OFPEC Forum

Addons & Mods Depot => OFP - Addons & Mods Beta Testing => Topic started by: wired on 26 Oct 2003, 14:05:29

Title: BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: wired on 26 Oct 2003, 14:05:29
how cum, after all this time, no one has bothered to make a knife if sum kind? if any one has, or u are willing to make it, or if u hav an idea in the same kinda area, please reply!
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Cpl. Vagabond on 27 Oct 2003, 13:22:34
whats the point???, the knife would have be a secondary weapon which means the player must have resistance...and why would you trade in your pistol for a knife, if i hade to trade in my beretta 92fs for anything it would be more mags for my primary....knife....you'd get shot before you could use it
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: wired on 27 Oct 2003, 15:38:05
what about if you crept behing an enemy soldier who has his back turned and slash his wind pipe? it would be good for killing some1 without getting noticed as the knife wouldn't make a noise when you used it and the man cant alert any1.

Anyway, it was just a thought!
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Cpl. Vagabond on 27 Oct 2003, 15:39:33
NOO!!!!! use a silenced pistol, much better
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: wired on 27 Oct 2003, 16:39:02
but you might run out of ammo!
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: GrimMonkey on 27 Oct 2003, 16:50:53
Not if you shoot them in the head or the heart!


Beware the GrimMonkey
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Torak on 27 Oct 2003, 19:28:25
what about if you crept behing an enemy soldier who has his back turned and slash his wind pipe? it would be good for killing some1 without getting noticed as the knife wouldn't make a noise when you used it and the man cant alert any1.

Anyway, it was just a thought!

Real special forces will hardly ever use a knife for killing silently; a suppressed pistol is more commonly used. Besides, it's often quieter - cutting someone's throat is a noisy business.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Kaliyuga on 27 Oct 2003, 20:12:24
means the player must have resistance

 There is absolutely no excuse at this point for not having it ;)
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Cpl. Vagabond on 27 Oct 2003, 20:39:40
true, everyone should be using the latest version
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Mark McGrath on 27 Oct 2003, 22:49:42
I beg to differ with the statement real Special Forces doesnt use there knife.  Many many silent kills are better done with a knife.  The Spetsnaz or Spets natz as most of you call them have a heavy training regiment of silent kill techniques using cold steel.  Not to mention one of my friends who actually honestly was a navy seal about 20 years ago (currently teaches his own MA in Las Vagas) talks about using knives a whole lot.  Now granted the silenced pistol concept works fine however they still make sound if your paying attention.  Not to mention that improper bullet placement may make them jerk the trigger of the gun from the shock of the bullet entering the brain.  It is much more efficent to use a bladed weapon due to the natural response of the person to grab for the knife or hand.  This gets there hands away from the weapon.  However a proper throat decapitation is necesary as well.  If you just do the blade accross the throat like your dragging the blad from ear to ear it will not cut the larinx.  IF you dont cut that the reaction of muscles breath being exspelled etc will cause horrible sounds.  That I know from car wreck victoms.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Mr_Shady on 27 Oct 2003, 22:59:50
IRL, a knife is much better IMHO as they're silent, multi-functional (try cutting a patch of material for your torn clothes with a 9mm), they don't jam and they don't run out of bullets. In OFP, however, you'd be much better off with a silenced pistol, as the guns never jam, and the AI wouldn't notice you in some circumstances if you were dancing around them in a luminous pink jumpsuit throwing fireworks at them and singing opera at the top of your voice.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Torak on 28 Oct 2003, 14:53:36
I beg to differ with the statement real Special Forces doesnt use there knife.  Many many silent kills are better done with a knife.  The Spetsnaz or Spets natz as most of you call them have a heavy training regiment of silent kill techniques using cold steel.  Not to mention one of my friends who actually honestly was a navy seal about 20 years ago (currently teaches his own MA in Las Vagas) talks about using knives a whole lot.  Now granted the silenced pistol concept works fine however they still make sound if your paying attention.  Not to mention that improper bullet placement may make them jerk the trigger of the gun from the shock of the bullet entering the brain.  It is much more efficent to use a bladed weapon due to the natural response of the person to grab for the knife or hand.  This gets there hands away from the weapon.  However a proper throat decapitation is necesary as well.  If you just do the blade accross the throat like your dragging the blad from ear to ear it will not cut the larinx.  IF you dont cut that the reaction of muscles breath being exspelled etc will cause horrible sounds.  That I know from car wreck victoms.

I have to agree with much of that, but most people don't have the training to kill silently with knives, which is what I meant. There are, of course, ways of killing silently; through the occipital region of the cranium, by shattering the C5 cervical vertebra, up through the gap in the mandible, or by severing the jugular vein by cutting along the sternomastoid. Or, of course, by severing the spinal cord from the front by stabbing through the pit just by the clavicle.

But this conversation is taking a distinctly sinister turn, don't you think? I blame it on an addiction to medical textbooks (yes, I'm studying to become a lawyer, but I recently bought "The Practice Of Anaesthesia" just for fun...).

The SAS have been known to use suppressed .22 pistols like the Ruger series for taking out guard dogs; they're very quiet, though I'd be wary of relying too much on a round as weak as that.

Possible the best suppressed weapon, IMO, is the DeLisle carbine - basically a .45 ACP sniper rifle, and one of the few truly silenced firearms. It was barely louder than the firing pin hitting the round.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: SEAL84 on 29 Oct 2003, 00:38:50
I've heard two different stories on this:

It is considered more or less an art to be able to kill silently with a knife, since it has to be perfect and the guy you're trying to kill can still trash around and make noise if it isn't flawless.

Now, I've heard that SEALs, even back in 'Nam, preferred a silenced pistol or SMG over a knife since a single shot to the head is so much easier on a stationary guard then creeping up on him and knifing him.  Not only is it easier, there's the range and ammo element - if the guy for some reason turns around and there you are with a knife in your hand about 5 feet away, you're in trouble.  The pistol lets you stay out of harms' way and still drop the guy.

The second case is that I've heard it's in fact better to slash the back of the neck - apparantly you're supposed to be able to immediately sever the spinal cord.  It's easier from behind because 1) the spinal cord is towards the back of the neck anyway, and 2) the location of the wound prohibits much bleeding.  Supposedly if you do it right it's not only instantaneous, but silent and quite bloodless.

But.......that's what I read somewhere..... :o
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Torak on 29 Oct 2003, 00:58:50
Agreed; if a silent kill is required, the spinal cord is definitely a better bet rather than relying on drowning (which, if you think about it, is what would happen when someone's throat is cut). Another option, of course, is the classic twisting-the-neck trick, as done by Arnie and Stallone in numerous bad action films... ;D

Still, I don't think I'd be able to kill someone at close quarters like that unless it was in self-defence. In a military context I'd use a gun any day.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Mark McGrath on 29 Oct 2003, 23:28:41
Im not saying its a common things its just something I was tought to do by a very old and very x navy seal.  Also training with the Spetnaz I had the plesure of learning things.  However I personally would rather shoot them.  That poses some questions about where to strike.  As some of you know a shot to the head isnt always a gaurented kill.  Like one guy who just got shipped out with a bandage.  He took a AK round to the back of the head and the bullet didnt hit anything umm I guess note worthy.  THe docks said he lost a little motor function and some slured speach but could probably rehab through it.  I was like WOW.  

As for the 22 thats a damn good round.  A great sniper can hit a man that is moving at 1000 yards with a 50 cal.  A excelent sniper can hit a man in the eye and any distance with a 22 in the eye and let the bullet rattle around killing his target.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Torak on 30 Oct 2003, 01:23:33
Agreed, the .22LR is a nice round to fire, but I wouldn't trust its power and accuracy over long ranges. A .22 WMR or Hornet perhaps, but overall I far prefer the 5.56mm/.223 round.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: gundam007 on 30 Oct 2003, 03:51:45
only amateurs slit throats... that makes noise and a bloody mess... a stab to the base of the skull (hits the medula oblongata) is the right way
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Torak on 30 Oct 2003, 11:49:35
Precisely, which is one of the methods I suggested above:

Quote
I have to agree with much of that, but most people don't have the training to kill silently with knives, which is what I meant. There are, of course, ways of killing silently; through the occipital region of the cranium, by shattering the C5 cervical vertebra, up through the gap in the mandible, or by severing the jugular vein by cutting along the sternomastoid. Or, of course, by severing the spinal cord from the front by stabbing through the pit just by the clavicle.

It actually goes through the gap just beside the occipital bone, but still. But some sort of spike would be more effective.

Incidentally, that method of killing is shown in quite gruesome detail in the film "Förebudet", published by the Swedish military back in the eighties.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Bucket man on 30 Oct 2003, 13:42:23
A shot in the head is not a quaranteed kill. I read about finnish soldier who was shot by a russian officer. Russians were attacking and this officer jumped in to the trench and shot that finnish man with a pistol from point blank range.
The bullet went between his brain halves and stopped in the back of his head. He woke up in a field hospital and had nothing wrong with him but a bad headache.  :o
Doctors were amazed of his luck.

Thats why in a real word snipers never shoot in the forehead unlike in the movies.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Mr_Shady on 30 Oct 2003, 14:33:32
Apparently, the bog-standard .22 round is a very good for close-in, stealthy work. Weapons that use it are inherently quiet, and if you hit someone in the back of the head at short to close range, the round'll go through their skull, pass through the brain, but won't go out the front, instead coming back into the brain and making a nice old mess of their grey matter.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: wired on 30 Oct 2003, 21:32:51
ok so a machette is out of the question. but what about a bayonette? it could be put on the end of a gun, like the m16 mortar, but requires u to drive it into sum unluky persons chest. So far every1 has been talkin about a machette in this thread when the thread is called "BAYONETTE/MACHETTE"!

 :booty: :booty: :booty: :booty: :booty: :booty: :booty: :booty:

he he he!

wired
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Josef on 31 Oct 2003, 18:51:16
A bayonet that could be detatched would be ideal...

ITS CRED; ITS COOL!

And its multi use...

Perhaps in Ofp2, it could be included...

***Its great In BF1942, I use the thrown knife often...
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: m21man on 31 Oct 2003, 19:57:04
The Mortar animation could be used for putting the bayonet on the rifle.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: wired on 31 Oct 2003, 23:49:16
but the question is.............is it possible in ofp1?
it probably will be in ofp2 but thats been delayed to 2005 at least so thats a good two years away. CAN IT BE POS IN OFP?
 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
 wired
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: gundam007 on 07 Nov 2003, 02:50:51
oh... i got my medula oblongata technique from Without Remorse, an excellent novel by Tom Clancy, revealing the origins of John Clark
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Torak on 07 Nov 2003, 11:25:31
Yeah, don't rely blindly on his books; a lot of it is accurate, but bits are entirely fictional. The thing about stabbing the medulla through the occipital bone is absolutely correct, though.

I got an email from Clancy once, actually, following a conversation about the MP5/10, which of course ends up in his books as the MP-10. Turns out that the FBI have their own internal designation (much like the US military calls the Minimi the M249, while the Swedes call it Ksp90), calling it the MP-10, so it's not entirely wrong.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Josef on 09 Nov 2003, 12:11:39
To make it happen, you would need custom anims...

You could config the weapons to use the pistiol slot, make a unit(Spetznaz;D) With a custom anim for holding and using the pistol...

Then, you would config the pistol to fire s LARGE grenade shell, that is invisible...

It would have limited range, and dammage as an ordinary ehell that does not explode...
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: DBR_ONIX on 19 Nov 2003, 23:27:41
Um, its not easy to cut someone through (Read Bravo Two zero, Andy McNab), it take a few people to jump down on someone, stop them fom shouting, and hack at the neck with the knife... Messy... Not always silent...

- Ben
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Torak on 20 Nov 2003, 00:50:04
Absolutely correct, as I think we may have covered once or twice already... ;D
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: wired on 20 Nov 2003, 18:03:46
Whats the matter wid gore?
What u think that if u slit someones throat they'll get up and mop up the blood?
G   E   T         R   E   A   L
More blood
More gore
Better ofp
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: asmodeus on 20 Nov 2003, 21:49:16
In RL, gore would give away your position, should a patrol come across the area where the killing took place.

"Gee, why is my boot all sticky?"

"You've got Johnsons brains all over them!"

 :P

Asmo
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: m21man on 20 Nov 2003, 23:05:15
The after effects of a large firefight in Tatu would be interesting...Rivers of red :P .
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Torak on 21 Nov 2003, 12:27:07
Whats the matter wid gore?
What u think that if u slit someones throat they'll get up and mop up the blood?
G   E   T         R   E   A   L
More blood
More gore
Better ofp
 ;D ;D ;D

Get realistic.

Less blood, less gore... ;D

Seriously, though, people don't bleed that much, and combat wounds don't generally look as serious as you seem to think. In the Soldier Of Fortune games, for instance, it's ridiculously exagerrated.

For real wounds, I suggest you read the AAOS Emergency Care And Transportation Manual (ISBN 0-89203-165-4).

Anyway, if you were on a covert op you'd try to minimise trail as much as possible - and a large pool of blood is a bit of a giveaway, plus it stains your clothes and makes it difficult to move. Trust me, it's bad enough crawling through undergrowth with water dribbling down inside your shirt, I don't even want to imagine it with someone else's blood...
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: wired on 21 Nov 2003, 17:50:11
yer sure maybe your right, you dont bleed much when you get stabbed in the jugular vein with a twelve inch machette!
who said the machette would just be for special ops?

Cool for showing the slaughtering of poor civis and their dogs (the one by teacup)!
Er......looks like last nights dinner!

 ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Torak on 22 Nov 2003, 12:56:55
You don't stab with a machete, it would glance off. You'd use a slashing motion, and would be quite likely to almost detach the head. And yes, that would bleed a lot if the body was lying downhill...
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: DBR_ONIX on 22 Nov 2003, 15:11:23
BTW, as for head shots.. Best shot is at the ear lobe... Target goes down like water... (Severs some motor cord, or something..)

Can't remeber exactly...
- Ben
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Yippyfn on 22 Nov 2003, 15:32:56
Well I think it would be pretty cool to have a bayonet, especially when house clearing. And with WWII units.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: DBR_ONIX on 22 Nov 2003, 18:24:02
Agreed.... Is some one gonna try?
I could maybe make the model... But not the other stuff (Scripts etc)
- Ben
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: SHOT@RUSIANS on 22 Nov 2003, 21:54:48
if this works then maybe all mods in the future nay have the bayonnet i know gore is bad but hey why can't there be a animation where if some one threw a grenado ar land mine why can't some body parts uuummm come off p.s i know this may dissturb some people but hey every hates somethin that some one else likes!!! oh yeah the machete would have o be a pistol class if it was seperate addon and the bayonet would be cool tho the mag types should be infinite ie there was a chainsaw sumwhere that worked as i was saying two mags one would be a cross body/throat slice and the other a thrusting stab attack... tho yeah the model is easy enuff the anim is very hard!!!
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: DBR_ONIX on 23 Nov 2003, 13:36:04
Eactly why I didn't offer to do the anims :P
Any takers....?
- Ben
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: General Barron on 24 Nov 2003, 05:55:34
Christ, people... I think this thread is going a little off topic..... If I remember correctly, the original post was in essence about adding close-combat weapons to OFP. NOT about human anatomy.

ANYWAY, I know this has been attempted before, more than once. I'm not sure if anybody ever came up with a good hand-to-hand weapon, but I know somebody was working on a Katana at one point. And I saw a drill and a chainsaw at one site, but I dont' think they worked very well. What I would do is try searching the official forums a bit, and see what turns up; that's where I saw people working on this stuff before.

Now, as far as usefulness:

In standard OFP missions, a bayonette might be usefull at times. Mainly for close quarters fighting, like in an urban environment. I know there have been times where I have run out of ammo with an enemy really close to me, and it would have saved my life to be able to hit the spacebar and then run up and stab him. In those cases, pulling out your pistol just takes too long. Also, I think it would just be more fun to be able to charge a guy 10 meters away and stab him to death, rather than just shooting him. I tend to charge guys anyway, then just shoot them at point-blank :)

I don't think a knife would be very useful in standard ofp missions, though, since you would have to switch weapons, and it would be better just to pull out a pistol. However, in non-standard missions, a knife or sword would be great fun. Think about a zombie-killing mission, for example. Or how about an urban mission, where there is a gang-brawl in the streets. A big melee with chains and knives would be pretty cool. And, if anyone ever made a WWI or earlier mod, you would certainly run out of ammo quickly (and shoot slowly), so swords (and bayonettes especially) would be more useful. I don't think anyone will ever make a US civil-war mod, but if they did, swords and bayonets would be  used as much as bullets!
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Silent on 06 Dec 2003, 19:27:59
 :booty:
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: DBR_ONIX on 06 Dec 2003, 23:41:26
Hehe :P:P

Um...
Any one want to make anim/stuff like that... If so I'll start on the model..
- Ben
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: blackhawkdown132 on 25 May 2004, 03:11:27
would a throwing knife be feasible. Rockets and missle are visible when they leave the rail, why not knives. You could use the grenade throwing animation. A while back Gimbal made some throwers using this technolodgy.
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: DBR_ONIX on 25 May 2004, 16:57:51
Hmm, g'd idea :D
I'll look at gimbals guys to see if I can mod it with knifes :D
Maybe a little higher dammage

*Looks out Mr De Pbo*
:D
- Ben
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: blackhawkdown132 on 25 May 2004, 22:56:27
if u do send it 2 me! ;D
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Pathy on 26 May 2004, 23:46:01
I cant believe nobodies mentioned PUKF bayonettes  :o

Out now!! :)

www.project-ukf.com

Been spending alot of time stabbing people  ;D
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: General Barron on 27 May 2004, 03:58:33
I cant believe nobodies mentioned PUKF bayonettes  :o

Out now!! :)

www.project-ukf.com

Been spending alot of time stabbing people  ;D

Take a look at the date on this thread.... it was MONTHS old a few posts ago, before someone decided to dig it back up. If I'm not mistaken, PUKF only released their bayonettes a few weeks ago.  :o
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: DBR_ONIX on 29 May 2004, 18:28:37
Woo
:D
Also, I just remebered.. The mod I'm working on, the SA80s are gonna get bayonets (The Chechnya Mod).. As are other weapons (I'm sure)

it was only mentioned, a while ago.. So I kinda forrgot ::)

Anyway, I'll still try the Throwing Knifes mod addon things
As it could be fun ;)

I'll check out that site just now :D
- Ben
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: .303 on 03 Jun 2004, 06:48:02
A knife or bayonet just isn't a useful battlefield weapon.as for cutting someones throat in a stealth situation,it just ain't that quiet,especially if you open the windpipe a properly silenced pistol using subsonic hollowpoint ammo is far better
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: DBR_ONIX on 05 Jun 2004, 12:36:17
Hmm.. :D
Look for Bill Killer on www.ofp.info (On the news section, still I think)
And download it.. The knif.pbo has two knifes.. Ones a little knife (The knife.p3d.pbo one) And the other is a longer samuri sowrd

It needs a new anim.. And it only works on your own side (It's impossible to kill an armed enemy, as they turn round and kill ya before you can hit him)
The anim is the strokefist/weapon one

But it shows it's possible
- Ben
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: bigdog632 on 05 Jun 2004, 22:30:07
the welrod is a gun id like to see in OFP it is a 22 or 32 cal silencer with a firing pin

they used it in ww2 and beyond and it still has some classified parts i believe but it is almost dead silent

this link says 9mm so i dunno but here is what it looks like
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Single-Shot-Pistols/Welrod.htm
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: Major_Fubar on 09 Jun 2004, 03:34:09
I'm working on a machete as a side-project. It will have photoreal textures, and a new "slashing" animation. No release date set yet, but 1 would estimate another month or so.  :-*
Title: Re:BAYONET/MACHETTE
Post by: DBR_ONIX on 09 Jun 2004, 19:35:29
the welrod is a gun id like to see in OFP it is a 22 or 32 cal silencer with a firing pin

they used it in ww2 and beyond and it still has some classified parts i believe but it is almost dead silent

this link says 9mm so i dunno but here is what it looks like
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Single-Shot-Pistols/Welrod.htm
Eh? That was ranomd ::)
Make up a new thread :)
Theres a really silent gun in Hidden&Dangerous 2 (WW2 game), a sorta SMG, but it's almost silent
From the picture, it looks really simple to model.. But it won't be seen from this thread

Anyway, Major_Fubar.. A month? :'(
Heheh.. Anyway, sounds cool :)
Is it gonna be done as a pistol slot weapon, I guess? The holding anim would fit (Holding it with to hands)

How are you gonna do the "have I hit him" thing? Look for the Bayonet/Machete thread, my post near the end, for an idea (Constatly firing short lived bullets, that kill anything they hit, ie an enemy when the blade swings though them, the bullets are where the blade it, thus killing them)

Gd luck :D
- Ben