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Addons & Mods Depot => OFP - Addons & Mods Beta Testing => Topic started by: p00_p00 on 10 Jun 2003, 09:46:47

Title: Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 10 Jun 2003, 09:46:47
HEY HEY

Suprised i havnt seen this idea yet - well i saw a few threads on Destroyers, but Im assuming you meant the modern day missile laden destroyers.

But i wanna take you all back to the 60's to early 80's (when Cold War Crisis, Red Hammer and Recistance take place) in which Cruisers and Battleships were still the king of the sea's (well besides Air Craft Carriers).

But I would like a BIG Cruiser/BShip made very much like those in Battlefield - big 12 inch guns that can pund the coasts of Everon, Malden etc. Also a plus would be the abiltity to walk on deck like in Battlefield 1942. But the most important thing is the inculusion of the 12 inch guns as well as some modern missile launching capabilities and definitely anti aircraft capabilities (a phalanx woul;d be VERY nice)

But I mainly would like more naval units made. I know theirs a sub floating around somewhere (havnt had time 2 DL it), but i hear it doesnt have any capabilities. But damn a Tyhpoon n Akula would be swweeeeeeettttt. Oh n we cant forget about some Yankee subs eh? An LA class would be nice as well. So more destroyers, subs n bships

PS
Whats an LST??? Landing Ship Transport?????

Cheers
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 10 Jun 2003, 11:09:13
yeah but the LST  doesnt land. its a huge ship which holds LCU's (landing craft utlity boats) wateva, or a tanks which can go through the water
i would like the big destroyer Iwoa Jima destroyer...... with its huge guns. Or maybe HMS Vanguard or talking modern days a type 42 UK destroyer............ or one of those boxer class ships or a trident submarine (enough bout the royal Navy)
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: CBFASI on 10 Jun 2003, 20:04:12
Falklands Mod WILL be doing Type 42's and Type 82's
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Kaliyuga on 10 Jun 2003, 21:06:09
Oh and we cant forget about some Yankee subs eh?


PS
Whats an LST??? Landing Ship Transport?????

 Yeah.. I get a good chuckle when I think of the fact that out of everyone that's trying to make a sub right now....  they're all on the Soviet side ::)

 And in fact one is the same exact boat as we're finishing up on right now :P


About your LST question... it would seem that LST stands for  Tank Landing Ship according to this bit I found:   (must have let someone dyslexic do the naming for this one)  
Quote
The Tank Landing Ship (LST) mission is to load and transport cargo, vehicles of all types, and troops to a combat area. These ships can launch amphibious vehicles via a stern gate as well as land vehicles to a beach or causeway over a bowramp. Troops and equipment can also be transported via helicopter. Two ten-ton booms offload cargo to boats or a pier. Frederick's lift capacity includes 29 tanks and over 350 troops and their equipment


Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: rancor_man67 on 11 Jun 2003, 01:23:40
YEAH!!! A big battleship would be great!!!! I heard somthing somewere about only able to put one turrert on a ship with current ofp. Is this true???
Mabey ofp 2. A ship which you could land choppers on would be good to!!!

Rancor.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Kaliyuga on 11 Jun 2003, 01:32:22
I heard somthing somewere about only able to put one turrert on a ship with current ofp. Is this true???
Mabey ofp2

Yes.. it's true.. there can only be one firing point per boat.....

and they have already said that multiple weapons per vehicle  are more than likely going to make it into OFP2
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: vektorboson on 11 Jun 2003, 01:51:32
@rancor_man

Well, actually there is one ship availalable, that has two turrets, it is the pauk class fast attack ship. Actually these turrets are two different models, so you need a script to attach the turret to the Pauk.

I'm right now researching possibilities of ship and submarine warfare in OFP1, since I'm working with Winny (modeller&texturer) on a Kilo class submarine for the AEF-Campaign (like Asmodeus and Kaliyuga).

Take a look here:
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?sekce=unofaddons/boats
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: asmodeus on 11 Jun 2003, 08:03:02
Yeah, I've seen that Pauk class ship.. The multiple guns was interesting...  It was an action menu choice to move between positions and worked ok.   ;)

But yeah, if you're interested in boats and subs, here's a couple pics for you:  (the boat is released, sub not yet)

http://www.everoncartel.com/subraised.jpg

http://www.everoncartel.com/newside.jpg

About the battleship possibility.. It's definately doable, it's just that it probably would have to be made like the aircraft carrier where it's several pieces...  So the battleship probably wouldn't be able to go anywhere.  (it'd be a nightmare steering it on any island but Desert Island so far anyway)   ;)

Asmo
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: rancor_man67 on 11 Jun 2003, 08:24:24
Thats right, i remember the double gunned boat.

How much is naval power used in OPF missions?? would it be better to just use a bombardment script??

I still would like a big battleship or a destroyer or somthing though!  ;D

Would it be possible to land a chopper on the back of the LST (or a boat with a helipad) and use an action menu command to attach the chopper to the boat so you can drive it without it falling off or anything? It would be good to get out of the chopper and walk across the deck to.

Thanks.

Rancor.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 12 Jun 2003, 15:37:34
Well I know the high seas in OF is limited, but it would be cool to put in a MP game much like Battlefield - Get a scout to send co-ordinates to the human gunner on the ship so they can pound the sh!t out of Enemy bases and armour etc. It makes it better

Shame about only one gun turret since most Bships have 1 forward and 1 rear.

Oh and I think Russian subs are(well were) the best b4 the USSR collapsed and couldnt maintain and update them.

Oh on another note, did you know you can sink the LST?
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: DeLiltMon on 12 Jun 2003, 15:53:30
Would it be possible to land a chopper on the back of the LST (or a boat with a helipad) and use an action menu command to attach the chopper to the boat so you can drive it without it falling off or anything? It would be good to get out of the chopper and walk across the deck to.

Don't see why not, BAS managed it with the MH-47
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 12 Jun 2003, 16:00:50
these few ships i would like 2 see in opflashpoint

(http://warships1.com/BRddg089_Exeter_prtaft.jpg)
(http://warships1.com/BRcv09_Illustrious_strbrd.jpg)
(http://warships1.com/BRffg092_Boxer_prtfrt.jpg)
type 42
invincible
and boxer class
i would also like a few civilian and military style ferries similar to the falklands mod ships
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: CBFASI on 12 Jun 2003, 18:50:20
The Type 42, being done....
HMS Invincible, 82 version being done (just awaitign final detailing and textures)
Boxer.. Well I got the older version, the Broadsword under construction.

I am enjoying doing the ships now, so expect further ships even after the Falklands mod is finished.  Plans include several merchants such as tankers, and many theoritical military conversions, maybe even ships from other nations such as those of the MPS squadrons (if you dont know what this means... look it up!!).

Oh yes multi gun ships are possible if you use the method I have applied, which means you can have as many weapons as you want at the expense of a ship that wont move..., oy yes most Battleships hve 4 turrest, with a few exceptions both above and below (HMS Agincourt had 7!! and all on the centre line).
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 12 Jun 2003, 18:59:39
wat it be ok if i had the boxer/boadsword version?
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: CBFASI on 13 Jun 2003, 21:01:32
I am afraid but as its for the  Falklands Mod I wont be releasing it outside of the project
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 14 Jun 2003, 06:18:29
Will the Falklands MOD ships have nice big costal guns on them? Or they just like the LST: just sitting there pretty?

Or will it have missiles which can be controlled by the player as you crash it into the intended target?
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 15 Jun 2003, 11:51:04
It is possible to have multiple gun ports on a ship as demonstrated by the excellent addon: The Russian Pauk Class Fast Attack Ship by Punkrocker

2 bad i dont know how 2 use scripts :(

Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: CBFASI on 15 Jun 2003, 20:16:40
The Falklands Mod has ships with multiple weapons, these include the 4.5inch Mk8, and smaller Light Calibre weapons, we also have working radar and SAM systems.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: DeLiltMon on 15 Jun 2003, 20:28:31
*Drools
Is there going to be a barrel of rum too?  :D
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 15 Jun 2003, 22:33:20
Ooh, another reason to be all excited about the Falklands mod! I've been aboard a Type 42 that saw action in the Falklands War, HMS Plymouth. It's moored in Birkenhead with a submarine, HMS Onyx, as part of the Warship Museum thingy. You can walk around it and Onyx all day for about six quid, I think. Well worth it  :D
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 16 Jun 2003, 04:12:32
u guys (falklands modteam) gonna make a new sub????

well cant wait 2 try those new ships out, at the same time listening 2 the opening hymn 2 the hunt for red october
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: rancor_man67 on 16 Jun 2003, 04:22:26
What was that about the mh-47???

There is a boat someplace were you can walk around inside it and stuff. i think its on the ATWAR site.

Anyone heard of this??

I can't wait to those nice ships come out!!!!!!

Is it possible to have propellers that turn??

Both OFP and battlefield 1942 (and also GTA3 - vice city) don't have that! (it would be funny to chop up someone who was swimming!  ;D )

Rancor.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: CBFASI on 16 Jun 2003, 18:43:57
In Ofp you cant swim...

And HMS Plymouth is indeed in Birnenhead, but is not a Type 42, but a Modified Type 12 (I think).

That 'boat' is the LSD and is available at a number of sites..

The Falklands Mod ships will not be as intricates on internal detail but will have enhanced functionality, in the end they are predominatly scenery with useable features.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 16 Jun 2003, 20:06:38
Well, it had a two in it. I've been on the modern version of that class (not sure which particular ship) on a school trip, but all I can remember are all people telling us that we can't go in there because there's explosives/top secret systems/someone actually doing something, and the vast array of dirty calendars  ;)


EDIT: HMS Plymouth is indeed a modified Type 12 (Rothesay class) frigate, sorry about that. I just looked it up in my Ladybird Bloody Great Book of Killing Machines.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: DeLiltMon on 16 Jun 2003, 23:24:49
u guys (falklands modteam) gonna make a new sub????

well cant wait 2 try those new ships out, at the same time listening 2 the opening hymn 2 the hunt for red october

If I remember rightly the opening music to Hunt for Red October is the Soviet National Anthem not a hymn  :-\
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: asmodeus on 16 Jun 2003, 23:37:58
In Ofp you cant swim...

Ever heard of COC divers?  

http://www.website.thechainofcommand.net/wetsuit.htm

You can swim in OFP, it's just not pretty.   ;)

Asmo

Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Hellcow_2RHh on 18 Jun 2003, 06:27:20
To shed some light on this topic.
if u want to Model the Mother of all Battle ships.
Do it after the USS New Jersey, or the USS Iowa.

They are the Largest American ones ever Build.
They have 9 16-inch Cannons(i think, all this is from memory. i will double Check tho)
And the Armor Plating is so thick on the Hull.
That Durin WW2 a Jap Kamizie Hit the Side of the NewJersey, and only Dented the Armor.
lol.

Kinda funny when u see it in person.
(the dent it left i mean)
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 18 Jun 2003, 08:18:32
Ever heard of COC divers?  

http://www.website.thechainofcommand.net/wetsuit.htm

You can swim in OFP, it's just not pretty.   ;)

Asmo



I know scrap all Russian, but the tune, rythem and style of the music itself is DEFINITELY not the Russian Anthem - unless it was a remix by some DJ......  ???
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 18 Jun 2003, 13:18:03
I know scrap all Russian, but the tune, rythem and style of the music itself is DEFINITELY not the Russian Anthem - unless it was a remix by some DJ......  ???

 ???
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: asmodeus on 18 Jun 2003, 13:28:08
I know scrap all Russian, but the tune, rythem and style of the music itself is DEFINITELY not the Russian Anthem - unless it was a remix by some DJ......  ???

I agree with Kooky, WTF are you talking about poo_poo??    ::)   :P

Asmo
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: calm_terror on 18 Jun 2003, 13:29:13
the US battle ships have 12, 16 inch 3 on each turret and there is 4 turrets, plus like 40 or so 9inch then aboot 30 30mm then you have the tomahawk missiles. oh and there is more smaller weapons too
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 18 Jun 2003, 14:09:54
I agree with Kooky, WTF are you talking about poo_poo??    ::)   :P

Asmo

Excuse my poor English skillz, bad spelling n poor grammar: Cmon what u expect from an immigrant???


What i was sayying is "I dont understand Russian", however I know for sure that the musical score in the Russian Anthem and the musical score in the Hunt For Red October are completly different. Different Tune. But my lack of understanding in Russian makes it impossible for me to distinguish the lyrical verse, so I cant be 100% sure that IT IS NOT the Russian Anthem. Ud need a Russian 2 do that!
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: asmodeus on 18 Jun 2003, 14:57:27
lol poo_poo

Here's why I'm confused... You quoted me as saying this:

Quote
Ever heard of COC divers?  

http://www.website.thechainofcommand.net/wetsuit.htm

You can swim in OFP, it's just not pretty.   ;)

Asmo

And then you started talking about music.. How does music have to do with my quote about being able to swim in OFP??   ;)

Quote
Excuse my poor English skillz, bad spelling n poor grammar: Cmon what u expect from an immigrant??

lol, I understand your English, it's just what you're quoting that doesn't make sense.   ;)

I think you were trying to quote DeLiltMon when he said:

Quote
If I remember rightly the opening music to Hunt for Red October is the Soviet National Anthem not a hymn

So... I was just trying to help make sense of the thread so that those that read this after me understand better than I did at first.   ;)

lol

Anyway, about making the US Battle Ships.. That'd be a scripting, modeling nightmare with 30+ guns of different sizes!   :o

If someone does it I'll check it out for sure, but I'm personally going to wait for OFP2 before I make a battleship or anything with more than 1 firing point.. There's plenty of stuff to make with what's available now, IMO.   ;)  (of course sometimes it's just the challenge itself that's fun for people, so do it if you can!)   8)

Asmo

Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 18 Jun 2003, 17:16:55
Oh Crap Crap

I did quote u by accident!!!
Whoopsy!!!!




Nah i think making a BS wouldnt be THAT hard. The BS need only 4 hard points, since each turret is a battery consisting of 3 cannons. Yes 4 turrets is still quite advanced, but If u have a look at the Pauk Fast Attack Boat (which i keep mentioning), it is VERY much possible as the creator used a seperate viechle addon to be placed on the main ship. Only problem is the turret remained on the ship even after you blew the main ship to hell and back (assuming your bombs didnt damage the turret), however the turret will just sink - but taking pot shots b4 sinking to a range where you can see the gunner, but they cant fire back. But I think it would be possible to make 4 turrets (On Front and Back of Ship, on top of each other), as well as walkable interior made by the Tales of War team: the LSD. I say its concievable, just needs a talented modder.

However we then have to add the Tomohawk launchers as well as the AA gun (the Phalanx plz!). So lets assume thats another 2-3 hard points.

PS
Too all the ship modders, make it realistic. Honestly 6 mavericks, AMRAMs or other heavy Anti Armour missiles SHOULD be able to take out a Battleship. Damn in Sum of All Fears, a single Mig missile (dont know what type) "almost" sunk the Aircraft Carrier!
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 18 Jun 2003, 18:16:29
Personally, I wouldn't download a battleship or a cruiser. Having been on a real frigate, I'd say that they're miles too big for OFP. Heck, a frigate's just shy of too big, really. Besides, I'm not really into ships myself, they don't float my boat  ;)
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: calm_terror on 19 Jun 2003, 03:13:59
yes nightmare of guns the knowing the AI it would pulla 90day wonder and aim and fire 0-0-0 takign out the turrent infront of it.
 and a battleship does not need to move.
what i want is some spy satillites.
or a c2 bird (command and control) with a cam pointed down
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: rancor_man67 on 19 Jun 2003, 06:13:29
Quote
yes nightmare of guns the knowing the AI it would pulla 90day wonder and aim and fire 0-0-0 takign out the turrent infront of it.

Perhaps you could have the turrert raised a little so it can't point down at the one in front of it??

eg:

              [-]
---[-]----/    \----

Key:
--- = deck
[-] = turrert
/   \ = platform/superstructure.

I still can't see how you can manovre such a big ship around the map through without grounding yourself.


Rancor.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: CBFASI on 19 Jun 2003, 09:03:07
the US battle ships have 12, 16 inch 3 on each turret and there is 4 turrets, plus like 40 or so 9inch then aboot 30 30mm then you have the tomahawk missiles. oh and there is more smaller weapons too

US Battleships recently ONLY had 3 Main turrets with 16inch (406mm), eachof 4 guns with a 2 turrets forward and 1 aft (with helo pad even further aft!!!)
They also had 5inch guns (127mm) in twin mounts 5 a side, although this was the original build and a few where removed when upgraded to take modern weaponary.

If you want 4 turrets (on a US Battleship) then you will have to back to ships built around 1910-1920, all of the US Navy post 1922 battleships where 3 turret affairs.

No ship built from the Dreadnought era has been built with 9inch guns, although before this I cant tell, my speciality is post dreadnought, US Navy ship also dont have 30mm, and havn't had for a very very long time.

There are thousands of different types of ship that can be doen, it all depeneds what you like to look at and what you actaully want it to do.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: CBFASI on 19 Jun 2003, 09:08:02
Perhaps you could have the turrert raised a little so it can't point down at the one in front of it??

eg:

              [-]
---[-]----/    \----


Isn't this amusing, this is exactly how they did it in real life, although for a different reason...

Think...

How do you get as many guns firing straight forward??, have no obstruction..
How do you get 2 turrets to fit in a small foredeck? have ones barrels over another!! (this took practice to get right as some of the early ships had 'B' Turrets guns so far over 'A' turret that when 'B' turret fired 'A' turret got damaged!!
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 19 Jun 2003, 11:52:27
The Misouri had 4 turrets, 3 guns on each, 12 inches i think

I only had a small model but i think it had 4 turrets. Could be mistaken and had 3

Of course the turrets are raised!!!!!

Oh yeah forgot about the Heli pad.

Yeah i thought the bodies of water in OpFlash arnt big enugh, but still - neither were BF:1942, and the BShips and Destroyers still work wonders on those maps.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: DeLiltMon on 19 Jun 2003, 13:54:03
The Missouri (spell?) and the rest of the Iowa class had 16" guns
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: calm_terror on 19 Jun 2003, 17:27:28
sorry to burst your bubble but battleshiops NEVER had helo pads. that area was for launching float plans they jsut removed the planes and said oh hey land helo's here. as for the guns yes i was wrong that actual is.. well here i will put the stats for one battleship i have been on the USS Alabama.

Displacement: 35,000 to 44,500 tons.
Length: 680 ft.
Beam: 108 ft. 2 in.
Height of truck light
above keel: 194 ft.
Design Draft: 33 ft. 8 in.
Actual weight when
fully loadedf: 42,500 tons.
Speed: 28 knots
Range: 15,000 Nautical miles at 15 knots
Crew: 127 Officers, 2,205 Enlisted Men
Armament:
9 16"/45 cal. Guns (3 turrets)
20 5"/38 cal. Guns (10 mounts)
48 40mm Guns (12 mounts)
52 20mm Guns
Armor:
Turret faces: 18 inches
Conning tower: 16 inches
Side armor: 12.2 inches, tapering to 1 inch at bottom.
Power Plants:
Horsepower: 130,000 hp
4 engine rooms. each carrying 2 boilers and 2 turbines. Four propellers, 2 five bladed and 2 four bladed, each weighing 18.2 tons.


there have fun triyng to build that in game..
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 19 Jun 2003, 23:13:36
(http://cache.ussmissouri.org/vets/images/missouri.jpg)
(http://www.ninaandevan.com/album/hawaii/ninaussmissouri162_z099.jpg)
this is uss missouri


(http://www.afn.org/~scotsman/photos/uss.iowa.jpg)
this is uss iowa- see the heliad at the back
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 19 Jun 2003, 23:16:23
Bah, they're not that big in real life, it's all camera tricks and photoshopping!  ;D
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 19 Jun 2003, 23:18:28
makes us brits feel very small (lol)  >:(
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Hudson on 19 Jun 2003, 23:58:16
Just seeing the shockwave in the water on the last pic would be enuf to make me surrender and sign a treaty.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: calm_terror on 20 Jun 2003, 10:42:56
helo pad was added much much later..
that was not part of the ship that USE to be a float plane launch.. NOT a Helo pad.. same with the tomahawks.
all that crap was added durign the 60's to 80's
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Vyper on 20 Jun 2003, 13:39:45
Oh dear, well give me a can opener and i could sink that thing no worries!

Vyper
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 20 Jun 2003, 17:22:08
Thing is, some sneaky combat divers could sink that thing using explosives without much fuss. I guess it's not size that matters, it's where you stick it  ;)


(I've been dying to work that one in for a while now  ;D)
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 21 Jun 2003, 04:49:21
Brits use the more pratical Destroyer, over the big bulky Battleships. Their mainly terror weapons of the 20's,30's.

Anyone wanna make the BISMARK (cant spell, sorry), but yeah the ULTIMATE Battleship ever which took a few days of bombings, torpedoing before it finally sank!
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: rancor_man67 on 21 Jun 2003, 09:03:02
Quote
Isn't this amusing, this is exactly how they did it in real life, although for a different reason...


Hehe,

I dont think that they would have trouble with daft AI back in world war 2.

Another thing:

How big can you make things in ofp anyway?? Is it possible to make things as big as the Bismark???

Rancor.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: bigdog632 on 21 Jun 2003, 09:45:07
is the water deep enough to handle a full "scale" replica of it?
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 21 Jun 2003, 10:47:05
Well the TOW team made the LSD which is 7 levels. I think the Battleships will be around that height, but much longer.....


On the topics of Ships still - is there a working LST, which can actually store Tanks and troops and land on the shores? (oh and a working cannon!)
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 21 Jun 2003, 14:07:10
there is a ship made by falklands MOD, nad they have many other ships coming
(http://www.ironfoot.net/~cbfasi/picsforums/BalFer01.jpg)
(http://www.ironfoot.net/~cbfasi/picsforums/AmpPic02.jpg)
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 21 Jun 2003, 15:21:13
Thing is, the Falklands mod make ships in sections usually, like their Hermes Light Carrier. You get the bow, stern and middle sections, and place them down as empty objects in the editor. Obviously, that means they can't move, but since most fighting involving the Royal Navy was done at anchor, it's no big deal. I actually think it's a better idea than making a huge battleship that can move, since they're really slow, and are basically eye-candy.

On the subject of the British using destroyers over battleships, it's partly because they're cheaper, need less crew, are faster, more manueverable and don't need to be moored offshore or in a huge, specially-built dock. Besides, the Royal Navy's one of the best navies in the world, and has a tradition of going up against crazy odds and coming out of it pretty much alright. The advent of the aircraft carrier pretty much sealed the fate of the battleship and battlecruiser, since one plane with torpedoes (or anti-ship missiles nowadays) could sink a massive ship if it got lucky. Also, planes can deliver ordnance much further inland than a gun can, and with greater accuracy, and if a plane can't get in, a cruise missile could do the job just as well.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 21 Jun 2003, 15:24:31
off topic, im joing the fleet air arm in a few years
on -topic......... think wat an exocet missile could do to the iowa class battle ship if they where involved in the falklands
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: calm_terror on 21 Jun 2003, 17:25:16
ok to make a note a plane and missile can be seen on radar and shot down. an in coming 16in shell can not. then only thing you cna do againest a 16in shell is duck and kiss your ass hoping it will not blow the crap out of the bunker.
on a note the birtish can never hit anything with shells. the normandy beach head was where the brits had to land shells but they bascial missed everythingsame in actual sea battle. the brits just suck at aiming a ship. the american battle ships could land a 3 16in shells (1 armour peircings 2 high exsposive) right onto a bunker blowing it apart..
the US had better battleships then most other nations, and more accurate.
but all this is pointless since it would be a nightmare trying toget all the cannons in the right place and get them to fire.
oh on a side note battleships can live through alot of damage.
look at pearl harbor.. only 1 battleship was actual sunk and lost.
all the others where quickly raised and fixed..
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 21 Jun 2003, 20:48:10
To put this straight:

The pre-invasion bombardments at Normandy were all woefully inaccurate. Also, the German bunkers were all but impervious to pretty much any shell that hit them, and were only put out of action when troops cleared them out. There was no "sea battle" on D-Day, save perhaps an E-Boat sneaking through and torpedoing an LST, but these incidents were incredibly rare. And to say "the birtish can never hit anything with shells" is not only untrue but a pretty dumb thing to say. Some battles during the Falklands War were won before they'd begun because the Royal Navy shelled the crap out of the Argentine forces with great accuracy. But enough of this, don't want to get the thread locked.

I disagree on the shell vs. jet thing too, since a jet is more versatile than a 16" shell, more accurate, and can be retasked in mid flight. If you fire a twelve-round salvo at a target, if you find out that it was a red cross building you flattened, you'd be pretty embarrassed about it to say the least. If a strike aircraft's attacking that same target, they could probably tell if it was a red-cross building beforehand, retask and hit the real target. The argument that a plane can be shot down and and a shell can't is a bit duff, since an in-depth attack would have fighter escorts as well as missiles for self-defence, and a preliminary fighter sweep that knocked out air defences with anti-radar missiles (ALARM, HARM etc.) first. Also, planed can go much further than a shell, and can tell you if they hit the target. Shells require the boat to be in range, which might bring them onto mines off the coast of the target, or into range of enemy ground-based aircraft. Besides, if battleships are so great, why have they been retired by most countries?
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 21 Jun 2003, 21:16:35
to put you straight, us Brits arent shit at hitting targets !!! we are just cautious, unlike you americans whom like to kill a few brits on ops (house hold cav. soldier in a scorpian in iraq freedom)
I live not too far away from the windsor barracks, (they would put u straight) and i feel that americans are THE SAME at aiming as the brits, but we dont incounter blue on blue (freindly fire) like the americans
gulf war i - soldiers killed in a scorpian
afganistan- canadians killed by f-16 pilot
iraq freedom (gulafwar ii)- soldier killed as a result of an american airstrike on a scorpian
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Vyper on 22 Jun 2003, 00:55:26
I feel this could degrade into American Vs World arguements....

We're all shite at everything..lets face it, being good at something in a time of war isn't something to be proud of!

Vyper
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Noon416 on 22 Jun 2003, 01:18:36
Get back on topic, guys.

If you need to start a "mine's bigger than yours argument", do so via IM or email, not in the forums.

Otherwise, this thread will be locked and appropriate action taken against those involved.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: CBFASI on 22 Jun 2003, 01:20:31
Quote
on a note the birtish can never hit anything with shells. the normandy beach head was where the brits had to land shells but they bascial missed everythingsame in actual sea battle. the brits just suck at aiming a ship. the american battle ships could land a 3 16in shells (1 armour peircings 2 high exsposive) right onto a bunker blowing it apart..
the US had better battleships then most other nations, and more accurate.

I would advise against making comments like the ones above... Some of us actaully have the facts...

I dont recall anyone other than the British navy actaully shooting at the Scharnhorst and Bismarck....

The Iowa class recently decommsioned woudl very likely have survived an Exocet attack for one very very big reason..  The Exocet does not have an armoured warhead as such, mainly as very very few warships of the time it was desing had any armour, and those that did where in theory friendlies.

I seem to remember it was the British Navy who had the first Dreadnought from which all 'Modern' battleships and battlecruisers stemed..

As another what did the US Navy do in WW1 when the British Navy had its very very very large Battle fleet operting in the North Sea..

The biggest thing to remember is that the Royal Navy dealt with primarily the Atlantic, and the US Navy dealt with the pacific, this meant very different types of Naval battles, and in the end most of those New battleships didn't get used for what there had orginally been designed for.. fighting other ships.  Most became massive gun batteries for landings or large AA platforms, its in this former role the Iowa class managed to survive so long.

US Navy did indeed have better battleships, but it could afford them in WW2 and its shipyards where not under fire....  The Royal Navy was rather involved in tryign to keep its homeland supplied, a problem the USA did not have, in fact it was supplying the UK.

As has been indicated above I am doing quite a number of ships, a big advantage of statics (within the current game engine) is that you can move around on the decks.  The Ferry pictured above has 3 usable lorry decks, including an upper acces ramp, and a working stern ramp.  Fearless has a working dock gate and craft can get in and out.

I would like to do some of the older ships such as the WW2 Monitor HMS Roberts, just a single twin 15inch gun turret, a few secondary guns, smaller than a destroyer..
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 22 Jun 2003, 01:44:06
*applauds CBFASI's ability to spew facts like a machine-gun*

Gentlemen, we should call and end to this little dispute before it turns into a flame-war and gets the topic locked. Anyone wants to criticise the Royal Navy, find some British sailors. Anyone wants to critices the US Navy, find some US sailors. I can guarantee it'd be a lot less civil.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: CBFASI on 22 Jun 2003, 01:47:31
Thank you Kooky..

The facts are a left over from Naval Wargaming

Now very much back on topic....

Who else is doing ships???

It seems lot of talk but few publicly saying they actaully doing some..
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 22 Jun 2003, 19:37:00
im considering to build hms ocean or maybe the aux ship in the background ....... not too sure though
(http://www.operations.mod.uk/veritas/img/veritas/45cdogp/ocean.jpg)
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 23 Jun 2003, 14:36:16
Go Brittish Navy!

Well I suppose the German Navy was the best with all them yummy U Boats, but I still think the Brits rule the sea. ALthough they dont utilise Subs as much as the Russians or Americans, they have the history, prestige and the most honoured Navy in World History.


Anyone making a "East" boat????
COuld be Russian naval power or Chinese naval power

COuld also be an illegal immigrant's boat...... :D
So those facist Itallians can pratice their machine gunning (Yes an Ittalian MP had stated that he would like to use machineguns and other guns to sink BOat ppl's boats so they wont get into Italy.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 23 Jun 2003, 14:56:24
@ Swift

It'd be nice to see an auxiliary ship to go with the Falklands mod HMS Hermes  :)

@ p00_p00:

It's not that we don't operate subs as much, it's that we don't have the same sized navy so therefore don't have as many. We have enough nuclear subs dotted around to take care of ourselves.

Oh, and please keep comments like "So those facist Itallians can pratice their machine gunning" to yourself. It's not big, it's not clever, and it'l get the topic locked. I'm not getting uppity or reading the riot act or anything, I'm just tired of things like that spilling out into flame wars.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Vyper on 23 Jun 2003, 17:41:05
agreed kooky....unfortunatly sarcasm or witty tones don't come accross in typing so it might seem funny when your writing it but somebody could take it seriously...its lame but its what happens so be careful...

Back to boats....that will be all

Vyper
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: CBFASI on 23 Jun 2003, 19:45:19
I have some good information then for you guys....

In the Falklands Mod I intend to do all the Maor surface vessels that where under fire in San Carlos water and Falkland Sound...

This includes the following

MV Elk
MV Baltic Ferry (Picture above...)
MV Nordic Ferry (Near sister to Baltic Ferry)
SS Canberra
MV Norland
MV Europic Ferry
MV St Edmund
RFA Tidespring
RFA Fort Austin
RFA Resource
RFA Stromness
RFA Sir Geraint

This as you may DOES NOT include the Combat vessels of the Royal Navy..

The last 5 are going to be among the hardest (as well as Canberra!!)
Anyone with plans of any of these please contact me as they will help a great deal.. The scale does not matter, even down to 1:5000, I have dimensiosn already, I just need to be able to have soemthing to do the actaul shape from.

Overheads are very much required as these have varying hull forms.

Note in that list includes a tanker and supply vessels, these DO NOT include the newer ships.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 23 Jun 2003, 22:02:59
well galcomt is making USS Tarawa, so ill proberbly try and build some surface ships, mainly consisting of maybe a few protection ships, and a aux ship, to go with it............
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: rancor_man67 on 24 Jun 2003, 14:28:34
Its good to see that so many people are working on ships! Its about time some big ones came out!!

I am a little worried though, will the ships be anything like the houses in ofp?? What stops the water comming up through the bottom levals (as the ground does in many of the houses) and also, is it all kinda 'Blocky'? It isn't possible to have moving doors at the moment is it?? (mabey ofp2) It would be good to have animated objects, like prop shafts turning and stuff.

Has the carrier by BAS or whoever it was, (the one built in sections) been relased yet?? If so where can it be downloaded???

Rancor.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 24 Jun 2003, 16:10:33
u have no idea (have you been locked up for a few months) !! firstly falklands mod have realeased hms hermes. Second, there is a script, which allows doors to open and close............. and when did BAS start making ships?
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: gundam007 on 24 Jun 2003, 19:57:43
It really is a shame that battleships are no longer produced by our navy (the US). Though they do have a weakness, they could be part of a carrier battlegroup. The reason they still have bombardment use is that their shells are unstoppable. Aircraft can be shot down with anti-air, and even missiles could be disabled by stingers (anti-air and missile purposes) or a Phalanx gatling if the enemy has the technology. Shells have no propulsion so, unless they detonate in mid-air, they will never stop until they hit.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 24 Jun 2003, 22:56:50
this is a model that took me a few minutes, i ll improve it, but u get the general idea
[img removed]shipico1.jpg[/img]
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: rancor_man67 on 24 Jun 2003, 23:56:38
Thing is, the Falklands mod make ships in sections usually, like their Hermes Light Carrier. You get the bow, stern and middle sections, and place them down as empty objects in the editor.

Has this been relisesd yet??

I didn't know that there was a script to open doors, i don't know where i have been!!!  ;D

Rancor.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 25 Jun 2003, 00:22:55
Yup, a beta version of HMS Hermes has been released. Nice tub she is too.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: CBFASI on 25 Jun 2003, 01:28:02
I confirm that 'tub' is released.. Search back, I myself cant reermber the post but its in this forum somewhere, search for 'Hermes'

All my larger ships will receive this style of construction, the smaller ships of 100m and less will also likely be done as a standard ship with the ability to move, but with the restrictions that also come with it.

Heres an interesting co-incidence...

The Royal Navy's latest carrier is going to be built in the SAME WAY, ie in independant blocks that they will then join together, partlyl because we dont have a single naval yard big enough to build as a whole from the keel.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: rancor_man67 on 25 Jun 2003, 01:33:59
You would think that that would be a little weak then??? One explosion and it would split in 3!!


rancor.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: p00_p00 on 25 Jun 2003, 08:56:53
1) Well sorry for my "sarcasm", but its true fact about the Ittalians. Im sorry if Itallians in general thought I was calling them facist, but my comment was against the specific MP who made the actual comment.

2) What do u mean that Shells have no propulsion???
They need to fly, and so dont they get propelled by a big cannon?
Besides that - they are very inaccurate, need to be fairly close compared to missiles and are mainly used to take out stationary units. Most armoured units will be on the move, and Trench warfare hasnt really been used since WWII.......
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: Mr_Shady on 25 Jun 2003, 22:51:38
Well mate, since POLWAR got removed, OFPEC is no place for politics. I'm no lover of the Italians (then again I don't like anybody  ;)), but still, there's a time and a place, and this isn't it.

On the shells thing, I think we can safely say that shells, missiles and planes are all good at turning living, breathing people into dead people pretty quickly.
Title: Re:Cruisers n Big ol Battleships
Post by: swift88 on 28 Jun 2003, 22:25:44
this is an update on my cargo ship