OFPEC Forum
Missions Depot => ArmA - Multiplayer Beta Testing => Topic started by: Ironman on 28 Mar 2008, 07:02:09
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Ok, so some of you might have tested a early version of this a while ago. Now, it is much better.
Mission: ACS Hostage Rescue
Version needed: ArmA 1.08 and up
Type: MP Coop
Teamswitch : No
Island: Sara
Addons: EditorUpdate 1.02, Civilians Addon (link in ReadMe)
Mission by: |ACS| Ironman
Version: Beta 3
Known bug(s): **Edit: NO KNOWN BUGS** (Make sure you have this version) October 25, 2008
A little about the mission:
I tried to make this mission as close to real life as possible. My, cousin who was in the Army Rangers told me about how they would dress up like civilians and kid nap high profile personel. This mission is similar to a mission he was on.
I have redefined stealth for all you SF guys out there. You can stand right in front of the enemy and they wont shoot you. Your cover story wont last forever though so grab your load outs in the pick up trucks and put a smile on your face.
This mission is not for the weak minded.
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In all honesty, I do not feel bad, at all bumping this up.
I posted this nearly a month ago and have had no feedback. Was wondering if someone forgot to post a review for it.... I can see it has been DL.
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Hi Ironman.
Just played the mission and I think it has a really good potential. I like that it's based on a real event and also the checkpoint idea. Hostage rescue is also great intense fun. The briefing was good in my opinion. However, I did find a lot of bugs in it, that must be fixed. I decrypted it and looked in the editor to see what was wrong. This is how I played the mission:
1. I ignored the checkpoint, since I didn't see a point in risking detection and moved directly towards the hostages. The result was that I was never setcaptive false and I took out every enemy by myself. I would suggest that you force the player to move through the checkpoint by punishing him - setcaptive false if not entering through checkpoint, groups moving towards him, all hell breaking loose. You can also make a random thing where you sometimes don't get pass the checkpoint without trouble, to add tension.
2. When I got to the barn which was well setup, like rest of the camp, the hostages were already killed, but I didn't get a mission failed message.
3. I then went towards the checkpoint and the checkpoint routine started backwards, because of my way in. Maybe add a variable in the checkpoint triggers that can be deactivated, so that doesn't happen.
Further Suggestions:
Add an overview pic.
Try to make the camera work smoother - less superquick panning.
Maybe have the team armed from the start, but make them setcaptive false if not in car going through the checkpoint.
Instead of that civilian addon you can also just group normal civilians with a BLUFOR leader that is deleted at the beginning. You can also change side of the civilians by editing the mission.sqm text.
Like I said. I really like the setup and it has lots of potential, but it still needs more work. ;)
Cheers
Laggy
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Thanks for your input. If you take too long getting to hostages, they are shot. Also, if you dont go through the checkpoint you wont complete the objective.
Mission ends when your in chopper heading out. This mission is meant for the option of ending map whether objectives are completed or not.
I have the objectives in a order for a reason. If people wish not to follow it, the mission will be 0 fun. I will make very few changes because no one else seems to care to much about it.
BlueFor as leader was giving me problems back in 1.08 (<- when I first started making the mission). I am also making other maps that include the civilian pack. So, it's not like I am throwing it in only one mission.
Once again, thanks. Did others play with you? If so, what did they think?
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'Please Review' means you are asking the Missions Depot staff to review your mission, without waiting for any beta testing to be done.
If this takes a while then this in normal, all reviewers might already be busy with a review or two.
If on the other hand you want it to be beta tested then do not have 'Please Review' in the title.
Planck
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Thanks for informing me. I already know this though.
Look at missions that have just been released, like April 10th and they already have like 4 or 5 reviews. So, while it may be true they are doing others, they have skipped over mine.
Thanks again.
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~You misunderstand, a mission only receives one review.
This review is performed by a member of the MD staff, on the other hand a mission can have hundreds of beta test reports in the mission topic, these are performed by any member at OFPEC, including MD staff.
A review is normally only done once the author feels his mission is mostly bug free and ready for the masses. :yes:
Planck
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Yes, then I hope someone can review it soon.
The punishment of not following the objectives is no fun. The reason you do not fail the objective imediately is because it forces you to find the hostages, which is REAL. That trigger is activated upon extraction.
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The Recluse was released April 05, 2008
It's review was done on May 08, 2008
I released this in March, I see people have downloaded, and forgot about it. Is there something else I must do to get this mission reviewed quicker?
I mean, I am not a well known mission maker, but I still put a lot of work behind these missions. I have offered input with another mission. I believe it was the "RTY pilot rescue" or something along that title.
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Sorry but all you need to do is wait and bumb this from time to time, IMO staff is having quite lot of missions under review at the moment
Be patient my young padawan
-Wink0
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It is just frustrating for me because...
Well, I know that the well known mission makers get there reviews done quickly. I understand why that is, I just don't like it I guess hahaha...
Just gets frustrating, I try to help people out on these forums when I can and hope the same response can come my way. So, I am not pissed off, just a lil bit upset.
I will wait again, if nothing happens in a month, I will bump it back up since I have permission.
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Ironman,
I understand that you're a frustrated and upset. However, please keep in mind that reviewing MP missions is more of a problem than reviewing SP missions or campaigns (hence why recluse got reviewed sooner).
We've tried all kinds of solutions, public mission testing, in-house staff testing, clan testing a lot to try and solve it. All worked for a while, but not long enough. Shark attack is trying to get something off.
One of my solutions is to use my LAN at home to test MP missions with friends. I would like to do so (arma set up at all computers), but I lack the time due to school and work. In one month, I hope to have reviewed your mission. Plan to review A LOT of MP missions as soon as me and my friends have some time (especially me because I'm the one with a lack of time).
Sorry, hopefully we can review it soon!
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bump
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bump
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Tested the latest version and encountered more bugs. Review on hold untill next update.
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From: Ironman
The only reason the evac bird would come in is if someone hit the radio command for it. There is no other reason why it would be coming in.
Also, the weapon selection is fine. There are 2 snipers, that you are to use to your full advantage. Also, I think two trucks have one M16 Acog in it. The mission is meant to be challenging. I did not equip all the ai soldiers with NV.
You have limited recon because this is a recent development (less than 24hrs). QRF normally doesn't have a ton of recon. You are lucky I gave you a hint as to where the hostages are lol....
The hostages did join your group right?
Yea, AI are stupid in buildings... I am not sure how to fix this problem, any ideas?
Another thing, if the sniper team (or evac chopper lol) moves into the AO before the spec ops team gets through the checkpoint, their cover is blown and they will be shot.
This is the thing, I could make a deterent (2 T72's gaurding the other direction) , but then the evac chopper will land to close to them and will be gunned down. It is set up now so you could completely avoid the patrolling T72 and BMP... then you only have to deal with one BMP.
The advantage of going in "undercover" as a civilian is that you might not have to kill anything/anyone. This, in turn, increases your survivability. Spec Ops units' hope for the best but plan for the worst. I could put that in the story line if you want me to, but, there will always be 10 yr olds that don't like that in a game lol....
PS If the leader of the spec ops team had access to a Satellite would that be better?
You should eliminate the possibilty of the chopper coming by making it only active after the hostages are secured.
Okay, I must disagree with your opinion of the snipers. Their range is limited to the front of the compound and as their ammo is also limited, you waste more time and resources trying to zero your moving targets than eliminating them. 2 acogs for the group does nothing to help level the combat ground in open pastures and although the HK' are welcome, they are not very useful in the fields.
Unfortunately, I don't feel very lucky after considering the situation. And by you saying that, causes me to feel as though you could care less if people enjoy this mission. If the local allies know anything about their own area, surely they would have some intel regarding the target area that would be of use to the allies. Also, if my department knows so little about the area, why would they send highly trained professionals into an area halfway prepared? Thats all I was trying to convey to you. I would not enter an unknown area without being "Prepared for the worst".
No the Hostages never joined our group but we never actually got to that point without going the back way the last time. If you think there is potential that the mission will not end because of AI movement, you should play it safe and relocate them to the open or a building that is AI friendly rather than not.
As far as the insertions team cover being blown? If we were dressed as civillians in civillians trucks why would the armor engage us immediately after passing through their checkpoint? Why would we even take that chance and risk our lives if we knew we were walking into a deathtrap?
I think what hinders the operation is the lack of decent firepower when engaging such a force through the pastures just to get to the hostages. If we had saws or grenade launchers we may have a better chance of cutting through the lines quick enough to secure the hostages before they are killed.
In my personal opinion, you have failed to sell the reason why we must rescue the hostages dressed in flip flops and bananna shirts without being equipped as a normal SF team.
Sorry, I hope my opinions do not discourage or offend you.
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I believe my mission are enjoyable to people that like a challenge. I will try using Mando's air support scripts so you can call a Evac when/where ever you want to. When I made this missions this script wasn't out yet, so I could not implement it. In real life the evac chopper can be called in at any point. Not just when an objective is complete.
Also, once the sf cover is blown the sniper team can move closer to assist even more.
I just tested this:
There are 2 M16 Acog's in each truck. A total of 3 trucks gives you 6 M16 Acogs.... that is more than enough.
Tank Patrol:
The tank patrol is meant to get the players out of the trucks quickly. The players are able to hide and let the tanks roll right by them... No where in my mission objectives does it say "engage these tanks", it is up to the players. There are at least 2 M136 launchers with 4 AT rounds. Once again, more than enough to take care of armor threats.
I am still waiting a response about the satellite option for Team leader.....
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Two real problems were indeed the helicopter arriving too soon and the hostages not joining our squad or being released. That is probably not due to AI problems as they were never in our squad, something that has to be taken care of by triggers and hopefully not join&lead waypoints ([hostage1,hostage2] join group SFguy1;).
The helicopter problem was pretty serious and while one of our six players might have triggered the radio, having a radio command 'echo' isn't too descriptive (use the text box and let it be: Evac). Or, go for mando air support.
Finally, about the difficulty of this mission. I am just wondering, but can you complete it in multiplayer? As for the checkpoint, the tanks are indeed a good way to scare us out of using the trucks any further, but the problem is that those tanks engage us before we even notice them. That is the 500+ meter AI engaging us problem which is really the ArmA engine's problem but you have to find a solution for that. Or at least warn us for tanks and their patrol routes.
As for weapons, they are alright, no problem with the AT launcher there is in my opinion plenty of rockets etc. Let me explain our problem with the mission, or at least how I feel about it. At the beginning you have a choice, silenced weapons for reduced firepower but increased stealth, or increased range and firepower but lack of stealthy subsonic sounds. Most will take SD weapons as you go in as civilian through a checkpoint hoping that you can get close, make some stealthy kills and then either trade for AK74s or take a stealthy route out towards the helicopter. That whole concept is full of holes and therefore not done, one stealth goes only as far as the checkpoint, two there is no stealth route towards the evac spot (which is in range of the enemy base) and finally there are too many guys around in squads to take it stealthy.
Going for no stealth, long range power you have more of a chance especially if you ambush the armoured convoy properly (something we didn't do due to a miscommunication). However, after that there are still three or four squads around the base of the hostages which are hard to take down without taking any let alone multiple casualties. Almost impossible in my opinion. Bottom line, two ways of tackling the objective as far as I could see, neither is really effective.
What is probably the most effective method? Go to the checkpoint in full weaponry, kill everyone there, destroy the tanks and advance towards the farm with the PKs and anything have you need. What would make this a valuable way of going through the mission: an UAZ MG.
Please let me know what you think about it?
Oh, the satellite option that could be valuable but we'd need more than five minutes preparation time until you are set to CAPTIVE false. As planning such a mission with satellite is done best ingame (not best but only done - requires ingame elements).
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I played this mission with Mario and other SEALZ yesterday. The chopper NEVER flew in. There are 5 AT round.
We made it all the way in the compound without beeing engaged. This mission is pretty simple when you plan it right. The tanks do not engage you 500m out. I just played it, they were at the cross roads (compound dirt road and main rd) about 300m from us while we were still driving in trucks. We were not even spotted.
The player chooses whether or not to engage the tanks really.
It seems like you guys want me to simplify my mission and there are no true bugs. Because my mission is tough you will give me a low score.
If your wondering, "is he a little upset"... Yes, I am. "Give us more weapons...."/"Give us more intel."/"You can't be stealthy."
1)I hand picked how many of each weapons you would recieve.
2) The sniper team is your intel, they can easily see the tanks rolling at you from there position.
3) I made it all the way to the base without firing a single shot (w/3 other people too)
My Mission Plan (8 players):
-Get out of boats, head to trucks, grab Silenced weaps and AT's (< just incase)
-Head to checkpoint
-Snipers scout the road to find the checkpoint and get visual of your trucks as they appear....
-Snipers then informs you of tanks coming down the road, by this point you should be moving past checkpoint.
-Pull the truck over (out of sight line from checkpoint) find cover. Let the tanks roll by.
-On the western side of compound there is a squad patrolling N-S when squad turns there back to you you haul ass to compoud walls with 3 guys. Then you get in the back entrance. The other 3 guys take care of enemy base (dont engage until the other team does).
-The timer doesn't start until the enemy spot you as BlueFor..... once this happens you will probably take shots and a alarm will go off, when this happens.... 5min before execution.
-Sniper team can assist however they want... this includes moving in.
I will not go on any further.... Players will have to figure it out from there.... I am upset I had to give this much up.
Another thing... why do you question my objectives? If any other mission maker says Take a Town.... you do it... no questions asked.... Here you do not want to go through a checkpoint.... one of the easiest objectives EVER. No killing involved...
Are you guys just frustrated at this mission because it makes the players think too hard?
I will put Mando's script in and the satellite feed, but beyond that, everything else is staying just the same.
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EDIT*
Just so you guys know I do appreciate that you tested and submitted things that you think I should change. This is much better than months of nothingness.... So thank you very very much :good: :clap:... I just do not agree with your list of changes :dunno:. As you can see
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Just a little note:
Have you considered that your battle plan on how the mission is planned beforehand MIGHT not be the exact way every player will tackle the mission.
Everyone is different and will go about the task in their own way depending on how they see it can best be done.
A mission author will take all these things into account hopefully. :)
Planck
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The satellite things isn't as important as these two:
- Rename the call for extraction or make it a proper and easy to read line in the briefing, like: radio ECHO for extraction. Better: do both.
- Ensure that the hostages join us / can be freed. We had that bug twice.
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Planc that is not the issue.... They keep telling me it is basically unbeatable....
I don't expect the players to do it my way... that is why I gave them m16 ACOG's and AT rounds....
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No Revive, No JIP?
JIP will work if you leave AI on.... (suggest you dont).... No JIP because people tend to go rambo when no team mates are around them. Also, this enforces planning before the mission starts and sticking to that planning.
No Revive because I want the players to respect the life that is given to them.
Thought these might be questions people might ask....
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Hey guy,
I PM'ed you before my attention was directed to this thread. First of all, I apologize if I or anyone here has discouraged you in the least. It is not our intention to blast our members or any contributors for that matter with negative comments about their hard work and invested time in such laborious projects but I hope you can take a moment to reflect on what we are attempting to express to you regarding Multiplayer missions. As I mentioned in the PM, if you wish to control the players approach to your mission objectives while narrowing the playing lanes, perhaps Single player would be more suitable as it is much easier to accomplish and more accepted in that field. Mulitplayer missions must be designed with the mind set that the objectives can and will be conquered from all directions regardless of the situation and it must be replayable to even be considered average. I only mentioned changing the story around to help the players imagination thus enhancing immersion and while your mission is far from being difficult, it must be completable, and that has yet to be done with the minor bugs that we have encountered. The weapon situation was mentioned not because we can't complete your mission with what you have given us, but rather we would like the option to complete it however we feel brave enough to do it. So, please correct the chopper and hostage concerns so we can at the least complete it, and we will be more than happy to give it another go. Thank you for hanging in there with us partner, hope to see an update soon.
kind regards
SBG
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Ironman, any fixes coming up for this one?
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Cheetah:
Yea, I have just been busy with life recently. Should be done by the end of this month.
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Ironman, I noticed that you have been pretty busy making new missions. If you do not intend on fixing this one, could you remove the (Please Review) from the title? Thank you.
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Saved that is not the case. Those missions were released a while ago. Check the first message dates on em. I am still trying to fix this one a little more.
I am adding patrols on the hills and trying to freakin figure out how this dam Evac chopper thing works (implementing Mando's support scripts). I am sorry it has taken me longer than I wanted.
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Ok new version out. Make sure you know how to call the evac bird in. You only get two chances at it. Instructions in notes.
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Someone else needs to take this one. I can't get it done and it needs to get done.
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bumperooony