OFPEC Forum
Editors Depot - Mission Editing and Scripting => OFP - Editing/Scripting General => Topic started by: dmakatra on 25 Apr 2004, 21:25:09
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Hi! Each day OFP struggles to get even closer to the horrors of war thanks to our excellent scripters. So I have an idea.
When you look at statistics of battles and wars, accidents and other stuff there is almost allways more injured people than dead. This is one of the most awful things in real world but ironicly it would bring much to OFP. Imagine this:
You stand at the front line. Scouts report that an enemy tank platoon is heading your way. People are getting entrenched all around you. Suddenly, someone yells incoming and hell opens up above you. You half throw yourself, half walk into a house to take cover form the shelling. Once it has stopped You look out. Soldiers are lying all over the place screaming and twisting in pain. The field medics do whatever they can do while the tanks roll in and a second hell opens up.
Just a small thing like being badly enough shot (like in the leg) will make you lose your fighting and movement capability until a medic patches you up.
Summary: Randomly dead soldiers (say, half of them) generates and starts twisting and screaming untill they either die or gets patched up by a medic. If they get patched up they of course shouldn't be setdamage back to 0 and grab their gun again, no, but combined with a medevac script it could get very impressive. Also, badly injured soldiers will twist and scream in pain untill a medic gets them back on their feet, together with a bleed script of course so you can't stay there all day.
Not only does this add realism and that the player watch himself from getting injured, it also makes the medic role much more interesting and important as it should be.
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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I have seriously wanted something like this for a long time. I tried using snypers "make units stronger" script to generate more injuries but when the AI's damage hit 0 it would teleport back up again. Perhaps it is a good base script to start from though.
I find the fact that OFP has virtually no cover and highly accurate weapons, you end up with 1 minute firefights which result in unrealistic death counts.
The atmosphere would be greatly improved with what you are suggesting.
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Hmm.. This would be pretty cool..
I'm sure you can get where someone has been hit.. The editor said handhit (heheh, either that or handshit... ::):P) when I was typing in a command.. Not sure if it is a real working command though..
THen,
if (handhit == 1) {playmove "handshot"}
That anim would be someone holding there hand, and the say command to do shouting/screaming (maybe a randomness for them to be quiet..?)
Then the same with leg hit.. Rolling around screaming
And with if dammage = 0, set dammage them back a bit, so they're not fine again.. To detect if the medic has been
Then call in the evac script :)
There is a script in the beta, titled somthing like "Less hits, more wounded, more real?", that when you fired in full auto, your shots started to go everywhere.. Really made fire firhgts more interesting/long..
Maybe this could be incorperated?
I know a few people who are good with OFPAnim, I'll see if I can get them to have a go at a few anims :)
- Ben
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Sounds really good. Dudes in OFP get injured and can crawl around but like Onix mentioned "no cover and highly accurate weapons make for 1 minute fire fights" the healing in current OFP works for the gameplay out there now. I would really like to see a good medevac + medic + injured script. I'd like to see myself rolling around on the ground in third person. :D
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Also another pet hate of mine is that a lot of the addons (such as BAS and Shueys Marines) make the soldiers fire single shots from their guns. All the BAS tango machine gunners fire in single shot mode!
While I can understand say, U.S. Marines using their weapons in single shot mode, machine gunners (such as the old Delta & Rangers SAW Gunners) should NOT.
This effectively ups the accuracy of such weapons, negating any form of surpression and fire dispersion scripting opportunities.
I could effectively use the Rangers SAW as a sniper rifle (especially with the scope on it).
Editing the config file is also fruitless, because the first shots are always so accurate. Something really needs to be done about the recoil in OFP to make it more realistic. Using the BAS SAW the recoil is about 1mm on the scope! This is more something that addon makers need to be aware of I think, rather than the topic at hand. I find the recoils on most of the default BIS weapons OK (altho still too accurate for my tastes, especially due to the low cover of OFP, no breathing effects, etc).
I think the best way to approach this issue (more wounded) is to start from synper's "Make Units Tougher" script, and add in the appropriate animations etc.. I've noticed in the BAS Delta's when you get hit you roll over and heal yourself so this is certainly possible (minus the healing of course)
Also I think someone needs to create a "battle sound" script where it adds more soldiers communication (voices and all that). There was an improved AI script that did this, but the voices tended to be a bit wacky sometimes and quite loud too. More wounded noises are definately needed.
At the end of the day, we need more engaging firefights in OFP, where you get bullets whizzing around your head. It's either complete kill or complete miss, which ruins the atmosphere a bit. More wounded are not only realistic, but adds to the atmosphere.
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RE: DaveDash's remarks about gunners firing single shot
We have a totally different experience going on here! I play almost exclusively with Earl&Suchey's Marines and the BAS addons, and my biggest complaint has been the LACK of fire discipline of the gunners.
How are you seeing single shots for SAW gunners? On my system, these barrels would be overheated and warped at the rate the AI fires them...repeated streams of ten-second cyclic firing...tracers trails that can be seen from the moon!
Put a Marine Assault Pack or BAS SAW gunner in front of an enemy TRUCK and watch what happens...they hate trucks for some reason. :)
Seriously, you really are getting single shot bursts from the AI? How very odd that mine are the opposite?!
RE: The subject
I really don't WANT to see guys in agony in a computer game...kinda takes the *fun* out of it to see your buddies in their death throes. I think the current system is fine, but the medic should be removed. Either you are wounded but still functional, or you are out of the game for a while...no magic medic is going to put you back into the fight after five seconds of "treatment". I don't consider the "dead" guys dead, just out of action due to injuries.
Now, if you want to make a sub-game out of OFP, focusing on saving lives as a medic in combat, that would be very cool! Your primary job would be instant triage and stabilization while everyone else is fighting...very unnerving and frustrating to put it mildly. Deciding who gets the limited supplies you have on hand, who can be saved and who is beyond hope (but still alive RIGHT NOW), waiting for the whoopwhoopwhoop of the medivac chopper...could be a very challenging game.
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RE: The accuracy - are you all using BAS HD magazines? I find they add a lot to the game by dragging out the fights.
Earl and Suchey's Marines are now fully compatible with JAM, including HD magazines (both USMC and Russians). For addons that aren't JAM HD compatible, I now replace the units' default weapons with Marine Assault Pack Russian JAM HD weapons in the editor, and it makes for very engaging fights.
It certainly makes the machine guns more suppresive (at least to human players). :)
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RE: DaveDash's remarks about gunners firing single shot
We have a totally different experience going on here! I play almost exclusively with Earl&Suchey's Marines and the BAS addons, and my biggest complaint has been the LACK of fire discipline of the gunners.
How are you seeing single shots for SAW gunners? On my system, these barrels would be overheated and warped at the rate the AI fires them...repeated streams of ten-second cyclic firing...tracers trails that can be seen from the moon!
Put a Marine Assault Pack or BAS SAW gunner in front of an enemy TRUCK and watch what happens...they hate trucks for some reason. :)
Seriously, you really are getting single shot bursts from the AI? How very odd that mine are the opposite?!
RE: The subject
I really don't WANT to see guys in agony in a computer game...kinda takes the *fun* out of it to see your buddies in their death throes. I think the current system is fine, but the medic should be removed. Either you are wounded but still functional, or you are out of the game for a while...no magic medic is going to put you back into the fight after five seconds of "treatment". I don't consider the "dead" guys dead, just out of action due to injuries.
Now, if you want to make a sub-game out of OFP, focusing on saving lives as a medic in combat, that would be very cool! Your primary job would be instant triage and stabilization while everyone else is fighting...very unnerving and frustrating to put it mildly. Deciding who gets the limited supplies you have on hand, who can be saved and who is beyond hope (but still alive RIGHT NOW), waiting for the whoopwhoopwhoop of the medivac chopper...could be a very challenging game.
I actually posted this in the BAS thread as it's more appropriate there, but I will put a brief reply here.
The new BAS Delta Force/Rangers pack I have noticed the saw gunners fire fully automatic now, but the previous ones they certainly did not. Also, the Tango's definately fire single shot bursts. All my fire fights not only sounded ridiculous (like a whole heap of pop guns going off), and really killed the atmosphere (pop pop pop pop pop pop pop)
As for using HD JAM2 yes, they seem to work for Tango's and normal Russians, but the Delta/Rangers still seem waaaaaaaaay to accurate (especially over long distances). I havn't tried the Marines with JAM2 yet I don't think so I will have to give them a go.
Part of the problem isn't the accuracy, but the shere lack of cover. Also the AI running about like a bunch of headless chickens really makes them easy targets.
As for the topic, more wounded isn't nice, but it really adds to the atmosphere of the game. One of the big turn offs for me in America's Army(which I think has a very good atmosphere, the combat is great) is the fact it feels so damn unrealistic when you shoot someone. They fall over like some comedy war movie. It's a bit disconcerting that they use it as a recruiting tool, but you can see why they don't want gory deaths in it obviously. :)
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Kammak: As I said in the first post I see this very ironicly that one of the most awful things in war can do so much for a game. I don't look at this as a "We make a Postal 2 mod, duh, duh, funny, me so lame" but as a great atmosphere tool. I think most people playing OFP want the missions to be as realistic as possible, and if we can get the atmosphere from say, Call of Duty Single Player, into OFP we would had an almost perfect game with an atmosphere and realism that no one ever seen before. :)
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Yeah
I'd would add a lot to a mission
Sorta your best friend has just been hit, hes lying next to you and your holding back the enemy til a medic can patch him up a bit, and get him out
Better than him go prone beside you and fire perfectly ::)
Besides, I am guessing one of the main reasons (Aside from the mods and addons etc) you all paly OFP so much is the realism.. This would remove the biggest, uh "not real-est" bit...
If ya see
This aint gonna turn OFP into Postal 2.. One reason, Postal is rubbish, OFP isn't :P
Besides, postal 2 is mindless violence.. OFP atleast has a reason..
Anyway, I've got someone to start work on a first hurt anim :)
- Ben
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Off Topic since everyone else is: The AI handling machine guns and add on machine guns is ghastly. The way the engine is coded, AI aim to kill. Not support or for cover fire. Due to the lack of cover fire AI don't take cover very well. Machine gunners are mainly support and cover guys so the riflemen can get close and pop guys off. I'd agree weapons are way to accurate and should be reduced to a point near the Kozsclice's accuracy to make it more real.
On topic cause I wanna be: I'm not sure the medic thing will work out great for one reason. Playability suffers for some. Hell its cool to get shot then look around the corner again to shoot the guy, go over to the medic and poof your healed ready to go kill some more. Some ppl will like it and others loathe it. Its a good aspect for realism.
I hope this is addressed in OFP 2 I mean they could stand to outdue themselves in injury/ medics.
phew.... :P
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You are still healed, it's just that the medic has to come to you when you are crying for help. Just take a little while more but a more seriousness in getting wounded and that medics need to be brave ;) . Maybe add some script that would make the medic a less important target for the AI. I mean, if the AI can see 3 guys where 1 is a medic the script should do so that he shoots the other 2 loons first. People won't notice any gameplay difference I think but if you're wounded and all your medics were killed direclty it's not that fun. ;)
Of course, this script shouldn't be added when the player is medic as it would make him too good. :D
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Hmmm interesting. That sounds good. The only problem is that if the medic is shooting at them, does the medic still get a back seat in targeting by the enemy who is targeting say a farther away allied dude?
In a way that's like a helicopter going after farther away tanks while a truck with a stinger missile(imaginary i know) fires at it. That's another way to put it.
So maybe you could set values for how long your healthcare takes you.
10% = regular healing time
20% = +5 secs
30% = +10 secs
40% = +15 secs
50% = +20 secs
60% = +30secs
75% = +40secs
80%= +45secs
95% & up = +50 secs
Maybe something to that degree...
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Good job i caught this thread.
Nightstalker Mod are making what we are calling Advanced wounding system. We have a scripter and 2 animators working on it, it will have a complete set of custom anims, sounds and FX.
It is basically what The Real Armstrong wants. Its for the mod but we will make it open source. However, you would have to include certain things into unit addons (Hidden selections, ect) to make it work properly.
Ermm i dont want to ruin the suprise, but there will be alot of wound types, depending on the region of the body that has been hit and how bad it has been hit, combined with some randomised chance (i know that sounds half arsed, but trust me it makes sense.....only describing it in a way that takes sense usually takes me 45 minutes and i have 5), each wound type with its own effect and anim, bleed out rate, ect. EG, someone gets hit in the throat, they roll around in agony with thier hands at thier neck, blood spurting and making a hissing gurgling sound. And apparently, according to the Ex Army medic whos advising us, there is nothing you can do for someone like that but hold their hand.
Then there will be the custom medic system to compliment this. Medics will no longer miraculously heal units. You will have to select the correct procedure, get the wrong one and the patient suffers, get the right one and it may still fail, depending on the risk of the procedure. If it suceeds, the injured party will still not be back on their feet again. Instead, thier condition will deteriate until medevac'd, stabilise, or improve slowly, depending how serious the wound is.....The medic treatments will also have thier own anims.
Ermm ive missed a hell of a lot out, but, i believe this is the answer to your prayer. Weve had the concept in mind for about 4 months, but we are finally getting moving.....we have 2 animators working flat out, but *hint hint* more would help us speed up the process. The script itself wont take too long to complete, but its the fine tuning of it that will be the issue, getting the balance perfect.
Anyway, although its for the mod, it will be open source, but as i say, addons will need to be enabled for use with it......
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Those this also work on dead ppl or just injured? 'Cause in OFP, you die with 2 shots in your leg. Sure, I wouldn't been able to keep fighting but die as in OFP die-directly die?
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Im not sure what you mean exactly, but if you get shot enough to normally die, you will die anyway.
If you get shot not enough to die, you will instead take a wound. If your wounded, it goes into the script. The script can also handle more than one wound. ::)
I think that covers every possibility for what you mean, if not just get on my ass. ;D
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Hi,
I'm writing the script now for nightstalker and i must admit i had noticed the damage done to certain areas can be extremely unrelated to the hit scored (a shot to the foot managed to score me a kill when i was testing the damage done by wounds from an M16) the medical animations and effects will partially make up for this as you will no longer be just shot and die miraculously but instead suffer for example an arterial wound which will be plainly visible to everyone. This will explain why you died if not comfort you to the fact you were shot.
however if I do notice pproblems in the balance the simple answer is to reduce the damage of guns used for example in the nightstalker mod so that everyone is doing less damage and allow the woundscripts to make up for it
Ron
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OK, cool.
Why are you reading this BTW, get the bloody script done! :D
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Hehehehe :P
What about, if the person is dead, a random chance that they will be setdammage back to 0.9?
(Does this work on dead units? I can't remeber)
- Ben
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Not it doesn't but as I'm not a scripter I wouldn't be able to say for sure. But as far as I know it's not designed to heal you only to detect where you've been hit and how badly, it's all pretty simple, you're not going live if you get hit by a .50 cal the dammage is to high, but let's say you take a bullet in your guts, then the wound would be selected by the dammage you've taken, you may lay with your guts on the ground or you may just bleed alot.
Simple, and it is going a bloody mess with the help of very very violent animations :)
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If I understood Ron correctly the damage of all guns are reduced so people die when they die but people get more serious injuries, something that is even better than just amazingly regenerate a dead guy. This would also work a lot better since for example a dead regenerate script would randomly regenerate a guy blown up by a LGB but the Nightstalker Mod Script would not. If you ask me this script would be one of the best things that has happend to OFP if all Ron and Pathy is true and actually works. It could class itself with SEB Nam Pack 2, CoC Arty and all that great stuff even though it's jsut a script.
Hail Nightstalker Mod!
:beat: *Gets Nightstalked* :beat:
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Yup, and soon as i have no other imput on the script, i am going to claim its my brainchild ;D....aww cmon guys you gotta give me some reason to be in the credits :'( ....lol (and you did laugh at me and say i was too ambitious with it.....)
You understand correctly though. This script should not alter the numbers of dead people from how many would normally die in a situation. What i mean is, if your in a situation where half your squad would normally end up incapacitated (in OFP, thats dead), it will still be like that. What will change is the nature of that. OFP basically represents both deaths and critical wounds with just death. So number of initial deaths will be decreased, but the script should make the number of wounded (who can be medically treated, but will still likely be out of the action.....) match that.
The tricky bit will be balancing that to get it working effectively. When its in a testable stage (think, 2 weeks at max, tho Mr McAsskick is away for the weekend.), we will be adressing things like that. If it turns out that everyone ends up dying before having a chance to wound, weapon strengths will just have to be turned down until we reach a stage where theres a nice balance between units being shot dead and being wounded.
We are also doing some nice stuff with hidden selections so that, for example, when a medic treats a unit it will appear as if his hands get covered in blood ;D
*cough* more animators *cough* (those will ultimately be the hold up)
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Yup, and soon as i have no other imput on the script, i am going to claim its my brainchild ;D....aww cmon guys you gotta give me some reason to be in the credits :'( ....lol (and you did laugh at me and say i was too ambitious with it.....)
You understand correctly though. This script should not alter the numbers of dead people from how many would normally die in a situation. What i mean is, if your in a situation where half your squad would normally end up incapacitated (in OFP, thats dead), it will still be like that. What will change is the nature of that. OFP basically represents both deaths and critical wounds with just death. So number of initial deaths will be decreased, but the script should make the number of wounded (who can be medically treated, but will still likely be out of the action.....) match that.
The tricky bit will be balancing that to get it working effectively. When its in a testable stage (think, 2 weeks at max, tho Mr McAsskick is away for the weekend.), we will be adressing things like that. If it turns out that everyone ends up dying before having a chance to wound, weapon strengths will just have to be turned down until we reach a stage where theres a nice balance between units being shot dead and being wounded.
We are also doing some nice stuff with hidden selections so that, for example, when a medic treats a unit it will appear as if his hands get covered in blood ;D
*cough* more animators *cough* (those will ultimately be the hold up)
This sounds like pretty much what I have been after from OFP since the beginning.
Now if someone could only fix the AI.... :)
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weapon strengths will just have to be turned down until we reach a stage where theres a nice balance between units being shot dead and being wounded.
I can tell you now Pathy, that I don't think we're going to find that balance, the best way to do it would be with improved armor ratings to simulate body armor, that way you would still be able to our weapons against BIS men.
*cough* more animators *cough* (those will ultimately be the hold up)
I know :) ;)
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I dont agree with you over the balance thing, it can be done with weapons. Either way we do it, either boosting units armour or reducing weapon strenghts, people are still going to have to change thier addons to match with us.
For the uninitiated, this is an issue of, we need weapons to do less damage to units, otherwise there is little point having a wound system, if all the units die without initiating it, because the guns are too powerful or the units are too weak. The solution is either to decrease weapon powers or to increase unit armour until a nice balance is reached.
Neither of these will affect Nightstalker MOD, as a total conversion, we will engineer the thing to work for us.
But for other people who want to use it elsewhere (for sure a version will be released for use in general OFP, as well as for other mods), they will STILL have to edit either their units armour or weapons power. Of course it wont be as hard for you as it is for us, as we will issue advice on what we found to be the best balance, so you wont have to the testing.
The point is, which is easier, increasing units armour or decreasing weapons power? Probably increasing armour, i agree with Silent_64 there.
Anyway, we wont know until it is tested. Testing may reveal we do not even need to make changes, we can only tell at that later time.
And yes we need animators, i suppose we should be grateful we have 2 (silent_64 and maddog)
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I can tell you now Pathy, that I don't think we're going to find that balance, the best way to do it would be with improved armor ratings to simulate body armor, that way you would still be able to our weapons against BIS men.
BIS soldiers wear body armor in the newest version of the primary config ;) ;D . That ought to even things up a bit...
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Guys. It should be easy to just do the stuff with the EH hit or killed. Reduce the damage a bit on every unit untill you have got a nice balance. You don't have to fool around with addons config and stuff like that. The only problem is that this would 'cause a bit more lag but I think we can live with that. ;)
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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sounds like it could work a treat. And would make it more universal. Also consider though, unit addons are going to have to be "enabled" anyway, by the inclusion of the required hidden selections..... (unless you want us to skip it, which means youd loose out on shrapnel cuts on faces, blood on medics hands, ect...... ::))
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Of course that is nice but let's save that for the Nightstalker Mod itself instead. :) Makes it kinda special. :)
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Just throwing in my opinion again - seems kinda @ss-backwards to put out a new addon and state *everyone* else needs to adjust their addon to work correctly...and the end result is just eye candy - showing more gore for wounds. As you stated, the actual combat results won't change (wounded/killed ratios) so all we are talking about is gore effects and some added medic logic?
Again, just my opinion, but I really don't care for that in the first place. The "dead" in OFP are either truly dead or incapacitated and out of the fight...which is fine with me. Adding more gore to the already incapacitated (and gamewise now irrelevant) units just takes away cycles and framerates that I would prefer to spend on better AI or combat/logic related scripting, or not spend at all.
I think most of the weapons are pretty well balanced so far. The 5.56mm are taking two+ hits to incapacitate, which is right in line with the AARs coming out of Iraq. If anything, I think the JAM 7.62 and 7.62 sniper rounds are underpowered right now. I would certainly not use an addon that further weakens the weapons. After all, in real life most bad guys don't wear interceptor armor, and two 5.56mm hits are going to HURT....
What would be very realistic though somewhat taxing on cycles would be bleed-out for AI, similar to the human player bleedout in the Marine Assault Pack.
Again, tap a bad guy twice with a 5.56mm and he may not drop right away, but after ten minutes+ he won't be shooting straight, if he is even still standing by then. As many of my missions last over an hour, that would have a big effect.
Anyway, all IMHO. The great thing about addons is everyone is free to use or not use! :)
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Just throwing in my opinion again - seems kinda @ss-backwards to put out a new addon and state *everyone* else needs to adjust their addon to work correctly...and the end result is just eye candy - showing more gore for wounds. As you stated, the actual combat results won't change (wounded/killed ratios) so all we are talking about is gore effects and some added medic logic?
Again, just my opinion, but I really don't care for that in the first place. The "dead" in OFP are either truly dead or incapacitated and out of the fight...which is fine with me. Adding more gore to the already incapacitated (and gamewise now irrelevant) units just takes away cycles and framerates that I would prefer to spend on better AI or combat/logic related scripting, or not spend at all.
I think most of the weapons are pretty well balanced so far. The 5.56mm are taking two+ hits to incapacitate, which is right in line with the AARs coming out of Iraq. If anything, I think the JAM 7.62 and 7.62 sniper rounds are underpowered right now. I would certainly not use an addon that further weakens the weapons. After all, in real life most bad guys don't wear interceptor armor, and two 5.56mm hits are going to HURT....
What would be very realistic though somewhat taxing on cycles would be bleed-out for AI, similar to the human player bleedout in the Marine Assault Pack.
Again, tap a bad guy twice with a 5.56mm and he may not drop right away, but after ten minutes+ he won't be shooting straight, if he is even still standing by then. As many of my missions last over an hour, that would have a big effect.
Anyway, all IMHO. The great thing about addons is everyone is free to use or not use! :)
"Just" eye candy, the outcome of a battle can be changed if you just have TWO more men able to run and shoot straight, also it isn't "just" going to be eye candy, then, why do it, it's going to add a level of realism that currently isn't there.
I know it's just a game but imagine this: You and your buddies are out to destroy an enemy base, you can see the searchlights off in the distance, you and your buddy advance slowly. You're now 20 m from a week point in their defense, all of the sudden you hear the sound of a bullet hitting flesh, a blood spatter and one of your buddies go down, laying there with his hands holding his throat while making grueling sounds. As the only one with enough medical training to make a difference you hear another shot, another one of your buddies go down he's holding himself to the leg.
Now it's up to you to decide WHO to treat and how, is it better to treat the bloke with the leg wound so that he can fight again, or are you going to try and save your heavily injured buddy with the throat wound, and how to treat them, apply a field dressing? Apply pressure? Decisions decisions.
I don't think that it can ever be explained the level of detail that we've planed for this so I'm not even going to try.
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Well, if a guy holds his hands at the throat or the leg you can see where he's shot. And you should add some drop [] effects with blood (especially the throat thing) and then you can see where the blood comes from. It's a bit extreme to say that everyone have to change their addons. It will maybe not work as good as in the Nightstalker Mod itself but it would work. :)
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Its no more arse-backward than JAM....and its the same as JAM, if you dont want to participate in it, dont.
But anyone that wants to participate in it will have to add the neccessary hidden selections to thier units. Hidden selections arent exactly hard to do, so, maybe its something that the next releases of units could incorporate, just as new weapons after JAM was released encorporated JAM.
Unless of course, you dont want the nice touches?
But im sorry mate, it might be your opinion, but there is no other logical way that things like hidden selections work. As for a waste of CPU, that is again up to you. You also dont seem to get the point of reducing weapon power. If youd read the posts, youd have noticed a) that this will only happen after we test it, and need to find a better balance (so it might not happen at all) and b) you think that reducing weapon power is going to reduce deaths? Depends how good a medic you are.
Oh and if its all window dressing, i guess you dont like ECP either..... :o
I assure you this is a whole lot more than window dressing. As Silent_64 described, its adding a WHOLE dimension to the game, finally playing as medic will be worthwhile, the choices you make the balance between life and death. And plus it limits the really annoying "one flick of a medics wrist and your right as rain" system that operates with BIS medics.
Anyhow, yeh its no more extreme than JAM, but if public opinion comes across that they'd prefer not to have to have units enabled, we will oblige. After all we aim to please. ::)
Oh and, yeh, silent 64's final line is right, it takes me about 1 hour to explain it to someone over MSN in full.... ;)
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Oh just had a thought. Perhaps its scaring you that you would end up with units with all these hidden selections not being used with the script....well they are hidden, so, unless the command goes out to show them..........
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Calm down, just a discussion. No need to get all defensive. :)
First - What you have described is NOT like JAM. JAM adds functionality (interoperability) only, and reduces developer time for future addons by providing common ammo types. Nothing gets "broken" by not adapting an addon to use JAM ammo. It was posted here twice that this new addon you are working on would most likely require existing weapons to be rebalanced to work with your addon...which is not the same as JAM.
One adds functionality, the other requires all preexisting weapons to be re-worked so that the new addon doesn't appear "broken". See the difference?
Of course I understand about the hidden selections, and yes that requires an updated config. That's not my point. The issue is requiring all existing weapons be rebalanced so the new addon performs correctly.
You stated the existing weapons need to be reduced so there aren't as many kills, so that your medic logic and gore effects have a chance to be shown.
Unless you are playing as a medic, the only effect on gameplay is added gore...eyecandy. (Unless you are actually changing wound/kill ratios as well - see below.)
As I consider the existing medic abilities to be a crutch for the crowd migrating from run-and-gun games, I don't ever use medics in the first place. So further reducing weapon lethality and making medics even more powerful has no interest *to me*.
One thing that is confusing is first it was stated that your addon effects would not change the wounded/kill ratio, but above you state that it may mean the difference of having two more guys alive in a mission? So which is it? Does it increase the ability of the medic to recover what would normally be incapacitating wounds, or is just gore effects and some added medic logic that, if chosen incorrectly, would actually increase the incapacitation rate?
Again, anything that further lowers the lethality of wounds *I* would consider a step backwards, and not reflective of real world experiences being reported as we type. But no biggie, it just means I won't use the addon. That's the joy of the system.
No need to go defensive or self-righteous, just expressing an opinion on a topic up for discussion.
Relax and have fun making your addon! :)
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I dont really have toime for this ATM, but no effect on gameplay? Cmon, one bad hit and your out of the game with this system.....i call that quite a change
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Pathy, I didn't mean to upset you but I mean what I was saying. Sure, people could change their addons if they want to but, seeing a guy having a fragment in the leg is nothing that is ABSOLUTLEY nessesary, even though it would add a lot. And I do not see what's the stuff about reducing weapon damage is about. Like I said before it could be done so more easy with a simple Eventhandler.
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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You havent upset me in any way mate.
Yes, and we are now going to use an event handler for damage. Which is why im so perplexed at this guy arguing like this addons is going to be Satans work........
Now this guy doesnt seem to read my posts at all, or if he does its in a way that suits him. No need to get defensive? Well when you are blatantly ignoring the facts, i cant have someone coming in here and seeing what you think is correct, when it isnt, and taking THAT as fact.
So lets get it straight.
WEAPONS WILL NOT BE CHANGED. If youd read all the post rather than selectively reading what you wanted to hear, youd know this
You stated the existing weapons need to be reduced so there aren't as many kills, so that your medic logic and gore effects have a chance to be shown.
.
Well yes, whats the point of making the addon if every shot kills? The last posts say where we came to a solution, we can do this all via script, no need to change every weapon. And the only discussion of weapons being changed was saying NIGHTSTALKER MOD WEAPONS MAY NEED TO BE CHANGED. Not every weapon in the community.
Now, changing units. Well, yes, if you want the hidden selections to work properly, Units WILL need to be enabled for that. No argument about that. But then i left an open question, "would you be prepared to do that?".
The Real Armstrong gave me an answer, that we should save those touches for the mod.
You on the other hand just moaned. And moaned. And moaned. If you actually have any suggestions to make, be it constructive critisism or just suggestions, they are welcome. But all ive seen you doing is telling us how crap this system is going to be in your opinion. Sorry, but thats not a debate i want here. Either help us or stop wasting mine and everyone elses time.
This is not the place for that discussion.
Next, you are absolutely convinced this is eye candy.
Unless you are playing as a medic, the only effect on gameplay is added gore...eyecandy. (Unless you are actually changing wound/kill ratios as well - see below.)
Tell me, how the hell is adding another level to the gameplay "eye candy". This system is designed to bring the realism of warfare closer than ever before.
Again, anything that further lowers the lethality of wounds *I* would consider a step backwards, and not reflective of real world experiences being reported as we type. But no biggie, it just means I won't use the addon. That's the joy of the system.
Again you obviously havent read the system. Its designed to increase realism. In real life most people dont just keel over and die. Some get shot and bleed to death, some die instantly, but there are also usually many more critically wounded than dead.
Are you trying to tell me a system that replaces medics ability to instantly and miraculously heal someone at deaths door is LESS realistic? Mate, actually bother to read how the system will work (see page one, last post)
because I dont think you understand also why weapons must be reduced (and anyway, we wont know if we DO need to reduce damage until we actually test it). Its not about reducing lethality. Its about reflecting the real life situation. In real life, people dont die instantly from 2 shots to the leg. Reducing weapon lethality (via scripts may i add, before you blow a gasket) means that in OFP they wont either. It merely allows us to execute a script that more closely mimics real life, that is, say, the guy could end up with Femoral bleeding and die within a minute. Infact, we could reduce weapon power to almost nothing and still run an accurate real life simulation. But that seems way over your head.......
Infact reading back what you say, i dont think you even realise this is basically an advanced bleed out script with added effects...
If you dont like the addon, dont download it, but i dont want you in this thread spamming it up with unhelpful comments. To that end, i will not argue with you any further, so either say something actually helpful, even if it is critisism, or say nothing at all please.
And this isnt really a place for discussion over the merits of it, unless im mistaken i thought it was a place for discussing the script itself.......
-
Again, relax and have fun making your mod.
I think I've sensed an age gap here, so I won't bother replying to your points. When you are a little less tense, go back and read this thread in whole sometime, and hopefully you will be able to understand it better.
BTW - putting words into someone else's mouth is a really bad way to get your point across. But you'll figure that out in time too.
Enjoy your game. :)
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I am not tense mate, and you show your immaturity by trying to make it personal (which is ironic given the "age gap" comments intent).
I stand by everything ive said, YOU my freind need to a)start reading posts and getting your facts straight b) start contributing to threads. Instead of just coming in and saying, "in my opinion, this addon will be a waste of time (ie crap)".
That is NOT a helpful comment. Incase you didnt realise, this is a thread for discussing the script. Not for OFP.INFO comment board style spamming of addons.
IE, that means, make a comment that is helpful or not at all. Im quite glad you havent bothered replying to my points, mainly because i asked you not to. But this is not a discussion on how crap this addon is. Its for constructive talk.
Keep it constructive please.
PS, oi how bloody cheeky is this ;D
go back and read this thread in whole sometime, and hopefully you will be able to understand it better.
Ive just been telling YOU to go back and read the whole thread. And given the number of mistakes you made in your argument i think i have grounds to say that (ie, thinking that weapons would have to be modified when we dismissed that issue before your post, the fact that you are convinced this is just eyecandy despite an indepth explanation of what it would actually do.....ect)
Anyway, yeh, bloody cheeky considering we are talking about MY concept (the idea of this script was mine, even if i cant script for cookies... ::) ), and you are telling me that i dont understand it. Mate, i think i understand the issues surrounding my brainchild.
Now go off and play.
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If I might interject a little here.
Whilst Kammak has made it plain that he isn't really overwhelmed by this idea, he has not been overly hostile to it and has been adding to this discussion.
You see I have read the whole thread so far.
Kammak has not been hostile to my mind, which cannot be said for some others.
If useful and constructive only means agreeing with what is being said then I have my ideas all wrong.
I always thought that negative comments also constituted constructive criticism.
Just because someone does not see things the same way others do, does not mean they are being hostile.
Totally of topic.......but what the heck........everyone else is doing it.
Planck
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And attempting to get back on topic.
Ok so,
Nightstalker Version
-area specific wound types each with own anims, sounds, effects, and bleed out rates.
-Hidden selections used for some FX, eg, blood on medics hands, scratches on face.....
-Medical treatments for each wound type each with its own anims, sounds ect....
-Each soldier has the ability to apply pressure to a wound and slow damage done. But not to heal the wound.
-Medic has ability to heal wounds, through a custom medic menu. Selection of the wrong treatment will not be good for the pateint ;D .
-Treatments carry a risk factor depending on how complicated the procedure is, the skill of the medic, ect
-Successful treatments leads to one of 3 things, a gradual deteriation of the patients condition, stabalisation, or slow improvement, depending on the seriousness of the wound.
Required: hidden selections on the units. The scripts, sounds and anims......Nothing else.
Public version. Same, except for removes the hidden selections, meaning only the addon is needed.
Sound good? ::)
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Planck mate, there is a difference between him saying "nah that wouldnt work very well, do it like this" (thats called constructive critisism, example, The Real Armstrong suggesting using an event handler to change damage) and saying "thats gonna be total crap, im not downloading it" (his approach, example, saying that changing every gun in the game is total wank and not offering a solution).
Anyway, i dont want a discussion on this, i want a discussion on the script
Oh one more thing, this is what perplexes me and makes me wonder just how far he reads the thread
One moment he says:
Again, tap a bad guy twice with a 5.56mm and he may not drop right away, but after ten minutes+ he won't be shooting straight, if he is even still standing by then. As many of my missions last over an hour, that would have a big effect.
Which is basically what our system will do. The next minute hes saying that our system has no real effect and is totally pointless. That is why i think he hasnt read the thread well enough to realise exactly what this script is.....
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What kind of procedures are included? Blow up pants for pressure, ace bandages, curlex, clamping arteries, needles, IVs, morphine, and etc....
And should all these options be avaiviable, a new menu should be made. I don't want to going down the action menu between reload M16 and reload needle...
::)
And some ppl shouldn't take any of this crap personally, its a forum for talk on a realism script to make medics and injuries more lifelike. I know some ppl want to come and smooth over disputes but let moderators or themselves solve it. Lets stick to the topic and let the ppl fight it out. Don't you like to watch? :tomato:
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*cough*
/me quietly walks into the thread and leans his 'KEEP IT CIVIL, GODDAMMNIT!' stick in the corner
::) ;)
-
What kind of procedures are included? Blow up pants for pressure, ace bandages, curlex, clamping arteries, needles, IVs, morphine, and etc....
And should all these options be avaiviable, a new menu should be made. I don't want to going down the action menu between reload M16 and reload needle...
::)
And some ppl shouldn't take any of this crap personally, its a forum for talk on a realism script to make medics and injuries more lifelike. I know some ppl want to come and smooth over disputes but let moderators or themselves solve it. Lets stick to the topic and let the ppl fight it out. Don't you like to watch? :tomato:
No i want to talk about our wounding system. ::)
Definately a new menu
-Medic has ability to heal wounds, through a custom medic menu. Selection of the wrong treatment will not be good for the
Ron_McAsskick, the scripter, has alot of experience of custom menu's from making Vietnam CTI maps. So we will end up with a nice fancy custom menu, maybe in the design of a medpack or something. Either way, having 20-30 options in the existing menu is something we are definately not going to do ::)
The procedures will be the correct one for each wound, applying pressure dressings, inserting one of those lung valves, holding thier hand until they die ;D ect, i cant really tell you all of them, because im no expert, but we have Huey from PUKF advising us, he is an ex-British Army medic.....
As soon as i know more i will tell you ::) luckily the script isnt too hard to add things to, so we can update as we learn more.
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Alright a new menu thats good.
I should have knew you guys had an expert.
Medic Menu:
IV bag
Bandage
Pressure
Super healing medicine!
Marujana
Just kidding
Sounds great! :thumbsup:
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Dont forget tampax and condoms......
....apparently huey carried some round in his medbag because tampax is great for bleeding wounds, and condoms seal wounds ;D
some people might get the wrong idea if we were to put an "attach condom" option in though....
-
The alternative to holding the guys hand while he dies... :-X
-
Hold hand? I would've refused that. If I knew I were dying I would say I rather took a quick, clean bullet to the head than maybe 10 mins of suffering.
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Thats better than the way Roachkiller was implying ;D ;)
There are some wounds we wont have medical treatments for, obviously. The only thing you can do if a guy takes a hit in the throat IS hold his hand (or whack a condom on if your Roach ;D ) until he dies, dose him up with morphine or something.
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Hey armstrong isn't that euthanasia(helping with suicide)?
I'd prefer the bullet, compared to my earlier comment aahem ahem.
:hmm:
Wouldn't want to end up like that guy in Saving Private Ryan. He and anoter American were in the house and thought a german was behind the wall, they shoot up wall and the Geramn burst in through the door and putting a quick bullet in the guys throat. He rolls around while the German and American fight with the knife. Not my favorite scene me being American and all... :'( ::)
Since you'd be squirming and all that why would you want someone holding your hand? I'm writhing in pain stupid medic pump me up with morphine! :help:
-
That scene was the inspiration for the animation (and sounds) that go with that wound type ;)
BTW, we will need "voice actors", ie, people good at screaming ect...... ;D
-
I'm sure my friends parents wouldn't want me to be screaming at the top of my lungs as if I was dying in their house, what would the neighbors think? :D
I don't know how to upload voices and stuff yet so I'm not going to try. ::)
OT: I jus wanted to jump into the scene and pop that German before the american got the knife into the chest, ouch.... :P
On topic: Are you going to mess with hide bodies or anything? When a black op with your script, it sounds like the guards I ice are going to do a hell a lotta of screaming and bleeding. Are silenced weapons or enemy awareness going to be factored into how the wounds are done/ acted?
And is their blood going to be spurting onto my screen and sliding off, like it really gets on your face and drips off? (You'd know what I mean if you play Metal Gear solid 2 Sons o liberty, kill a bug up close and bug insides slide down your face, seagull craps on your face it slides down, or blood from enemy guards.) It'd add to the medics realism, nothing like getting all bloodied up! :o
-
Yes it will mess with the guards you ice, more incentive for you to make a clean kill! (headshot!) I mean, if you shoot a guard in the leg he is probably gonna scream his ass off, thats why your gonna need to take him down silently......
Blood drops on your screen is possible, having them sliding off.....i dont think is possible......
A correction on that would be welcome ::)
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BTW, how are you going to solve the thing where you've been hit? As far as I know, OFP don't have a hitbox for throat...
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Combination of random chance and damage done. If you have a small amount of damage done to the head, for example, its going to be high probability that you have got just scratched by shrapnel or something......
Throat shot will be relatively rare.......
Unfortunately its very very hard to actually locate where a shot hits using anything else. what we realistically can do is detect whether the shot is on the left or right of the unit, this would help us get some better balance to it......
We are investigating making our own named selections for damage, but......that gets back into "editing the unit" territory........ ::)
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A head shot is still a head shot. :gunman: The guy will go down clean and easy and you'll have the satifaction of seeing his "third eye". The throat shot is an added bonus. After exchanging fire for twenty minutes, it felt good to through the grenade and watch the shrapenel hit his throat and see him go down squirming. You think poor bastard, well that east not present trigger is complete now whoopee! :)
What should happen if a guy gets one in the groin or feet is he automatically goingto drop? I know I've shot dudes in the foot and they don't go down and I've hit'um down low and nothing... >:(
I'd be on the ground in a sec! ;D
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Hit him in the leg, he goes down clutching at it, screaming for the medic, if its a flesh wound he will make alot of noise, if its the femoral artery he will make some noise but bleed to death within minutes....... ;D
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I was thinking about what you said about the medic stuff, taking the right treatment for the right wound. What about a sequel to this script and make a MASH mod out of it? Could be fun, especially if you have the breast spreader tool. ;D .
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Breast spreader? :hmm:
Are the sounds a dude makes gonna be different for the wound type? A flesh wound = AHHHH! high pitched yelling, OHH MY GAWD!
Femoral artery= ARGH, Son of a bitch = 5 minutes later: Bye guys give this to Sheila for me.... argh
head shot= PFFFut drip drip drip thud
And bleeding that sounds like a river in a ways. drip, sprinkle, splash
Damn this is going to be gory.... :tomato:
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Of course, each wound type shall be voice acted ;D
M*A*S*H mod lol. I never watched M*A*S*H so, i dont really know lol.
But its gonna be open source so do what you like with it.... ::)
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Hmm I edited son of whine to son of a b$$$$ but ...... ::)
You've never seen MASH! :o
Your missing out man.
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I was not meaning the M*A*S*H, I was meaning the MASH. A realistic mod based on MASH happenings, not M*A*S*H happenings, even though that would be cool as well. :)
And never watched M*A*S*H? I know most dudes never seen the movie but the series? Where are you from? The South Pole? Mars? Copenhagen?
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
-
England.
Anyway, when its open source, do what you like.
Sorry there isnt much new to post about the script. :-\
I mean.....until its done there is nothing new to add.....unless we hit a problem or someone comes up with new questions or ideas...... ::)
-
Howz the script comming along?
How long till a beta? :)
BTW, the BLB UK troops (Beta section) has really good selections (Like front, back, face, groin, finger etc :P) could something like the be done to existing units?
- Ben
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Its going ok but can you say "exams"? :(
The trouble with those selections is, it requires EVERY unit to have those, we have already been into the "editing units to make them compatable" debate and turned up a big "No" :afro:
-
Just as a notice, but I think you guys are forgetting the most important part of the idea:
Bleeding Effects!
Like a bullet would slash your artery open and blood comes out of the slashed artery like a fountain ;D...
Then you scream:
"AHHH!! IM BLEEDING!!..... MEDIC!!!"
During the time the medic is running through rains of steel and heat, you push your hand on the wound, seeing the blood gushing out to all directions. And of course you scream again... but that depends, cuz at a certain moment the brains of this injured dude produce some kind of a hormone, I dont know what it is called, but somehow the dude stops feeling pain cuz of the ultra high concentrations of the hormone in his brains and blood streams.
Anyway, this whole concept sounds very interesting, looking forward to any kind of progress ;)
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I wouldnt worry, each wound has its own bleeding effect!
-
Heheh
"What do you do if someone bursts an artery?"
"Shove him in a field and call him a fountain"
::)
Heheheh :P
Anyway, how long till beta? :)
- Ben
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The UKF guys are rubbing off on me, so i will go for standard issue UKF response number 5 (the politest of the lot): When its done. ;D
Nah seriously, scripter and both animators have exams, so....its only fair those get thier attention, huh? Good news is we now have another animator, albiet a new one, but, im sure he will cope....his 1st task is to create a "shot in the right leg" anim....nice and fun for him. ::)
That brings our animation team up to 3, an ideal size would be about 5......yes i know, animators are in short supply and we are lucky to have 3! :o
So in summary.....its a big project, probably going to take a few months, anims being the time consuming factor.
-
Big thread...... ::)
Anyways those animators work for you! Make them work, 20 out of 24 hours of the day if needed. Surely OFP is more important than exams? :D :tomato:
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Hahaha :P
Anyway, I can use OFPAnim, if your interested, but I'm not that good at it (Am okay at static anims, but never really tried much for moving ones)
So if you want to bring the number up from 3 to 3.5, MSN me (Or email etc) ;)
- Ben
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Sure, every little helps huh?
Plus you can learn as you go..... :)
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Yeah, sure :D
I'll try.. hmm.. A hit in the throat thing...?
Like in Saving Private Ryan (That I watched again last night :P), when the german guy and, um, an american are fighting near the end (With the knife)
And the guy gets shot though the throat
Shouldn't be to hard.. I guess ::)
Gotta learn somehow :P
- Ben
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That ones already done :)
But if you want to learn by it anyway...... ;)
-
Any news from this "Realism Script - More Wounds, Less Death!" script? It sound good, you know. ;)
-
Well the good news is we now have 4 (or is it 5....Onix, are you in?) animators working on it, so, things are moving along well.
Damn got to go, talk more later 8)
Ok more time, yeh we have more animators! Wooo! So the anims wont take so long to get together, ermm scripter has just gone through the EXAM ZONE *twilight zone music plays*, so a slight delay there, but......given the time its going to take for the scripts compared to the anims, its not really a worry. :)
Moving faster than expected, hope to have something to actually play with soon :)
-
4 and a half :P
I'm in ;)
- ben
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hey folks
I am the scripter for this little project so i guess i should apologise for not checking here sooner. As pathy said i have just been through my uni exams so apologies for the lack of updates. I will be assembling a beta as soon as the wound array application part of the script is written (required to keep track of wounds suffered, bleed rates etc) I have also been looking into the use of functions that might help the lag issue that might result from the complexity of the script. Can anyone help me with a small problem, I have to make an array of units so that i can try and find the place in a set of synchronous arrays where that units wound info is held. I can't seem to get the array to store the unit and find him again by searching the array.
Any ideas, ask if it needs clarification or MSN me Feliix1956@hotmail.com
Ron
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I can't help, but I'm sure someone can :P
Anyway, good to hear a beta's on the way
I'll start work on that anim after I get bored with Hidden And Dangerous 2 :P
- Ben
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right i read about using the format command to pass additional info through event handlers. I hope the guy who talked about it in the functions help sees this and elaborates a little, i'm still a wee bit confused how this woks. enlighten me pleeease, driving me up the wall.
:)
Ron
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Maybe if we knew the name of the guy who talked about them we could
kidnapp him ask him about it :)
-
i think it was General Barren from the ECP team
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Hmm, i don't know but, what about this :
Give him hit 2 event handlers (Use a foreach thislist thing, and a huge trigger),
one that sets unitname = name this (Or something)
And one that calls the script that uses unitname
Could be a bit long with lots of varables to be passed, though :(
What is it that has to be passed, anyway?
- Ben
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i think the idea is to cut all that down, and virtually eliminate lag :)
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Ah right ::)
Whats the link to the function help thing, and I'll see if I can understand....*Laughs*
:P
Hows everything comming on, btw?
- Ben
-
i think we can fairly say pretty good... ;)
-
Passing more info to eventhandlers:
http://www.ofpec.com/yabbse/index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=17724;start=0
After you have read that, read below:
The big problem with using this method, though, is that you can't easily pass a unit to the EH; only numbers and strings. You could pass a variable name to the EH though, and then using this trick again in the script, you could extract the value of the variable to be used in your script.
Example:
_varName = _this select 5
; (_varName is a STRING, that is the same as the name of a global variable you have)
call format["_unit = %1", _varName]
; now _unit is an OBJECT; the same object that was in the global variable
But if you have an un-changing array with all the units on the map in it, then you could pass an index pointing to the unit in the array, instead of the unit itself.
---------------------------------------------------------
Can anyone help me with a small problem, I have to make an array of units so that i can try and find the place in a set of synchronous arrays where that units wound info is held. I can't seem to get the array to store the unit and find him again by searching the array.
Hmm... not sure if I'm getting you correctly, but would this work?
Make an array of arrays, like so:
GlobalArray = [ [unitA, info1, info2, info3], [unitB, info1, info2, info3] ]
Now, to find the unit and his associated info, you just do a little loop through the array in a function like so:
_unit = _this select 0
_i = 0
#loop
? (GlobalArray select _i) select 0 == _unit : _returnArray = GlobalArray select _i; goto "end"
_i = _i + 1
goto "loop"
#end
_returnArray
Actually, this is in script syntax, but it could easily be converted into a function. I just know scripts better than functions off the top of my head.
Let me know if that isn't what you are talking about. Hope that helps ya'll. :)
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thanks thats just what i needed, the rest should be easy.
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Night Stalker Mod Team, Report Status.
Damn, Night Stalker Mod Team, Is Down
:D
So what's happening? You still need animators? How long for a beta? I can't wait much longer. :D
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
-
Wha??
The site or the mod??
Anyway, passing variables in eventhandlers... Simple ::)
Just found this out.. Not sure if it correct though..
this addeventhandler ["hit",{[this,nextthing] exec "something.sqs"}]
I've tested it, and it seems to work okay ???
If it is right, I'm confused why no one else noticed ::)
Anyway, where was it.. Oh, I agree with Armsty.. I CAN'T WAIT ANY LONGER!!
:P
What else y'ghotta do?
:)
- Ben
-
Ben aren't you a part of the team? Or an animator orb something?
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Oh yeah.... ::)
I haven't really started out yet..
So, now, basicly, no..
But I've pretty much confirmed the ["hit",{[guy1,guy2] exec "script.sqs"] thing works :D
I ask Pathy on MSN next time I see him..
*Frowns*
:P
Adios
- Ben
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Sorry, most of the team have had exams, and i dont think its fair to ask the team, or myself, to put our futures on the line for a script, so....i havent asked..... ;)
It will happen, just....wait a few more days and all exams will be over ::)
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Its June, you should be outta school ppl! :o ::)
Longest exams in the world, mine are over but, no rush.
If you could get it out before OFP2 that'd be nice. I dunno if OFP1 will even be played for a while when I obtain OFP2. :P
-
Last exams 29th. Then i get drunk to celebrate (so no work done) and then i go on my hols for 2 weeks ;D
Should be out WAY before OFP2
-
*Ahem*
Anything happening yet?
:P
- Ben
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Yeah what is happening with this script?
Is it still alive?
-
Is it still alive?
Or rolling around screaming for a medic.. Wheres the medic!
:P
- Ben
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I just had to do this...
The 100 post in this thread!! ;D ;D
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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I don't know much about the actual script but Pathy is currently on holiday untill the 17th.
-
Maybe we will get to see something like this in OFP2?
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I just had to do this...
The 100 post in this thread!! ;D ;D
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
How'd you work that out? ::)
He's on holiday.. That might explain it.. :P
In OFP2, prob but why wait? :P
- Ben
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Seems that its taking longer than expected, but as long as they finish it...
I'm rather content with ECP right now. I just shot two AI with my two remaining shots and watched them bleed out in front of me. :P I'm not sure if ECP affected them or the fact that the abrams came by a few minutes later and wiped them out, I'm not sure. But I'd love new animations for wounds and such. ;D
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Heheh
Hmm, just to pass the time til Pathy gets back..
Is Ragdoll physics (Or simulated, at least), possible in OFP?
:D
- Ben
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I'm not an addon guru, but, no. At least I don't think so.
You can simulate 100 different death moves for every angle and position you can be shot in, but ragdoll physics generates completley new ones every time.
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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You can simulate 100 different death moves for every angle and position you can be shot in
Thus the Simulated Rag Doll effects :P
Hmm, very much doubt it, but mod the EXE (Ha) to incorporate it? the DXDLL managed to mod the graphics a lot, so why not the physics :)
- Ben
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Guess whos back....back again....
heh you guys are jumpy....a quiet spell and you think its dead.....ive only just got back so i dont know the situation myself.....but i can say, ragdoll physics is NOT something we are going to do.....ermmm groundbreaking, but we need to also do other things to get the mod out the door.....islands, units, ect......and with resources being so thin on the ground, there is no chance of it happening :(
I hate ragdoll anyway........ :P
Anyway, dont panic.....at least until i start panicking.....
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So how is the job proceeding?
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Iain has been away from OFP for a few weeks so progress hasnt been speedy, while i currently have no animators working on the anims :'( One got a job, one got pissed off with OFP and left the game, and one ive got doing other jobs that are more important mod-wise.
However, Iain now says he understands all the functions and can complete the script with no problems, at the moment we have a bare-bones script. I have said to Iain, we may as well use Fraps to do a little demo video of what we have so far, and maybe this will attract more animators to us. Animators are the only problem we have really. :(
If you know an animator, send him to me :-\
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Glad to hear it's not dead or anything..
I'll ask around for animators :-\
- Ben
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Have you tried contacting Wilco or Hunter or teaCup? All of them know how, maybe they could help you out.
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Well i had Rouge on my team (he was the one who got pissed off (i'm told it was with all the attention Wilco and Hunter were getting, despite Rouge apparently being the better animator of the 3) and left OFP), and there is no love lost between those guys, so...while Rouge was around i never tried them. Having said that, i asked Wilco a long time ago (before this topic was ever here in this forum) and he said he was too busy. In my experience he makes promises of help and then backs out on them.......
Have never spoken to Teacup or Hunter. Worth a shot maybe
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I would help you guys, but I know only the basic commands. :-\
I have only one advice:
Do not make the script activation too complicated. People like me just cant stand that 1km long text that you must write to Init/Act field. 8)
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To get back on the *original* topic I think it could be done by making the units tougher. then using event handlers to detect when they have been hit. If a unit is injured then he is set as a captive so the enemy will not continue to target him. He could stay captive for a period of time then be allowed to be targeted again or after he has recived medical attention. this way you would have plenty of injured units.
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Pathy's team has everything pretty much figured out (prove me wrong :D ;) :P), so its just a question of getting the animations and other jobs done. :P
We already kinda killed this topic, hell there are 8 pages on it! ;D ::)
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Nah, only 6 pages :P
Anyway, from what Pathys told me on msn, most of the scripting is in hand.. They just really need animators :(
- Ben
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Noobs. 3 pages for me. 50 threads a page, 50 posts a thread. :P
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Well that was obvious to other people :hmm:
:p
Anyway, enought with OT stuff :beat:
- Ben
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ONIX has it right, we have most of the scripting in hand, but animators is another matter :(
Dont make Pathy cry :'( Learn to animate today! ;D
Oh and 8 pages ;)
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Dont make Pathy cry :'( Learn to animate today! ;D
Heheheheh :P
Put that in your sig aswell ;)
How much of the scripting as acctualy done, btw?
- Ben
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As i understand it, the bare bones are there, its just missing animations and fancy blood FX (obviously, you cant have a spray of blood coming from a wound until you have the anim there, otherwise its probably going to be in the wrong place :P)
Oh and sound. Need some people to scream like theyve been shot into thier mics and send me the files ;D
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OK, I can scream. Got a CoD clan here with 30 people loaded up with mices and ready. I need to know the length of the scream. :P
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Haha alright, just get everyone to imagine theyve been shot in a specific body part (legs, arms, chest, gut, thoat (gurgle gurgle) hands, ect) and let rip ;D
Be creative.....i guess if that many people record as many as they feel like, i can take the pick of the litter.
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Ohh I wanna hear this :P
;D
Remeber that if you should straight into a mic, it will hiss a lot..
So dont have the mic to close :P
Hows stuff on the animator front?
- Ben
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Crap :) ;)
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Oh :o
:'(
- Ben
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So are you guys going to be altering the weapons damage for this thing or not? I think accuracy should be reduced, mainly because the AI have the remarkable ability to pluck your eyeballs out of your skull at about a kilometers range, and also it increases the need for surpressive fire and getting close enough to the enemy to deliver the killing blow. Also it encourages ammo conservation, and increases the need for Artillery, air support, tanks etc. Reducing the weapons damage for certain areas should be reduced I think, because is it possible to lower the damage so much that you cant die from a shot to the head? ???
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It is very clearly in the thread:
a) Weapon damage will be reduced by scripts, not config editing
b) Even though the damage is reduced you are still incapitated by a shot in the leg.
c) The script has nothing to do with supressing fire and/or less accuracy. Look for other mods on that.
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Cool, i just wanted to clarify
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No problem. :) Try using JAM2 's HD weapons, they are High Dispersion (duh) so you get muchos extended firefights......
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Theres also a script (In the beta testing forum bit, I think) that does that
Works pretty well ;)
Hows all the scripts for the stuff?
- Ben
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Status report maybe? ;)
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Nightstalker are busy.
Want a hint?
http://www.galwar.co.uk/Nightstalker/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=33
US SF pack.
But please dont go OT in here if you like it, there is a BI forums thread in Addons discussion, or our temporary forum (http://www.galwar.co.uk/Nightstalker/forum), or you could just start a thread here if you want to discuss what we are doing on other fronts.
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any progress?
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I'm doing this. Seriously. It would be so bloody cool. I got all the heavy stuff laid out. I know I can do it.
I need at least one animator. And a lot of voice actors. I'd love some russian actors too.
Pathy, any files from the old project are very, very welcomed.
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Sounds cool. Any progress updates. Things seemed to have died down a little.
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I've started to plan up the project. I need animators and voice actors. I got myself an addon maker though. :)
A couple of planned features:
* Realistic Injuries based on the place where the bullet entered the body.
* MEDEVAC/CASEVAC addons and scripts
* Loads of voices all from screaming in agony to yelling 'grenade!'.
* Everything can be customized. Swearing can be removed if you like. Injuries can have different effects. MEDEVAC/CASEVAC can be called in just when the mission maker wants. Everything.
* Letting addon and mod makers make their vehicle compatible to the MEDEVAC/CASEVAC system.
* Much, much more.
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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HI THERE ;D
its fantastic that somebody took over this job. Just a couple questions:
# how about medics then? are they still able to autoheal thmself??
they should not, i think... of course people don have to use them, i dont!
#what about the BAS deltas and rangers, they have medic abilities??
the addon pack is one of the best iÂ've seen, and iÂ'm using them a lot, but this miraculous selfhealing really buggs.. WHATTA F IS THAT.... really guys...
In most armys, every combat soldier has a little first aid kit in their gear, but
i cant imagine a single person, who could be able to run around fast after being hit anywhere else than arms, no matter how much bandages are put around the wound. Even the "hands hit" is very dangerous if you dont stay still after being hit...you know... walking i can just about accept, not running with a hole in your leg!!!
Not even the israel specops who attach drains in their vains in every limb with ducktape, and carry 1 or 2 bags of plasma in the back of their shoulders + morphine injectors... (would be a great addon btw,)
Ofcourse in combat situations its not healthy to sit still on your arse if somebody is firing at your position. any way, getting wounded will seriously compromise and effect your abilities to move and complete your mission. situation changes to surving and getting the hellouttathere!!
If you are a group leader and one of your men gets hit, the same thing there. it will always, more or less affect the whole groups ability to move.
the victim needs help and cover depending how badly he is injured. if the injury is bad it will take a third man to move the victim to cover. one man cant carry a nother for long distances.
"the firemans carry" , or "draging a dude from his shoulder/neck" - animation + script / function would be fantastic for SHORT distances only, and w. slow speed !! = about 50 m ?? then must stop and rest awhile before able to continue. the terrain effects carrying too..
"2 guys carrying one" or "2 guys dragging/towing a guy" - animation would be also great... hmm there is a towing script there already, but its for vehicles. Well maby you can get something out of it?
REMEMBER A FACT: A soldier with full battle gear incl. kevlar wests, weights easily over 100 kg:s!!! AND the person who is carrying him has his own gear too. you cannot leave your weapon and wests either, in any situation, especially when in combat.
And you cant just leave your wounded behind. ItÂ's only in the most extreme situation that leader makes that call. That could only mean that the rest of your groups survival would be at serious risk. == attaking and wery close to the enemy
close combat doesnt usually take long, so if you can take the enemies out or get them running fast, then you have time to take care of the injured.
ANOTHER FACT: sometimes we people are quite durable when it comes to bad injuries. it usually takes quite long for a for ex. bleed to death, even when if the whole right arm was blown away, well... you know what i mean... Did you know that its better to get wounded when its cold weather??
forex: if you know about the Falkland war history and when the paratroopers fought one evening. After the fight they found serously wounded soldiers lying around ALIVE not before the next morning. it was cold but not too cold. that started a cinda deeper investication aroud the medical sience people about cold effects to slow down damages....
Ofcourse the cold can also easily kill you...bla...bla
Before the JAMHD / dispersion stuff came along, i can somehow understand the healing stuff, but nowdays its a joke!!
I send cheers and best wishes for everyone whos involved in this project.
its one of the most important realism factors missing from ofp.
i could even take part as an voice actor, if you could advice me how to produce acceptable voice files for you to use....
damn.. sorry guys, a lot of tex w. bad english.. sorry... got a little carried away there.. huh
best regards
:cheers: :gunman: :thumbsup: :wow: :moon: :
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Hey,
# how about medics then? are they still able to autoheal thmself??
No. :)
#what about the BAS deltas and rangers, they have medic abilities??
This depends on how the medic-auto-healing part of the script will be. I have several ideas on how it could look, and I will incorporate the one which works the best on official units as a priority.
In most armys, every combat soldier has a little first aid kit in their gear, but
i cant imagine a single person, who could be able to run around fast after being hit anywhere else than arms, no matter how much bandages are put around the wound. Even the "hands hit" is very dangerous if you dont stay still after being hit...you know... walking i can just about accept, not running with a hole in your leg!!!
Any serious wound (not like shots in your toe) will make you incapable of moving.
If you are a group leader and one of your men gets hit, the same thing there. it will always, more or less affect the whole groups ability to move.
the victim needs help and cover depending how badly he is injured. if the injury is bad it will take a third man to move the victim to cover. one man cant carry a nother for long distances.
"the firemans carry" , or "draging a dude from his shoulder/neck" - animation + script / function would be fantastic for SHORT distances only, and w. slow speed !! = about 50 m ?? then must stop and rest awhile before able to continue. the terrain effects carrying too..
The squad will never move friendly injured units. What they can do is to help them by stopping the bleeding, give them morphine, etc. All movement will be made by the CASEVAC/MEDEVAC guys, and they have a nice lil stretcher addon. :)
i could even take part as an voice actor, if you could advice me how to produce acceptable voice files for you to use....
Sure, sure. I'll contact you with more details when I've solved some stuff.
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
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Hmm I'm surprised that I've never noticed this thread before. Been wanting something like this for sometime. Being a sucker for 'Nam, this would go very well in my 'Nam missions. I did a bleeding script once, which gradually decreased the units healt if the injury was big. And using Snypir's tougher units script has been mentioned before, but I found it to be more usefull than some. :) It really made those 6 man SOG recon teams stand out when they were outnumbered, and the enemy was using HD weapons. More injueries, less death, but that together combined with the bleeding script did cause some grief, but I was n00b back then. :D
Anyways, what I ment to say was, that I think I have a medevac script on my HD. I found it sometime ago on my mates mission. I remember it being discussed here too once but I couldn't find the thread. I think it was before the forums were installed again. I can try to make it work and, if you want, send it your way. I've never tried it before and wont quarantee that it'll work, though. ;)
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yes yes cool ;D ;D i trust you dmakatra, i think you know what your doing :thumbsup:
just trying to give some pointers... ;D
please dont over shoot that notablemoving thing tough....under fire that i mean..
shock, adrenalin, pain and fear makes wonders sometimes.. Have you seen some archive documentarys forex. D-Day, thre is 1 clip about a dude on the omaha beach. Hes whole leg is blown apart from the thigh down, and hes draging him self with one hand, and with the other hand he is dragging the missing foot... 2 clip was about the paratrooppers, same thing there but the leg was just a piece of pudding, just still attached to his body when he crawled past the camera with speed...mkay
your idea obout the medivacs doing the job + animations is perfect.
i would really like to see what you can make the group do and behave BEFORE the medivacs can get there :o
AND what about if the LZ is too hot, not to mention ground to air defences
or even enemy air support ??? Base commanders wont send choppers if if the risk is too high, choppers can also turn around if they face too many holes trough the wind screen...
maby alternative transports, 5-tons, humvees, bradleys, m113s, boats, depending enemy numbers and distance.... bla bla...
AND what if the situation is so bad that its simply impossible to get medivac what so ever. And the group has to move it self to a safe zone, lest say more than 500 m or 1 KLICK before rescue efforts are possible...bla...bla...
That is what i mean with one man or two man carrying the wounded....bla...bla..
ONE more thin. If , you actually do this right, i mean really get this work. I can see that this might be one of the greatest ever made in ofp community. It could seriously change the whole concept for missionn making when it comes to "conditions" and "mission compleated" things...
It might even get few people very angry because their hard work with campaigns would need some serious re-editing...bla ..bla.. I salute you.
ok..ok i will stop now...he..he
:cheers: :gunman: :wave: :tomato: :P
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Anyways, what I ment to say was, that I think I have a medevac script on my HD. I found it sometime ago on my mates mission. I remember it being discussed here too once but I couldn't find the thread. I think it was before the forums were installed again. I can try to make it work and, if you want, send it your way. I've never tried it before and wont quarantee that it'll work, though. ;)
No, I'm fine thanks. Due to the nature of the scripts, incorporating an already done medevac script would just complicate things. I'd rather write my own code. :)
yes yes cool ;D ;D i trust you dmakatra, i think you know what your doing :thumbsup:
Great thing one of us does. ;D
your idea obout the medivacs doing the job + animations is perfect.
i would really like to see what you can make the group do and behave BEFORE the medivacs can get there
I still have a lot of ideas on things I want to include here. But medics aren't the only combat unit that knows first aid so you will most probably see regular units taking care of wounded, only medics do it better. :)
AND what about if the LZ is too hot, not to mention ground to air defences
or even enemy air support Base commanders wont send choppers if if the risk is too high, choppers can also turn around if they face too many holes trough the wind screen...
Don't worry, this have been taken care of already. Kinda hard to explain, but it involves one of my main goals; to make the most customizabled scripting mod on this earth. :)
maby alternative transports, 5-tons, humvees, bradleys, m113s, boats, depending enemy numbers and distance.... bla bla...
Taken care of already. :)
AND what if the situation is so bad that its simply impossible to get medivac what so ever. And the group has to move it self to a safe zone, lest say more than 500 m or 1 KLICK before rescue efforts are possible...bla...bla...
That is what i mean with one man or two man carrying the wounded....bla...bla..
Interesting idea... I might include that in later versions.
If , you actually do this right, i mean really get this work. I can see that this might be one of the greatest ever made in ofp community. It could seriously change the whole concept for missionn making when it comes to "conditions" and "mission compleated" things...
Yes, I've been planning to implent a rating thingy to the script as well.
I salute you.
No man, I'm a pacifist! Don't bleeding salute me! :P ;D
Thanks for your positive comments.
Make dmakatra (and Pathy) Happy - Learn How To Animate Today! :thumbsup:
:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat: