for them, where the evac HMMWVs won't get stuck.
-----
If you swap squad weapons on the field, everyone will only receive the default magazine loadout for the swapped weapons.

The only civil weapon supported is the Glock.
-----
Definition of "open places"... (a picture subtitle)
-----
no ammunition available for these firearms (ingame message)

Otherwise, the only things left for me to work on are the player commanded end and some formal additions to the readme.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: zombiewarfare on 04 Oct 2005, 23:18:27
not really a 'testing' topic, but would you ever just maybe consider including a couple of 'civilians' ('resistance'?) with, say, Winchester rifles?

ps genius with the ultra-realistic 'ant farm' approach. Genius!
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 04 Oct 2005, 23:58:21
Thank you!

Have you played the mission already?
The civilians at each village are randomly armed to have a random chance of survival until you reach them. Common are two or three weapons for each village. Possible are hunting rifles, double barrel shotguns and revolvers.
In the two "cities" only policemen are armed, either with Glock pistol or pistol + pumpgun.
For any other weapon type I would have to use more addons.

Maybe you're talking about adding roaming looters, who attack everyone they see.
I was thinking about this, but decided against, as it would be a crazy idea for this small island. They all (175) should know each other someway. Also the whole population would be either poor or rich, so there wouldn't form up "gangs" in the first hours. IMHO ;)

Technicaly this could switch completely the ant colony now.
If there would be only one marauding group, killing everyone, it would increase the spread and remotely controlled soldiers would be killed when they encouter them.
This isn't possible as the mission is already very hard, if you want to get close to the highscore.
Title: Can the Civvies win?
Post by: dang on 09 Oct 2005, 09:45:23
I'm wondering, can the civvies beat back the zombie outbreak themselves? I haven't tested this mission myself, but after reading the earlier posts, I know that some of the civvies are armed. So have the civilians ever killed off all of the zombies in any of your playtests?



Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 09 Oct 2005, 11:04:55
Never.
They can't dispose them of after killing, so a zombie stands up after 2mins again. Coming closer and closer. Armed civilians slow them down only.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: MIG on 10 Oct 2005, 13:31:29
2nd Beta Version Release

2nd Beta is planed as the last version before the final release. Main goal is the detection of any last bugs that escaped notice until now.
Also my proofreader has no time at the moment. I would appreciate if someone will have a special look at my english for the "Hints" page in briefing. - Or do it right here, at reply #13.

New in 2nd Beta:
- computer voices replaced with human voice actors
- moving mapmarkers for evac convoys
- improved briefing/tutorial
- overview picture shadow
- slightly reduced init lag
- a few, small bug fixes
- improved readme
- two advertisement pics added to the zip

Mirrors:
Rapidshare (http://rapidshare.de/files/5415305/zos_b2.zip.html)
or
Mirror with bandwithlimit - Please try the other first. (http://home.arcor.de/ofptrapper/misc/zos_b2.zip)

Mirror:

http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/farmland/uploads/zos_b2.zip (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/farmland/uploads/zos_b2.zip)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 11 Oct 2005, 01:43:33
Thanks MiG.
(The hint text in reply #13 is already proofread.)

While working on the radio commanded end, I've finaly figured out how to create a notepad for the player. - Have a look at the attached image. I hope it doesn't come with any bugs. :)

I've to ask again for typos ect in those lines:
Quote
- Mission ends on your command. You decide when it is pointless to continue the evacuation.
-----
But in the end...
measure your success by the number of rescued survivors:
Maximum score is 17500, also you can get +1000 bonus points for killing all zombies.
-----
Status / End Mission:
Opens the evacuation list.
Evacuations are logged automaticly, but you are able to change status "unknown" to "dead".
You'll have to end the mission yourself, if you're sure that you evacuated all survivors. Only survivors that reached the rescue center are taken into account for scoring.
Eliminating all zombies before, will give you a little bonus of 1000 points.
-----
You can't cancel an evac! Even if you reload the automatic savegame, you are stuck evacuating the selected civ group.
It will only help you to select a better evaczone for them, where the evac HMMWVs won't get stuck.
-----
If you swap squad weapons on the field, everyone will only receive the default magazine loadout for the swapped weapons.

The only civil weapon supported is the Glock.
-----
Definition of "open places"... (a picture subtitle)
-----
no ammunition available for these firearms (ingame message)
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 12 Oct 2005, 01:11:38
Anyone??
I would really like to know about typos ect in the lines above before releasing V1.0
This and a last test by myself are the only things missing now.
Title: Re:ZOS/Zombie Outbreak Simulation (2nd Beta)
Post by: Trapper on 13 Oct 2005, 23:32:03
Final V1.0 Release

After the lines passed in the BIS forum, I've released V1.0.

I consider this beta test as finished. Thank you everybody!
Topic remains unsolved for a short while.

You can download the new version (http://www.ofpec.com/missions_depot/index.php?action=details&id=38) at the Mission Depot.